Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 [...] > > > > PS: Do you want me to reduce using quotes [' " ]? > > no, i was just wondering what is the effect of quotes on your > speaking? changing tone, or some peculiar eye movement...or you just > use your finger to draw them in the air? I think it is very subjective. Consider following example: You say you don't exist! v/s " You " say... " you " don't exist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > > > > > > > PS: Do you want me to reduce using quotes [' " ]? > > > > no, i was just wondering what is the effect of quotes on your > > speaking? changing tone, or some peculiar eye movement...or you > just > > use your finger to draw them in the air? > > > > I think it is very subjective. > > > Consider following example: > > You say you don't exist! > > > v/s > > > " You " say... " you " don't exist! > You seem to be using quotes for emphasis. I believe it is more conventional to use *'s for that, as in: *You* say.... etc. But your point is well taken. The meaning can definitely shift depending on how the words are emphasized by the reader. For example, with: *I* am glad you are feeling better. the implication is that *I* am glad, even if others are not. while with: I am glad *you* are feeling better. the implication is that someone else (perhaps the writer?) is not feeling better. When people write they are mentally supplying the emphasis for themselves and it typically doesn't occur to them that the same words could be read with a different emphasis. Sometimes a reader will get a very different message than what was intended. Hence to dis-ambiguate by supplying the intended emphasis can avoid some misunderstandings. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 In a message dated 3/7/2006 12:35:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:54:20 -0000 " billrishel " <illusyn Re: Use of quotes / BW. Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > > > > > > > PS: Do you want me to reduce using quotes [' " ]? > > > > no, i was just wondering what is the effect of quotes on your > > speaking? changing tone, or some peculiar eye movement...or you > just > > use your finger to draw them in the air? > > > > I think it is very subjective. > > > Consider following example: > > You say you don't exist! > > > v/s > > > " You " say... " you " don't exist! > You seem to be using quotes for emphasis. I believe it is more conventional to use *'s for that, as in: *You* say.... etc. But your point is well taken. The meaning can definitely shift depending on how the words are emphasized by the reader. For example, with: *I* am glad you are feeling better. the implication is that *I* am glad, even if others are not. while with: I am glad *you* are feeling better. the implication is that someone else (perhaps the writer?) is not feeling better. When people write they are mentally supplying the emphasis for themselves and it typically doesn't occur to them that the same words could be read with a different emphasis. Sometimes a reader will get a very different message than what was intended. Hence to dis-ambiguate by supplying the intended emphasis can avoid some misunderstandings. Bill I don't use quotes for emphasis in spiritual discussions. " I " use them to imply that they are not meant to be taken literally, but are more conventions of " speech " , like " reality " or " human consciousness " or " truth " . It basically means, stop nit-picking and focus on the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/7/2006 12:35:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:54:20 -0000 > " billrishel " <illusyn > Re: Use of quotes / BW. > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: Do you want me to reduce using quotes [' " ]? > > > > > > no, i was just wondering what is the effect of quotes on your > > > speaking? changing tone, or some peculiar eye movement...or you > > just > > > use your finger to draw them in the air? > > > > > > > > I think it is very subjective. > > > > > > Consider following example: > > > > You say you don't exist! > > > > > > v/s > > > > > > " You " say... " you " don't exist! > > > > You seem to be using quotes for emphasis. > I believe it is more conventional to use > *'s for that, as in: > > *You* say.... etc. > > But your point is well taken. The meaning > can definitely shift depending on how > the words are emphasized by the reader. > > > For example, with: > > *I* am glad you are feeling better. > > the implication is that *I* am glad, > even if others are not. > > while with: > > I am glad *you* are feeling better. > > the implication is that someone else > (perhaps the writer?) is not feeling better. > > When people write they are mentally supplying > the emphasis for themselves and it typically > doesn't occur to them that the same words could > be read with a different emphasis. Sometimes > a reader will get a very different message than > what was intended. Hence to dis-ambiguate by > supplying the intended emphasis can avoid > some misunderstandings. > > > Bill > > > Phil: > > I don't use quotes for emphasis in spiritual discussions. " I " use them to > imply that they are not meant to be taken literally, but are more conventions of > " speech " , like " reality " or " human consciousness " or " truth " . It basically > means, stop nit-picking and focus