Guest guest Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 In a message dated 3/10/2006 12:44:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:58:19 -0000 " billrishel " <illusyn Silly ego game #3 (((Re: IPercpetion Without Thinking > Yes, I mean a realization beyond mind/memory that arrives as a knowing. This > is the only way realizations actually occur. Everything else is pure > mentation. I use the term " noticing " because it is not a perception or thought or > something that is 'done'. > Sorry for the confusion. I thought we were talking about the same thing. > > Phil Seems that " to notice " is a misleading choice of words, as -- at least for me -- that automatically implies *something* that is being noticed. In other words noticing implies a focus " on " something. Even so, I am still unclear what you mean when you say: " Yes, I mean a realization beyond mind/memory that arrives as a knowing. " If the mind is silent -- i.e. there are no thoughts -- and one is walking through a forest, hearing, seeing, smelling, but without any focus on any one thing... everything moving through rapid, subtle change... the sea of awareness in flux... ....how does that compare with what you describe as, " a realization beyond mind/memory that arrives as a knowing " ? For in the description I give there, nothing is " arriving " . It is as if awareness is everywhere and nowhere, all at once. Bill Well, I'm not sure. The closest I can personally identify with what you describe is what I call being in the moment. Senses fully active, aware of surroundings, but not mentating or generating any 'thought trains' from that sensory input, no recollection of thoughts/images. To me, focus must be placed somewhere. In the above case, it's placed on (outside) sensory input. In the case of what I'm talking about, the focus is entirely within. (Hoping we don't trigger the within discussion again.) I refer to this as 'looking', but there is nothing to look at. Consider it a void (Not necessarily the void that ego steps into when it approaches the dark night) This void is empty of thought and sensory data. There is nothing there for the mind to grasp, but the mind must remain still and alert. (This is the looking) However, this void is not empty. This is consciousness, inclusive of all awareness. All things can potentially be known with a still mind focussed on awareness. Awareness occurs entirely without volition as volition must be absent. Awareness is not a thought, but a knowing, which cannot be articulated since it has yet to be conceptualized. Mind can then gently grasp the knowing and proceed to devolve it into a concept. That's more thoroughly than I've ever tried to describe it, so it's the best I can do. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- 1069@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > ****** > > > > > > > > > > There we go. The Truth in a nutshell and Life goes on. > > That's why > > > > > I say live life to it's fullest in whatever way makes you > > happy. > > > > > Forget trying to detach yourself from it. It's futile. Know > > it > > > > all > > > > > to be an illusion and then move on. Enjoy it! > > > > > > > > > > " Silver " > > > > > > > > nice concept.... > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > As long as you believe that there is a 'you' to enjoy " it'.....you > > will live in fear. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > ********** > > > > I have to have a " me " to experience any joy in life. > > > No you don't......That is the only barrier to true enjoyment. > > > It wouldn't be > > any fun without me. You believe that solitary confinement for life is 'fun'? > > You believe that being inclosed in a hall of self-referential memories is 'fun'? > > What do you think that the Buddha was talking about when he called it suffering? > I welcome and embrace and relish fear. > > > No....you don't. > > > > Life is > > an awesome roller coaster ride. The problem is that there really is > > nothing to be afraid of so I have to try and convince myself that > > there is so that I get a thrill out of it, you know what I mean? > > > No......I don't. > > Bravado is merely another form of fear. > > > > > It's weird. For example, I wrecklessly took a walk through the > > forest one night knowing full well that there were bears out there. > > > That was not your choice. > > > > > I shouldn't have done that because I could have got killed. > > > That which was never born.....can never get killed. > > Oh A bear might eaten that meat that bears your name.......but not your true identity. > > (Which....by the way.....includes the bear.) > > > > It > > turned out that I got the scare of my life because I walked right > > into a bear's den. The bear and I shit ourselves. I scared it and > > it scared me and I think we both must have laughed so hard > > afterwards. > > You can trust me ....the bear did not laugh........ > > > > > We're both like, " Whew! That was close! " It got my > > heart pumping, that's for sure. I guess I'm a thrill seeker. I > > love looking Death in the eyes because that's when I feel most > > alive. And there needs to be a me there to experience it all. > > > > " Silver " > > > > > > No Silver............ there is no 'me'.....never was.......There is only one I. > > > toombaru ************** You're pretty annoying, you know that? Lol. I ignore what I know because I don't want to become annoying to others. Get it? " Silver " > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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