more from the Niz dialogues of I.A.T.chpts.:80-89

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80. Awareness

Questioner: Does it take time to realise the Self, or time cannot

help to realise? Is self-realisation a matter of time only, or does

it depend on factors other than time?

 

Maharaj: All waiting is futile. To depend on time to solve our

problems is self-delusion. The future, left to itself merely repeats

the past. Change can only happen now, never in the future.

 

Q: What brings about a change?

 

M: With crystal clarity see the need of change. This is all.

 

Q: Does self-realisation happen in matter, or beyond? Is it not an

experience depending on the body and the mind for its occurrence?

 

M: All experience is illusory, limited and temporal. Expect nothing

from experience. realisation by itself is not an experience, though

it may lead to a new dimension of experiences. Yet the new

experiences, however interesting, are not more real than the old.

Definitely realisation is not a new experience. It is the discovery

of the timeless factor in every experience. It is awareness, which

makes experience possible. Just like in all the colours light is the

colourless factor, so in every experience awareness is present, yet

it is not an experience.

 

Q: If awareness is not an experience, how can it be realised?

 

M: Awareness is ever there. It need not be realised. Open the

shutter of the mind, and it will be flooded with light.

 

Q: What is matter?

 

M: What you do not understand is matter.

 

Q: Science understands matter.

 

M: Science merely pushes back the frontiers of our ignorance.

 

Q: And what is nature?

 

M: The totality of conscious experiences is nature. As a conscious

self you are a part of nature. As awareness, you are beyond. Seeing

nature as mere consciousness is awareness.

 

Q: Are there levels of awareness?

 

M: There are levels in consciousness, but not in awareness. It is of

one block, homogeneous. Its reflection in the mind is love and

understanding. There are levels of clarity in understanding and

intensity in love, but not in their source. The source is simple and

single, but its gifts are infinite. Only do not take the gifts for

the source. realise yourself as the source and not as the river; that

is all.

 

Q: I am the river too.

 

M: Of course, you are. As an 'I am' you are the river, flowing

between the banks of the body. But you are also the source and the

ocean and the clouds in the sky. Wherever there is life and

consciousness, you are. Smaller than the smallest, bigger than the

biggest, you are, while all else appears.

 

Q: The sense of being and the sense of living -- are they one and

the same, or different?

 

M: The identity in space creates one, the continuity in time creates

the other.

 

Q: You said once that the seer, seeing and the seen are one single

thing, not three. To me the three are separate. I do not doubt your

words, only I do not understand.

 

M: Look closely and you will see that the seer and the seen appear

only when there is seeing. They are attributes of seeing. When you

say 'I am seeing this'. 'I am' and 'this' come with seeing, not

before. You cannot have an unseen 'this' nor an unseeing 'I am'.

 

Q: I can say: 'I do not see'.

 

M: The 'I am seeing this' has become 'l am seeing my not seeing',

or 'I am seeing darkness'. The seeing remains. In the triplicity: the

known, knowing and the knower, only the knowing is a fact. The 'I am'

and 'this' are doubtful. Who knows? What is known? There is no

certainty, except that there is knowing.

 

Q: Why am I sure of knowing, but not of the knower?

 

M: Knowing is a reflection of your true nature along with being and

loving. The knower and the known are added by the mind. It is in the

nature of the mind to create a subject-object duality, where there is

none.

 

Q: What is the cause of desire and fear?

 

M: Obviously, the memory of past pains and pleasures. There is no

great mystery about it. Conflict arises only when desire and fear

refer to the same object.

 

Q: How to put an end to memory?

 

M: It is neither necessary, nor possible. realise that all happens

in consciousness and you are the root, the source, the foundation of

consciousness. The world is but a succession of experiences and you

are what makes them conscious, and yet remain beyond all experience.

It is like the heat, the flame and the burning wood. The heat

maintains the flame, the flame consumes the wood. Without heat there

would be neither flame nor fuel. Similarly, without awareness there

would be no consciousness, nor life, which transforms matter into a

vehicle of consciousness.

 

Q: You maintain that without me there would be no world, and that

the world and my knowledge of the world are identical. Science has

come to a quite different conclusion: the world exists as something

concrete and continuous, while I am a by-product of biological

evolution of the nervous system, which is primarily not so much a

seat of consciousness, as a mechanism of survival as individual and

species. Yours is altogether a subjective view, while science tries

to describe everything in objective terms. Is this contradiction

inevitable?

 

M: The confusion is apparent and purely verbal. What is, is. It is

neither subjective nor objective. Matter and mind are not separate,

they are aspects of one energy. Look at the mind as a function of

matter and you have science; look at matter as the product of the

mind and you have religion.

 

Q: But what is true? What comes first, mind or matter?

 

M: Neither comes first. for neither appears alone. Matter is the

shape, mind is the name. Together they make the world. Pervading and

transcending is Reality, pure being -- awareness -- bliss, your very

essence.

 

Q: All I know is the stream of consciousness, an endless succession

of events. The river of time flows, bringing and carrying away

relentlessly. Transformation of the future into past is going on all

the time.

 

M: Are you not the victim of your language? You speak about the flow

of time, as if you were stationary. But the events you have witnessed

yesterday somebody else may see tomorrow. It is you who are in

movement and not time. Stop moving and time will cease.

 

Q: What does it mean -- time will cease?

 

M: Past and future will merge in the eternal now.

 

Q: But what does it mean in actual experience? How do you know that

for you time has ceased?

 

M: It may mean that past and future do not matter any more. It may

also mean that all that happened and will happen becomes an open book

to be read at will.

 

Q: I can imagine a sort of cosmic memory, accessible with some

training. But how can the future be known? The unexpected is

inevitable.

 

M: What is unexpected on one level may be certain to happen, when

seen from a higher level After all, we are within the limits of the

mind. In reality nothing happens, there is no past nor future; all

appears and nothing is.

 

Q: What does it mean, nothing is? Do you turn blank, or go to

sleep? Or do you dissolve the world and keep us all in abeyance,

until we are brought back to life at the next flicker of your thought?

 

M: Oh, no, it is not that bad. The world of mind and matter, of

names and shapes, continues, but it does not matter to me at all. It

is like having a shadow. It is there -- following me wherever I go,

but not hindering me in any way. It remains a world of experiences,

but not of names and forms related to me by desires and fears. The

experiences are qualityless, pure experiences, if I may say so. I

call them experiences for the lack of a better word. They are like

the waves on the surface of the ocean, the ever-present, but not

affecting its peaceful power.

 

Q: You mean to say an experience can be nameless, formless,

undefined?

 

M: In the beginning all experience is such. It is only desire and

fear, born of memory, that give it name and form and separate it from

other experiences. It is not a conscious experience, for it is not in

opposition to other experiences, yet it is an experience all the same.

 

Q: If it is not conscious, why talk about it?

 

M: Most of your experiences are unconscious. The conscious ones are

very few. You are unaware of the fact because to you only the

conscious ones count. Become aware of the unconscious .

 

Q: Can one be aware of the unconscious? How is it done?

 

M: Desire and fear are the obscuring and distorting factors. When

mind is free of them the unconscious becomes accessible.

 

Q: Does it mean that the unconscious becomes conscious?

 

M: It is rather the other way round. The conscious becomes one with

the unconscious. The distinction ceases, whichever way you look at it.

 

Q: I am puzzled. How can one be aware and yet unconscious?

 

M: Awareness is not limited to consciousness. It is of all that is.

Consciousness is of duality. There is no duality in awareness. It is

one single block of pure cognition. In the same way one can talk of

the pure being and pure creation -- nameless, formless, silent and

yet absolutely real, powerful, effective. Their being indescribable

does not affect them in the least. While they are unconscious, they

are essential. The conscious cannot change fundamentally, it can only

modify. Any thing, to change, must pass through death, through

obscuration and dissolution. Gold jewellery must be melted down

before it is cast into another shape. What refuses to die cannot be

reborn.

 

Q: Barring the death of the body, how does one die?

 

M: Withdrawal, aloofness, letting go is death. To live fully, death

is essential; every ending makes a new beginning. On the other hand,

do understand, that only the dead can die, not the living. That which

is alive in you, is immortal.

 

Q: From where does desire draw its energy?

 

M: Its name and shape it draws from memory. The energy flows from

the source.

 

Q: Some desires are altogether wrong. How can wrong desires flow

from a sublime source?

 

M: The source is neither right nor wrong. Nor is desire by itself

right or wrong. It is nothing but striving for happiness. Having

identified yourself with a speck of a body you feel lost and search

desperately for the sense of fullness and completeness you call

happiness.

 

Q: When did I lose it? I never had it.

 

M: You had it before you woke up this morning. Go beyond your

consciousness and you will find it.

 

Q: How am I to go beyond?

 

M: You know it already; do it.

 

Q: That's what you say. I know nothing about it.

 

M: Yet I repeat -- you know it. Do it. Go beyond, back to your

normal, natural, supreme state.

 

Q: I'm puzzled.

 

M: A speck in the eye makes you think you are blind. Wash it out and

look.

 

Q: I do look! I see only darkness.

 

M: Remove the speck and your eyes will be flooded with light. The

light is there -- waiting. The eyes are there -- ready. The darkness

you see is but the shadow of the tiny speck. Get rid of it and come

back to your natural state.

 

81. Root Cause of Fear

Maharaj: Where do you come from?

 

Questioner: I am from the United States, but I live mostly in Europe.

To India I came recently. I was in Rishikesh, in two Ashrams. I was

taught meditation and breathing.

 

M: How long were you there?

 

Q: Eight days in one, six days in another. I was not happy there

and I left. Then for three weeks I was with the Tibetan Lamas. But

they were all wrapped up in formulas and rituals.

 

M: And what was the net result of it all?

 

Q: Definitely there was an increase of energy. But before I left

for Rishikesh, I did some fasting and dieting at a Nature Cure

Sanatorium at Pudukkotai in South India. It has done me enormous good.

 

M: Maybe the access of energy was due to better health.

 

Q: I cannot say. But as a result of all these attempts some fires

started burning in various places in my body and I heard chants and

voices where there were none.

 

M: And what are you after now?

 

Q: Well, what are we all after? Some truth, some inner certainty,

some real happiness. In the various schools of self-realisation there

is so much talk of awareness, that one ends with the impression that

awareness itself is the supreme reality. Is it so? The body is looked

after by the brain, the brain is illumined by consciousness;

awareness watches over consciousness; is there anything beyond

awareness?

 

M: How do you know that you are aware?

 

Q: I feel that I am. I cannot express it otherwise.

 

M: When you follow it up carefully from brain through consciousness

to awareness, you find that the sense of duality persists. When you

go beyond awareness, there is a state of non-duality, in which there

is no cognition, only pure being, which may be as well called non-

being, if by being you mean being something in particular.

 

Q: What you call pure being is it universal being, being everything?

 

M: Everything implies a collection of particulars. In pure being the

very idea of the particular is absent.

 

Q: Is there any relationship between pure being and particular

being?

 

M: What relationship can there be between what is and what merely

appears to be? Is there any relationship between the ocean and its

waves? The real enables the unreal to appear and causes it to

disappear. the succession of transient moments creates the illusion

of time, but the timeless reality of pure being is not in movement,

for all movement requires a motionless background. It is itself the

background. Once you have found it in yourself, you know that you had

never lost that independent being, independent of all divisions and

separations. But don't look for it in consciousness, you will not

find it there. Don't look for it anywhere, for nothing contains it.

On the contrary, it contains everything and manifests everything. It

is like the daylight that makes everything visible while itself

remaining invisible.

 

Q: Sir, of what use to me is your telling me that reality cannot be

found in consciousness? Where else am I to look for it? How do you

apprehend it?

 

M: It is quite simple. If I ask you what is the taste of your mouth

all you can do is to say: it is neither sweet nor bitter, nor sour

nor astringent; it is what remains when all these tastes are not.

Similarly, when all distinctions and reactions are no more, what

remains is reality, simple and solid.

 

Q: All that I understand is that I am in the grip of a

beginningless illusion. And I do not see how it can come to an end.

If it could, it would -- long ago. I must have had as many

opportunities in the past as I shall have in the future. What could

not happen cannot happen. Or, if it did, it could not last. Our very

deplorable state after all these untold millions of years carries, at

best, the promise of ultimate extinction, or, which is worse, the

threat of an endless and meaningless repetition.

 

M: What proof have you that your present state is beginningless and

endless? How were you before you were born? How will you be after

death? And of your present state -- how much do you know? You do not

know even what was your condition before you woke up this morning?

You only know a little of your present state and from it you draw

conclusions for all times and places. You may be just dreaming and

imagining your dream to be eternal.

 

Q: Calling it a dream does not change the situation. I repeat my

question: what hope is left which the eternity behind me could not

fulfil? Why should my future be different from my past?

 

M: In your fevered state, you project a past and a future and take

them to be real. In fact, you know only your present moment. Why not

investigate what is now, instead of questioning the imaginary past

and future? Your present state is neither beginningless nor endless.

If is over in a flash. Watch carefully from where it comes and where

it goes. You will soon discover the timeless reality behind it.

 

Q: Why have I not done it before?

 

M: Just as every wave subsides into the ocean, so does every moment

return to its source. realisation consists in discovering the source

and abiding there.

 

Q: Who discovers?

 

M: The mind discovers.

 

Q: Does it find the answers?

 

M: It finds that it is left without questions, that no answers are

needed.

 

Q: Being born is a fact. Dying is another fact. How do they appear

to the witness?

 

M: A child was born; a man has died -- just events in the course of

time.

 

Q: Is there any progress in the witness? Does awareness evolve?

 

M: What is seen may undergo many changes when the light of awareness

is focussed on it, but it is the object that changes, not the light.

Plants grow in sunlight, but the sun does not grow. By themselves

both the body and the witness are motionless, but when brought

together in the mind, both appear to move.

 

Q: Yes, I can see that what moves and changes is the 'I am' only.

Is the 'I am' needed at all?

 

M: Who needs it? It is there -- now. It had a beginning it will have

an end.

 

Q: What remains when the `I am' goes?

 

M: What does not come and go -- remains. It is the ever greedy mind

that creates ideas of progress and evolution towards perfection. It

disturbs and talks of order, destroys and seeks security.

 

Q: Is there progress in destiny, in karma?

 

M: Karma is only a store of unspent energies, of unfulfilled desires

and fears not understood. The store is being constantly replenished

by new desires and fears. It need not be so for ever. Understand the

root cause of your fears -- estrangement from yourself: and of

desires -- the longing for the self, and your karma will dissolve

like a dream. Between earth and heaven life goes on. Nothing is

affected, only bodies grow and decay.

 

Q: Between the person and the witness, what is the relation?

 

M: There can be no relation between them because they are one. Don't

separate and don't look for relationship.

 

Q: If the seer and the seen are one, how did the separation occur?

 

M: Fascinated by names and forms, which are by their very nature

distinct and diverse, you distinguish what is natural and separate

what is one. The world is rich in diversity, but your feeling strange

and frightened is due to misapprehension. It is the body that is in

danger, not you.

 

Q: I can see that the basic biological anxiety, the flight

instinct, takes many shapes and distorts my thoughts and feelings.

But how did this anxiety come into being?

 

M: It is a mental state caused by the 'I-am-the-body' idea. It can

be removed by the contrary idea: 'I-am-not-the-body'. Both the ideas

are false, but one removes the other. realise that no ideas are your

own, they all come to you from outside. You must think it all out for

yourself, become yourself the object of your meditation. The effort

to understand yourself is Yoga. Be a Yogi, give your life to it,

brood, wonder, search, till you come to the root of error and to the

truth beyond the error.

 

Q: In meditation, who meditates, the person or the witness?

 

M: Meditation is a deliberate attempt to pierce into the higher

states of consciousness and finally go beyond it. The art of

meditation is the art of shifting the focus of attention to ever

subtler levels, without losing one's grip on the levels left behind.

In a way it is like having death under control. One begins with the

lowest levels: social circumstances, customs and habits; physical

surroundings, the posture and the breathing of the body, the senses,

their sensations and perceptions; the mind, its thoughts and

feelings; until the entire mechanism of personality is grasped and

firmly held. The final stage of meditation is reached when the sense

of identity goes beyond the 'I-am-so-and-so', beyond 'so-l-am',

beyond 'I-am-the-witness-only', beyond 'there-is', beyond all ideas

into the impersonally personal pure being. But you must be energetic

when you take to meditation. It is definitely not a part-time

occupation. Limit your interests and activities to what is needed for

you and your dependents' barest needs. Save all your energies and

time for breaking the wall your mind had built around you. Believe

me, you will not regret.

 

Q: How do I come to know that my experience is universal?

 

M: At the end of your meditation all is known directly, no proofs

whatsoever are required. Just as every drop of the ocean carries the

taste of the ocean, so does every moment carry the taste of eternity.

Definitions and descriptions have their place as useful incentives

for further search, but you must go beyond them into what is

undefinable and indescribable, except in negative terms.

 

After all, even universality and eternity are mere concepts, the

opposites of being place and time-bound. Reality is not a concept,

nor the manifestation of a concept. It has nothing to do with

concepts. Concern yourself with your mind, remove its distortions and

impurities. Once you had the taste of your own self, you will find it

everywhere and at all times. Therefore, it is so important that you

should come to it. Once you know it, you will never lose it.

 

But you must give yourself the opportunity through intensive, even

arduous meditation.

 

Q: What exactly do you want me to do?

 

M: Give your heart and mind to brooding over the 'I am', what is it,

how is it, what is its source, its life, its meaning. It is very much

like digging a well. You reject all that is not water, till you reach

the life-giving spring.

 

Q: How shall I know that I am moving in the right direction?

 

M: By your progress in intentness, in clarity and devotion to the

task.

 

Q: We, Europeans, find it very difficult to keep quiet. The world

is too much with us.

 

M: Oh, no, you are dreamers too. We differ only in the contents of

our dreams. You are after perfection -- in the future. We are intent

on finding it -- in the now. The limited only is perfectible. The

unlimited is already perfect. You are perfect, only you don't know

it. Learn to know yourself and you will discover wonders.

 

All you need is already within you, only you must approach your self

with reverence and love. Self-condemnation and self-distrust are

grievous errors. Your constant flight from pain and search for

pleasure is a sign of love you bear for your self, all I plead with

you is this: make love of your self perfect. Deny yourself nothing --

glue your self infinity and eternity and discover that you do not

need them; you are beyond.

 

82. Absolute Perfection is Here and Now

Questioner: The war is on. What is your attitude to it?

 

Maharaj: In some place or other, in some form or other, the war is

always on. Was there a time when there was no war? Some say it is the

will of God. Some say it is God's play. It is another way of saying

that wars are inevitable and nobody is responsible.

 

Q: But what is your own attitude?

 

M: Why impose attitudes on me? I have no attitude to call my own.

 

Q: Surely somebody is responsible for this horrible and senseless

carnage. Why do people kill each other so readily?

 

M: Search for the culprit within. The ideas of 'me' and 'mine' are

at the root of all conflict. Be free of them and you will be out of

conflict.

 

Q: What of it that I am out of conflict? It will not affect the

war. If I am the cause of war, I am ready to be destroyed. Yet, it

stands to reason that the disappearance of a thousand like me will

not stop wars. They did not start with my birth nor will end with my

death. I am not Responsible. Who is?

 

M: Strife and struggle are a part of existence. Why don't you

enquire who is responsible for existence?

