Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 P Excellent, Werner, Thanks! On Feb 27, 2006, at 3:09 AM, Nisargadatta wrote: > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr > Do you believe in the existence of a Soul ? > > Question: Do you believe in the existence of the soul? Does this > continue to live infinitely after the death of the body? > > Krishnamurti: Most people believe in the existence of the soul in > some form or other. Now you will not understand what I am going to > say if, in defence, you merely oppose it, or quote some authority for > your belief which is cultivated through tradition and fear; nor can > this belief be called intuition when it is only a vague hope. > > Illusion divides itself infinitely. The soul is a division, born of > illusion. There is first the body, then there is the soul that > occupies it, and finally there is God or reality: this is how you > have divided life. > > Now the limited consciousness of the " I " , is the result of incomplete > actions, and this limited consciousness is creating its own illusions > and is caught in its own ignorance; and when the mind is free from > its own ignorance and illusion, then there is reality, not " you " > becoming that reality. > > Please do not accept what I say, but begin to question and understand > how your own belief has come into being. Then you will see how subtly > the mind has divided life. You will begin to understand the > significance of this division, which is a subtle form of egotistic > desire for continuance. As long as this illusion, with all its > subtleties, exists, there cannot be reality. > > As this is one of the most controversial subjects and there exists so > much prejudice with regard to it, one has to be very careful not to > be swayed by opinion for or against the idea of the soul. In > understanding reality, this question as to whether there is a soul or > not, will be answered. To understand reality, mind must be utterly > free from the limitation of fear. with its craving for egotistic > continuance. > > Question: Is the soul a reality? > > Krishnamurti: Again I would ask the audience to listen without > prejudice, without bigotry, to this point. When you talk about > the " soul " , you mean a something between the material and the > spiritual, between body and God. So you have divided life into > matter, spirit, and God. Isn't that so? If I may say this, you who > talk about " soul " , know nothing about it, you are accepting it merely > on authority, or it is based on some hope, on some unfulfilled > longing. You have accepted on authority many fundamental ideas, as > you have accepted " soul " to be a reality. > > Please consider what I am going to say, without any prejudice either > in favour of or against the idea of soul, and without any > preconceived ideas, in order to discover what is true. The only > actuality of which we are fully cognizant, with which we have to > concern ourselves, is suffering; we are conscious of that constant > unfulfillment, limitation, incompleteness which causes conflict and > suffering. This consciousness of sorrow is the only actuality from > which you can start, and it is only in understanding the cause of > suffering and being intelligently free from it, that there comes the > ecstasy of reality. When the mind has disentangled itself from all > illusions and hopes, then there is the bliss of reality > > Through all this conflict and misery, one feels that there must be a > reality, a God, an infinite intelligence, or whatever one may call > it. That feeling may be merely a reaction from this agony, and > therefore unreal, and so its pursuit must lead to ever increasing > illusions; or it may be the intrinsic desire to discover truth which > cannot be measured or systematized. If we can discover what creates > conflict and who is the creator of sorrow, then in uprooting the > cause of this there can be the true felicity of man. This almost > ceaseless battle, this seemingly unending sorrow, is created by that > limited consciousness which we call the " I " . We have created about > ourselves many false values, false ideals, to which the mind has > become a slave. There is a constant struggle taking place between > these illusions and the present, and there must ever be conflict as > long as these self-protective illusions exist. This conflict creates > in our minds the idea of the particular, the " I " . So from this > limited consciousness arises division as the " I " , the impermanent, > and the " I " , the permanent, the eternal. When the mind is wholly free > from the self-protective illusions and false values which are the > cause of limited consciousness and of its many stupidities, then each > one shall realize for himself whether there is truth or not. > > If I merely said there is a soul, I should but add another belief to > your many beliefs. So of what value would it be? Whereas, the only > actuality of which we are conscious is this struggle, this suffering, > this exploitation to which we have become slaves; and in > intelligently freeing ourselves, not escaping from it, we shall > discern the lasting in the transient, the real in the illusion. > > May 28, 1935 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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