Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 < Acceptance is violence. < toombaru Perhaps it is that the " attempt " to accept is violence! Yes? In my view, there is no such thing as *acceptance* except as *effortlessness* which also doesn't exist. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > > < Acceptance is violence. > > < toombaru > > Perhaps it is that the " attempt " to accept is violence! Yes? In my view, there is no such thing as *acceptance* except as > *effortlessness* which also doesn't exist. > > Michael maybe toombaru tried out your degree of " acceptance " ....in writing some non-sense..... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > > < Acceptance is violence. > > < toombaru > > Perhaps it is that the " attempt " to accept is violence! Yes? In my view, there is no such thing as *acceptance* except as > *effortlessness* which also doesn't exist. > > Michael > The attempt to accept is merely the effort by the imaginary entity to force its self into what is imagined will be more acceptable container......finding a more comfortable shell.....a futile attempt to make an aggravating condition....livable. " Acceptance " does not exist within nature. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 In a message dated 3/1/2006 8:21:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:04:13 -0800 " Adamson " <adamson Re: Acceptance is violence! < Acceptance is violence. < toombaru Perhaps it is that the " attempt " to accept is violence! Yes? In my view, there is no such thing as *acceptance* except as *effortlessness* which also doesn't exist. Michael No such thing as acceptance or effortlessness? They are concepts. Leave them alone. They have value in understanding. What is this campaign to negate understanding? Do folks believe that pretending the illusion doesn't exist makes it disappear? How's that workin for ya? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 In a message dated 3/1/2006 8:21:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:09:22 -0000 " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Re: Acceptance is violence! Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > > < Acceptance is violence. > > < toombaru > > Perhaps it is that the " attempt " to accept is violence! Yes? In my view, there is no such thing as *acceptance* except as > *effortlessness* which also doesn't exist. > > Michael > The attempt to accept is merely the effort by the imaginary entity to force its self into what is imagined will be more acceptable container......finding a more comfortable shell.....a futile attempt to make an aggravating condition....livable. " Acceptance " does not exist within nature. toombaru That's right. Nature doesn't contemplate what has gone horribly wrong and needs to change. It 'naturally' accepts what is without effort. It is a human dis-ease only. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/1/2006 8:21:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:04:13 -0800 > " Adamson " <adamson > Re: Acceptance is violence! > > > > < Acceptance is violence. > > < toombaru > > Perhaps it is that the " attempt " to accept is violence! Yes? In my view, > there is no such thing as *acceptance* except as > *effortlessness* which also doesn't exist. > > Michael > > > > No such thing as acceptance or effortlessness? They are concepts. Leave them > alone. They have value in understanding. What is this campaign to negate > understanding? Do folks believe that pretending the illusion doesn't exist makes > it disappear? How's that workin for ya? > > Phil This reminds me of something Niz said: He said something like " Enlightenment is the ultimate negation of all that you are not. " Something like that, I forget. Oh well. Whatever. " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/1/2006 8:21:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:09:22 -0000 > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: Acceptance is violence! > > Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > < Acceptance is violence. > > > > < toombaru > > > > Perhaps it is that the " attempt " to accept is violence! Yes? In my view, > there is no such > thing as *acceptance* except as > > *effortlessness* which also doesn't exist. > > > > Michael > > > > > The attempt to accept is merely the effort by the imaginary entity to force > its self into what > is imagined will be more acceptable container......finding a more > comfortable shell.....a > futile attempt to make an aggravating condition....livable. > > > > " Acceptance " does not exist within nature. > > toombaru > > > > > That's right. Nature doesn't contemplate what has gone horribly wrong and > needs to change. It 'naturally' accepts what is without effort. It is a human > dis-ease only. > > Phil acceptance of the ignorant self can create some great violence.... in the mind....and so...in the world ignorance is never realy accepted by the Self....thats the nature of Self....to don't accept what is Not-Self.... the projection of this " inner fight " .....this is what exactly is percieved....in a world...... therefore it's clear that some minds can't be satisfied with the world.....means...with themself....the miserable self..... which has nothing in common with real Self Marc Ps: when this fight is over....there is deep peace.....and also......another world......just " appearing " .....as what it is.....and nothing else " acceptance " is what is the effect of all this....without " violence " > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: Do folks believe that pretending the illusion doesn't exist makes > it disappear? Yes, this is what people believe. They read somewhere that the self is unreal and then start repeating it in the hope that it will disappear ;-) But the only thing which happens is adding one illusion to another. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Life is filled great illusions, sarcasm, pretension Because these make us laugh until we cry... So why not? Please realize that the mind can only focus on a single thought at a time, The rest of other thoughts are being in queue and sooner or later, they vanish, including that single thought.... That is a reson why repeating mantras help with focusing the mind into a single thought...!! Since other thoughts have been in queue too long, they just give up!!! It is all about being mindful of thoughts.... Well, the subject of this post is about 'Acceptance of What is " and to say that " Acceptance is violence " is not very logic. The only concept that comes into mind right now, when it comes to acceptance, is " Unconditional giving up or surrender of oneself " . Is it violent? That depends on the pre-disposition of one's mental efforts. Don't you guys think that it is JUST the opposite...like being too pessimistic instead of optimistic!!!! ~no-me~ lissbon2002 <lissbon2002 wrote: --- In Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: Do folks believe that pretending the illusion doesn't exist makes > it disappear? Yes, this is what people believe. They read somewhere that the self is unreal and then start repeating it in the hope that it will disappear ;-) But the only thing which happens is adding one illusion to another. Len ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 In a message dated 3/2/2006 5:34:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:38:55 -0000 " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069 Re: Acceptance is violence! Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/1/2006 8:21:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:04:13 -0800 > " Adamson " <adamson > Re: Acceptance is violence! > > > > < Acceptance is violence. > > < toombaru > > Perhaps it is that the " attempt " to accept is violence! Yes? In my view, > there is no such thing as *acceptance* except as > *effortlessness* which also doesn't exist. > > Michael > > > > No such thing as acceptance or effortlessness? They are concepts. Leave them > alone. They have value in understanding. What is this campaign to negate > understanding? Do folks believe that pretending the illusion doesn't exist makes > it disappear? How's that workin for ya? > > Phil This reminds me of something Niz said: He said something like " Enlightenment is the ultimate negation of all that you are not. " Something like that, I forget. Oh well. Whatever. " Silver " Yeah, sumthin like that. He also said, " We grow through investigation, and to investigate we need experience. We tend to repeat what we have not understood. " Hmmmmm...... Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 In a message dated 3/2/2006 11:29:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:38:47 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Acceptance is violence! Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: Do folks believe that pretending the illusion doesn't exist makes > it disappear? Yes, this is what people believe. They read somewhere that the self is unreal and then start repeating it in the hope that it will disappear ;-) But the only thing which happens is adding one illusion to another. Len I agree with that, Len. Or perhaps, adding a delusion to the illusion. Let's take thinking as an example, since lots of folks here struggle with the idea of somebody willingly putting together a concept. It should be obvious that thinking cannot be controlled, but some folks find that thoughts can be stopped in meditation for a time, and this convinces them that all they need to do is control them all the time. What is the origin of thought? These folks have no idea because they're too busy trying to stop any thoughts. Thoughts don't just mechanically occur, we think in order to fulfill a desire of some kind. We believe that desires can be fulfilled in the dualistic illusion and we can bring about a permanent happiness. This is a false notion but it needs to be investigated in order to find that out, not just as a concept but as an experiential realization. We believe that we can control our experience, but we are the process of perception and we end up trying to control our own creations. Control is an illusion. This can't be realized unless it's explored. We have all sorts of attachments to people, things and situations, how we're treated, how others should act or how they can be controlled or fixed. All this nonsense is the source of most compulsive thinking and it does not magically stop because we decide it should stop. We have to evolve spiritually to where we accept and release attachments and understand that a happy illusion is not our goal. As this evolution occurs, ego weakens and attachment to the illusion weakens and the compulsive thinking slows on it's own because of this mature understanding, not because we think and try to stop thinking at the same time. This is an absurd approach. Not all thinkingness is a problem. Attachment to thoughts and beliefs and opinions and compulsive thought is the problem; that which feeds ego's reality, superiority and sense of control. Enlightenment doesn't end thought. It is, however, the end of compulsion. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/2/2006 5:34:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:38:55 -0000 > " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069 > Re: Acceptance is violence! > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 3/1/2006 8:21:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:04:13 -0800 > > " Adamson " <adamson@> > > Re: Acceptance is violence! > > > > > > > > < Acceptance is violence. > > > > < toombaru > > > > Perhaps it is that the " attempt " to accept is violence! Yes? In > my view, > > there is no such thing as *acceptance* except as > > *effortlessness* which also doesn't exist. > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > No such thing as acceptance or effortlessness? They are concepts. > Leave them > > alone. They have value in understanding. What is this campaign to > negate > > understanding? Do folks believe that pretending the illusion > doesn't exist makes > > it disappear? How's that workin for ya? > > > > Phil > > This reminds me of something Niz said: He said something > like " Enlightenment is the ultimate negation of all that you are > not. " Something like that, I forget. Oh well. Whatever. > > " Silver " > > > > Yeah, sumthin like that. He also said, " We grow through > investigation, and to investigate we need experience. We tend to > repeat what we have not understood. " Hmmmmm...... > > Phil *********** Huh? Oh. I get it. Winnie the Pooh, a bear of very little brain, has grown quite a large pot-belly, I would say. He knows exactly where to investigate for honey and he eats from experience. I, on the other hand, big brained human that I am, can't figure out why I can't seem to find any honey under that rock over there. I keep looking there every morning but to no avail. I don't understand. And I'm starving!! " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/2/2006 11:29:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:38:47 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Acceptance is violence! > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > Do folks believe that pretending the illusion doesn't exist makes > > it disappear? > > > Yes, this is what people believe. They read somewhere that the self is > unreal and then start repeating it in the hope that it will > disappear ;-) But the only thing which happens is adding one illusion > to another. > > Len > I agree with that, Len. Or perhaps, adding a delusion to the illusion. Let's > take thinking as an example, since lots of folks here struggle with the idea > of somebody willingly putting together a concept. It should be obvious that > thinking cannot be controlled, but some folks find that thoughts can be > stopped in meditation for a time, and this convinces them that all they need to do > is control them all the time. But controlling thought is itself a thought activity. > What is the origin of thought? These folks have no idea because they're too > busy trying to stop any thoughts. Thoughts don't just mechanically occur, we > think in order to fulfill a desire of some kind. Yes, or to push away undesirable things. > We believe that desires can > be fulfilled in the dualistic illusion and we can bring about a permanent > happiness. This is a false notion but it needs to be investigated in order to > find that out, not just as a concept but as an experiential realization. Yes. > We > believe that we can control our experience, but we are the process of perception > and we end up trying to control our own creations. Control is an illusion. Yes, thought activity. > This can't be realized unless it's explored. We have all sorts of attachments > to people, things and situations, how we're treated, how others should act or > how they can be controlled or fixed. Yes, in order to save us from unpleasant emotional reactions. That´s where the urge to control comes from. > All this nonsense is the source of most compulsive thinking and it does not > magically stop because we decide it should stop. We have to evolve spiritually > to where we accept and release attachments and understand that a happy > illusion is not our goal. As this evolution occurs, ego weakens and attachment to > the illusion weakens and the compulsive thinking slows on it's own because of > this mature understanding, not because we think and try to stop thinking at > the same time. This is an absurd approach. Yes. > Not all thinkingness is a problem. Attachment to thoughts and beliefs and > opinions and compulsive thought is the problem; that which feeds ego's reality, > superiority and sense of control. Enlightenment doesn't end thought. It is, > however, the end of compulsion. > > Phil Of course, thought is necessary to function intelligently in the world. The compulsion to control thoughts only makes one stupid. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 In a message dated 3/3/2006 2:34:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:55:30 -0000 " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069 Re: Acceptance is violence! Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/2/2006 5:34:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:38:55 -0000 > " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069 > Re: Acceptance is violence! > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 3/1/2006 8:21:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:04:13 -0800 > > " Adamson " <adamson@> > > Re: Acceptance is violence! > > > > > > > > < Acceptance is violence. > > > > < toombaru > > > > Perhaps it is that the " attempt " to accept is violence! Yes? In > my view, > > there is no such thing as *acceptance* except as > > *effortlessness* which also doesn't exist. > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > No such thing as acceptance or effortlessness? They are concepts. > Leave them > > alone. They have value in understanding. What is this campaign to > negate > > understanding? Do folks believe that pretending the illusion > doesn't exist makes > > it disappear? How's that workin for ya? > > > > Phil > > This reminds me of something Niz said: He said something > like " Enlightenment is the ultimate negation of all that you are > not. " Something like that, I forget. Oh well. Whatever. > > " Silver " > > > > Yeah, sumthin like that. He also said, " We grow through > investigation, and to investigate we need experience. We tend to > repeat what we have not understood. " Hmmmmm...... > > Phil *********** Huh? Oh. I get it. Winnie the Pooh, a bear of very little brain, has grown quite a large pot-belly, I would say. He knows exactly where to investigate for honey and he eats from experience. I, on the other hand, big brained human that I am, can't figure out why I can't seem to find any honey under that rock over there. I keep looking there every morning but to no avail. I don't understand. And I'm starving!! " Silver " Zackly. The Truth is always present everywhere. How could it not be? It's all that exists. Pooh bears are too stupid to make up their own truth, and so they just follow their snouts straight to the beehive. Birds are born knowing how and where to build a nest. Spiders are born knowing how to design a web. Flowers are born knowing how to open in the morning, follow the sun across the sky, and close at night. They're too damn stupid to know that they can ignore everything they know and make up something else. Humans are much more smarterer. We have the remarkable ability to erect a facade in our minds to cover up and hide the only thing that really exists. We already know the Truth; I promise you this is so, but we're all atwitter over the one that we create with our superminds. We imagine beehives materializing from the subatomic actualization of the Quantum potential of the dimensional intersection of temporally stabilized energy wavicles, instead of noticing the beehive right under our snouts. And so we starve. " Phil " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:55:52 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Acceptance is violence! In a message dated 3/3/2006 2:14:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: P: > I agree with that, Len. Or perhaps, adding a delusion to the illusion. Let's > take thinking as an example, since lots of folks here struggle with the idea > of somebody willingly putting together a concept. It should be obvious that > thinking cannot be controlled, but some folks find that thoughts can be > stopped in meditation for a time, and this convinces them that all they need to do > is control them all the time. L: But controlling thought is itself a thought activity. P: Yes, that was my point. > Not all thinkingness is a problem. Attachment to thoughts and beliefs and > opinions and compulsive thought is the problem; that which feeds ego's reality, > superiority and sense of control. Enlightenment doesn't end thought. It is, > however, the end of compulsion. > > Phil L: Of course, thought is necessary to function intelligently in the world. The compulsion to control thoughts only makes one stupid. P: Yeah, some degree of thought is necessary in order to function, and actually, thinking for entertainment is not a problem as such. What creates a difficulty is when one thinks in the hopes of fulfilling desires. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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