Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Questioner: You say you are the silent witness, and also you are beyond consciousness. Is there no contradiction in it? If you are beyond consciousness, what are you witnessing to? Maharaj: I am conscious and unconscious, both conscious and unconscious, neither conscious nor unconscious -- to all this I am witness -- but really there is no witness, because there is nothing to be a witness to. I am perfectly empty of all mental formations, void of mind -- yet fully aware. This I try to express by saying that I am beyond the mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Questioner: You say you are the silent witness, and also you are beyond > consciousness. Is there no contradiction in it? If you are beyond > consciousness, what are you witnessing to? > > Maharaj: I am conscious and unconscious, both conscious and > unconscious, neither conscious nor unconscious -- to all this I am > witness -- but really there is no witness, because there is nothing to > be a witness to. I am perfectly empty of all mental formations, void of > mind -- yet fully aware. This I try to express by saying that I am > beyond the mind. > thanks for that... and here's another: Q: There is the witnessed consciousness and there is the witnessing consciousness. Is the second the supreme? M: There are the two -- the person and the witness, the observer. When you see them as one, and go beyond, you are in the supreme state. It is not perceivable, because it is what makes perception possible. It is beyond being and not being. It is neither the mirror nor the image in the mirror. It is what is -- the timeless reality, unbelievably hard and solid. I Am That, Ch.13 Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Yes, " When the person and the witness, the observer are one " is the same as Krishnamurti said, " the observer is observed " , or as Wei Wu Wei wrote: " The object is the subject " . Werner Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Questioner: You say you are the silent witness, and also you are beyond > > consciousness. Is there no contradiction in it? If you are beyond > > consciousness, what are you witnessing to? > > > > Maharaj: I am conscious and unconscious, both conscious and > > unconscious, neither conscious nor unconscious -- to all this I am > > witness -- but really there is no witness, because there is nothing to > > be a witness to. I am perfectly empty of all mental formations, void of > > mind -- yet fully aware. This I try to express by saying that I am > > beyond the mind. > > > thanks for that... > > and here's another: > > Q: There is the witnessed consciousness and there is the witnessing > consciousness. Is the second the supreme? > M: There are the two -- the person and the witness, the observer. When > you see them as one, and go beyond, you are in the supreme state. It > is not perceivable, because it is what makes perception possible. It > is beyond being and not being. It is neither the mirror nor the image > in the mirror. It is what is -- the timeless reality, unbelievably > hard and solid. > > I Am That, Ch.13 > > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Questioner: You say you are the silent witness, and also you are beyond > > consciousness. Is there no contradiction in it? If you are beyond > > consciousness, what are you witnessing to? > > > > Maharaj: I am conscious and unconscious, both conscious and > > unconscious, neither conscious nor unconscious -- to all this I am > > witness -- but really there is no witness, because there is nothing to > > be a witness to. I am perfectly empty of all mental formations, void of > > mind -- yet fully aware. This I try to express by saying that I am > > beyond the mind. > > > thanks for that... > > and here's another: > > Q: There is the witnessed consciousness and there is the witnessing > consciousness. Is the second the supreme? > M: There are the two -- the person and the witness, the observer. When > you see them as one, and go beyond, you are in the supreme state. It > is not perceivable, because it is what makes perception possible. It > is beyond being and not being. It is neither the mirror nor the image > in the mirror. It is what is -- the timeless reality, unbelievably > hard and solid. > > I Am That, Ch.13 > > > Bill Hi Bill and Werner, " It is not perceivable, because it is what makes perception possible " yes....It is formless, infinite and changless too......that's the " witness " i try to write about and yes....if " all " melt into One....there is " timeless reality " ... but then also.....there are no more wor(l)ds......and " nothing to be understood " .....and also.... " deep peace " ...... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Marc, Why so much noise ? Why so much stilized words which just shall show that you do know, that you are wisdom incarnated ? Werner Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Hi Bill and Werner, > > " It is not perceivable, because it is what makes perception possible " > > yes....It is formless, infinite and changless too......that's > the " witness " i try to write about > > and yes....if " all " melt into One....there is " timeless reality " ... > > but then also.....there are no more wor(l)ds......and " nothing to be > understood " .....and also.... " deep peace " ...... > > Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > normally it's you....Werner....who cry hard....in here.... i wrote a message " the witness Is " ....and your " noise " is intime....to write a message " there is no Witness " ..... i'm sorry Werner.....you should ask yourself why this your loud Noise..... thats not my problem.....and will not be mine.....