 

Q: Why do you say that existence and conflict are inseparable? Can

there be no existence without strife? I need not fight others to be

myself.

 

M: You fight others all the time for your survival as a separate

body-mind, a particular name and form. To live you must destroy. From

the moment you were conceived you started a war with your

environment -- a merciless war of mutual extermination, until death

sets you free.

 

Q: My question remains unanswered. You are merely describing what I

know -- life and its sorrows. But who is responsible, you do not say.

When I press you, you throw the blame on God, or karma, or on my own

greed and fear -- which merely invites further questions. Give me the

final answer.

 

M: The final answer is this: nothing is. All is a momentary

appearance in the field of the universal consciousness; continuity as

name and form is a mental formation only, easy to dispel.

 

Q: I am asking about the immediate, the transitory, the appearance.

Here is a picture of a child killed by soldiers. It is a fact --

staring at you. You cannot deny it. Now, who is responsible for the

death of the child?

 

M: Nobody and everybody. The world is what it contains and each

thing affects all others. We all kill the child and we all die with

it. Every event has innumerable causes and produces numberless

effects. It is useless to keep accounts, nothing is traceable.

 

Q: Your people speak of karma and retribution.

 

M: It is merely a gross approximation: in reality we are all

creators and creatures of each other, causing and bearing each

other's burden.

 

Q: So, the innocent suffers for the guilty?

 

M: In our ignorance we are innocent; in our actions we are guilty.

We sin without knowing and suffer without understanding. Our only

hope: to stop, to look, to understand and to get out of the traps of

memory. For memory feeds imagination and imagination generates desire

and fear.

 

Q: Why do I imagine at all?

 

M: The light of consciousness passes through the film of memory and

throws pictures on your brain. Because of the deficient and

disordered state of your brain, what you perceive is distorted and

coloured by feelings of like and dislike. Make your thinking orderly

and free from emotional overtones, and you will see people and things

as they are, with clarity and charity.

 

The witness of birth, life and death is one and the same. It is the

witness of pain and of love. For while the existence in limitation

and separation is sorrowful, we love it. We love it and hate it at

the same time. We fight, we kill, we destroy life and property and

yet we are affectionate and self-sacrificing. We nurse the child

tenderly and orphan it too. Our life is full of contradictions. Yet

we cling to it. This clinging is at the root of everything. Still, it

is entirely superficial. We hold on to something or somebody, with

all our might and next moment we forget it; like a child that shapes

its mud-pies and abandons them light-heartedly. Touch them -- it will

scream with anger, divert the child and he forgets them. For our life

is now, and the love of it is now. We love variety, the play of pain

and pleasure, we are fascinated by contrasts. For this we need the

opposites and their apparent separation. We enjoy them for a time and

then get tired and crave for the peace and silence of pure being. The

cosmic heart beats ceaselessly. I am the witness and the heart too.

 

Q: I can see the picture, but who is the painter? Who is

responsible for this terrible and yet adorable experience?

 

M: The painter is in the picture. You separate the painter from the

picture and look for him. Don't separate and don't put false

questions. Things are as they are and nobody in particular is

responsible. The idea of personal responsibility comes from the

illusion of agency. 'Somebody must have done it, somebody is

responsible'. Society as it is now, with its framework of laws and

customs, is based on the idea of a separate and responsible

personality, but this is not the only form a society can take. There

may be other forms, where the sense of separation is weak and

responsibility diffused.

 

Q: An individual with a weak sense of personality -- is he nearer

self-realisation?

 

M: Take the case of a young child. The sense of 'I-am' is not yet

formed, the personality is rudimentary. The obstacles to self

knowledge are few, but the power and the clarity of awareness, its

width and depth are lacking. In the course of years awareness will

grow stronger, but also the latent personality will emerge and

obscure and complicate. Just as the harder the wood, the hotter the

flame, so the stronger the personality, brighter the light generated

from its destruction.

 

Q: Have you no problems?

 

M: I do have problems. I told you already. To be, to exist with a

name and form is painful, yet I love it.

 

Q: But you love everything!

 

M: In existence everything is contained. My very nature is to love;

even the painful is lovable.

 

Q: It does not make it less painful. Why not remain in the

unlimited?

 

M: It is the instinct of exploration, the love of the unknown, that

brings me into existence. It is in the nature of being to see

adventure in becoming, as it is in the very nature of becoming to

seek peace in being. This alteration of being and becoming is

inevitable; but my home is beyond.

 

Q: Is your home in God?

 

M: To love and worship a god is also ignorance. My home is beyond

all notions, however sublime.

 

Q: But God is not a notion! It is the reality beyond existence.

 

M: You may use any word you like. Whatever you may think of am

beyond it.

 

Q: Once you know your home, why not stay in it? What takes you out

of it?

 

M: Out of love for corporate existence one is born and once born,

one gets involved in destiny. Destiny is inseparable from becoming.

The desire to be the particular makes you into a person with all its

personal past and future. Look at some great man, what a wonderful

man he was! And yet how troubled was his life and limited its fruits.

How utterly dependent is the personality of man and how indifferent

is its world. And yet we love it and protect it for its very

insignificance.

 

Q: The war is on and there is chaos and you are being asked to take

charge of a feeding centre. You are given what is needed, it is only

a question of getting through the job. Will you refuse it?

 

M: To work, or not to work, is one and the same to me. I may take

charge, or may not. There may be others, better endowed for such

tasks, than I am -- professional caterers for instance. But my

attitude is different. I do not look at death as a calamity as I do

not rejoice at the birth of a child. The child is out for trouble

while the dead is out of it. Attachment to life is attachment to

sorrow. We love what gives us pain. Such is our nature.

 

For me the moment of death will be a moment of jubilation, not of

fear. I cried when I was born and I shall die laughing.

 

Q: What is the change in consciousness at the moment of death?

 

M: What change do you expect? When the film projection ends all

remains the same as when it started. The state before you were born

was also the state after death, if you remember.

 

Q: I remember nothing.

 

M: Because you never tried. It is only a question of tuning in the

mind. It requires training, of course.

 

Q: Why don't you take part in social work?

 

M: But I am doing nothing else all the time! And what is the social

work you want me to do? Patchwork is not for me. My stand is clear:

produce to distribute, feed before you eat, give before you take,

think of others, before you think of yourself. Only a selfless

society based on sharing can be stable and happy. This is the only

practical solution. If you do not want it -- fight.

 

Q: It is all a matter of gunas. Where tamas and rajas predominate,

there must be war. Where sattva rules, there will be peace.

 

M: Put it whichever way you like, it comes to the same. Society is

built on motives. Put goodwill into the foundations and you will not

need specialised social workers.

 

Q: The world is getting better.

 

M: The world had all the time to get better, yet it did not. What

hope is there for the future? Of course, there have been and will be

periods of harmony and peace, when sattva was in ascendance, but

things get destroyed by their own perfection. A perfect society is

necessarily static and, therefore, it stagnates and decays. From the

summit all roads lead downwards. Societies are like people -- they

are born, they grow to some point of relative perfection and then

decay and die.

 

Q: Is there not a state of absolute perfection which does not decay?

 

M: Whatever has a beginning must have an end. In the timeless all is

perfect, here and now.

 

Q: But shall we reach the timeless in due course?

 

M: In due course we shall come back to the starting point. Time

cannot take us out of time, as space cannot take us out of space. All

you get by waiting is more waiting. Absolute perfection is here and

now, not in some future, near or far. The secret is in action -- here

and now. It is your behaviour that blinds you to yourself. Disregard

whatever you think yourself to be and act as if you were absolutely

perfect -- whatever your idea of perfection may be. All you need is

courage.

 

Q: Where do I find such courage?

 

M: In yourself, of course. Look within.

 

Q: Your grace will help

 

M: My grace is telling you now: look within. All you need you have.

Use it. Behave as best you know, do what you think you should. Don't

be afraid of mistakes; you can always correct them, only intentions

matter. The shape things take is not within your power; the motives

of your actions are.

 

Q: How can action born from imperfection lead to perfection?

 

M: Action does not lead to perfection; perfection is expressed in

action. As long as you judge yourself by your expressions give them

utmost attention; when you realise your own being your behaviour will

be perfect -- spontaneously.

 

Q: If I am timelessly perfect, then why was I born at all? What is

the purpose of this life?

 

M: It is like asking: what does it profit gold to be made into an

ornament? The ornament gets the colour and the beauty of gold; gold

is not enriched. Similarly, reality expressed in action makes the

action meaningful and beautiful.

 

Q: What does the real gain through its expressions?

 

M: What can it gain? Nothing whatsoever. But it is in the nature of

love to express itself, to affirm itself, to overcome difficulties.

Once you have understood that the world is love in action, you will

look at it quite differently. But first your attitude to suffering

must change. Suffering is primarily a call for attention, which

itself is a movement of love. More than happiness, love wants growth,

the widening and deepening of consciousness and being. Whatever

prevents becomes a cause of pain, and love does not shirk from pain.

Sattva, the energy that works for righteousness and orderly

development, must not be thwarted. When obstructed it turns against

itself and becomes destructive. Whenever love is withheld and

suffering allowed to spread, war becomes inevitable. Our indifference

to our neighbour's sorrow brings suffering to our door.

 

83. The True Guru

Questioner: You were saying the other day that at the root of your

realisation was the trust in your Guru. He assured you that you were

already the Absolute Reality and there was nothing more to be done.

You trusted him and left it at that, without straining, without

striving. Now, my question is: without trust in your Guru would you

have realised? After all, what you are, You are, whether your mind

trusts or not; would doubt obstruct the action of the Guru's words

and make them inoperative?

 

Maharaj: You have said it -- they would have been made inoperative --

for a time.

 

Q: And what would happen to the energy, or power in the Guru's

words?

 

M: It would remain latent, unmanifested. But the entire question is

based on a misunderstanding. The master, the disciple, the love and

trust between them, these are one fact, not so many independent

facts. Each is a part of the other. Without love and trust there

would have been no Guru nor disciple, and no relationship between

them. It is like pressing a switch to light an electric lamp. It is

because the lamp, the wiring, the switch, the transformer, the

transmission lines and the power house form a single whole, that you

get the light. Any one factor missing and there would be no light.

You must not separate the inseparable. Words do not create facts;

they either describe them or distort. The fact is always non-verbal.

 

Q: I still do not understand; can the Guru's word remain

unfulfilled or will it invariably prove true?

 

M: Words of a realised man never miss their purpose. They wait for

the right conditions to arise which may take some time, and. this is

natural, for there is a season for sowing and a season for

harvesting. But the word of a Guru is a seed that cannot perish. Of

course, the Guru must be a real one, who is beyond the body and the

mind, beyond consciousness itself, beyond space and time, beyond

duality and unity, beyond understanding and description. The good

people who have read a lot and have a lot to say, may teach you many

useful things, but they are not the real Gurus whose words invariably

come true. They also may tell you that you are the ultimate reality

itself, but what of it?

 

Q: Nevertheless, if for some reason I happen to trust them and

obey, shall I be the loser?

 

M: If you are able to trust and obey, you will soon find your real

Guru, or rather, he will find you.

 

Q: Does every knower of the Self become a Guru, or can one be a

knower of Reality without being able to take others to it?

 

M: If you know what you teach, you can teach what you know, Here

seership and teachership are one. But the Absolute Reality is beyond

both. The self-styled Gurus talk of ripeness and effort, of merits

and achievements, of destiny and grace; all these are mere mental

formations, projections of an addicted mind. Instead of helping, they

obstruct.

 

Q: How can I make out whom to follow and whom to mistrust?

 

M: Mistrust all, until you are convinced. The true Guru will never

humiliate you, nor will he estrange you from yourself. He will

constantly bring you back to the fact of your inherent perfection and

encourage you to seek within. He knows you need nothing, not even

him, and is never tired of reminding you. But the self appointed Guru

is more concerned with himself than with his disciples.

 

Q: You said that reality is beyond the knowledge and the teaching

of the real. Is not the knowledge of reality the supreme itself and

teaching the proof of its attainment?

 

M: The knowledge of the real, or the self, is a state of mind.

Teaching another is a movement in duality. They concern the mind

only; sattva is a Guna all the same.

 

Q: What is real then?

 

M: He who knows the mind as non-realised and realised, who knows

ignorance and knowledge as states of mind, he is the real. When you

are given diamonds mixed with gravel, you may either miss the

diamonds or find them. It is the seeing that matters. Where is the

greyness of the gravel and the beauty of the diamond, without the

power to see? The known is but a shape and knowledge is but a name.

The knower is but a state of mind. The real is beyond.

 

Q: Surely, objective knowledge and ideas of things and self

knowledge are not one and the same thing. One needs a brain, the

other does not.

 

M: For the purpose of discussion you can arrange words and give them

meaning, but the fact remains that all knowledge is a form of

ignorance. The most accurate map is yet only paper. All knowledge is

in memory; it is only recognition, while reality is beyond the

duality of the knower and the known.

 

Q: Then by what is reality known?

 

M: How misleading is your language! You assume, unconsciously, that

reality also is approachable through knowledge. And then you will

bring in a knower of reality beyond reality! Do understand that to

be, reality need not be known. Ignorance and knowledge are in the

mind, not in the real.

 

Q: If there is no such thing as the knowledge of the real, then how

do I reach it?

 

M: You need not reach out for what is already with you. Your very

reaching out makes you miss it. Give up the idea that you have not

found it and just let it come into the focus of direct perception,

here and now, by removing all that is of the mind.

 

Q: When all that can go, goes, what remains?

 

M: Emptiness remains, awareness remains, pure light of the conscious

being remains. It is like asking what remains of a room when all the

furniture is removed? A most serviceable room remains. And when even

the walls are pulled down, space remains. Beyond space and time is

the here and the now of reality.

 

Q: Does the witness remain?

 

M: As long as there is consciousness, its witness is also there. The

two appear and disappear together.

 

Q: If the witness too is transient, why is he given so much

importance?

 

M: Just to break the spell of the known, the illusion that only the

perceivable is real.

 

Q: Perception is primary, the witness -- secondary.

 

M: This is the heart of the matter. As long as you believe that only

the outer world is real, you remain its slave. To become free, your

attention must be drawn to the 'I am', the witness. Of course, the

knower and the known are one not two, but to break the spell of the

known the knower must be brought to the forefront. Neither is

primary, both are reflections in memory of the ineffable experience,

ever new and ever now, untranslatable, quicker than the mind.

 

Q: Sir, I am an humble seeker, wandering from Guru to Guru in

search of release. My mind is sick, burning with desire, frozen with

fear. My days flit by, red with pain, grey with boredom. My age is

advancing, my health decaying, my future dark and frightening. At

this rate I shall live in sorrow and die in despair. Is there any

hope for me? Or have I come too late?

 

M: Nothing is wrong with you, but the ideas you have of yourself are

altogether wrong. It is not you who desires, fears and suffers, it is

the person built on the foundation of your body by circumstances and

influences. You are not that person. This must be clearly established

in your mind and never lost sight of. Normally, it needs a prolonged

sadhana, years of austerities and meditation.

 

Q: My mind is weak and vacillating. I have neither the strength nor

the tenacity for sadhana. My case, is hopeless.

 

M: In a way yours is a most hopeful case. There is an alternative to

sadhana, which is trust. If you cannot have the conviction born from

fruitful search, then take advantage of my discovery, which I am so

eager to share with you. I can see with the utmost clarity that you

have never been, nor are, nor will be estranged from realty, that you

are the fullness of perfection here and now and that nothing can

deprive you of your heritage, of what you are. You are in no way

different from me, only you do not know it. You do not know what you

are and therefore you imagine your self to be what you are not. Hence

desires and fear and overwhelming despair. And meaningless activity

in order to escape.

 

Just trust me and live by trusting me. I shall not mislead you. You

are the Supreme Reality beyond the world and its creator, beyond

consciousness and its witness, beyond all assertions and denials.

Remember it, think of it, act on it. Abandon all sense of separation,

see yourself in all and act accordingly. With action bliss will come

and, with bliss, conviction. After all, you doubt yourself because

you are in sorrow. Happiness, natural, spontaneous and lasting cannot

be imagined. Either it is there, or it is not. Once you begin to

experience the peace, love and happiness which need no outer causes,

all your doubts will dissolve. Just catch hold of what I told you and

live by it.

 

Q: You are telling me to live by memory?

 

M: You are living by memory anyhow. I am merely asking you to

replace the old memories by the memory of what I told you. As you

were acting on your old memories, act on the new one. Don't be

afraid. For some time there is bound to be a conflict between the old

and the new, but if you put yourself resolutely on the side of the

new, the strife will soon come to an end and you will realise the

effortless state of being oneself, of not being deceived by desires

and fears born of illusion.

 

Q: Many Gurus have the habit of giving tokens of their grace --

their head cloth, or their sticks, or begging bowl, or robe, thus

transmitting or confirming the self-realisation of their disciples. I

can see no value in such practices. It is not self-realisation that

is transmitted, but self-importance. Of what earthly use is being

told something very flattering, but not true? On one hand you are

warning me against the many self-styled Gurus, on the other you want

me to trust you. Why do you claim to be an exception?

 

M: I do not ask you to trust me. Trust my words and remember them, I

want your happiness, not mine. Distrust those who put a distance

between you and your true being and offer themselves as a go-between.

I do nothing of the kind. I do not even make any promises. I merely

say: if you trust my words and put them to test, you will for

yourself discover how absolutely true they are. If you ask for a

proof before you venture, I can only say: I am the proof. I did trust

my teacher's words and kept them in my mind and I did find that he

was right, that I was, am and shall be the Infinite Reality,

embracing all, transcending all.

 

As you say, you have neither the time nor the energy for lengthy

practices. I offer you an alternative. Accept my words on trust and

live anew, or live and die in sorrow.

 

Q: It seems too good to be true.

 

M: Don't be misled by the simplicity of the advice. '\very few are

those who have the courage to trust the innocent and the simple. To

know that you are a prisoner of your mind, that you live in an

imaginary world of your own creation is the dawn of wisdom. To want

nothing of it, to be ready to abandon it entirely, is earnestness.

Only such earnestness, born of true despair, will make you trust me.

 

Q: Have l not suffered enough?

 

M: Suffering has made you dull, unable to see its enormity. Your

first task is to see the sorrow in you and around you; your next to

long intensely for liberation. The very intensity of longing will

guide you; you need no other guide.

 

Q: Suffering has made me dull, indifferent even to itself.

 

M: Maybe it is not sorrow but pleasure that made you dull.

Investigate.

 

Q: Whatever may be the cause; I am dull. I have neither the will

nor the energy.

 

M: Oh, no. You have enough for the first step. And each step will

generate enough energy for the next. Energy comes with confidence and

confidence comes with experience.

 

Q: Is it right to change Gurus?

 

M: Why not change? Gurus are like milestones? It is natural to move

on from one to another. Each tells you the direction and the

distance, while the sadguru, the eternal Guru, is the road itself.

Once you realise that the road is the goal and that you are always on

the road, not to reach a goal, but to enjoy its beauty and its

wisdom, life ceases to be a task and becomes natural and simple, in

itself an ecstasy.

 

Q: So, there is no need to worship, to pray, to practice Yoga?

 

M: A little of daily sweeping, washing and bathing can do no harm.

Self-awareness tells you at every step what needs be done. When all

is done, the mind remains quiet.

 

Now you are in the waking state, a person with name and shape, joys

and sorrows. The person was not there before you were born, nor will

be there after you die. Instead of struggling with the person to make

it become what it is not, why not go beyond the waking state and

leave the personal life altogether? It does not mean the extinction

of the person; it means only seeing it in right perspective.

