Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 The teacher of Nisargadatta's teacher compiled a collection of bhajans, which are chants or prayers whose purpose is to connect one with the teaching on a daily basis. Nisargadatta was known to say bahajans faithfully every day, and it is likely that the form he used was the collection of his teacher's teacher. A friend recites these bhajans several times a day and loves doing it(there are separate ones for early morning, morning, afternoon, and evening.)I have the English translation he uses, but it just doesn't speak to me, certainly not as Maurice Frydman's translation of " I Am That " does. Does anyone know if Maurice Frydman did an English translation of the bahajans that Nisargadatta used, and if so where they may be obtained? Thanks for any information you can furnish. John Sieber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Dear John, I don't think there are translations of Bhajanas by Maurice Frydman. But I would like to recommend this page: http://www.sadguru.us/Bhajans.htm There you can find not only many recordings of those Bhajanas as used by Maharaj, there is also a lot of background information and lyrics, along with word by word translations from Ranjit Maharaj. The translations are presented along with phonetic transcriptions. I think this (accompanied with the recordings) is the best way to get an idea of the bhajanas. They are not " teachings " (like Nisargadattas talks), in which case the translation is a highly delicate undertaking. They are part of an ancient and deeply rooted religious tradition in India. Words, music, sound and the act of group chanting are forming a whole and play all equally important roles. Best wishes Stefan Nisargadatta , " nondualkid " <john wrote: > >The teacher of Nisargadatta's teacher compiled a collection of >bhajans, which are chants or prayers whose purpose is to connect one >with the teaching on a daily basis. Nisargadatta was known to say >bahajans faithfully every day, and it is likely that the form he used >was the collection of his teacher's teacher. A friend recites these >bhajans several times a day and loves doing it(there are separate ones >for early morning, morning, afternoon, and evening.)I have the English >translation he uses, but it just doesn't speak to me, certainly not as >Maurice Frydman's translation of " I Am That " does. Does anyone know if >Maurice Frydman did an English translation of the bahajans that >Nisargadatta used, and if so where they may be obtained? > >Thanks for any information you can furnish. > >John Sieber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Dear John, > > I don't think there are translations of Bhajanas by Maurice Frydman. > But I would like to recommend this page: > > http://www.sadguru.us/Bhajans.htm > > There you can find not only many recordings of those Bhajanas as used > by Maharaj, there is also a lot of background information and lyrics, > along with word by word translations from Ranjit Maharaj. > > The translations are presented along with phonetic transcriptions. > I think this (accompanied with the recordings) is the best > way to get an idea of the bhajanas. They are not " teachings " (like > Nisargadattas talks), in which case the translation is a highly > delicate undertaking. They are part of an ancient and deeply rooted > religious tradition in India. Words, music, sound and the act of group > chanting are forming a whole and play all equally important roles. > > Best wishes > Stefan > > > Nisargadatta , " nondualkid " <john@> wrote: > > > >The teacher of Nisargadatta's teacher compiled a collection of > >bhajans, which are chants or prayers whose purpose is to connect one > >with the teaching on a daily basis. Nisargadatta was known to say > >bahajans faithfully every day, and it is likely that the form he used > >was the collection of his teacher's teacher. A friend recites these > >bhajans several times a day and loves doing it(there are separate ones > >for early morning, morning, afternoon, and evening.)I have the English > >translation he uses, but it just doesn't speak to me, certainly not as > >Maurice Frydman's translation of " I Am That " does. Does anyone know if > >Maurice Frydman did an English translation of the bahajans that > >Nisargadatta used, and if so where they may be obtained? > > > >Thanks for any information you can furnish. > > > >John Sieber > Bhajans can be kinda fun......can even lull the mind into a kind of stupor. And unlike other purposeful inertia inducing methods .... bhajans don't leave in their wake a hangover. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Dear Stefan, Thank you very much for the thoughtful reply to my question. Unfortunately, the English translation of the Bhajans that I found unsatisfactory is the one at the Ranjit Maharaj link that you gave me. Perhaps it is the message itself in the Bhajans, not merely the translation, that doesn't speak to me. I even have a book of commentaries by Ranjit Maharaj on the bhajans entitled " From Bondage to Liberation. " I assume that the reason it has been of little help is because his English is imperfect. I wished for the eloquence of Maurice Frydman, and so I thought I would check to see if he had done a translation. The friend of mine I mentioned is a disciple of Ranjit. He brought him twice to Houston (where we live,) travelled to be with him a number of times, and still