on the point. > If it was your comment that I was responding to, then I misunderstood. And yes, I use quotes in a way that corresponds to what you seem to say here. I hadn't thought of it in quite the terms you put it -- I guess I've never really articulated as you have here. But now that you put it that way... yeah... that's kinda it. It is a way of " diffusing " nit-picky replies, as you say. BTW, something along similar lines is couching ones words in " teflon wrappers " . So, for example, saying... " It seems to me that... " and such is a way of deflecting nit-picky replies. That it " *seems to me* such-and-such " is indisputable. No one can say that is wrong. Whereas if I were to say... " such-and-such is the case " in absolute terms it *would* be disputable. And to make a " you statement " is even worse. You're always on shaky ground when making a " you " statement (by which I mean making a claim about the mental state etc. of the other person). Another kind of " teflon wrapper " is the " kinda " qualifier. There are many forms of it, as in " sort of " , " something like " , " along the lines of " , " in a manner such as " .... all of those put some " slack " into one's statement... making it harder for a retort to pin one down. It tends to make the other have to look at the essence of what you are saying, by not providing opportunities for distraction in focusing on minor details that are not really the point. You might say it is a kind of " stealth mode " designed to foil the *red herring attack*. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > > > > > > > PS: Do you want me to reduce using quotes [' " ]? > > > > no, i was just wondering what is the effect of quotes on your > > speaking? changing tone, or some peculiar eye movement...or you > just > > use your finger to draw them in the air? > > > > I think it is very subjective. > > > Consider following example: > > You say you don't exist! > > > v/s > > > " You " say... " you " don't exist! ******** Personally, I prefer the first version. But that's just " me " . " Silver " > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 In a message dated 3/7/2006 11:35:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:21:58 -0000 " billrishel " <illusyn Re: Use of quotes / BW. If it was your comment that I was responding to, then I misunderstood. And yes, I use quotes in a way that corresponds to what you seem to say here. I hadn't thought of it in quite the terms you put it -- I guess I've never really articulated as you have here. But now that you put it that way... yeah... that's kinda it. It is a way of " diffusing " nit-picky replies, as you say. BTW, something along similar lines is couching ones words in " teflon wrappers " . So, for example, saying... " It seems to me that... " and such is a way of deflecting nit-picky replies. That it " *seems to me* such-and-such " is indisputable. No one can say that is wrong. Whereas if I were to say... " such-and-such is the case " in absolute terms it *would* be disputable. And to make a " you statement " is even worse. You're always on shaky ground when making a " you " statement (by which I mean making a claim about the mental state etc. of the other person). Another kind of " teflon wrapper " is the " kinda " qualifier. There are many forms of it, as in " sort of " , " something like " , " along the lines of " , " in a manner such as " .... all of those put some " slack " into one's statement... making it harder for a retort to pin one down. It tends to make the other have to look at the essence of what you are saying, by not providing opportunities for distraction in focusing on minor details that are not really the point. You might say it is a kind of " stealth mode " designed to foil the *red herring attack*. Bill Yes, that's agreeable. It wasn't my post you originally commented on. I just wanted to clarify my use the quotes. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 if your a follower of bohm then you would well understand the indeterminate state and why people might use the terms that you have described below. - billrishel Nisargadatta Tuesday, March 07, 2006 11:21 PM Re: Use of quotes / BW. Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/7/2006 12:35:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:54:20 -0000 > " billrishel " <illusyn > Re: Use of quotes / BW. > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: Do you want me to reduce using quotes [' " ]? > > > > > > no, i was just wondering what is the effect of quotes on your > > > speaking? changing tone, or some peculiar eye movement...or you > > just > > > use your finger to draw them in the air? > > > > > > > > I think it is very subjective. > > > > > > Consider following example: > > > > You say you don't exist! > > > > > > v/s > > > > > > " You " say... " you " don't exist! > > > > You seem to be using quotes for emphasis. > I believe it is more conventional to use > *'s for that, as in: > > *You* say.... etc. > > But your point is well taken. The meaning > can definitely shift depending on how > the words are emphasized by the reader. > > > For example, with: > > *I* am glad you are feeling better. > > the implication is that *I* am glad, > even if others are not. > > while with: > > I am glad *you* are feeling better. > > the implication is that someone else > (perhaps the