 

Q: One more question. You said that before I was born I was one

with the pure being of reality; if so, who decided that I should be

born?

 

M: In reality you were never born and never shall die. But now you

imagine that you are, or have a body and you ask what has brought

about this state. Within the limits of illusion the answer is: desire

born from memory attracts you to a body and makes you think as one

with it. But this is true only from the relative point of view. In

fact, there is no body, nor a world to contain it; there is only a

mental condition, a dream-like state, easy to dispel by questioning

its reality.

 

Q: After you die, will you come again? If I live long enough, will

I meet you again.

 

M: To you the body is real, to me there is none. I, as you see me,

exist in your imagination only. Surely, you will see me again, if and

when you need me. It does not affect me, as the Sun is not affected

by sunrises and sunsets. Because it is not affected, it is certain to

be there when needed.

 

You are bent on knowledge, I am not. I do not have that sense of

insecurity that makes you crave to know. I am curious, like a child

is curious. But there is no anxiety to make me seek refuge in

knowledge. Therefore, I am not concerned whether I shall be reborn,

or how long will the world last. These are questions born of fear.

 

84. Your Goal is Your Guru

Questioner: You were telling us that there are many self-styled

Gurus, but a real Guru is very rare. There are many jnani who imagine

themselves realised, but all they have is book knowledge and a high

opinion of themselves. Sometimes they impress, even fascinate,

attract disciples and make them waste their time in useless

practices. After some years, when the disciple takes stock of

himself, he finds no change. When he complains to his teacher, he

gets the usual rebuke that he did not try hard enough. The blame is

on the lack of faith and love in the heart of the disciple, while in

reality the blame is on the Guru, who had no business in accepting

disciples and raising their hopes. How to protect oneself from such

Gurus?

 

Maharaj: Why be so concerned with others? Whoever may be the Guru, if

he is pure of heart and acts in good faith, he will do his disciples

no harm. If there is no progress, the fault lies with the disciples,

their laziness and lack of self-control. On the other hand, if the

disciple is earnest and applies himself intelligently and with zest

to his sadhana, he is bound to meet a more qualified teacher, who

will take him further. Your question flows from three false

assumptions: that one needs concern oneself with others; that one can

evaluate another and that the progress of the disciple is the task

and responsibility of his Guru. In reality, the Guru's role is only

to instruct and encourage; the disciple is totally responsible for

himself.

 

Q: We are told that total surrender to the Guru is enough, that the

Guru will do the rest.

 

M: Of course, when there is total surrender, complete relinquishment

of all concern with one's past, presents and future, with one's

physical and spiritual security and standing, a new life dawns, full

of love and beauty; then the Guru is not important, for the disciple

has broken the shell of self-defence. Complete self-surrender by

itself is liberation.

 

Q: When both the disciple and his teacher are inadequate, what will

happen?

 

M: In the long run all will be well. After all, the real Self of

both is not affected by the comedy they play for a time. They will

sober up and ripen and shift to a higher level of relationship.

 

Q: Or, they may separate.

 

M: Yes, they may separate. After all, no relationship is forever.

Duality is a temporary state.

 

Q: Is it by accident that I met you and by another accident shall

we separate never to meet again? Or is my meeting you a part of some

cosmic pattern, a fragment in the great drama of our lives?

 

M: The real is meaningful and the meaningful relates to reality. If

our relationship is meaningful to you and me, it cannot be

accidental. The future affects the present as much, as the past.

 

Q: How can I make out who is a real saint and who is not?

 

M: You cannot, unless you have a clear insight into the heart of

man. Appearances are deceptive. To see clearly, your mind must be

pure and unattached. Unless you know yourself well, how can you know

another? And when you know yourself -- you are the other.

 

Leave others alone for some time and examine yourself. There are so

many things you do not know about yourself -- what are you, who are

you, how did you come to be born, what are you doing now and why,

where are you going, what is the meaning and purpose of your life,

your death, your future? Have you a past, have you a future? How did

you come to live in turmoil and sorrow, while your entire being

strives for happiness and peace? These are weighty matters and have

to be attended to first. You have no need, nor time for finding who

is a jnani and who is not?

 

Q: I must select my guru rightly.

 

M: Be the right man and the right Guru will surely find you.

 

Q: You are not answering my question: how to find the right Guru?

 

M: But I did answer your question. Do not look for a Guru, do not

even think of one. Make your goal your Guru. After all, the Guru is

but a means to an end, not the end in itself. He is not important, it

is what you expect of him that matters to you. Now, what do you

expect?

 

Q: By his grace I shall be made happy, powerful and peaceful.

 

M: What ambitions! How can a person limited in time and space, a

mere body-mind, a gasp of pain between birth and death, be happy? The

very conditions of its arising make happiness impossible. Peace,

power, happiness, these are never personal states, nobody can say `my

peace', `my power' -- because `mine' implies exclusivity, which is

fragile and insecure.

 

Q: I know only my conditioned existence; there is nothing else.

 

M: Surely, you cannot say so. In deep sleep you are not conditioned.

How ready and willing you are to go to sleep, how peaceful, free and

happy you are when asleep!

 

Q: I know nothing of it.

 

M: Put it negatively. When you sleep, you are not in pain, nor

bound, nor restless.

 

Q: I see your point. While awake, I know that I am, but am not

happy; in sleep I am, I am happy, but I don't know it. All I need is

to know that I am free and happy.

 

M: Quite so. Now, go within, into a state which you may compare to a

state of waking sleep, in which you are aware of yourself, but not of

the world. In that state you will know, without the least trace of

doubt, that at the root of your being you are free and happy. The

only trouble is that you are addicted to experience and you cherish

your memories. In reality it is the other way round; what is

remembered is never real; the real is now.

 

Q: All this I grasp verbally, but it does not become a part of

myself. It remains as a picture in my mind to be looked at. Is it not

the task of the Guru to give life to the picture?

 

M: Again, it is the other way round. The picture is alive; dead is

the mind. As the mind is made of words and images, so is every

reflection in the mind. It covers up reality with verbalisation and

then complains. You say a Guru is needed, to do miracles with you.

You are playing with words only. The Guru and the disciple are one

single thing, like the candle and its flame. Unless the disciple is

earnest, he cannot be called a disciple. Unless a Guru is all love

and self-giving, he cannot be called a Guru. Only reality begets

reality, not the false.

 

Q: I can see that I am false. Who will make me true?

 

M: The very words you said will do it. The sentence: ` I can see

that I am false' contains all you need for liberation. Ponder over

it, go into it deeply, go to the root of it; it will operate. The

power is in the word, not in the person.

 

Q: I do not grasp you fully. On one hand you say a Guru is needed;

on the other -- the Guru can only give advice, bit the effort is

mine. Please state clearly -- can one realise the Self without a

Guru, or is the finding of a true Guru essential?

 

M: More essential is the finding of a true disciple. Believe me, a

true disciple is very rare, for in no time he goes beyond the need

for a Guru, by finding his own self. Don't waste your time on trying

to make out whether the advice you get flows from knowledge only, or

from valid experience! Just follow it faithfully. Life will bring you

another Guru, if another one is needed. Or deprive you of all outer

guidance and leave you to your own lights. It is very important to

understand that it is the teaching that matters, not the person or

the Guru. You get a letter that makes you laugh or cry. It is not the

postman who does it. The Guru only tells you the good news about your

real Self and shows you the way back to it. In a way the Guru is its

messenger. There will be many messengers, but the message is one: be

what you are. Or, you can put it differently: Until you realise

yourself, you cannot know who is your real Guru. When you realise,

you find that all the Gurus you had have contributed to your

awakening. Your realisation is the proof that your Guru was real.

Therefore, take him as he is, do what he tells you, with earnestness

and zeal and trust your heart to warn you if anything goes wrong. If

doubt sets in, don't fight it. Cling to what is doubtless and leave

the doubtful alone.

 

Q: I have a Guru and I love him very much. But whether he is my

true Guru I do not know.

 

M: Watch yourself. If you see yourself changing, growing, it means

you have found the right man. He may be beautiful or ugly, pleasant

or unpleasant, flattering you or scolding; nothing matters except the

one crucial fact of inward growth. If you don't, well, he may be your

friend, but not your Guru.

 

Q: When I meet a European with some education and talk to him about

a Guru and his teachings, his reaction is: `the man must be mad to

teach such nonsense'. What am I to tell him?

 

M: Take him to himself. Show him, how little he knows himself, how

he takes the most absurd statements about himself for holy truth. He

is told that he is the body, was born, will die, has parents, duties,

learns to like what others like and fear what others fear. Totally a

creature of heredity and society, he lives by memory and acts by

habits. Ignorant of himself and his true interests, he pursues false

aims and is always frustrated. His life and death are meaningless and

painful, and there seems to be no way out. Then tell him, there is a

way out within his easy reach, not a conversion to another set of

ideas, but a liberation from all ideas and patterns of living. Don't

tell him about Gurus and disciples -- this way of thinking is not for

him. His is an inner path, he is moved by an inner urge and guided by

an inner light. Invite him to rebel and he will respond. Do not try

to impress on him that so-and-so is a realised man and can be

accepted as a Guru. As long as he does not trust himself, he cannot

trust another. And confidence will come with experience.

 

Q: How strange! I cannot imagine life without a Guru.

 

M: It is a matter of temperament. You too are right. For you,

singing the praises of God is enough. You need not desire realisation

or take up a sadhana. God's name is all the food you need. Live on it.

 

Q: This constant repetition of a few words, is it not a kind of

madness?

 

M: It is madness, but it is a deliberate madness. All repetitiveness

is tamas, but repeating the name of God is sattva-tamas due to its

high purpose. Because of the presence of sattva, the tamas will wear

out and will take the shape of complete dispassion, detachment,

relinquishment, aloofness, immutability. Tamas becomes the firm

foundation on which an integrated life can be lived.

 

Q: The immutable -- does it die?

 

M: It is changing that dies. The immutable neither lives nor dies;

it is the timeless witness of life and death. You cannot call it

dead, for it is aware. Nor can you call it alive, for it does not

change. It is just like your tape-recorder. It records, it

reproduces -- all by itself. You only listen. Similarly, I watch all

that happens, including my talking to you. It is not me who talks,

the words appear in my mind and then I hear them said.

 

Q: Is it not the case with everybody?

 

M: Who said no? But you insist that you think, you speak, while to

me there is thinking, there is speaking.

 

Q: There are two cases to consider. Either I have found a Guru, or

I have not. In each case what is the right thing to do?

 

M: You are never without a Guru, for he is timelessly present in

your heart. Sometimes he externalises himself and comes to you as an

uplifting and reforming factor in your life, a mother, a wife, a

teacher; or he remains as an inner urge toward righteousness and

perfection. All you have to do is obey him and do what he tells you.

What he wants you to do is simple, learn self-awareness, self-

control, self-surrender. It may seem arduous, but it is easy if you

are earnest. And quite impossible if you are not. Earnestness is both

necessary and sufficient. Everything yields to earnestness.

 

Q: What makes one earnest?

 

M: Compassion is the foundation of earnestness. Compassion for

yourself and others, born of suffering, your own and others.

 

Q: Must I suffer to be earnest?

 

M: You need not, if you are sensitive and respond to the suffering

of others, as Buddha did. But if you are callous and without pity,

your own suffering will make you ask the inevitable questions.

 

Q: I find myself suffering, but not enough. Life is unpleasant, but

bearable. My little pleasures compensate me for my small pains and on

the whole I am better off than most of the people I know. I know that

my condition is precarious, that a calamity can overtake me any

moment. Must I wait for a crisis to put me on my way to truth?

 

M: The moment you have seen how fragile is your condition, you are

already alert. Now, keep alert, give attention, enquire, investigate,

discover your mistakes of mind and body and abandon them.

 

Q: Where is the energy to come from? I am like a paralysed man in a

burning house.

 

M: Even paralysed people sometimes find their legs in a moment of

danger! But you are not paralysed, you merely imagine so. Make the

first step and you will be on your way.

 

Q: I feel my hold on the body is so strong that I just cannot give

up the idea that I am the body. It will cling to me as long as the

body lasts. There are people who maintain that no realisation is

possible while alive and I feel inclined to agree with them.

 

M: Before you agree or disagree, why not investigate the very idea

of a body? Does the mind appear in the body or the body in the mind?

Surely there must be a mind to conceive the `I-am-the-body' idea. A

body without a mind cannot be `my body'. `My body' is invariably

absent when the mind is in abeyance. It is also absent when the mind

is deeply engaged in thoughts and feelings. Once you realise that the

body depends on the mind, and the mind on consciousness, and

consciousness on awareness and not the other way round, your question

about waiting for self-realisation till you die is answered. It is

not that you must be free from `I-am-the-body' idea first, and then

realise the self. It is definitely the other way round -- you cling

to the false, because you do not know the true. Earnestness, not

perfection, is a precondition to self-realisation. Virtues and powers

come with realisation, not before.

 

85. `I am': The Foundation of all Experience

Questioner: I hear you making statements about yourself like: `I am

timeless, immutable beyond attributes', etc. How do you know these

things? And what makes you say them?

 

Maharaj: I am only trying to describe the state before the `I am'

arose, but the state itself, being beyond the mind and language, is

indescribable.

 

Q: The `I am' is the foundation of all experience. What you are

trying to describe must also be an experience, limited and

transitory. You speak of yourself as immutable. I hear the sound of

the word, I remember its dictionary meaning, but the experience of

being immutable I do not have. How can I break through the barrier

and know personally, intimately, what it means to be immutable?

 

M: The word itself is the bridge. Remember it, think of it, explore

it, go round it, look at it from all directions, dive into it with

earnest perseverance: endure all delays and disappointments till

suddenly the mind turns round, away from the word, towards the

reality beyond the word. It is like trying to find a person knowing

his name only. A day comes when your enquiries bring you to him and

the name becomes reality. Words are valuable, for between the word

and its meaning there is a link and if one investigates the word

assiduously, one crosses beyond the concept into the experience at

the root of it. As a matter of fact, such repeated attempts to go

beyond the words is called meditation. Sadhana is but a persistent

attempt to cross over from the verbal to the non-verbal. The task

seems hopeless until suddenly all becomes clear and simple and so

wonderfully easy. But, as long as you are interested in your present

way of living, you will shirk from the final leap into the unknown.

 

Q: Why should the unknown interest me? Of what use is the unknown?

 

M: Of no use whatsoever. But it is worthwhile to know what keeps you

within the narrow confines of the known. It is the full and correct

knowledge of the known that takes you to the unknown. You cannot

think of it in terms of uses and advantages; to be quite detached,

beyond the reach of all self-concern, all selfish consideration, is

an inescapable condition of liberation. You may call it death; to me

it is living at its most meaningful and intense, for I am one with

life in its totality and fullness -- intensity, meaningfulness,

harmony; what more do you want?

 

Q: Nothing more is needed, of course. But you are talking of the

knowable.

 

M: Of the unknowable only silence talks. The mind can talk only of

what it knows. If you diligently investigate the knowable, it

dissolves and only the unknowable remains. But with the first flicker

of imagination and interest the unknowable is obscured and the known

comes to the fore-front. The known, the changeable, is what you live

with -- the unchangeable is of no use to you. It is only when you are

satiated with the changeable and long for the unchangeable, that you

are ready for the turning round and stepping into what can be

described, when seen from the level of the mind, as emptiness and

darkness. For the mind craves for content and variety, while reality

is, to the mind, contentless and invariable.

 

Q: It looks like death to me.

 

M: It is. It is also all-pervading, all-conquering, intense beyond

words. No ordinary brain can stand it without being shattered; hence

the absolute need for sadhana. Purity of body and clarity of mind,

non-violence and selflessness in life are essential for survival as

an intelligent and spiritual entity.

 

Q: Are there entities in reality?

 

M: Identity is Reality, Reality is identity. Reality is not

shapeless mass, a wordless chaos. It is powerful, aware, blissful;

compared to it your life is like a candle to the sun.

 

Q: By the grace of God and your teacher's you lost all desire and

fear and reached the immovable state. My question is simple -- how do

you know that your state is immovable?

 

M: Only the changeable can be thought of and talked about. The

unchangeable can only be realised in silence. Once realised, it will

deeply affect the changeable, itself remaining unaffected.

 

Q: How do you know that you are the witness?

 

M: I do not know, I am. I am, because to be everything must be

witnessed.

 

Q: Existence can also be accepted on hearsay.

 

M: Still, finally you come to the need of a direct witness.

Witnessing, if not personal and actual, must at least be possible and

feasible. Direct experience is the final proof.

 

Q: Experience may be faulty and misleading.

 

M: Quite, but not the fact of an experience. Whatever may be the

experience, true or false, the fact of an experience taking place

cannot be denied. It is its own proof. Watch yourself closely and you

will see that whatever be the content of consciousness, the

witnessing of it does not depend on the content. Awareness is itself

and does not change with the event. The event may be pleasant or

unpleasant, minor or important, awareness is the same. Take note of

the peculiar nature of pure awareness, its natural self-identity,

without the least trace of self-consciousness, and go to the root of

it and you will soon realise that awareness is your true nature and

nothing you may be aware of, you can call your own.

 

Q: Is not consciousness and its content one and the same?

 

M: Consciousness is like a cloud in the sky and the water drops are

the content. The cloud needs the sun to become visible, and

consciousness needs being focussed in awareness.

 

Q: Is not awareness a form of consciousness?

 

M: When the content is viewed without likes and dislikes, the

consciousness of it is awareness. But still there is a difference

between awareness as reflected in consciousness and pure awareness

beyond consciousness. Reflected awareness, the sense `I am aware' is

the witness, while pure awareness is the essence of reality.

Reflection of the sun in a drop of water is the reflection of the

sun, no doubt, but not the sun itself. Between awareness reflected in

consciousness as the witness and pure awareness there is a gap, which

the mind cannot cross.

 

Q: Does it not depend on the way you look at it? The mind says

there is a difference. The heart says there is none.

 

M: Of course there is no difference. The real sees the real in the

unreal. It is the mind that creates the unreal and it is the mind

that sees the false as false.

 

Q: I understood that the experience of the real follows seeing the

false as false.

 

M: There is no such thing as the experience of the real. The real is

beyond experience. All experience is in the mind. You know the real

by being real.

 

Q: If the real is beyond words and mind, why do we talk so much

about it?

 

M: For the joy of it, of course. The real is bliss supreme. Even to

talk of it is happiness.

 

Q: I hear you talking of the unshakable and blissful. What is in

your mind when you use these words?

 

M: There is nothing in my mind. As you hear the words, so do I hear

them. The power that makes everything happen makes them also happen.

 

Q: But you are speaking, not me.

 

M: That is how it appears to you. As I see it, two body-minds

exchange symbolic noises. In reality nothing happens.

 

Q: Listen Sir. I am coming to you because I am in trouble. I am a

poor soul lost in a world I do not understand. I am afraid of Mother

Nature who wants me to grow, procreate and die. When I ask for the

meaning and purpose of all this, she does not answer. I have come to

you because I was told that you are kind and wise. You talk about the

changeable as false and transient and this I can understand. But when

you talk of the immutable, I feel lost. `Not this, not that, beyond

knowledge, of no use' -- why talk of it all? Does it exist, or is it

a concept only, a verbal opposite to the changeable?