gets together with Ranjit devotees every year. My friend is the most awakened person (if you'll excuse the oxymoron) that I know personally. So you can understand my interest in the bhajans, which he has been urging on me for a long time. To him it is a way to keep connected to the Advaita teaching. At the web link you gave me, it is stated, " He [Ranjit] would say that the the teaching of this lineage is contained in the bhajans, and that consistently singing the bhajans helped the devotee by keeping his mind focused on the teaching contained therein. He constantly urged us to understand the meaning of the words contained within the bhajans, which was the same as His teaching. " Ranjit's devotees speak of the bhajans as worship, but in Ranjit's book of commentaries he says that worship can take many forms, including reading or listening to the teaching, mulling it over, discussing it, etc. I agree with that view but have an automatic reluctance to take up worship as it is usually understood. I'm willing to consider it, but I was glad to hear that Rajit has a broader definition. I have considered compiling my own bhajans from quotes that I have strongly responded to through the years. The first one that came to mind when I first sat down to consider this, was Nisargadatta's: " The universe works by itself. That I know. What more do I need to know? " I'm not sure what I'll do next. I suppose I'll keep trying to work with the translation that Ranjit's devotees use, and also try compiling my own list. Thanks again, John Stefan wrote: > Dear John, > > I don't think there are translations of Bhajanas by Maurice Frydman. > But I would like to recommend this page: > > http://www.sadguru.us/Bhajans.htm > > There you can find not only many recordings of those Bhajanas as used > by Maharaj, there is also a lot of background information and lyrics, > along with word by word translations from Ranjit Maharaj. > > The translations are presented along with phonetic transcriptions. > I think this (accompanied with the recordings) is the best > way to get an idea of the bhajanas. They are not " teachings " (like > Nisargadattas talks), in which case the translation is a highly > delicate undertaking. They are part of an ancient and deeply rooted > religious tradition in India. Words, music, sound and the act of group > chanting are forming a whole and play all equally important roles. > > Best wishes > Stefan > > > Nisargadatta , " nondualkid " <john wrote: > > > >The teacher of Nisargadatta's teacher compiled a collection of > >bhajans, which are chants or prayers whose purpose is to connect one > >with the teaching on a daily basis. Nisargadatta was known to say > >bahajans faithfully every day, and it is likely that the form he used > >was the collection of his teacher's teacher. A friend recites these > >bhajans several times a day and loves doing it(there are separate ones > >for early morning, morning, afternoon, and evening.)I have the English > >translation he uses, but it just doesn't speak to me, certainly not as > >Maurice Frydman's translation of " I Am That " does. Does anyone know if > >Maurice Frydman did an English translation of the bahajans that > >Nisargadatta used, and if so where they may be obtained? > > > >Thanks for any information you can furnish. > > > >John Sieber > > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , John Sieber <john wrote: > > Dear Stefan, > > Thank you very much for the thoughtful reply to my question. > Unfortunately, the English translation of the Bhajans that I found > unsatisfactory is the one at the Ranjit Maharaj link that you gave me. > Perhaps it is the message itself in the Bhajans, not merely the > translation, that doesn't speak to me. I even have a book of > commentaries by Ranjit Maharaj on the bhajans entitled " From Bondage to > Liberation. " I assume that the reason it has been of little help is > because his English is imperfect. I wished for the eloquence of Maurice > Frydman, and so I thought I would check to see if he had done a translation. > > The friend of mine I mentioned is a disciple of Ranjit. He brought him > twice to Houston (where we live,) travelled to be with him a number of > times, and still gets together with Ranjit devotees every year. My > friend is the most awakened person (if you'll excuse the oxymoron) that > I know personally. So you can understand my interest in the bhajans, > which he has been urging on me for a long time. To him it is a way to > keep connected to the Advaita teaching. At the web link you gave me, it > is stated, " He [Ranjit] would say that the the teaching of this lineage > is contained in the bhajans, and that consistently singing the bhajans > helped the devotee by keeping his mind focused on the teaching contained > therein. He constantly urged us to understand the meaning of the words > contained within the bhajans, which was the same as His teaching. " > > Ranjit's devotees speak of the bhajans as worship, but in Ranjit's book > of commentaries he says that worship can take many forms, including > reading or listening to the teaching, mulling it over, discussing it, > etc. I agree with that view but have an automatic reluctance to take up > worship as it is usually understood. I'm willing to consider it, but I > was glad to hear that Rajit has a broader definition. I have considered > compiling my own bhajans from quotes that I have strongly responded to > through the years. The first one that came to mind when I first sat down > to consider this, was Nisargadatta's: " The universe works by itself. > That I know. What more do I need to know? " > > I'm not sure what I'll do next. I suppose I'll keep trying to work with > the translation that Ranjit's devotees use, and also try compiling my > own list. > > Thanks again, > John > > Stefan wrote: > > > Dear John, > > > > I don't think there are translations of Bhajanas by Maurice Frydman. > > But I would like to recommend this page: > > > > http://www.sadguru.us/Bhajans.htm > > > > There you can find not only many recordings of those Bhajanas as used > > by Maharaj, there is also a lot of background information and lyrics, > > along with word by word translations from Ranjit Maharaj. > > > > The translations are presented along with phonetic transcriptions. > > I think this (accompanied with the recordings) is the best > > way to get an idea of the bhajanas. They are not " teachings " (like > > Nisargadattas talks), in which case the translation is a highly > > delicate undertaking. They are part of an ancient and deeply rooted > > religious tradition in India. Words, music, sound and the act of group > > chanting are forming a whole and play all equally important roles. > > > > Best wishes > > Stefan > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " nondualkid " <john@> wrote: > > > > > >The teacher of Nisargadatta's teacher compiled a collection of > > >bhajans, which are chants or prayers whose purpose is to connect one > > >with the teaching on a daily basis. Nisargadatta was known to say > > >bahajans faithfully every day, and it is likely that the form he used > > >was the collection of his teacher's teacher. A friend recites these > > >bhajans several times a day and loves doing it(there are separate ones > > >for early morning, morning, afternoon, and evening.)I have the English > > >translation he uses, but it just doesn't speak to me, certainly not as > > >Maurice Frydman's translation of " I Am That " does. Does anyone know if > > >Maurice Frydman did an English translation of the bahajans that > > >Nisargadatta used, and if so where they may be obtained? > > > > > >Thanks for any information you can furnish. > > > > > >John Sieber > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > It became known that just prior to his awakening, the old monk had stubbed his toe on the old cat that hung out in the temple. You can imagine the effect that this had on the old cat was not in accord with his usual laidback life. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , John Sieber <john@> wrote: > > > > Dear Stefan, > > > > Thank you very much for the thoughtful reply to my question. > > Unfortunately, the English translation of the Bhajans that I found > > unsatisfactory is the one at the Ranjit Maharaj link that you gave me. > > Perhaps it is the message itself in the Bhajans, not merely the > > translation, that doesn't speak to me. I even have a book of > > commentaries by Ranjit Maharaj on the bhajans entitled " From Bondage to > > Liberation. " I assume that the reason it has been of little help is > > because his English is imperfect. I wished for the eloquence of Maurice > > Frydman, and so I thought I would check to see if he had done a translation. > > > > The friend of mine I mentioned is a disciple of Ranjit. He brought him > > twice to Houston (where we live,) travelled to be with him a number of > > times, and still gets together with Ranjit devotees every year. My > > friend is the most awakened person (if you'll excuse the oxymoron) that > > I know personally. So you can understand my interest in the bhajans, > > which he has been urging on me for a long time. To him it is a way to > > keep connected to the Advaita teaching. At the web link you gave me, it > > is stated, " He [Ranjit] would say that the the teaching of this lineage > > is contained in the bhajans, and that consistently singing the bhajans > > helped the devotee by keeping his mind focused on the teaching contained > > therein. He constantly urged us to understand the meaning of the words > > contained within the bhajans, which was the same as His teaching. " > > > > Ranjit's devotees speak of the bhajans as worship, but in Ranjit's book > > of commentaries he says that worship can take many forms, including > > reading or listening to the teaching, mulling it over, discussing it, > > etc. I agree with that view but have an automatic reluctance to take up > > worship as it is usually understood. I'm willing to consider it, but I > > was glad to hear that Rajit has a broader definition. I have considered > > compiling my own bhajans from quotes that I have strongly responded to > > through the years. The first one that came to mind when I first sat down > > to consider this, was Nisargadatta's: " The universe works by itself. > > That I know. What more do I need to know? " > > > > I'm not sure what I'll do next. I suppose I'll keep trying to work with > > the translation that Ranjit's devotees use, and also try compiling my > > own list. > > > > Thanks again, > > John > > > > Stefan wrote: > > > > > Dear John, > > > > > > I don't think there are translations of Bhajanas by Maurice Frydman. > > > But I would like to recommend this page: > > > > > > http://www.sadguru.us/Bhajans.htm > > > > > > There you can find not only many recordings of those Bhajanas as used > > > by