The controller is the Controlled

[Guest guest]

In meditation, classical, ordinary, the much talked about, it may be a

lot of propaganda, and all the gurus who are propagating it, coining

money, they are always concerned with the controller and the

controlled. They have always said 'Control your thoughts,' - because

thereby you will end thought, or have only one thought. But we are

enquiring into who is the controller? You might say, 'He is the higher

self', 'He is the witness.' 'He is something which is not thought.' But

the controller is part of thought. Right? Obviously. So the controller

is the controlled. Thought has divided itself as the controller and

that which he is going to control, it is still the activity of thought.

You are following all this? Right? It is a strange phenomena that

thought has invented gods and then thought begins to worship them. Have

you noticed that? That is self worship. You understand? No, you don't.

 

J. Krishnamurti

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr

wrote:

>

> In meditation, classical, ordinary, the much talked about, it may

be a

> lot of propaganda, and all the gurus who are propagating it,

coining

> money, they are always concerned with the controller and the

> controlled. They have always said 'Control your thoughts,' -

because

> thereby you will end thought, or have only one thought. But we are

> enquiring into who is the controller? You might say, 'He is the

higher

> self', 'He is the witness.' 'He is something which is not

thought.' But

> the controller is part of thought. Right? Obviously. So the

controller

> is the controlled. Thought has divided itself as the controller

and

> that which he is going to control, it is still the activity of

thought.

> You are following all this? Right? It is a strange phenomena that

> thought has invented gods and then thought begins to worship them.

Have

> you noticed that? That is self worship. You understand? No, you

don't.

>

> J. Krishnamurti

 

 

 

Yes, thought is both worshipping and fearing itself.

 

Len

[Guest guest]

In meditation, classical, ordinary, the much talked

about, it may be a lot of propaganda, and all the gurus

who are propagating it, coining money, they are always

concerned with the controller and the controlled. They

have always said 'Control your thoughts,' - because

thereby you will end thought, or have only one thought.

But we are enquiring into who is the controller? You

might say, 'He is the higher self', 'He is the witness.'

'He is something which is not thought.' But the

controller is part of thought. Right? Obviously. So the

controller is the controlled. Thought has divided itself

as the controller and that which he is going to control,

it is still the activity of thought. You are following

all this? Right? It is a strange phenomena that thought

has invented gods and then thought begins to worship

them. Have you noticed that? That is self worship. You

understand? No, you don't.

 

J. Krishnamurti

 

~~~~~~~~

 

A little dose of nondual humor for the day

 

The phenomenon he describes there is a form of narcissism.

Narcissus looked into the pool and became enraptured by his

own image. A key point is that he did not realized it was

his own image. The same applies to the phenomenon of thought

in Krishnamurti's description. Thought doesn't *know* it is

worshipping itself. And keep in mind that thought isn't a

distinct entity. It is just a process. So a modern way to

understand the phenomenon Krishnamurti speaks of is to

describe it as a strange attractor. When the process becomes

*reflexive* (references itself) it finds a moving target that

has a " magical " synchrony with the process (itself). Hence

the power of self-reflection as a strange attractor.

 

The sages from ancient times (many of them anyway) speak of

the eternal quest to know " Who am I? " As if there were such

a who! That sort of " quest " can be seen as not so mysterious

in terms of the strange attractor model described. And looking

at it as a strange attractor helps shows that there need not

be an entity involved.

 

Bill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/22/2006 2:01:51 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

" Werner Woehr " <wwoehr

The controller is the Controlled

 

In meditation, classical, ordinary, the much talked about, it may be a

lot of propaganda, and all the gurus who are propagating it, coining

money, they are always concerned with the controller and the

controlled. They have always said 'Control your thoughts,' - because

thereby you will end thought, or have only one thought. But we are

enquiring into who is the controller? You might say, 'He is the higher

self', 'He is the witness.' 'He is something which is not thought.' But

the controller is part of thought. Right? Obviously. So the controller

is the controlled. Thought has divided itself as the controller and

that which he is going to control, it is still the activity of thought.

You are following all this? Right? It is a strange phenomena that

thought has invented gods and then thought begins to worship them. Have

you noticed that? That is self worship. You understand? No, you don't.

 

J. Krishnamurti

 

 

 

 

" Thought has divided itself as the controller and

that which he is going to control "

 

 

Zackly, and this is what mind does every time it pretends to choose

something other than exactly what is happening. This is the attempt to stop

thinking,

to surrender, to be desireless, to be peaceful, to be free.

 

Phil