 

M: It is, it alone is. But in your present state it is of no use to

you. Just like the glass of water near your bed if of no use to you,

when you dream that you are dying of thirst in a desert. I am trying

to wake you up, whatever your dream.

 

Q: Please don't tell me that I am dreaming and that I will soon

wake up. I wish it were so. But I am awake and in pain. You talk of a

painless state, but you add that I cannot have it in my present

condition. I feel lost.

 

M: Don't feel lost. I only say that to find the immutable and

blissful you must give up your hold on the mutable and painful. You

are concerned with your own happiness and I am telling you that there

is no such thing. Happiness is never your own, it is where the `I' is

not. I do not say it is beyond your reach; you have only to reach out

beyond yourself, and you will find it.

 

Q: If I have to go beyond myself, why did I get the `I am' idea in

the first instance?

 

M: The mind needs a centre to draw a circle. The circle may grow

bigger and with every increase there will be a change in the sense `I

am'. A man who took himself in hand, a Yogi, will draw a spiral, yet

the centre will remain, however vast the spiral. A day comes when the

entire enterprise is seen as false and given up. The central point is

no more and the universe becomes the centre.

 

Q: Yes, maybe. But what am I to do now?

 

M: Assiduously watch your ever-changing life, probe deeply into the

motives beyond your actions and you will soon prick the bubble in

which you are enclosed. A chic needs the shell to grow, but a day

comes when the shell must be broken. If it is not, there will be

suffering and death.

 

Q: Do you mean to say that if I do not take to Yoga, I am doomed to

extinction?

 

M: There is the Guru who will come to your rescue. In the meantime

be satisfied with watching the flow of your life; if your

watchfulness is deep and steady, ever turned towards the source, it

will gradually move upstream till suddenly it becomes the source. Put

your awareness to work, not your mind. The mind is not the right

instrument for this task. The timeless can be reached only by the

timeless. Your body and your mind are both subject to time; Only

awareness is timeless, even in the now. In awareness you are facing

facts and reality is fond of facts.

 

Q: You rely entirely on my awareness to take me over and not on the

Guru and God.

 

M: God gives the body and the mind and the Guru shows the way to use

them. But returning to the source is your own task.

 

Q: God has created me, he will look after me.

 

M: There are innumerable gods, each in his own universe. They create

and re-create eternally. Are you going to wait for them to save you?

What you need for salvation is already within your reach. Use it.

Investigate what you know to its very end and you will reach the

unknown layers of your being. Go further and the unexpected will

explode in you and shatter all.

 

Q: Does it mean death?

 

M: It means life -- at last.

 

86. The Unknown is the Home of the Real

Questioner: Who is the Guru and who is the supreme Guru?

 

Maharaj: All that happens in your consciousness is your Guru. And

pure awareness beyond consciousness is the supreme Guru.

 

Q: My Guru is Sri Babaji. What is your opinion of him?

 

M: What a question to ask! The space in Bombay is asked what is its

opinion of the space in Poona. The names differ, but not the space.

The word `Babaji' is merely as address. Who lives under the address?

You ask questions when you are in trouble. Enquire who is giving

trouble and to whom.

 

Q: I understand everybody is under the obligation to realise. Is it

his duty, or his destiny?

 

M: Realisation is of the fact that you are not a person. Therefore,

it cannot be the duty of the person whose destiny is to disappear.

Its destiny is the duty of him who imagines himself to be the person.

Find out who he is and the imagined person will dissolve. Freedom is

from something. What are you to be free from? Obviously, you must be

free from the person, you take yourself to be, for it is the idea you

have of yourself that keeps you in bondage.

 

Q: How is the person removed?

 

M: By determination. Understand that it must go and wish it to go --

it shall go if you are earnest about it. Somebody, anybody, will tell

you that you are pure consciousness, not a body-mind. Accept it as a

possibility and investigate earnestly. You may discover that it is

not so, that you are not a person bound in space and time. Think of

the difference it would make!

 

Q: If I am not a person, then what am I?

 

M: Wet cloth looks, feels, smells differently as long as it is wet.

When dry it is again the normal cloth. Water has left it and who can

make out that it was wet? Your real nature is not like what you

appear to be. Give up the idea of being a person, that is all. You

need not become what you are anyhow. There is the identity of what

you are and there is the person superimposed on it. All you know is

the person, the identity -- which is not a person -- you do not know,

for you never doubted, never asked yourself the crucial question --

`Who am I'. The identity is the witness of the person and sadhana

consists in shifting the emphasis from the superficial and changeful

person to the immutable and ever-present witness.

 

Q: How is it that the question `Who am I' attracts me little? I

prefer to spend my time in the sweet company of saints.

 

M: Abiding in your own being is also holy company. If you have no

problem of suffering and release from suffering, you will not find

the energy and persistence needed for self-enquiry. You cannot

manufacture a crisis. It must be genuine.

 

Q: How does a genuine crisis happen?

 

M: It happens every moment, but you are not alert enough. A shadow

on your neighbour's face, the immense and all-pervading sorrow of

existence is a constant factor in your life, but you refuse to take

notice. You suffer and see others suffer, but you don't respond.

 

Q: What you say is true, but what can I do about it? Such indeed is

the situation. My helplessness and dullness are a part of it.

 

M: Good enough. Look at yourself steadily -- it is enough. The door

that locks you in, is also the door that lets you out. The `I am' is

the door. Stay at it until it opens. As a matter of fact, it is open,

only you are not at it. You are waiting at the non-existent painted

doors, which will never open.

 

Q: Many of us were taking drugs at some time, and to some extent.

People told us to take drugs in order to break through into higher

levels of consciousness. Others advised us to have abundant sex for

the same purpose. What is your opinion in the matter?

 

M: No doubt, a drug that can affect your brain can also affect your

mind, and give you all the strange experiences promised. But what are

all the drugs compared to the drug that gave you this most unusual

experience of being born and living in sorrow and fear, in search of

happiness, which does not come, or does not last. You should enquire

into the nature of this drug and find an antidote.

 

Birth, life, death -- they are one. Find out what had caused them.

Before you were born, you were already drugged. What kind of drug was

it? You may cure yourself of all diseases, but if you are still under

the influence of the primordial drug, of what use are the superficial

cures?

 

Q: Is it not karma that causes rebirth?

 

M: You may change the name, but the fact remains. What is the drug

which you call karma or destiny? It made you believe yourself to be

what you are not. What is it, and can you be free of it? Before you

go further you must accept, at least as a working theory, that you

are not what you appear to be, that you are under the influence of a

drug. Then only will you have the urge and the patience to examine

the symptoms and search for their common cause. All that a Guru can

tell you is: `My dear Sir, you are quite mistaken about yourself. You

are not the person you think yourself to be.' Trust nobody, not even

yourself. Search, find out, remove and reject every assumption till

you reach the living waters and the rock of truth. Until you are free

of the drug, all your religions and sciences, prayers and Yogas are

of no use to you, for based on a mistake, they strengthen it. But if

you stay with the idea that you are not the body nor the mind, not

even their witness, but altogether beyond, your mind will grow in

clarity, your desires -- in purity, your actions -- in charity and

that inner distillation will take you to another world, a world of

truth and fearless love. Resist your old habits of feeling and

thinking; keep on telling yourself: `No, not so, it cannot be so; I

am not like this, I do not need it, I do not want it', and a day will

surely come when the entire structure of error and despair will

collapse and the ground will be free for a new life. After all, you

must remember, that all your preoccupations with yourself are only in

your waking hours and partly in your dreams; in sleep all is put

aside and forgotten. It shows how little important is your waking

life, even to yourself, that merely lying down and closing the eyes

can end it. Each time you go to sleep you do so without the least

certainty of waking up and yet you accept the risk.

 

Q: When you sleep, are you conscious or unconscious?

 

M: I remain conscious, but not conscious of being a particular

person.

 

Q: Can you give us the taste of the experience of self-realisation?

 

M: Take the whole of it! It is here for the asking. But you do not

ask. Even when you ask, you do not take. Find out what prevents you

from taking.

 

Q: I know what prevents -- my ego.

 

M: Then get busy with your ego -- leave me alone. As long as you are

locked up within your mind, my state is beyond your grasp.

 

Q: I find I have no more questions to ask.

 

M: Were you really at war with your ego, you would have put many

more questions. You are short of questions because you are not really

interested. At present you are moved by the pleasure-pain principle

which is the ego. You are going along with the ego, you are not

fighting it. You are not even aware how totally you are swayed by

personal considerations. A man should always revolt against himself,

for the ego, like a crooked mirror, narrows down and distorts. It is

the worst of all the tyrants, it dominates you absolutely.

 

Q: When there is no `I' who is free?

 

M: The world is free of a mighty nuisance. Good enough.

 

Q: Good for whom?

 

M: Good for everybody. It is like a rope stretched across the

street, it snarls up the traffic. Roll up, it is there, as mere

identity, useful when needed. Freedom from the ego-self is the fruit

of self-enquiry.

 

Q: There was a time when I was most displeased with myself. Now I

have met my Guru and I am at peace, after having surrendered myself

to him completely.

 

M: If you watch your daily life you will see that you have

surrendered nothing. You have merely added the word `surrender' to

your vocabulary and made your Guru into a peg to hang your problems

on. Real surrender means doing nothing, unless prompted by your Guru.

You step, so to say, aside and let your Guru live your life. You

merely watch and wonder how easily he solves the problems which to

you seemed insoluble.

 

Q: As I sit here, I see the room, the people. I see you too. How

does it look at your end? What do you see?

 

M: Nothing. I look, but I do not see in the sense of creating images

clothed with judgements. I do not describe nor evaluate. I look, I

see you, but neither attitude nor opinion cloud my vision. And when I

turn my eyes away, my mind does not allow memory to linger; it is at

once free and fresh for the next impression.

 

Q: As I am here, looking at you, I cannot locate the event in space

and time. There is something eternal and universal about the

transmission of wisdom that is taking place. Ten thousand years

earlier, or later, make no difference -- the event itself is timeless.

 

M: Man does not change much over the ages. Human problems remain the

same and call for the same answers. Your being conscious of what you

call transmission of wisdom shows that wisdom has not yet been

transmitted. When you have it, you are no longer conscious of it.

What is really your own, you are not conscious of. What you are

conscious of is neither you nor yours. Yours is the power of

perception, not what you perceive. It is a mistake to take the

conscious to be the whole of man. Man is the unconscious, conscious

and the super-conscious, but you are not the man. Yours is the cinema

screen, the light as well as the seeing power, but the picture is not

you.

 

Q: Must I search for the Guru, or shall I stay with whomever I have

found?

 

M: The very question shows that you have not yet found one. As long

as you have not realised, you will move from Guru to Guru, but when

you have found yourself, the search will end. A Guru is a milestone.

When you are on the move, you pass so many milestones. When you have

reached your destination, it is the last alone that mattered. In

reality all mattered at their own time and none matters now.

 

Q: You seem to give no importance to the Guru. He is merely an

incident among others.

 

M: All incidents contribute, but none is crucial. On the road each

step helps you reach your destination, and each is as crucial as the

other, for each step must be made, you cannot skip it. If you refuse

to make it, you are stuck!

 

Q: Everybody sings the glories of the Guru, while you compare him

to a milestone. Don't we need a Guru?

 

M: Don't we need a milestone? Yes and no. Yes, if we are uncertain,

no if we know our way. Once we are certain in ourselves, the Guru is

no longer needed, except in a technical sense. Your mind is an

instrument, after all, and you should know how to use it. As you are

taught the uses of your body, so you should know how to use your mind.

 

Q: What do I gain by learning to use my mind?

 

M: You gain freedom from desire and fear, which are entirely due to

wrong uses of the mind. Mere mental knowledge is not enough. The

known is accidental, the unknown is the home of the real. To live in

the known is bondage, to live in the unknown is liberation.

 

Q: I have understood that all spiritual practice consists in the

elimination of the personal self. Such practice demands iron

determination and relentless application. Where to find the integrity

and energy for such work?

 

M: You find it in the company of the wise?

 

Q: How do I know who is wise and who is merely clever?

 

M: If your motives are pure, if you seek truth and nothing else, you

will find the right people. Finding them is easy, what is difficult

is to trust them and take full advantage of their advice and guidance.

 

Q: Is the waking state more important for spiritual practice than

sleep?

 

M: On the whole we attach too much importance, to the waking state.

Without sleep the waking state would be impossible; without sleep one

goes mad or dies; why attach so much importance to waking

consciousness, which is obviously dependent on the unconscious? Not

only the conscious but the unconscious as well should be taken care

of in our spiritual practice.

 

Q: How does one attend to the unconscious?

 

M: Keep the `I am' in the focus of awareness, remember that you are,

watch yourself ceaselessly and the unconscious will flow into the

conscious without any special effort on your part. Wrong desires and

fears, false ideas, social inhibitions are blocking and preventing

its free interplay with the conscious. Once free to mingle, the two

become one and the one becomes all. The person merges into the

witness, the witness into awareness, awareness into pure being, yet

identity is not lost, only its limitations are lost. It is

transfigured, and becomes the real Self, the sadguru, the eternal

friend and guide. You cannot approach it in worship. No external

activity can reach the inner self; worship and prayers remain on the

surface only; to go deeper meditation is essential, the striving to

go beyond the states of sleep, dream and waking. In the beginning the

attempts are irregular, then they recur more often, become regular,

then continuous and intense, until all obstacles are conquered.

 

Q: Obstacles to what?

 

M: To self-forgetting.

 

Q: If worship and prayers are ineffectual why do you worship daily,

with songs and music, the image of your Guru!

 

M: Those who want it, do it. I see no purpose in interfering.

 

Q: But you take part in it.

 

M: Yes, it appears so. But why be so concerned with me? Give all

your attention to the question: `What is it that makes me

conscious?', until your mind becomes the question itself and cannot

think of anything else.

 

Q: All and sundry are urging me to meditate. I find no zest in

meditation, but I am interested in many other things; some I want

very much and my mind goes to them; my attempts at meditation are so

half-hearted. What am I to do?

 

M: Ask yourself: `To whom it all happens?' Use everything as an

opportunity to go within. Light your way by burning up obstacles in

the intensity of awareness. When you happen to desire or fear, it is

not the desire or fear that are wrong and must go, but the person who

desires and fears. There is no point in fighting desires and fears

which may be perfectly natural and justified; It is the person, who

is swayed by them, that is the cause of mistakes, past and future.

The person should be carefully examined and its falseness seen; then

its power over you will end. After all, it subsides each time you go

to sleep. In deep sleep you are not a self-conscious person, yet you

are alive. When you are alive and conscious, but no longer self-

conscious, you are not a person anymore. During the waking hours you

are, as if, on the stage, playing a role, but what are you when the

play is over? You are what you are; what you were before the play

began you remain when it is over. Look at yourself as performing on

the stage of life. The performance may be splendid or clumsy, but you

are not in it, you merely watch it; with interest and sympathy, of

course, but keeping in mind all the time that you are only watching

while the play -- life -- is going on.

 

Q: You are always stressing the cognition aspect of reality. You

hardly ever mention affection, and will -- never?

 

M: Will, affection, bliss, striving and enjoying are so deeply

tainted with the personal, that they cannot be trusted. The

clarification and purification needed at the very start of the

journey, only awareness can give. Love and will shall have their

turn, but the ground must be prepared. The sun of awareness must rise

first -- all else will follow.

 

87. Keep the Mind Silent and You shall Discover

Questioner: Once I had a strange experience. I was not, nor was the

world, there was only light -- within and without -- and immense

peace. This lasted for four days and then I returned to the every-day

consciousness.

 

Now I have a feeling that all I know is merely a scaffolding,

covering and hiding the building under construction. The architect,

the design, the plans, the purpose -- nothing I know; some activity

is going on, things are happening; that is all I can say. I am that

scaffolding, some thing very flimsy and short-lived; when the

building is ready, the scaffolding will be dismantled and removed.

The `I am' and the `What am I' are of no importance, because once the

building is ready, the `I' will go as a matter of course, leaving no

questions about itself to answer.

 

Maharaj: Are you not aware of all this? Is not the fact of awareness

the constant factor?

 

Q: My sense of permanency and identity is due to memory, which is

so evanescent and unreliable. How little I remember, even of the

recent past! I have lived a life-time, and now what is left with me?

A bundle of events, at best a short story.

 

M: All this takes place within your consciousness.

 

Q: Within and without. In daytime -- within; in the night --

without. Consciousness is not all. So many things happen beyond its

reach. To say that what I am not conscious of does not exist, is

altogether wrong.

 

M: What you say is logical, but actually you know only what is in

your consciousness. What you claim exists outside conscious

experience is inferred.

 

Q: It may be inferred and yet it is more real than the sensory.

 

M: Be careful. The moment you start talking you create a verbal

universe, a universe of words, ideas, concepts and abstractions,

interwoven and inter-dependent, most wonderfully generating,

supporting and explaining each other and yet all without essence or

substance, mere creations of the mind. Words create words, reality is

silent.

 

Q: When you talk, I hear you. Is it not a fact?

 

M: That you hear is a fact. What you hear -- is not. The fact can be

experienced, and in that sense the sound of the word and the mental

ripples it causes are experienced. There is no other reality behind

it. Its meaning is purely conventional, to be remembered; a language

can be easily forgotten, unless practiced.

 

Q: If words have no reality in them why talk at all?

 

M: They serve their limited purpose of inter-personal communication.

Words do not convey facts, they signal them. Once you are beyond the

person, you need no words.

 

Q: What can take me beyond the person? How to go beyond

consciousness?

 

M: Words and questions come from the mind and hold you there. To go

beyond the mind, you must be silent and quiet. Peace and silence,

silence and peace -- this is the way beyond. Stop asking questions.

 

Q: Once I give up asking questions, what am I to do?

 

M: What can you do but wait and watch?

 

Q: What am I to wait for?

 

M: For the centre of your being to emerge into consciousness. The

three states -- sleeping, dreaming and waking are all in

consciousness, the manifested; what you call unconsciousness will

also be manifested -- in time; beyond consciousness altogether lies

the unmanifested. And beyond all, and pervading all, is the heart of

being which beats steadily -- manifested-unmanifested; manifested-

unmanifested (saguna-nirguna).

 

Q: On the verbal level it sounds all right. I can visualise myself

as the seed of being, a point in consciousness, with my sense `I am'

pulsating, appearing and disappearing alternately. But what am I to

do to realise it as a fact, to go beyond into the changeless,

wordless Reality?

 

M: You can do nothing. What time has brought about, time will take

away.

 

Q: Why then all these exhortations to practice Yoga and seek

reality? They make me feel empowered and responsible, while in fact

it is time that does all.

 

M: This is the end of Yoga -- to realise independence. All that

happens, happens in and to the mind, not to the source of the `I am'.

Once you realise that all happens by itself, (call it destiny, or the

will of God or mere accident), you remain as witness only,

understanding and enjoying, but not perturbed.

 

Q: If I cease trusting words altogether, what will be my condition?

 

M: There is a season for trusting and for distrusting. Let the

seasons do their work, why worry?

 

Q: Somehow I feel responsible for what happens around me.

 

M: You are responsible only for what you can change. All you can

change is only your attitude. There lies your responsibility.

 

Q: You are advising me to remain indifferent to the sorrows of

others!

 

M: It is not that you are indifferent. All the sufferings of mankind

do not prevent you from enjoying your next meal. The witness is not

indifferent. He is the fullness of understanding and compassion. Only

as the witness you can help another.