Maharaj, there is also a lot of background information and lyrics, > > > along with word by word translations from Ranjit Maharaj. > > > > > > The translations are presented along with phonetic transcriptions. > > > I think this (accompanied with the recordings) is the best > > > way to get an idea of the bhajanas. They are not " teachings " (like > > > Nisargadattas talks), in which case the translation is a highly > > > delicate undertaking. They are part of an ancient and deeply rooted > > > religious tradition in India. Words, music, sound and the act of group > > > chanting are forming a whole and play all equally important roles. > > > > > > Best wishes > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " nondualkid " <john@> wrote: > > > > > > > >The teacher of Nisargadatta's teacher compiled a collection of > > > >bhajans, which are chants or prayers whose purpose is to connect one > > > >with the teaching on a daily basis. Nisargadatta was known to say > > > >bahajans faithfully every day, and it is likely that the form he used > > > >was the collection of his teacher's teacher. A friend recites these > > > >bhajans several times a day and loves doing it(there are separate ones > > > >for early morning, morning, afternoon, and evening.)I have the English > > > >translation he uses, but it just doesn't speak to me, certainly not as > > > >Maurice Frydman's translation of " I Am That " does. Does anyone know if > > > >Maurice Frydman did an English translation of the bahajans that > > > >Nisargadatta used, and if so where they may be obtained? > > > > > > > >Thanks for any information you can furnish. > > > > > > > >John Sieber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > It became known that just prior to his awakening, the old monk had stubbed his toe on > the old cat that hung out in the temple. > > You can imagine the effect that this had on the old cat was not in accord with his usual > laidback life. > > > toombaru > So many of Nisargadatta's fans smoked that his followers became known as the 'Smoking Lineage'. The only problem with that is it so difficult to chant bhajans and cough at the same time. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Hi Toombaru, nice to see you back here... I enjoyed your satires, especially the one about that guru satsang I was always bewildered about this special bunch of people on their holy spiritual path. I have also heard that they do a lot of " chanting " in South California. They might call it bhajanas, and I can imagine (brrrrrrrr...) how that sounds. I don't know Ranjit, and from what I heard I have mixed feelings. I know that Nisargadatta was involved in the advaita vedanta tradition including its rituals. I don't think that this was a problem. I guess the problem arises when westerners blindly adapt traditions which are not their own. Using exotic rituals to escape their boredom and feel interesting and important. Or (worse) believe that doing such rituals is a solution to their problems. In India and for Indians this kind of worship has a completely different context. If you ever have heard and maybe joined Indians doing bhajanas on the street while waiting for the bus... you immediately know the difference. You said it well: one does not get a hangover from them. Moreover... I think it is much wiser to use up time with friends this way, than to go into endless and futile discussions about the nature of consciousness. You know, basically I do not think there is much to say. Greetings Stefan >It became known that just prior to his awakening, the old monk had >stubbed his toe on the old cat that hung out in the temple. > >You can imagine the effect that this had on the old cat was not in >accord with his usual laidback life. > >toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Hi Toombaru, > > nice to see you back here... I enjoyed your satires, especially the > one about that guru satsang I was always bewildered about this > special bunch of people on their holy spiritual path. I have also > heard that they do a lot of " chanting " in South California. They might > call it bhajanas, and I can imagine (brrrrrrrr...) how that sounds. > > I don't know Ranjit, and from what I heard I have mixed feelings. I > know that Nisargadatta was involved in the advaita vedanta tradition > including its rituals. I don't think that this was a problem. I guess > the problem arises when westerners blindly adapt traditions which are > not their own. Using exotic rituals to escape their boredom and feel > interesting and important. Or (worse) believe that doing such rituals > is a solution to their problems. In India and for Indians this kind of > worship has a completely different context. If you ever have heard and > maybe joined Indians doing bhajanas on the street while waiting for > the bus... you immediately know the difference. You said it well: one > does not get a hangover from them. Moreover... I think it is much > wiser to use up time with friends this way, than to go into endless > and futile discussions about the nature of consciousness. > > You know, basically I do not think there is much to say. > > > Greetings > Stefan > :-) There is a lot to say........very little to understand. My satires are always and only making fun of my self. Some of them it finds very painful. LOL toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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