Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 In a message dated 2/28/2006 7:54:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:46:15 -0000 " exodus1911_rev1911 " <exodus1911_rev1911 Re: Horses and Carts as this applies to faith is the by product of wisdom? where does wisdom come first and faith second. when the I Am reveals Itself or Himself can you recieve it through have intellect or must you have acceptance first. even in the idol philosophy, it is said the transmition of knowledge only takes place when you have the proper teacher and recipient ie guru and student. therefore acceptance must be first before knowledge is understood. accept therefore i recieve. if a person says let me give you this and the recipient does not put out thier hand then the tranaction doesn 't take place. so first you must have faith in the process of reciving knowlege from the right source before you can assimilate the knowledge. i think you make toombooboo, that is a mistake of the dead. lol if you accept then you may understand, but if you put up a wall resitence and say i do not accept logic in this case a little humour too, then perhaps you may not understand. school children learn because they accept their teachers as authoritative. That is the first criteria. doubt logic? peace/over I believe it's so that we must be open to understanding before it will occur, because no new understanding comes from within the mind. However, I didn't interpret 'acceptance' to mean openness to new understandings, but rather the release of struggle; the acceptance of all that is. Such acceptance is not a choice; not a doing. It occurs when it is believed that to accept will yield what is desired. This belief is also not a choice or a superficial pretense of mind. Rather, it comes from a deep understanding of the futility of struggle and fulfillment of dualistic desire and the freeing oneself of attachments. This is understanding that comes from experience that automatically results in acceptance. Even the faith that you talk about is not chosen but arises from dynamics that leads to the deep understanding that faith is of value. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/28/2006 7:54:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:46:15 -0000 > > " exodus1911_rev1911 " <exodus1911_rev1911@> > > Re: Horses and Carts > > > > as this applies to faith is the by product of wisdom? > > > > where does wisdom come first and faith second. > > > > when the I Am reveals Itself or Himself can you recieve it through > > have intellect or must you have acceptance first. > > > > even in the idol philosophy, it is said the transmition of knowledge > > only takes place when you have the proper teacher and recipient ie > > guru and student. > > > > therefore acceptance must be first before knowledge is understood. > > > > accept therefore i recieve. > > > > if a person says let me give you this and the recipient does not put > > out thier hand then the tranaction doesn 't take place. > > > > so first you must have faith in the process of reciving knowlege > > from the right source before you can assimilate the knowledge. > > > > i think you make toombooboo, that is a mistake of the dead. lol > > > > if you accept then you may understand, but if you put up a wall > > resitence and say i do not accept logic in this case a little humour > > too, then perhaps you may not understand. > > > > school children learn because they accept their teachers as > > authoritative. That is the first criteria. > > > > doubt logic? > > > > peace/over > > > > > > > > > > I believe > (this should be your first clue) >>it's so that we must be open to understanding before it will > > occur, Forcing that which we think of as our'self' into being more open is an odd behavior indeed...and not likely to succeed. Are there two of us inside....an objective, one all knowing observer and one ne'er- do-well that needs to be made to be 'more open'? > > > because no new understanding comes from within the mind. However, I didn't > > interpret 'acceptance' to mean openness to new understandings, but rather the > > release of struggle; the acceptance of all that is. > > Kinda..struggling to release the struggle? > > > > > Such acceptance is not a choice; not a doing. It occurs when it is believed > > that to accept will yield what is desired. So you have to choose to believe? Desire is the root of the dilemma.....not the way out of it. > This belief is also not a choice or > > a superficial pretense of mind. Rather, it comes from a deep understanding > > of the futility of struggle and fulfillment of dualistic desire and the > > freeing oneself of attachments. This is understanding that comes from experience > > that automatically results in acceptance. Even the faith that you talk about is > > not chosen but arises from dynamics that leads to the deep understanding > > that faith is of value. > > To whom? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 In a message dated 3/1/2006 3:27:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 07:28:04 -0000 " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Re: Horses and Carts Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/28/2006 7:54:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:46:15 -0000 > " exodus1911_rev1911 " <exodus1911_rev1911 > Re: Horses and Carts > > as this applies to faith is the by product of wisdom? > > where does wisdom come first and faith second. > > when the I Am reveals Itself or Himself can you recieve it through > have intellect or must you have acceptance first. > > even in the idol philosophy, it is said the transmition of knowledge > only takes place when you have the proper teacher and recipient ie > guru and student. > > therefore acceptance must be first before knowledge is understood. > > accept therefore i recieve. > > if a person says let me give you this and the recipient does not put > out thier hand then the tranaction doesn 't take place. > > so first you must have faith in the process of reciving knowlege > from the right source before you can assimilate the knowledge. > > i think you make toombooboo, that is a mistake of the dead. lol > > if you accept then you may understand, but if you put up a wall > resitence and say i do not accept logic in this case a little humour > too, then perhaps you may not understand. > > school children learn because they accept their teachers as > authoritative. That is the first criteria. > > doubt logic? > > peace/over I believe (this should be your first clue) Phil: >it's so that we must be open to understanding before it will > occur, Toom: Forcing that which we think of as our'self' into being more open is an odd behavior indeed...and not likely to succeed. Are there two inside of us inside....an objective, one all knowing observer and one ne'er- do-well that needs to be made to be 'more open'? Phil: Yer not listening. Openness and willingness must be present. I never implied this could be forced or chosen. because no new understanding comes from within the mind. However, I didn't > interpret 'acceptance' to mean openness to new understandings, but rather the > release of struggle; the acceptance of all that is. Toom: Kinda..struggling to release the struggle? Phil: Yer not listening. I never implied that one could release by struggling or even choosing. All's I did was define what is necessary for acceptance. > Such acceptance is not a choice; not a doing. It occurs when it is believed > that to accept will yield what is desired. Toom: So you have to choose to believe? Desire is the root of the dilemma.....not the way out of it. Phil: Yer not listening. I said it occurs when there is a belief present. I never implied this belief could be chosen. In fact, I stated that it was not a choice in the next line. It's not necessary to comprehend anything in order to negate it. Perhaps that would be a simpler approach for you? " This belief is also not a choice " Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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