 

Q: All my life I was fed on words. The number of words I have heard

and read go into the billions. Did it benefit me? Not at all!

 

M: The mind shapes the language and the language shapes the mind.

Both are tools, use them but don't misuse them. Words can bring you

only unto their own limit; to go beyond, you must abandon them.

Remain as the silent witness only.

 

Q: How can I? The world disturbs me greatly.

 

M: It is because you think yourself big enough to be affected by the

world. It is not so. You are so small that nothing can pin you down.

It is your mind that gets caught, not you. Know yourself as you are --

a mere point in consciousness, dimensionless and timeless. You are

like the point of the pencil -- by mere contact with you the mind

draws its picture of the world. You are single and simple -- the

picture is complex and extensive. Don't be misled by the picture --

remain aware of the tiny point -- which is everywhere in the picture.

 

What is, can cease to be; what is not, can come to be; but what

neither is nor is not, but on which being and non-being depend, is

unassailable; know yourself to be the cause of desire and fear,

itself free from both.

 

Q: How am I the cause of fear?

 

M: All depends on you. It is by your consent that the world exists.

Withdraw your belief in its reality and it will dissolve like a

dream. Time can bring down mountains; much more you, who are the

timeless source of time. For without memory and expectation there can

be no time.

 

Q: Is the `I am' the Ultimate?

 

M: Before you can say: `I am', you must be there to say it. Being

need not be self-conscious. You need not know to be, but you must be

to know.

 

Q: Sir, I am getting drowned in a sea of words! I can see that all

depends on how the words are out together, but there must be somebody

to put them together -- meaningfully. By drawing words at random the

Ramayana, Mahabharata and Bhagavata could never be produced. The

theory of accidental emergence is not tenable. The origin of the

meaningful must be beyond it. What is the power that creates order

out of chaos? Living is more than being, and consciousness is more

than living. Who is the conscious living being?

 

M: Your question contains the answer: a conscious living being is a

conscious living being. The words are most appropriate, but you do

not grasp their full import. Go deep into the meaning of the words:

being, living, conscious, and you will stop running in circles,

asking questions, but missing answers. Do understand that you cannot

ask a valid question about yourself, because you do not know whom you

are asking about. In the question `Who am I?' the `I' is not known

and the question can be worded as: " I do not know what I mean by `I' "

What you are, you must find out. I can only tell you what you are

not. You are not of the world, you are not even in the world. The

world is not, you alone are. You create the world in your imagination

like a dream. As you cannot separate the dream from yourself, so you

cannot have an outer world independent of yourself. You are

independent, not the world. Don't be afraid of a world you yourself

have created. Cease from looking for happiness and reality in a dream

and you will wake up. You need not know `why' and `how', there is no

end to questions. Abandon all desires, keep your mind silent and you

shall discover.

 

88. Knowledge by the Mind, is not True Knowledge

Questioner: Do you experience the three states of waking, dreaming

and sleeping just as we do, or otherwise?

 

Maharaj: All the three states are sleep to me. My waking state is

beyond them. As I look at you, you all seem asleep, dreaming up words

of your own. I am aware, for I imagine nothing. It is not samadhi

which is but a kind of sleep. It is just a state unaffected by the

mind, free from the past and future. In your case it is distorted by

desire and fear, by memories and hopes; in mine it is as it is --

normal. To be a person is to be asleep.

 

Q: Between the body and pure awareness stands the `inner organ',

antahkarana, the `subtle body', the `mental body', whatever the name.

Just as a whirling mirror converts sunlight into a manifold pattern

of streaks and colours, so does the subtle body convert the simple

light of the shining Self into a diversified world. Thus I have

understood your teaching. What I cannot grasp is how did this subtle

body arise in the first instance?

 

M: It is created with the emergence of the `I am' idea. The two are

one.

 

Q: How did the `I am' appear?

 

M: In your world everything must have a beginning and an end. If it

does not, you call it eternal. In my view there is no such thing as

beginning or end -- these are all related to time. Timeless being is

entirely in the now.

 

Q: The antahkarana, or the `subtle body', is it real or unreal?

 

M: It is momentary. Real when present, unreal when over.

 

Q: What kind of reality? Is it momentary?

 

M: Call it empirical, or actual, or factual. It is the reality of

immediate experience, here and now, which cannot be denied. You can

question the description and the meaning, but not the event itself.

Being and non-being alternate and their reality is momentary. The

Immutable Reality lies beyond space and time. Realise the

momentariness of being and non-being and be free from both.

 

Q: Things may be transient, yet they are very much with us, in

endless repetition.

 

M: Desires are strong. It is desire that causes repetition. There is

no recurrence where desire is not.

 

Q: What about fear?

 

M: Desire is of the past, fear is of the future. The memory of past

suffering and the fear of its recurrence make one anxious about the

future.

 

Q: There is also fear of the unknown.

 

M: Who has not suffered is not afraid.

 

Q: We are condemned to fear?

 

M: Until we can look at fear and accept it as the shadow of personal

existence, as persons we are bound to be afraid. Abandon all personal

equations and you shall be free from fear. It is not difficult.

Desirelessness comes on its own when desire is recognised as false.

You need not struggle with desire. Ultimately, it is an urge to

happiness, which is natural as long as there is sorrow. Only see that

there is no happiness in what you desire.

 

Q: We settle for pleasure.

 

M: Each pleasure is wrapped in pain. You soon discover that you

cannot have one without the other.

 

Q: There is the experiencer and there is his experience. What

created the link between the two?

 

M: Nothing created it. It is. The two are one.

 

Q: I feel there is a catch somewhere, but I do not know where.

 

M: The catch is in your mind, which insists on seeing duality where

there is none.

 

Q: As I listen to you, my mind is all in the now and I am

astonished to find myself without questions.

 

M: You can know reality only when you are astonished.

 

Q: I can make out that the cause of anxiety and fear is memory.

What are the means for putting an end to memory?

 

M: Don't talk of means, there are no means. What you see as false,

dissolves. It is the very nature of illusion to dissolve on

investigation. Investigate -- that is all. You cannot destroy the

false, for you are creating it all the time. Withdraw from it, ignore

it, go beyond, and it will cease to be.

 

Q: Christ also speaks of ignoring evil and being child-like.

 

M: Reality is common to all. Only the false is personal.

 

Q: As I watch the sadhakas and enquire into the theories by which

they live, I find they have merely replaced material cravings

by `spiritual' ambitions. From what you tell us it looks as if the

words: `spiritual' and `ambition' are incompatible. If `spirituality'

implies freedom from ambition, what will urge the seeker on? The

Yogis speak of the desire for liberation as essential. Is it not the

highest form of ambition?

 

M: Ambition is personal, liberation is from the personal. In

liberation both the subject and the object of ambition are no longer.

Earnestness is not a yearning for the fruits of one's endeavours. It

is an expression of an inner shift of interest away from the false,

unessential, the personal.

 

Q: You told us the other day that we cannot even dream of

perfection before realisation, for the Self is the source of all

perfection and not the mind. If it is not excellence in virtue that

is essential for liberation, then what is?

 

M: Liberation is not the result of some means skilfully applied, nor

of circumstances. It is beyond the causal process. Nothing can compel

it, nothing can prevent it.

 

Q: Then why are we not free here and now?

 

M: But we are free `here and now'. It is only the mind that imagines

bondage.

 

Q: What will put an end to imagination?

 

M: Why should you want to put an end to it? Once you know your mind

and its miraculous powers, and remove what poisoned it -- the idea of

a separate and isolated person -- you just leave it alone to do its

work among things to which it is well suited. To keep the mind in its

own place and on its own work is the liberation of the mind.

 

Q: What is the work of the mind?

 

M: The mind is the wife of the heart and the world their home -- to

be kept bright and happy.

 

Q: I have not yet understood why, if nothing stands in the way of

liberation, it does not happen here and now.

 

M: Nothing stands in the way of your liberation and it can happen

here and now, but for your being more interested in other things. And

you cannot fight with your interests. You must go with them, see

through them and watch them reveal themselves as mere errors of

judgement and appreciation.

 

Q: Will it not help me if I go and stay with some great and holy

man?

 

M: Great and holy people are always within your reach, but you do

not recognise them. How will you know who is great and holy? By

hearsay? Can you trust others in these matters, or even yourself? To

convince you beyond the shadow of doubt you need more than a

commendation, more even than a momentary rapture. You may come across

a great and holy man or women and not even know for a long time your

good fortune. The infant son of a great man for many years will not

know the greatness of his father. You must mature to recognise

greatness and purify your heart for holiness. Or you will spend your

time and money in vain and also miss what life offers you. There are

good people among your friends -- you can learn much from them.

Running after saints is merely another game to play. Remember

yourself instead and watch your daily life relentlessly. Be earnest,

and you shall not fail to break the bonds of inattention and

imagination.

 

Q: Do you want me to struggle all alone?

 

M: You are never alone. There are powers and presences who serve you

all the time most faithfully. You may or may not perceive them,

nevertheless they are real and active. When you realise that all is

in your mind and that you are beyond the mind, that you are truly

alone; then all is you.

 

Q: What is omniscience? Is God omniscient? Are you omniscient? We

hear the expression -- universal witness. What does it mean? Does

self-realisation imply omniscience? Or is it a matter of specialised

training?

 

M: To lose entirely all interest in knowledge results in

omniscience. It is but the gift of knowing what needs to be known, at

the right moment, for error-free action. After all, knowledge is

needed for action and if you act rightly, spontaneously, without

bringing in the conscious, so much the better.

 

Q: Can one know the mind of another person?

 

M: Know you own mind first. It contains the entire universe and with

space to spare!

 

Q: Your working theory seems to be that the waking state is not

basically different from dream and the dreamless sleep. The three

states are essentially a case of mistaken self-identification with

the body. Maybe it is true, but, I feel, it is not the whole truth.

 

M: Do not try to know the truth, for knowledge by the mind is not

true knowledge. But you can know what is not true -- which is enough

to liberate you from the false. The idea that you know what is true

is dangerous, for it keeps you imprisoned in the mind. It is when you

do not know, that you are free to investigate. And there can be no

salvation, without investigation, because non-investigation is the

main cause of bondage.

 

Q: You say that the illusion of the world begins with the sense `I

am', but when I ask about the origin of the sense `I am', you answer

that it has no origin, for on investigation it dissolves. What is

solid enough to build the world on cannot be mere illusion. The `I

am' is the only changeless factor I am conscious of; how can it be

false?

 

M: It is not the `I am' that is false, but what you take yourself to

be. I can see, beyond the least shadow of doubt, that you are not

what you believe yourself to be. Logic or no logic, you cannot deny

the obvious. You are nothing that you are conscious of. Apply

yourself diligently to pulling apart the structure you have built in

your mind. What the mind has done the mind must undo.

 

Q: You cannot deny the present moment, mind or no mind. What is

now, is. You may question the appearance, but not the fact. What is

at the root of the fact?

 

M: The `I am' is at the root of all appearance and the permanent

link in the succession of events that we call life; but I am beyond

the `I am'.

 

Q: I have found that the realised people usually describe their

state in terms borrowed from their religion. You happen to be a

Hindu, so you talk of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and use Hindu

approaches and imagery. Kindly tell us, what is the experience behind

your words? What reality do they refer to?

 

M: It is my way of talking, a language I was taught to use.

 

Q: But what is behind the language?

 

M: How can I put it into words, except in negating them? Therefore,

I use words like timeless, spaceless, causeless. These too are words,

but as they are empty of meaning, they suit my purpose.

 

Q: If they are meaningless, why use them?

 

M: Because you want words where no words apply.

 

Q: I can see your point. Again, you have robbed me of my question!

 

89. Progress in Spiritual Life

Questioner: We are two girls from England, visiting India. We know

little about Yoga and we are here because we were told that spiritual

teachers play an important role in Indian life.

 

Maharaj: You are welcome. There is nothing new you will find here.

The work we are doing is timeless. It was the same ten thousand years

ago. Centuries roll on, but the human problem does not change -- the

problem of suffering and the ending of suffering.

 

Q: The other day seven young foreigners have turned up asking for a

place to sleep for a few nights. They came to see their Guru who was

lecturing in Bombay. I met him -- a very pleasant looking young man

is he -- apparently very matter-of-fact and efficient, but with an

atmosphere of peace and silence about him. His teaching is

traditional with stress on karma Yoga, selfless work, service of the

Guru etc. Like the Gita, he says that selfless work will result in

salvation. He is full of ambitious plans: training workers who will

start spiritual centres in many countries. It seems he gives them not

only the authority, but also the power to do the work in his name.

 

M: Yes, there is such a thing as transmission of power.

 

Q: When I was with them I had a strange feeling of becoming

invisible. The devotees, in their surrender to their Guru surrendered

me also! Whatever I did for them was their Guru's doing and I was not

considered, except as a mere instrument. I was merely a tap to turn

left or right. There was no personal relationship whatsoever. They

tried a little to convert me to their faith; as soon as they felt

resistance, they just dropped me from the field of their attention.

Even between themselves they did not appear very much related; it is

their common interest in their Guru that kept them together. I found

it rather cold, almost inhuman. To consider oneself an instrument in

God's hands is one thing; to be denied all attention and

consideration because `all is God' may lead to indifference verging

on cruelty. After all, all wars are made `in the name of God'. The

entire history of mankind is a succession of `holy wars'. One is

never so impersonal as in war!

 

M: To insist, to resist, are contained in the will to be. Remove the

will to be and what remains? Existence and non-existence relate to

something in space and time; here and now, there and then, which

again are in the mind. The mind plays a guessing game; it is ever

uncertain; anxiety-ridden and restless. You resent being treated as a

mere instrument of some god, or Guru, and insist on being treated as

a person, because you are not sure of your own existence and do not

want to give up the comfort and assurance of a personality. You may

not be what you believe yourself to be, but it gives you continuity,

your future flows into the present and becomes the past without

jolts. To be denied personal existence is frightening, but you must

face it and find your identity with the totality of life. Then the

problem of who is used by whom is no more.

 

Q: All the attention I got was an attempt to convert me to their

faith. When I resisted they lost all interest in me.

 

M: One does not become a disciple by conversion, or by accident.

There is usually an ancient link, maintained through many lives and

flowering as love and trust, without which there is no discipleship.

 

Q: What made you decide to become a teacher?

 

M: I was made into one by being called so. Who am I to teach and

whom? What I am, you are, and what you are -- I am. The `I am' is

common to us all; beyond the `I am' there is the immensity of light

and love. We do not see it because we look elsewhere; I can only

point at the sky; seeing of the star is your own work. Some take more

time before they see the star, some take less; it depends on the

clarity of their vision and their earnestness in search. These two

must be their own -- I can only encourage.

 

Q: What am I expected to do when I become a disciple?

 

M: Each teacher has his own method, usually patterned on his Guru's

teachings and on the way he himself has realised, and his own

terminology as well. Within that framework adjustments to the

personality of the disciple are made. The disciple is given full

freedom of thought and enquiry and encouraged to question to his

heart's content. He must be absolutely certain of the standing and

competence of his Guru, otherwise his faith will not be absolute nor

his action complete. It is the absolute in you that takes you to the

absolute beyond you -- absolute truth, love selflessness are the

decisive factors in self-realisation. With earnestness these can be

reached.

 

Q: I understand one must give up one's family and possessions to

become a disciple.

 

M: It varies with the Guru. Some expect their mature disciples to

become ascetics and recluses; some encourage family life and duties.

Most of them consider a model family life more difficult than

renunciation, suitable for a personality more mature and better

balanced. At the early stages the discipline of monastic life may be

advisable. Therefore, in the Hindu culture students up to the age of

25 are expected to live like monks -- in poverty, chastity and

obedience -- to give them a chance to build a character able to meet

the hardships and temptations of married life.

 

Q: Who are the people in this room? Are they your disciples?

 

M: Ask them. It is not on the verbal level that one becomes a

disciple, but in the silent depths of one's being. You do not become

a disciple by choice; it is more a matter of destiny than self-will.

It does not matter much who is the teacher -- they all wish you well.

It is the disciple that matters -- his honesty and earnestness. The

right disciple will always find the right teacher.

 

Q: I can see the beauty and feel the blessedness of a life devoted

to search for truth under a competent and loving teacher.

Unfortunately, we have to return to England.

 

M: Distance does not matter. If your desires are strong and true,

they will mould your life for their fulfilment. Sow you seed and

leave it to the seasons.

 

Q: What are the signs of progress in spiritual life?

 

M: Freedom from anxiety; a sense of ease and joy; deep peace within

and abundant energy without.

 

Q: How did you get it?

 

M: I found it all in the holy presence of my Guru -- I did nothing

on my own. He told me to be quiet -- and I did it -- as much as I

could.

 

Q: Is your presence as powerful as his?

 

M: How am I to know? For me -- his is the only presence. If you are

with me, you are with him.

 

Q: Each Guru will refer me to his own Guru. Where is the starting

point?

 

M: There is a power in the universe working for enlightenment -- and

liberation. We call it Sadashiva, who is ever present in the hearts

of men. It is the unifying factor. Unity -- liberates. Freedom --

unites. Ultimately nothing is mine or yours -- everything is ours.

Just be one with yourself and you will be one with all, at home in

the entire universe.

 

Q: You mean to say that all these glories will come with the mere

dwelling on the feeling `I am'?

 

M: It is the simple that is certain, not the complicated. Somehow,

people do not trust the simple, the easy, the always available. Why

not give an honest trial to what I say? It may look very small and

insignificant, but it is like a seed that grows into a mighty tree.

Give yourself a chance!

 

Q: I see so many people sitting here -- quietly. What for have they

come?

 

M: To meet themselves. At home the world is too much with them. Here

nothing disturbs them; they have a chance to take leave of their

daily worries and contact the essential in themselves.

 

Q: What is the course of training in self-awareness?

 

M: There is no need of training. Awareness is always with you. The

same attention that you give to the outer, you turn to the inner. No

new, or special kind of awareness is needed.

 

Q: Do you help people personally?

 

M: People come to discuss their problems. Apparently they derive

some help, or they would not come.

 

Q: Are the talks with people always in public, or will you talk to

them privately also?

 

M: It is according to their wish. Personally, I make no distinction

between public and private.

 

Q: Are you always available, or have you other work to do?

 

M: I am always available, but the hours in the morning and late

afternoon are the most convenient.

 

Q: I understand that no work ranks higher than the work of a

spiritual teacher.

 

M: The motive matters supremely.

[Guest guest]

What are you trying to do here?

Did someone ask to have <I AM> republished on line?

P

--- " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 a écrit :

 

 

 

80. Awareness

Questioner: Does it take time to realise the Self, or

time cannot

help to realise? Is self-realisation a matter of time

only, or does

it depend on factors other than time?

 

Maharaj: All waiting is futile. To depend on time to

solve our

problems is self-delusion. The future, left to itself

merely repeats

the past. Change can only happen now, never in the

future.

 

Q: What brings about a change?

 

M: With crystal clarity see the need of change. This

is all.

 

Q: Does self-realisation happen in matter, or

beyond? Is it not an

experience depending on the body and the mind for its

occurrence?

 

M: All experience is illusory, limited and temporal.

Expect nothing

from experience. realisation by itself is not an

experience, though

it may lead to a new dimension of experiences. Yet the

new

experiences, however interesting, are not more real

than the old.

Definitely realisation is not a new experience. It is

the discovery

of the timeless factor in every experience. It is

awareness, which

makes experience possible. Just like in all the

colours light is the

colourless factor, so in every experience awareness is

present, yet

it is not an experience.