writer?) is not feeling better. > > When people write they are mentally supplying > the emphasis for themselves and it typically > doesn't occur to them that the same words could > be read with a different emphasis. Sometimes > a reader will get a very different message than > what was intended. Hence to dis-ambiguate by > supplying the intended emphasis can avoid > some misunderstandings. > > > Bill > > > Phil: > > I don't use quotes for emphasis in spiritual discussions. " I " use them to > imply that they are not meant to be taken literally, but are more conventions of > " speech " , like " reality " or " human consciousness " or " truth " . It basically > means, stop nit-picking and focus on the point. > If it was your comment that I was responding to, then I misunderstood. And yes, I use quotes in a way that corresponds to what you seem to say here. I hadn't thought of it in quite the terms you put it -- I guess I've never really articulated as you have here. But now that you put it that way... yeah... that's kinda it. It is a way of " diffusing " nit-picky replies, as you say. BTW, something along similar lines is couching ones words in " teflon wrappers " . So, for example, saying... " It seems to me that... " and such is a way of deflecting nit-picky replies. That it " *seems to me* such-and-such " is indisputable. No one can say that is wrong. Whereas if I were to say... " such-and-such is the case " in absolute terms it *would* be disputable. And to make a " you statement " is even worse. You're always on shaky ground when making a " you " statement (by which I mean making a claim about the mental state etc. of the other person). Another kind of " teflon wrapper " is the " kinda " qualifier. There are many forms of it, as in " sort of " , " something like " , " along the lines of " , " in a manner such as " .... all of those put some " slack " into one's statement... making it harder for a retort to pin one down. It tends to make the other have to look at the essence of what you are saying, by not providing opportunities for distraction in focusing on minor details that are not really the point. You might say it is a kind of " stealth mode " designed to foil the *red herring attack*. Bill ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 if your a follower of bohm then you would well understand the indeterminate state and why people might use the terms that you have described below. >>>>>>>>>> Now that was bright! I love it when someone actually says something. Bill > - > billrishel > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, March 07, 2006 11:21 PM > Re: Use of quotes / BW. > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 3/7/2006 12:35:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:54:20 -0000 > > " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > Re: Use of quotes / BW. > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: Do you want me to reduce using quotes [' " ]? > > > > > > > > no, i was just wondering what is the effect of quotes on your > > > > speaking? changing tone, or some peculiar eye movement...or you > > > just > > > > use your finger to draw them in the air? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it is very subjective. > > > > > > > > > Consider following example: > > > > > > You say you don't exist! > > > > > > > > > v/s > > > > > > > > > " You " say... " you " don't exist! > > > > > > > You seem to be using quotes for emphasis. > > I believe it is more conventional to use > > *'s for that, as in: > > > > *You* say.... etc. > > > > But your point is well taken. The meaning > > can definitely shift depending on how > > the words are emphasized by the reader. > > > > > > For example, with: > > > > *I* am glad you are feeling better. > > > > the implication is that *I* am glad, > > even if others are not. > > > > while with: > > > > I am glad *you* are feeling better. > > > > the implication is that someone else > > (perhaps the writer?) is not feeling better. > > > > When people write they are mentally supplying > > the emphasis for themselves and it typically > > doesn't occur to them that the same words could > > be read with a different emphasis. Sometimes > > a reader will get a very different message than > > what was intended. Hence to dis-ambiguate by > > supplying the intended emphasis can avoid > > some misunderstandings. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Phil: > > > > I don't use quotes for emphasis in spiritual discussions. " I " use > them to > > imply that they are not meant to be taken literally, but are more > conventions of > > " speech " , like " reality " or " human consciousness " or " truth " . It > basically > > means, stop nit-picking and focus on the point. > > > > If it was your comment that I was responding to, > then I misunderstood. And yes, I use quotes in a > way that corresponds to what you seem to say here. > > I hadn't thought of it in quite the terms you put > it -- I guess I've never really articulated > as you have here. But now that you put it that way... > yeah... that's kinda it. It is a way of " diffusing " > nit-picky replies, as you say. > > BTW, something along similar lines is couching > ones words in " teflon wrappers " . So, for example, > saying... " It seems to me that... " and such > is a way of deflecting nit-picky replies. That it > " *seems