(you like to speak in a dual language....so, please Here it is) Marc > Marc, > > Why so much noise ? Why so much stilized words which just shall show > that you do know, that you are wisdom incarnated ? > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > Hi Bill and Werner, > > > > " It is not perceivable, because it is what makes perception > possible " > > > > yes....It is formless, infinite and changless too......that's > > the " witness " i try to write about > > > > and yes....if " all " melt into One....there is " timeless reality " ... > > > > but then also.....there are no more wor(l)ds......and " nothing to > be > > understood " .....and also.... " deep peace " ...... > > > > Marc > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Marc, You can eternally go on producing spiritual nonsense with impressive words but polishing coals won't create diamonds and perfumed shit will remanin shit. Werner Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > normally it's you....Werner....who cry hard....in here.... > > i wrote a message " the witness Is " ....and your " noise " is > intime....to write a message " there is no Witness " ..... > > i'm sorry Werner.....you should ask yourself why this your loud > Noise..... > > thats not my problem.....and will not be mine.....(you like to speak > in a dual language....so, please Here it is) > > Marc > > > > Marc, > > > > Why so much noise ? Why so much stilized words which just shall > show > > that you do know, that you are wisdom incarnated ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Bill and Werner, > > > > > > " It is not perceivable, because it is what makes perception > > possible " > > > > > > yes....It is formless, infinite and changless too......that's > > > the " witness " i try to write about > > > > > > and yes....if " all " melt into One....there is " timeless > reality " ... > > > > > > but then also.....there are no more wor(l)ds......and " nothing to > > be > > > understood " .....and also.... " deep peace " ...... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Marc, > > You can eternally go on producing spiritual nonsense with impressive > words but polishing coals won't create diamonds and perfumed shit > will remanin shit. > > Werner > > " the observer is the observed " .....i remind....written from the restless Werner..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Marc, > > > > You can eternally go on producing spiritual nonsense with impressive > > words but polishing coals won't create diamonds and perfumed shit > > will remanin shit. > > > > Werner > > > > > " the observer is the observed " .....i remind....written from the > restless Werner..... > children games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Marc, > > > > > > You can eternally go on producing spiritual nonsense with > impressive > > > words but polishing coals won't create diamonds and perfumed shit > > > will remanin shit. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > " the observer is the observed " .....i remind....written from the > > restless Werner..... > > > > children games! yes....very funny games.....in this world of shit.....lol > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Argh, this old game: > > When having got empty hands one starts throwing mirrors. > > Werner > yes, in the end this throwing mirrors is the action of the presumed witness. here it is, it has come to surface! just a childish game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Great, BW ! I wonder if Marc will see that ? If not then maybe I will go on pinning him til it got obvious. Werner Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Argh, this old game: > > > > When having got empty hands one starts throwing mirrors. > > > > Werner > > > > yes, in the end this throwing mirrors is the action of the presumed > witness. > here it is, it has come to surface! > just a childish game. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Always nice to find another of those rare souls familiar with Wei Wu Wei. Bill Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Yes, > > " When the person and the witness, the observer are one " is the same > as Krishnamurti said, " the observer is observed " , or as Wei Wu Wei > wrote: " The object is the subject " . > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Questioner: You say you are the silent witness, and also you are > beyond > > > consciousness. Is there no contradiction in it? If you are beyond > > > consciousness, what are you witnessing to? > > > > > > Maharaj: I am conscious and unconscious, both conscious and > > > unconscious, neither conscious nor unconscious -- to all this I > am > > > witness -- but really there is no witness, because there is > nothing to > > > be a witness to. I am perfectly empty of all mental formations, > void of > > > mind -- yet fully aware. This I try to express by saying that I > am > > > beyond the mind. > > > > > thanks for that... > > > > and here's another: > > > > Q: There is the witnessed consciousness and there is the witnessing > > consciousness. Is the second the supreme? > > M: There are the two -- the person and the witness, the observer. > When > > you see them as one, and go beyond, you are in the supreme state. It > > is not perceivable, because it is what makes perception possible. It > > is beyond being and not being. It is neither the mirror nor the > image > > in the mirror. It is what is -- the timeless reality, unbelievably > > hard and solid. > > > > I Am That, Ch.13 > > > > > > Bill > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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