 

Q: If awareness is not an experience, how can it be

realised?

 

M: Awareness is ever there. It need not be realised.

Open the

shutter of the mind, and it will be flooded with

light.

 

Q: What is matter?

 

M: What you do not understand is matter.

 

Q: Science understands matter.

 

M: Science merely pushes back the frontiers of our

ignorance.

 

Q: And what is nature?

 

M: The totality of conscious experiences is nature.

As a conscious

self you are a part of nature. As awareness, you are

beyond. Seeing

nature as mere consciousness is awareness.

 

Q: Are there levels of awareness?

 

M: There are levels in consciousness, but not in

awareness. It is of

one block, homogeneous. Its reflection in the mind is

love and

understanding. There are levels of clarity in

understanding and

intensity in love, but not in their source. The source

is simple and

single, but its gifts are infinite. Only do not take

the gifts for

the source. realise yourself as the source and not as

the river; that

is all.

 

Q: I am the river too.

 

M: Of course, you are. As an 'I am' you are the

river, flowing

between the banks of the body. But you are also the

source and the

ocean and the clouds in the sky. Wherever there is

life and

consciousness, you are. Smaller than the smallest,

bigger than the

biggest, you are, while all else appears.

 

Q: The sense of being and the sense of living -- are

they one and

the same, or different?

 

M: The identity in space creates one, the continuity

in time creates

the other.

 

Q: You said once that the seer, seeing and the seen

are one single

thing, not three. To me the three are separate. I do

not doubt your

words, only I do not understand.

 

M: Look closely and you will see that the seer and

the seen appear

only when there is seeing. They are attributes of

seeing. When you

say 'I am seeing this'. 'I am' and 'this' come with

seeing, not

before. You cannot have an unseen 'this' nor an

unseeing 'I am'.

 

Q: I can say: 'I do not see'.

 

M: The 'I am seeing this' has become 'l am seeing my

not seeing',

or 'I am seeing darkness'. The seeing remains. In the

triplicity: the

known, knowing and the knower, only the knowing is a

fact. The 'I am'

and 'this' are doubtful. Who knows? What is known?

There is no

certainty, except that there is knowing.

 

Q: Why am I sure of knowing, but not of the knower?

 

M: Knowing is a reflection of your true nature along

with being and

loving. The knower and the known are added by the

mind. It is in the

nature of the mind to create a subject-object duality,

where there is

none.

 

Q: What is the cause of desire and fear?

 

M: Obviously, the memory of past pains and pleasures.

There is no

great mystery about it. Conflict arises only when

desire and fear

refer to the same object.

 

Q: How to put an end to memory?

 

M: It is neither necessary, nor possible. realise

that all happens

in consciousness and you are the root, the source, the

foundation of

consciousness. The world is but a succession of

experiences and you

are what makes them conscious, and yet remain beyond

all experience.

It is like the heat, the flame and the burning wood.

The heat

maintains the flame, the flame consumes the wood.

Without heat there

would be neither flame nor fuel. Similarly, without

awareness there

would be no consciousness, nor life, which transforms

matter into a

vehicle of consciousness.

 

Q: You maintain that without me there would be no

world, and that

the world and my knowledge of the world are identical.

Science has

come to a quite different conclusion: the world exists

as something

concrete and continuous, while I am a by-product of

biological

evolution of the nervous system, which is primarily

not so much a

seat of consciousness, as a mechanism of survival as

individual and

species. Yours is altogether a subjective view, while

science tries

to describe everything in objective terms. Is this

contradiction

inevitable?

 

M: The confusion is apparent and purely verbal. What

is, is. It is

neither subjective nor objective. Matter and mind are

not separate,

they are aspects of one energy. Look at the mind as a

function of

matter and you have science; look at matter as the

product of the

mind and you have religion.

 

Q: But what is true? What comes first, mind or

matter?

 

M: Neither comes first. for neither appears alone.

Matter is the

shape, mind is the name. Together they make the world.

Pervading and

transcending is Reality, pure being -- awareness --

bliss, your very

essence.

 

Q: All I know is the stream of consciousness, an

endless succession

of events. The river of time flows, bringing and

carrying away

relentlessly. Transformation of the future into past

is going on all

the time.

 

M: Are you not the victim of your language? You speak

about the flow

of time, as if you were stationary. But the events you

have witnessed

yesterday somebody else may see tomorrow. It is you

who are in

movement and not time. Stop moving and time will

cease.

 

Q: What does it mean -- time will cease?

 

M: Past and future will merge in the eternal now.

 

Q: But what does it mean in actual experience? How

do you know that

for you time has ceased?

 

M: It may mean that past and future do not matter any

more. It may

also mean that all that happened and will happen

becomes an open book

to be read at will.

 

Q: I can imagine a sort of cosmic memory, accessible

with some

training. But how can the future be known? The

unexpected is

inevitable.

 

M: What is unexpected on one level may be certain to

happen, when

seen from a higher level After all, we are within the

limits of the

mind. In reality nothing happens, there is no past nor

future; all

appears and nothing is.

 

Q: What does it mean, nothing is? Do you turn blank,

or go to

sleep? Or do you dissolve the world and keep us all in

abeyance,

until we are brought back to life at the next flicker

of your thought?

 

M: Oh, no, it is not that bad. The world of mind and

matter, of

names and shapes, continues, but it does not matter to

me at all. It

is like having a shadow. It is there -- following me

wherever I go,

but not hindering me in any way. It remains a world of

experiences,

but not of names and forms related to me by desires

and fears. The

experiences are qualityless, pure experiences, if I

may say so. I

call them experiences for the lack of a better word.

They are like

the waves on the surface of the ocean, the

ever-present, but not

affecting its peaceful power.

 

Q: You mean to say an experience can be nameless,

formless,

undefined?

 

M: In the beginning all experience is such. It is

only desire and

fear, born of memory, that give it name and form and

separate it from

other experiences. It is not a conscious experience,

for it is not in

opposition to other experiences, yet it is an

experience all the same.

 

Q: If it is not conscious, why talk about it?

 

M: Most of your experiences are unconscious. The

conscious ones are

very few. You are unaware of the fact because to you

only the

conscious ones count. Become aware of the unconscious

..

 

Q: Can one be aware of the unconscious? How is it

done?

 

M: Desire and fear are the obscuring and distorting

factors. When

mind is free of them the unconscious becomes

accessible.

 

Q: Does it mean that the unconscious becomes

conscious?

 

M: It is rather the other way round. The conscious

becomes one with

the unconscious. The distinction ceases, whichever way

you look at it.

 

Q: I am puzzled. How can one be aware and yet

unconscious?

 

M: Awareness is not limited to consciousness. It is

of all that is.

Consciousness is of duality. There is no duality in

awareness. It is

one single block of pure cognition. In the same way

one can talk of

the pure being and pure creation -- nameless,

formless, silent and

yet absolutely real, powerful, effective. Their being

indescribable

does not affect them in the least. While they are

unconscious, they

are essential. The conscious cannot change

fundamentally, it can only

modify. Any thing, to change, must pass through death,

through

obscuration and dissolution. Gold jewellery must be

melted down

before it is cast into another shape. What refuses to

die cannot be

reborn.

 

Q: Barring the death of the body, how does one die?

 

M: Withdrawal, aloofness, letting go is death. To

live fully, death

is essential; every ending makes a new beginning. On

the other hand,

do understand, that only the dead can die, not the

living. That which

is alive in you, is immortal.

 

Q: From where does desire draw its energy?

 

M: Its name and shape it draws from memory. The

energy flows from

the source.

 

Q: Some desires are altogether wrong. How can wrong

desires flow

from a sublime source?

 

M: The source is neither right nor wrong. Nor is

desire by itself

right or wrong. It is nothing but striving for

happiness. Having

identified yourself with a speck of a body you feel

lost and search

desperately for the sense of fullness and completeness

you call

happiness.

 

Q: When did I lose it? I never had it.

 

M: You had it before you woke up this morning. Go

beyond your

consciousness and you will find it.

 

Q: How am I to go beyond?

 

M: You know it already; do it.

 

Q: That's what you say. I know nothing about it.

 

M: Yet I repeat -- you know it. Do it. Go beyond,

back to your

normal, natural, supreme state.

 

Q: I'm puzzled.

 

M: A speck in the eye makes you think you are blind.

Wash it out and

look.

 

Q: I do look! I see only darkness.

 

M: Remove the speck and your eyes will be flooded

with light. The

light is there -- waiting. The eyes are there --

ready. The darkness

you see is but the shadow of the tiny speck. Get rid

of it and come

back to your natural state.

 

81. Root Cause of Fear

Maharaj: Where do you come from?

 

Questioner: I am from the United States, but I live

mostly in Europe.

To India I came recently. I was in Rishikesh, in two

Ashrams. I was

taught meditation and breathing.

 

M: How long were you there?

 

Q: Eight days in one, six days in another. I was not

happy there

and I left. Then for three weeks I was with the

Tibetan Lamas. But

they were all wrapped up in formulas and rituals.

 

M: And what was the net result of it all?

 

Q: Definitely there was an increase of energy. But

before I left

for Rishikesh, I did some fasting and dieting at a

Nature Cure

Sanatorium at Pudukkotai in South India. It has done

me enormous good.

 

M: Maybe the access of energy was due to better

health.

 

Q: I cannot say. But as a result of all these

attempts some fires

started burning in various places in my body and I

heard chants and

voices where there were none.

 

M: And what are you after now?

 

Q: Well, what are we all after? Some truth, some

inner certainty,

some real happiness. In the various schools of

self-realisation there

is so much talk of awareness, that one ends with the

impression that

awareness itself is the supreme reality. Is it so? The

body is looked

after by the brain, the brain is illumined by

consciousness;

awareness watches over consciousness; is there

anything beyond

awareness?

 

M: How do you know that you are aware?

 

Q: I feel that I am. I cannot express it otherwise.

 

M: When you follow it up carefully from brain through

consciousness

to awareness, you find that the sense of duality

persists. When you

go beyond awareness, there is a state of non-duality,

in which there

is no cognition, only pure being, which may be as well

called non-

being, if by being you mean being something in

particular.

 

Q: What you call pure being is it universal being,

being everything?

 

M: Everything implies a collection of particulars. In

pure being the

very idea of the particular is absent.

 

Q: Is there any relationship between pure being and

particular

being?

 

M: What relationship can there be between what is and

what merely

appears to be? Is there any relationship between the

ocean and its

waves? The real enables the unreal to appear and

causes it to

disappear. the succession of transient moments creates

the illusion

of time, but the timeless reality of pure being is not

in movement,

for all movement requires a motionless background. It

is itself the

background. Once you have found it in yourself, you

know that you had

never lost that independent being, independent of all

divisions and

separations. But don't look for it in consciousness,

you will not

find it there. Don't look for it anywhere, for nothing

contains it.

On the contrary, it contains everything and manifests

everything. It

is like the daylight that makes everything visible

while itself

remaining invisible.

 

Q: Sir, of what use to me is your telling me that

reality cannot be

found in consciousness? Where else am I to look for

it? How do you

apprehend it?

 

M: It is quite simple. If I ask you what is the taste

of your mouth

all you can do is to say: it is neither sweet nor

bitter, nor sour

nor astringent; it is what remains when all these

tastes are not.

Similarly, when all distinctions and reactions are no

more, what

remains is reality, simple and solid.

 

Q: All that I understand is that I am in the grip of

a

beginningless illusion. And I do not see how it can

come to an end.

If it could, it would -- long ago. I must have had as

many

opportunities in the past as I shall have in the

future. What could

not happen cannot happen. Or, if it did, it could not

last. Our very

deplorable state after all these untold millions of

years carries, at

best, the promise of ultimate extinction, or, which is

worse, the

threat of an endless and meaningless repetition.

 

M: What proof have you that your present state is

beginningless and

endless? How were you before you were born? How will

you be after

death? And of your present state -- how much do you

know? You do not

know even what was your condition before you woke up

this morning?

You only know a little of your present state and from

it you draw

conclusions for all times and places. You may be just

dreaming and

imagining your dream to be eternal.

 

Q: Calling it a dream does not change the situation.

I repeat my

question: what hope is left which the eternity behind

me could not

fulfil? Why should my future be different from my

past?

 

M: In your fevered state, you project a past and a

future and take

them to be real. In fact, you know only your present

moment. Why not

investigate what is now, instead of questioning the

imaginary past

and future? Your present state is neither

beginningless nor endless.

If is over in a flash. Watch carefully from where it

comes and where

it goes. You will soon discover the timeless reality

behind it.

 

Q: Why have I not done it before?

 

M: Just as every wave subsides into the ocean, so

does every moment

return to its source. realisation consists in

discovering the source

and abiding there.

 

Q: Who discovers?

 

M: The mind discovers.

 

Q: Does it find the answers?

 

M: It finds that it is left without questions, that

no answers are

needed.

 

Q: Being born is a fact. Dying is another fact. How

do they appear

to the witness?

 

M: A child was born; a man has died -- just events in

the course of

time.

 

Q: Is there any progress in the witness? Does

awareness evolve?

 

M: What is seen may undergo many changes when the

light of awareness

is focussed on it, but it is the object that changes,

not the light.

Plants grow in sunlight, but the sun does not grow. By

themselves

both the body and the witness are motionless, but when

brought

together in the mind, both appear to move.

 

Q: Yes, I can see that what moves and changes is the

'I am' only.

Is the 'I am' needed at all?

 

M: Who needs it? It is there -- now. It had a

beginning it will have

an end.

 

Q: What remains when the `I am' goes?

 

M: What does not come and go -- remains. It is the

ever greedy mind

that creates ideas of progress and evolution towards

perfection. It

disturbs and talks of order, destroys and seeks

security.

 

Q: Is there progress in destiny, in karma?

 

M: Karma is only a store of unspent energies, of

unfulfilled desires

and fears not understood. The store is being

constantly replenished

by new desires and fears. It need not be so for ever.

Understand the

root cause of your fears -- estrangement from

yourself: and of

desires -- the longing for the self, and your karma

will dissolve

like a dream. Between earth and heaven life goes on.

Nothing is

affected, only bodies grow and decay.

 

Q: Between the person and the witness, what is the

relation?

 

M: There can be no relation between them because they

are one. Don't

separate and don't look for relationship.

 

Q: If the seer and the seen are one, how did the

separation occur?

 

M: Fascinated by names and forms, which are by their

very nature

distinct and diverse, you distinguish what is natural

and separate

what is one. The world is rich in diversity, but your

feeling strange

and frightened is due to misapprehension. It is the

body that is in

danger, not you.

 

Q: I can see that the basic biological anxiety, the

flight

instinct, takes many shapes and distorts my thoughts

and feelings.

But how did this anxiety come into being?

 

M: It is a mental state caused by the 'I-am-the-body'

idea. It can

be removed by the contrary idea: 'I-am-not-the-body'.

Both the ideas

are false, but one removes the other. realise that no

ideas are your

own, they all come to you from outside. You must think

it all out for

yourself, become yourself the object of your

meditation. The effort

to understand yourself is Yoga. Be a Yogi, give your

life to it,

brood, wonder, search, till you come to the root of

error and to the

truth beyond the error.

 

Q: In meditation, who meditates, the person or the

witness?

 

M: Meditation is a deliberate attempt to pierce into

the higher

states of consciousness and finally go beyond it. The

art of

meditation is the art of shifting the focus of

attention to ever

subtler levels, without losing one's grip on the

levels left behind.

In a way it is like having death under control. One

begins with the

lowest levels: social circumstances, customs and

habits; physical

surroundings, the posture and the breathing of the

body, the senses,

their sensations and perceptions; the mind, its

thoughts and

feelings; until the entire mechanism of personality is

grasped and

firmly held. The final stage of meditation is reached

when the sense

of identity goes beyond the 'I-am-so-and-so', beyond

'so-l-am',

beyond 'I-am-the-witness-only', beyond 'there-is',

beyond all ideas

into the impersonally personal pure being. But you

must be energetic

when you take to meditation. It is definitely not a

part-time

occupation. Limit your interests and activities to

what is needed for

you and your dependents' barest needs. Save all your

energies and

time for breaking the wall your mind had built around

you. Believe

me, you will not regret.

 

Q: How do I come to know that my experience is

universal?

 

M: At the end of your meditation all is known

directly, no proofs

whatsoever are required. Just as every drop of the

ocean carries the

taste of the ocean, so does every moment carry the

taste of eternity.

Definitions and descriptions have their place as

useful incentives

for further search, but you must go beyond them into

what is

undefinable and indescribable, except in negative

terms.

 

After all, even universality and eternity are mere

concepts, the

opposites of being place and time-bound. Reality is

not a concept,

nor the manifestation of a concept. It has nothing to

do with

concepts. Concern yourself with your mind, remove its

distortions and

impurities. Once you had the taste of your own self,

you will find it

everywhere and at all times. Therefore, it is so

important that you

should come to it. Once you know it, you will never

lose it.

 

But you must give yourself the opportunity through

intensive, even

arduous meditation.

 

Q: What exactly do you want me to do?

 

M: Give your heart and mind to brooding over the 'I

am', what is it,

how is it, what is its source, its life, its meaning.

It is very much

like digging a well. You reject all that is not water,

till you reach

the life-giving spring.

 

Q: How shall I know that I am moving in the right

direction?

 

M: By your progress in intentness, in clarity and

devotion to the

task.

 

Q: We, Europeans, find it very difficult to keep

quiet. The world

is too much with us.

 

M: Oh, no, you are dreamers too. We differ only in

the contents of

our dreams. You are after perfection -- in the future.

We are intent

on finding it -- in the now. The limited only is

perfectible. The

unlimited is already perfect. You are perfect, only

you don't know

it. Learn to know yourself and you will discover

wonders.

 

All you need is already within you, only you must

approach your self

with reverence and love. Self-condemnation and

self-distrust are

grievous errors. Your constant flight from pain and

search for

pleasure is a sign of love you bear for your self, all

I plead with

you is this: make love of your self perfect. Deny

yourself nothing --

glue your self infinity and eternity and discover that

you do not

need them; you are beyond.

 

82. Absolute Perfection is Here and Now

Questioner: The war is on. What is your attitude to

it?

 

Maharaj: In some place or other, in some form or

other, the war is

always on. Was there a time when there was no war?

Some say it is the

will of God. Some say it is God's play. It is another

way of saying

that wars are inevitable and nobody is responsible.

 

Q: But what is your own attitude?

 

M: Why impose attitudes on me? I have no attitude to

call my own.

 

Q: Surely somebody is responsible for this horrible

and senseless

carnage. Why do people kill each other so readily?

 

M: Search for the culprit within. The ideas of 'me'

and 'mine' are

at the root of all conflict. Be free of them and you

will be out of

conflict.

 

Q: What of it that I am out of conflict? It will not

affect the

war. If I am the cause of war, I am ready to be

destroyed. Yet, it

stands to reason that the disappearance of a thousand

like me will

not stop wars. They did not start with my birth nor

will end with my

death. I am not Responsible. Who is?

 

M: Strife and struggle are a part of existence. Why

don't you

enquire who is responsible for existence?

 

Q: Why do you say that existence and conflict are

inseparable? Can

there be no existence without strife? I need not fight

others to be

myself.

 

M: You fight others all the time for your survival as

a separate

body-mind, a particular name and form. To live you

must destroy. From

the moment you were conceived you started a war with

your

environment -- a merciless war of mutual

extermination, until death

sets you free.