to me* such-and-such " is indisputable. No > one can say that is wrong. Whereas if I were to > say... " such-and-such is the case " in absolute > terms it *would* be disputable. And to make a > " you statement " is even worse. You're always on > shaky ground when making a " you " statement > (by which I mean making a claim about the mental > state etc. of the other person). > > Another kind of " teflon wrapper " is the " kinda " > qualifier. There are many forms of it, as in > " sort of " , " something like " , " along the lines of " , > " in a manner such as " .... all of those put some > " slack " into one's statement... making it harder > for a retort to pin one down. It tends to make > the other have to look at the essence of what you > are saying, by not providing opportunities for > distraction in focusing on minor details that > are not really the point. You might say it is > a kind of " stealth mode " designed to foil the > *red herring attack*. > > > > Bill > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 LOL... yes, it clearly been seen that we are connected by more then just internet lines - billrishel Nisargadatta Wednesday, March 08, 2006 10:45 PM Re: Use of quotes / BW. if your a follower of bohm then you would well understand the indeterminate state and why people might use the terms that you have described below. >>>>>>>>>> Now that was bright! I love it when someone actually says something. Bill > - > billrishel > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, March 07, 2006 11:21 PM > Re: Use of quotes / BW. > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 3/7/2006 12:35:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:54:20 -0000 > > " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > Re: Use of quotes / BW. > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: Do you want me to reduce using quotes [' " ]? > > > > > > > > no, i was just wondering what is the effect of quotes on your > > > > speaking? changing tone, or some peculiar eye movement...or you > > > just > > > > use your finger to draw them in the air? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it is very subjective. > > > > > > > > > Consider following example: > > > > > > You say you don't exist! > > > > > > > > > v/s > > > > > > > > > " You " say... " you " don't exist! > > > > > > > You seem to be using quotes for emphasis. > > I believe it is more conventional to use > > *'s for that, as in: > > > > *You* say.... etc. > > > > But your point is well taken. The meaning > > can definitely shift depending on how > > the words are emphasized by the reader. > > > > > > For example, with: > > > > *I* am glad you are feeling better. > > > > the implication is that *I* am glad, > > even if others are not. > > > > while with: > > > > I am glad *you* are feeling better. > > > > the implication is that someone else > > (perhaps the writer?) is not feeling better. > > > > When people write they are mentally supplying > > the emphasis for themselves and it typically > > doesn't occur to them that the same words could > > be read with a different emphasis. Sometimes > > a reader will get a very different message than > > what was intended. Hence to dis-ambiguate by > > supplying the intended emphasis can avoid > > some misunderstandings. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Phil: > > > > I don't use quotes for emphasis in spiritual discussions. " I " use > them to > > imply that they are not meant to be taken literally, but are more > conventions of > > " speech " , like " reality " or " human consciousness " or " truth " . It > basically > > means, stop nit-picking and focus on the point. > > > > If it was your comment that I was responding to, > then I misunderstood. And yes, I use quotes in a > way that corresponds to what you seem to say here. > > I hadn't thought of it in quite the terms you put > it -- I guess I've never really articulated > as you have here. But now that you put it that way... > yeah... that's kinda it. It is a way of " diffusing " > nit-picky replies, as you say. > > BTW, something along similar lines is couching > ones words in " teflon wrappers " . So, for example, > saying... " It seems to me that... " and such > is a way of deflecting nit-picky replies. That it > " *seems to me* such-and-such " is indisputable. No > one can say that is wrong. Whereas if I were to > say... " such-and-such is the case " in absolute > terms it *would* be disputable. And to make a > " you statement " is even worse. You're always on > shaky ground when making a " you " statement > (by which I mean making a claim about the mental > state etc. of the other person). > > Another kind of " teflon wrapper " is the " kinda " > qualifier. There are many forms of it, as in > " sort of " , " something like " , " along the lines of " , > " in a manner such as " .... all of those put some > " slack " into one's statement... making it harder > for a retort to pin one down. It tends to make > the other have to look at the essence of what you > are saying, by not providing opportunities for > distraction in focusing on minor details that > are not really the point. You might say it is > a kind of " stealth mode " designed to foil the > *red herring attack*. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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