 

Q: My question remains unanswered. You are merely

describing what I

know -- life and its sorrows. But who is responsible,

you do not say.

When I press you, you throw the blame on God, or

karma, or on my own

greed and fear -- which merely invites further

questions. Give me the

final answer.

 

M: The final answer is this: nothing is. All is a

momentary

appearance in the field of the universal

consciousness; continuity as

name and form is a mental formation only, easy to

dispel.

 

Q: I am asking about the immediate, the transitory,

the appearance.

Here is a picture of a child killed by soldiers. It is

a fact --

staring at you. You cannot deny it. Now, who is

responsible for the

death of the child?

 

M: Nobody and everybody. The world is what it

contains and each

thing affects all others. We all kill the child and we

all die with

it. Every event has innumerable causes and produces

numberless

effects. It is useless to keep accounts, nothing is

traceable.

 

Q: Your people speak of karma and retribution.

 

M: It is merely a gross approximation: in reality we

are all

creators and creatures of each other, causing and

bearing each

other's burden.

 

Q: So, the innocent suffers for the guilty?

 

M: In our ignorance we are innocent; in our actions

we are guilty.

We sin without knowing and suffer without

understanding. Our only

hope: to stop, to look, to understand and to get out

of the traps of

memory. For memory feeds imagination and imagination

generates desire

and fear.

 

Q: Why do I imagine at all?

 

M: The light of consciousness passes through the film

of memory and

throws pictures on your brain. Because of the

deficient and

disordered state of your brain, what you perceive is

distorted and

coloured by feelings of like and dislike. Make your

thinking orderly

and free from emotional overtones, and you will see

people and things

as they are, with clarity and charity.

 

The witness of birth, life and death is one and the

same. It is the

witness of pain and of love. For while the existence

in limitation

and separation is sorrowful, we love it. We love it

and hate it at

the same time. We fight, we kill, we destroy life and

property and

yet we are affectionate and self-sacrificing. We nurse

the child

tenderly and orphan it too. Our life is full of

contradictions. Yet

we cling to it. This clinging is at the root of

everything. Still, it

is entirely superficial. We hold on to something or

somebody, with

all our might and next moment we forget it; like a

child that shapes

its mud-pies and abandons them light-heartedly. Touch

them -- it will

scream with anger, divert the child and he forgets

them. For our life

is now, and the love of it is now. We love variety,

the play of pain

and pleasure, we are fascinated by contrasts. For this

we need the

opposites and their apparent separation. We enjoy them

for a time and

then get tired and crave for the peace and silence of

pure being. The

cosmic heart beats ceaselessly. I am the witness and

the heart too.

 

Q: I can see the picture, but who is the painter?

Who is

responsible for this terrible and yet adorable

experience?

 

M: The painter is in the picture. You separate the

painter from the

picture and look for him. Don't separate and don't put

false

questions. Things are as they are and nobody in

particular is

responsible. The idea of personal responsibility comes

from the

illusion of agency. 'Somebody must have done it,

somebody is

responsible'. Society as it is now, with its framework

of laws and

customs, is based on the idea of a separate and

responsible

personality, but this is not the only form a society

can take. There

may be other forms, where the sense of separation is

weak and

responsibility diffused.

 

Q: An individual with a weak sense of personality --

is he nearer

self-realisation?

 

M: Take the case of a young child. The sense of

'I-am' is not yet

formed, the personality is rudimentary. The obstacles

to self

knowledge are few, but the power and the clarity of

awareness, its

width and depth are lacking. In the course of years

awareness will

grow stronger, but also the latent personality will

emerge and

obscure and complicate. Just as the harder the wood,

the hotter the

flame, so the stronger the personality, brighter the

light generated

from its destruction.

 

Q: Have you no problems?

 

M: I do have problems. I told you already. To be, to

exist with a

name and form is painful, yet I love it.

 

Q: But you love everything!

 

M: In existence everything is contained. My very

nature is to love;

even the painful is lovable.

 

Q: It does not make it less painful. Why not remain

in the

unlimited?

 

M: It is the instinct of exploration, the love of the

unknown, that

brings me into existence. It is in the nature of being

to see

adventure in becoming, as it is in the very nature of

becoming to

seek peace in being. This alteration of being and

becoming is

inevitable; but my home is beyond.

 

Q: Is your home in God?

 

M: To love and worship a god is also ignorance. My

home is beyond

all notions, however sublime.

 

Q: But God is not a notion! It is the reality beyond

existence.

 

M: You may use any word you like. Whatever you may

think of am

beyond it.

 

Q: Once you know your home, why not stay in it? What

takes you out

of it?

 

M: Out of love for corporate existence one is born

and once born,

one gets involved in destiny. Destiny is inseparable

from becoming.

The desire to be the particular makes you into a

person with all its

personal past and future. Look at some great man, what

a wonderful

man he was! And yet how troubled was his life and

limited its fruits.

How utterly dependent is the personality of man and

how indifferent

is its world. And yet we love it and protect it for

its very

insignificance.

 

Q: The war is on and there is chaos and you are

being asked to take

charge of a feeding centre. You are given what is

needed, it is only

a question of getting through the job. Will you refuse

it?

 

M: To work, or not to work, is one and the same to

me. I may take

charge, or may not. There may be others, better

endowed for such

tasks, than I am -- professional caterers for

instance. But my

attitude is different. I do not look at death as a

calamity as I do

not rejoice at the birth of a child. The child is out

for trouble

while the dead is out of it. Attachment to life is

attachment to

sorrow. We love what gives us pain. Such is our

nature.

 

For me the moment of death will be a moment of

jubilation, not of

fear. I cried when I was born and I shall die

laughing.

 

Q: What is the change in consciousness at the moment

of death?

 

M: What change do you expect? When the film

projection ends all

remains the same as when it started. The state before

you were born

was also the state after death, if you remember.

 

Q: I remember nothing.

 

M: Because you never tried. It is only a question of

tuning in the

mind. It requires training, of course.

 

Q: Why don't you take part in social work?

 

M: But I am doing nothing else all the time! And what

is the social

work you want me to do? Patchwork is not for me. My

stand is clear:

produce to distribute, feed before you eat, give

before you take,

think of others, before you think of yourself. Only a

selfless

society based on sharing can be stable and happy. This

is the only

practical solution. If you do not want it -- fight.

 

Q: It is all a matter of gunas. Where tamas and

rajas predominate,

there must be war. Where sattva rules, there will be

peace.

 

M: Put it whichever way you like, it comes to the

same. Society is

built on motives. Put goodwill into the foundations

and you will not

need specialised social workers.

 

Q: The world is getting better.

 

M: The world had all the time to get better, yet it

did not. What

hope is there for the future? Of course, there have

been and will be

periods of harmony and peace, when sattva was in

ascendance, but

things get destroyed by their own perfection. A

perfect society is

necessarily static and, therefore, it stagnates and

decays. From the

summit all roads lead downwards. Societies are like

people -- they

are born, they grow to some point of relative

perfection and then

decay and die.

 

Q: Is there not a state of absolute perfection which

does not decay?

 

M: Whatever has a beginning must have an end. In the

timeless all is

perfect, here and now.

 

Q: But shall we reach the timeless in due course?

 

M: In due course we shall come back to the starting

point. Time

cannot take us out of time, as space cannot take us

out of space. All

you get by waiting is more waiting. Absolute

perfection is here and

now, not in some future, near or far. The secret is in

action -- here

and now. It is your behaviour that blinds you to

yourself. Disregard

whatever you think yourself to be and act as if you

were absolutely

perfect -- whatever your idea of perfection may be.

All you need is

courage.

 

Q: Where do I find such courage?

 

M: In yourself, of course. Look within.

 

Q: Your grace will help

 

M: My grace is telling you now: look within. All you

need you have.

Use it. Behave as best you know, do what you think you

should. Don't

be afraid of mistakes; you can always correct them,

only intentions

matter. The shape things take is not within your

power; the motives

of your actions are.

 

Q: How can action born from imperfection lead to

perfection?

 

M: Action does not lead to perfection; perfection is

expressed in

action. As long as you judge yourself by your

expressions give them

utmost attention; when you realise your own being your

behaviour will

be perfect -- spontaneously.

 

Q: If I am timelessly perfect, then why was I born

at all? What is

the purpose of this life?

 

M: It is like asking: what does it profit gold to be

made into an

ornament? The ornament gets the colour and the beauty

of gold; gold

is not enriched. Similarly, reality expressed in

action makes the

action meaningful and beautiful.

 

Q: What does the real gain through its expressions?

 

M: What can it gain? Nothing whatsoever. But it is in

the nature of

love to express itself, to affirm itself, to overcome

difficulties.

Once you have understood that the world is love in

action, you will

look at it quite differently. But first your attitude

to suffering

must change. Suffering is primarily a call for

attention, which

itself is a movement of love. More than happiness,

love wants growth,

the widening and deepening of consciousness and being.

Whatever

prevents becomes a cause of pain, and love does not

shirk from pain.

Sattva, the energy that works for righteousness and

orderly

development, must not be thwarted. When obstructed it

turns against

itself and becomes destructive. Whenever love is

withheld and

suffering allowed to spread, war becomes inevitable.

Our indifference

to our neighbour's sorrow brings suffering to our

door.

 

83. The True Guru

Questioner: You were saying the other day that at the

root of your

realisation was the trust in your Guru. He assured you

that you were

already the Absolute Reality and there was nothing

more to be done.

You trusted him and left it at that, without

straining, without

striving. Now, my question is: without trust in your

Guru would you

have realised? After all, what you are, You are,

whether your mind

trusts or not; would doubt obstruct the action of the

Guru's words

and make them inoperative?

 

Maharaj: You have said it -- they would have been made

inoperative --

for a time.

 

Q: And what would happen to the energy, or power in

the Guru's

words?

 

M: It would remain latent, unmanifested. But the

entire question is

based on a misunderstanding. The master, the disciple,

the love and

trust between them, these are one fact, not so many

independent

facts. Each is a part of the other. Without love and

trust there

would have been no Guru nor disciple, and no

relationship between

them. It is like pressing a switch to light an

electric lamp. It is

because the lamp, the wiring, the switch, the

transformer, the

transmission lines and the power house form a single

whole, that you

get the light. Any one factor missing and there would

be no light.

You must not separate the inseparable. Words do not

create facts;

they either describe them or distort. The fact is

always non-verbal.

 

Q: I still do not understand; can the Guru's word

remain

unfulfilled or will it invariably prove true?

 

M: Words of a realised man never miss their purpose.

They wait for

the right conditions to arise which may take some

time, and. this is

natural, for there is a season for sowing and a season

for

harvesting. But the word of a Guru is a seed that

cannot perish. Of

course, the Guru must be a real one, who is beyond the

body and the

mind, beyond consciousness itself, beyond space and

time, beyond

duality and unity, beyond understanding and

description. The good

people who have read a lot and have a lot to say, may

teach you many

useful things, but they are not the real Gurus whose

words invariably

come true. They also may tell you that you are the

ultimate reality

itself, but what of it?

 

Q: Nevertheless, if for some reason I happen to

trust them and

obey, shall I be the loser?

 

M: If you are able to trust and obey, you will soon

find your real

Guru, or rather, he will find you.

 

Q: Does every knower of the Self become a Guru, or

can one be a

knower of Reality without being able to take others to

it?

 

M: If you know what you teach, you can teach what you

know, Here

seership and teachership are one. But the Absolute

Reality is beyond

both. The self-styled Gurus talk of ripeness and

effort, of merits

and achievements, of destiny and grace; all these are

mere mental

formations, projections of an addicted mind. Instead

of helping, they

obstruct.

 

Q: How can I make out whom to follow and whom to

mistrust?

 

M: Mistrust all, until you are convinced. The true

Guru will never

humiliate you, nor will he estrange you from yourself.

He will

constantly bring you back to the fact of your inherent

perfection and

encourage you to seek within. He knows you need

nothing, not even

him, and is never tired of reminding you. But the self

appointed Guru

is more concerned with himself than with his

disciples.

 

Q: You said that reality is beyond the knowledge and

the teaching

of the real. Is not the knowledge of reality the

supreme itself and

teaching the proof of its attainment?

 

M: The knowledge of the real, or the self, is a state

of mind.

Teaching another is a movement in duality. They

concern the mind

only; sattva is a Guna all the same.

 

Q: What is real then?

 

M: He who knows the mind as non-realised and

realised, who knows

ignorance and knowledge as states of mind, he is the

real. When you

are given diamonds mixed with gravel, you may either

miss the

diamonds or find them. It is the seeing that matters.

Where is the

greyness of the gravel and the beauty of the diamond,

without the

power to see? The known is but a shape and knowledge

is but a name.

The knower is but a state of mind. The real is beyond.

 

Q: Surely, objective knowledge and ideas of things

and self

knowledge are not one and the same thing. One needs a

brain, the

other does not.

 

M: For the purpose of discussion you can arrange

words and give them

meaning, but the fact remains that all knowledge is a

form of

ignorance. The most accurate map is yet only paper.

All knowledge is

in memory; it is only recognition, while reality is

beyond the

duality of the knower and the known.

 

Q: Then by what is reality known?

 

M: How misleading is your language! You assume,

unconsciously, that

reality also is approachable through knowledge. And

then you will

bring in a knower of reality beyond reality! Do

understand that to

be, reality need not be known. Ignorance and knowledge

are in the

mind, not in the real.

 

Q: If there is no such thing as the knowledge of the

real, then how

do I reach it?

 

M: You need not reach out for what is already with

you. Your very

reaching out makes you miss it. Give up the idea that

you have not

found it and just let it come into the focus of direct

perception,

here and now, by removing all that is of the mind.

 

Q: When all that can go, goes, what remains?

 

M: Emptiness remains, awareness remains, pure light

of the conscious

being remains. It is like asking what remains of a

room when all the

furniture is removed? A most serviceable room remains.

And when even

the walls are pulled down, space remains. Beyond space

and time is

the here and the now of reality.

 

Q: Does the witness remain?

 

M: As long as there is consciousness, its witness is

also there. The

two appear and disappear together.

 

Q: If the witness too is transient, why is he given

so much

importance?

 

M: Just to break the spell of the known, the illusion

that only the

perceivable is real.

 

Q: Perception is primary, the witness -- secondary.

 

M: This is the heart of the matter. As long as you

believe that only

the outer world is real, you remain its slave. To

become free, your

attention must be drawn to the 'I am', the witness. Of

course, the

knower and the known are one not two, but to break the

spell of the

known the knower must be brought to the forefront.

Neither is

primary, both are reflections in memory of the

ineffable experience,

ever new and ever now, untranslatable, quicker than

the mind.

 

Q: Sir, I am an humble seeker, wandering from Guru

to Guru in

search of release. My mind is sick, burning with

desire, frozen with

fear. My days flit by, red with pain, grey with

boredom. My age is

advancing, my health decaying, my future dark and

frightening. At

this rate I shall live in sorrow and die in despair.

Is there any

hope for me? Or have I come too late?

 

M: Nothing is wrong with you, but the ideas you have

of yourself are

altogether wrong. It is not you who desires, fears and

suffers, it is

the person built on the foundation of your body by

circumstances and

influences. You are not that person. This must be

clearly established

in your mind and never lost sight of. Normally, it

needs a prolonged

sadhana, years of austerities and meditation.

 

Q: My mind is weak and vacillating. I have neither

the strength nor

the tenacity for sadhana. My case, is hopeless.

 

M: In a way yours is a most hopeful case. There is an

alternative to

sadhana, which is trust. If you cannot have the

conviction born from

fruitful search, then take advantage of my discovery,

which I am so

eager to share with you. I can see with the utmost

clarity that you

have never been, nor are, nor will be estranged from

realty, that you

are the fullness of perfection here and now and that

nothing can

deprive you of your heritage, of what you are. You are

in no way

different from me, only you do not know it. You do not

know what you

are and therefore you imagine your self to be what you

are not. Hence

desires and fear and overwhelming despair. And

meaningless activity

in order to escape.

 

Just trust me and live by trusting me. I shall not

mislead you. You

are the Supreme Reality beyond the world and its

creator, beyond

consciousness and its witness, beyond all assertions

and denials.

Remember it, think of it, act on it. Abandon all sense

of separation,

see yourself in all and act accordingly. With action

bliss will come

and, with bliss, conviction. After all, you doubt

yourself because

you are in sorrow. Happiness, natural, spontaneous and

lasting cannot

be imagined. Either it is there, or it is not. Once

you begin to

experience the peace, love and happiness which need no

outer causes,

all your doubts will dissolve. Just catch hold of what

I told you and

live by it.

 

Q: You are telling me to live by memory?

 

M: You are living by memory anyhow. I am merely

asking you to

replace the old memories by the memory of what I told

you. As you

were acting on your old memories, act on the new one.

Don't be

afraid. For some time there is bound to be a conflict

between the old

and the new, but if you put yourself resolutely on the

side of the

new, the strife will soon come to an end and you will

realise the

effortless state of being oneself, of not being

deceived by desires

and fears born of illusion.

 

Q: Many Gurus have the habit of giving tokens of

their grace --

their head cloth, or their sticks, or begging bowl, or

robe, thus

transmitting or confirming the self-realisation of

their disciples. I

can see no value in such practices. It is not

self-realisation that

is transmitted, but self-importance. Of what earthly

use is being

told something very flattering, but not true? On one

hand you are

warning me against the many self-styled Gurus, on the

other you want

me to trust you. Why do you claim to be an exception?

 

M: I do not ask you to trust me. Trust my words and

remember them, I

want your happiness, not mine. Distrust those who put

a distance

between you and your true being and offer themselves

as a go-between.

I do nothing of the kind. I do not even make any

promises. I merely

say: if you trust my words and put them to test, you

will for

yourself discover how absolutely true they are. If you

ask for a

proof before you venture, I can only say: I am the

proof. I did trust

my teacher's words and kept them in my mind and I did

find that he

was right, that I was, am and shall be the Infinite

Reality,

embracing all, transcending all.

 

As you say, you have neither the time nor the energy

for lengthy

practices. I offer you an alternative. Accept my words

on trust and

live anew, or live and die in sorrow.

 

Q: It seems too good to be true.

 

M: Don't be misled by the simplicity of the advice.

'\very few are

those who have the courage to trust the innocent and

the simple. To

know that you are a prisoner of your mind, that you

live in an

imaginary world of your own creation is the dawn of

wisdom. To want

nothing of it, to be ready to abandon it entirely, is

earnestness.

Only such earnestness, born of true despair, will make

you trust me.

 

Q: Have l not suffered enough?

 

M: Suffering has made you dull, unable to see its

enormity. Your

first task is to see the sorrow in you and around you;

your next to

long intensely for liberation. The very intensity of

longing will

guide you; you need no other guide.

 

Q: Suffering has made me dull, indifferent even to

itself.

 

M: Maybe it is not sorrow but pleasure that made you

dull.

Investigate.

 

Q: Whatever may be the cause; I am dull. I have

neither the will

nor the energy.

 

M: Oh, no. You have enough for the first step. And

each step will

generate enough energy for the next. Energy comes with

confidence and

confidence comes with experience.

 

Q: Is it right to change Gurus?

 

M: Why not change? Gurus are like milestones? It is

natural to move

on from one to another. Each tells you the direction

and the

distance, while the sadguru, the eternal Guru, is the

road itself.

Once you realise that the road is the goal and that

you are always on

the road, not to reach a goal, but to enjoy its beauty

and its

wisdom, life ceases to be a task and becomes natural

and simple, in

itself an ecstasy.

 

Q: So, there is no need to worship, to pray, to

practice Yoga?

 

M: A little of daily sweeping, washing and bathing

can do no harm.

Self-awareness tells you at every step what needs be

done. When all

is done, the mind remains quiet.

 

Now you are in the waking state, a person with name

and shape, joys

and sorrows. The person was not there before you were

born, nor will

be there after you die. Instead of struggling with the

person to make

it become what it is not, why not go beyond the waking

state and

leave the personal life altogether? It does not mean

the extinction

of the person; it means only seeing it in right

perspective.

 

Q: One more question. You said that before I was

born I was one

with the pure being of reality; if so, who decided

that I should be

born?

 

M: In reality you were never born and never shall

die. But now you

imagine that you are, or have a body and you ask what

has brought

about this state. Within the limits of illusion the

answer is: desire

born from memory attracts you to a body and makes you

think as one

with it. But this is true only from the relative point

of view. In

fact, there is no body, nor a world to contain it;

there is only a

mental condition, a dream-like state, easy to dispel

by questioning

its reality.

 

Q: After you die, will you come again? If I live

long enough, will

I meet you again.

 

M: To you the body is real, to me there is none. I,

as you see me,

exist in your imagination only. Surely, you will see

me again, if and

when you need me. It does not affect me, as the Sun is

not affected

by sunrises and sunsets. Because it is not affected,

it is certain to

be there when needed.

 

You are bent on knowledge, I am not. I do not have

that sense of

insecurity that makes you crave to know. I am curious,

like a child

is curious. But there is no anxiety to make me seek

refuge in

knowledge. Therefore, I am not concerned whether I

shall be reborn,

or how long will the world last. These are questions

born of fear.

 

84. Your Goal is Your Guru

Questioner: You were telling us that there are many

self-styled

Gurus, but a real Guru is very rare. There are many

jnani who imagine

themselves realised, but all they have is book

knowledge and a high

opinion of themselves. Sometimes they impress, even

fascinate,

attract disciples and make them waste their time in

useless

practices. After some years, when the disciple takes

stock of

himself, he finds no change. When he complains to his

teacher, he

gets the usual rebuke that he did not try hard enough.

The blame is

on the lack of faith and love in the heart of the

disciple, while in

reality the blame is on the Guru, who had no business

in accepting

disciples and raising their hopes. How to protect

oneself from such

Gurus?

 

Maharaj: Why be so concerned with others? Whoever may

be the Guru, if

he is pure of heart and acts in good faith, he will do

his disciples

no harm. If there is no progress, the fault lies with

the disciples,

their laziness and lack of self-control. On the other

hand, if the

disciple is earnest and applies himself intelligently

and with zest

to his sadhana, he is bound to meet a more qualified

teacher, who

will take him further. Your question flows from three

false

assumptions: that one needs concern oneself with

others; that one can

evaluate another and that the progress of the disciple

is the task

and responsibility of his Guru. In reality, the Guru's

role is only

to instruct and encourage; the disciple is totally

responsible for

himself.

 

Q: We are told that total surrender to the Guru is

enough, that the

Guru will do the rest.

 

M: Of course, when there is total surrender, complete

relinquishment

of all concern with one's past, presents and future,

with one's

physical and spiritual security and standing, a new

life dawns, full

of love and beauty; then the Guru is not important,

for the disciple

has broken the shell of self-defence. Complete

self-surrender by

itself is liberation.

 

Q: When both the disciple and his teacher are

inadequate, what will

happen?

 

M: In the long run all will be well. After all, the

real Self of

both is not affected by the comedy they play for a

time. They will

sober up and ripen and shift to a higher level of

relationship.

 

Q: Or, they may separate.

 

M: Yes, they may separate. After all, no relationship

is forever.

Duality is a temporary state.

 

Q: Is it by accident that I met you and by another

accident shall

we separate never to meet again? Or is my meeting you

a part of some

cosmic pattern, a fragment in the great drama of our

lives?

 

M: The real is meaningful and the meaningful relates

to reality. If

our relationship is meaningful to you and me, it

cannot be

accidental. The future affects the present as much, as

the past.

 

Q: How can I make out who is a real saint and who is

not?

 

M: You cannot, unless you have a clear insight into

the heart of

man. Appearances are deceptive. To see clearly, your

mind must be

pure and unattached. Unless you know yourself well,

how can you know

another? And when you know yourself -- you are the

other.

 

Leave others alone for some time and examine yourself.

There are so

many things you do not know about yourself -- what are

you, who are

you, how did you come to be born, what are you doing

now and why,

where are you going, what is the meaning and purpose

of your life,

your death, your future? Have you a past, have you a

future? How did

you come to live in turmoil and sorrow, while your

entire being

strives for happiness and peace? These are weighty

matters and have

to be attended to first. You have no need, nor time

for finding who

is a jnani and who is not?

 

Q: I must select my guru rightly.

 

M: Be the right man and the right Guru will surely

find you.

 

Q: You are not answering my question: how to find

the right Guru?

 

M: But I did answer your question. Do not look for a

Guru, do not

even think of one. Make your goal your Guru. After

all, the Guru is

but a means to an end, not the end in itself. He is

not important, it

is what you expect of him that matters to you. Now,

what do you

expect?

 

Q: By his grace I shall be made happy, powerful and

peaceful.

 

M: What ambitions! How can a person limited in time

and space, a

mere body-mind, a gasp of pain between birth and

death, be happy? The

very conditions of its arising make happiness

impossible. Peace,

power, happiness, these are never personal states,

nobody can say `my

peace', `my power' -- because `mine' implies

exclusivity, which is

fragile and insecure.

 

Q: I know only my conditioned existence; there is

nothing else.

 

M: Surely, you cannot say so. In deep sleep you are

not conditioned.

How ready and willing you are to go to sleep, how

peaceful, free and

happy you are when asleep!

 

Q: I know nothing of it.

 

M: Put it negatively. When you sleep, you are not in

pain, nor

bound, nor restless.

 

Q: I see your point. While awake, I know that I am,

but am not

happy; in sleep I am, I am happy, but I don't know it.

All I need is

to know that I am free and happy.

 

M: Quite so. Now, go within, into a state which you

may compare to a

state of waking sleep, in which you are aware of

yourself, but not of

the world. In that state you will know, without the

least trace of

doubt, that at the root of your being you are free and

happy. The

only trouble is that you are addicted to experience

and you cherish

your memories. In reality it is the other way round;

what is

remembered is never real; the real is now.

 

Q: All this I grasp verbally, but it does not become

a part of

myself. It remains as a picture in my mind to be

looked at. Is it not

the task of the Guru to give life to the picture?

 

M: Again, it is the other way round. The picture is

alive; dead is

the mind. As the mind is made of words and images, so

is every

reflection in the mind. It covers up reality with

verbalisation and

then complains. You say a Guru is needed, to do

miracles with you.

You are playing with words only. The Guru and the

disciple are one

single thing, like the candle and its flame. Unless

the disciple is

earnest, he cannot be called a disciple. Unless a Guru

is all love

and self-giving, he cannot be called a Guru. Only

reality begets

reality, not the false.

 

Q: I can see that I am false. Who will make me true?

 

M: The very words you said will do it. The sentence:

` I can see

that I am false' contains all you need for liberation.

Ponder over

it, go into it deeply, go to the root of it; it will

operate. The

power is in the word, not in the person.

 

Q: I do not grasp you fully. On one hand you say a

Guru is needed;

on the other -- the Guru can only give advice, bit the

effort is

mine. Please state clearly -- can one realise the Self

without a

Guru, or is the finding of a true Guru essential?

 

M: More essential is the finding of a true disciple.

Believe me, a

true disciple is very rare, for in no time he goes

beyond the need

for a Guru, by finding his own self. Don't waste your

time on trying

to make out whether the advice you get flows from

knowledge only, or

from valid experience! Just follow it faithfully. Life

will bring you

another Guru, if another one is needed. Or deprive you

of all outer

guidance and leave you to your own lights. It is very

important to

understand that it is the teaching that matters, not

the person or

the Guru. You get a letter that makes you laugh or

cry. It is not the

postman who does it. The Guru only tells you the good

news about your

real Self and shows you the way back to it. In a way

the Guru is its

messenger. There will be many messengers, but the

message is one: be

what you are. Or, you can put it differently: Until

you realise

yourself, you cannot know who is your real Guru. When

you realise,

you find that all the Gurus you had have contributed

to your

awakening. Your realisation is the proof that your

Guru was real.

Therefore, take him as he is, do what he tells you,

with earnestness

and zeal and trust your heart to warn you if anything

goes wrong. If

doubt sets in, don't fight it. Cling to what is

doubtless and leave

the doubtful alone.

 

Q: I have a Guru and I love him very much. But

whether he is my

true Guru I do not know.

 

M: Watch yourself. If you see yourself changing,

growing, it means

you have found the right man. He may be beautiful or

ugly, pleasant

or unpleasant, flattering you or scolding; nothing

matters except the

one crucial fact of inward growth. If you don't, well,

he may be your

friend, but not your Guru.

 

Q: When I meet a European with some education and

talk to him about

a Guru and his teachings, his reaction is: `the man

must be mad to

teach such nonsense'. What am I to tell him?

 

M: Take him to himself. Show him, how little he knows

himself, how

he takes the most absurd statements about himself for

holy truth. He

is told that he is the body, was born, will die, has

parents, duties,

learns to like what others like and fear what others

fear. Totally a

creature of heredity and society, he lives by memory

and acts by

habits. Ignorant of himself and his true interests, he

pursues false

aims and is always frustrated. His life and death are

meaningless and

painful, and there seems to be no way out. Then tell

him, there is a

way out within his easy reach, not a conversion to

another set of

ideas, but a liberation from all ideas and patterns of

living. Don't

tell him about Gurus and disciples -- this way of

thinking is not for

him. His is an inner path, he is moved by an inner

urge and guided by

an inner light. Invite him to rebel and he will

respond. Do not try

to impress on him that so-and-so is a realised man and

can be

accepted as a Guru. As long as he does not trust

himself, he cannot

trust another. And confidence will come with

experience.

 

Q: How strange! I cannot imagine life without a

Guru.

 

M: It is a matter of temperament. You too are right.

For you,

singing the praises of God is enough. You need not

desire realisation

or take up a sadhana. God's name is all the food you

need. Live on it.

 

Q: This constant repetition of a few words, is it

not a kind of

madness?

 

M: It is madness, but it is a deliberate madness. All

repetitiveness

is tamas, but repeating the name of God is

sattva-tamas due to its

high purpose. Because of the presence of sattva, the

tamas will wear

out and will take the shape of complete dispassion,

detachment,

relinquishment, aloofness, immutability. Tamas becomes

the firm

foundation on which an integrated life can be lived.

 

Q: The immutable -- does it die?

 

M: It is changing that dies. The immutable neither

lives nor dies;

it is the timeless witness of life and death. You

cannot call it

dead, for it is aware. Nor can you call it alive, for

it does not

change. It is just like your tape-recorder. It

records, it

reproduces -- all by itself. You only listen.

Similarly, I watch all

that happens, including my talking to you. It is not

me who talks,

the words appear in my mind and then I hear them said.

 

Q: Is it not the case with everybody?

 

M: Who said no? But you insist that you think, you

speak, while to

me there is thinking, there is speaking.

 

Q: There are two cases to consider. Either I have

found a Guru, or

I have not. In each case what is the right thing to

do?

 

M: You are never without a Guru, for he is timelessly

present in

your heart. Sometimes he externalises himself and

comes to you as an

uplifting and reforming factor in your life, a mother,

a wife, a

teacher; or he remains as an inner urge toward

righteousness and

perfection. All you have to do is obey him and do what

he tells you.

What he wants you to do is simple, learn

self-awareness, self-

control, self-surrender. It may seem arduous, but it

is easy if you

are earnest. And quite impossible if you are not.

Earnestness is both

necessary and sufficient. Everything yields to

earnestness.

 

Q: What makes one earnest?

 

M: Compassion is the foundation of earnestness.

Compassion for

yourself and others, born of suffering, your own and

others.

 

Q: Must I suffer to be earnest?

 

M: You need not, if you are sensitive and respond to

the suffering

of others, as Buddha did. But if you are callous and

without pity,

your own suffering will make you ask the inevitable

questions.

 

Q: I find myself suffering, but not enough. Life is

unpleasant, but

bearable. My little pleasures compensate me for my

small pains and on

the whole I am better off than most of the people I

know. I know that

my condition is precarious, that a calamity can

overtake me any

moment. Must I wait for a crisis to put me on my way

to truth?

 

M: The moment you have seen how fragile is your

condition, you are

already alert. Now, keep alert, give attention,

enquire, investigate,

discover your mistakes of mind and body and abandon

them.

 

Q: Where is the energy to come from? I am like a

paralysed man in a

burning house.

 

M: Even paralysed people sometimes find their legs in

a moment of

danger! But you are not paralysed, you merely imagine

so. Make the

first step and you will be on your way.

 

Q: I feel my hold on the body is so strong that I

just cannot give

up the idea that I am the body. It will cling to me as

long as the

body lasts. There are people who maintain that no

realisation is

possible while alive and I feel inclined to agree with

them.

 

M: Before you agree or disagree, why not investigate

the very idea

of a body? Does the mind appear in the body or the

body in the mind?

Surely there must be a mind to conceive the

`I-am-the-body' idea. A

body without a mind cannot be `my body'. `My body' is

invariably

absent when the mind is in abeyance. It is also absent

when the mind

is deeply engaged in thoughts and feelings. Once you

realise that the

body depends on the mind, and the mind on

consciousness, and

consciousness on awareness and not the other way

round, your question

about waiting for self-realisation till you die is

answered. It is

not that you must be free from `I-am-the-body' idea

first, and then

realise the self. It is definitely the other way round

-- you cling

to the false, because you do not know the true.

Earnestness, not

perfection, is a precondition to self-realisation.

Virtues and powers

come with realisation, not before.

 

85. `I am': The Foundation of all Experience

Questioner: I hear you making statements about

yourself like: `I am

timeless, immutable beyond attributes', etc. How do

you know these

things? And what makes you say them?

 

Maharaj: I am only trying to describe the state before

the `I am'

arose, but the state itself, being beyond the mind and

language, is

indescribable.

 

Q: The `I am' is the foundation of all experience.

What you are

trying to describe must also be an experience, limited

and

transitory. You speak of yourself as immutable. I hear

the sound of

the word, I remember its dictionary meaning, but the

experience of

being immutable I do not have. How can I break through

the barrier

and know personally, intimately, what it means to be

immutable?

 

M: The word itself is the bridge. Remember it, think

of it, explore

it, go round it, look at it from all directions, dive

into it with

earnest perseverance: endure all delays and

disappointments till

suddenly the mind turns round, away from the word,

towards the

reality beyond the word. It is like trying to find a

person knowing

his name only. A day comes when your enquiries bring

you to him and

the name becomes reality. Words are valuable, for

between the word

and its meaning there is a link and if one

investigates the word

assiduously, one crosses beyond the concept into the

experience at

the root of it. As a matter of fact, such repeated

attempts to go

beyond the words is called meditation. Sadhana is but

a persistent

attempt to cross over from the verbal to the

non-verbal. The task

seems hopeless until suddenly all becomes clear and

simple and so

wonderfully easy. But, as long as you are interested

in your present

way of living, you will shirk from the final leap into

the unknown.

 

Q: Why should the unknown interest me? Of what use

is the unknown?

 

M: Of no use whatsoever. But it is worthwhile to know

what keeps you

within the narrow confines of the known. It is the

full and correct

knowledge of the known that takes you to the unknown.

You cannot

think of it in terms of uses and advantages; to be

quite detached,

beyond the reach of all self-concern, all selfish

consideration, is

an inescapable condition of liberation. You may call

it death; to me

it is living at its most meaningful and intense, for I

am one with

life in its totality and fullness -- intensity,

meaningfulness,

harmony; what more do you want?

 

Q: Nothing more is needed, of course. But you are

talking of the

knowable.

 

M: Of the unknowable only silence talks. The mind can

talk only of

what it knows. If you diligently investigate the

knowable, it

dissolves and only the unknowable remains. But with

the first flicker

of imagination and interest the unknowable is obscured

and the known

comes to the fore-front. The known, the changeable, is

what you live

with -- the unchangeable is of no use to you. It is

only when you are

satiated with the changeable and long for the

unchangeable, that you

are ready for the turning round and stepping into what

can be

described, when seen from the level of the mind, as

emptiness and

darkness. For the mind craves for content and variety,

while reality

is, to the mind, contentless and invariable.

 

Q: It looks like death to me.

 

M: It is. It is also all-pervading, all-conquering,

intense beyond

words. No ordinary brain can stand it without being

shattered; hence

the absolute need for sadhana. Purity of body and

clarity of mind,

non-violence and selflessness in life are essential

for survival as

an intelligent and spiritual entity.

 

Q: Are there entities in reality?

 

M: Identity is Reality, Reality is identity. Reality

is not

shapeless mass, a wordless chaos. It is powerful,

aware, blissful;

compared to it your life is like a candle to the sun.

 

Q: By the grace of God and your teacher's you lost

all desire and

fear and reached the immovable state. My question is

simple -- how do

you know that your state is immovable?

 

M: Only the changeable can be thought of and talked

about. The

unchangeable can only be realised in silence. Once

realised, it will

deeply affect the changeable, itself remaining

unaffected.

 

Q: How do you know that you are the witness?

 

M: I do not know, I am. I am, because to be

everything must be

witnessed.

 

Q: Existence can also be accepted on hearsay.

 

M: Still, finally you come to the need of a direct

witness.

Witnessing, if not personal and actual, must at least

be possible and

feasible. Direct experience is the final proof.

 

Q: Experience may be faulty and misleading.

 

M: Quite, but not the fact of an experience. Whatever

may be the

experience, true or false, the fact of an experience

taking place

cannot be denied. It is its own proof. Watch yourself

closely and you

will see that whatever be the content of

consciousness, the

witnessing of it does not depend on the content.

Awareness is itself

and does not change with the event. The event may be

pleasant or

unpleasant, minor or important, awareness is the same.

Take note of

the peculiar nature of pure awareness, its natural

self-identity,

without the least trace of self-consciousness, and go

to the root of

it and you will soon realise that awareness is your

true nature and

nothing you may be aware of, you can call your own.

 

Q: Is not consciousness and its content one and the

same?

 

M: Consciousness is like a cloud in the sky and the

water drops are

the content. The cloud needs the sun to become

visible, and

consciousness needs being focussed in awareness.

 

Q: Is not awareness a form of consciousness?

 

M: When the content is viewed without likes and

dislikes, the

consciousness of it is awareness. But still there is a

difference

between awareness as reflected in consciousness and

pure awareness

beyond consciousness. Reflected awareness, the sense

`I am aware' is

the witness, while pure awareness is the essence of

reality.

Reflection of the sun in a drop of water is the

reflection of the

sun, no doubt, but not the sun itself. Between

awareness reflected in

consciousness as the witness and pure awareness there

is a gap, which

the mind cannot cross.

 

Q: Does it not depend on the way you look at it? The

mind says

there is a difference. The heart says there is none.

 

M: Of course there is no difference. The real sees

the real in the

unreal. It is the mind that creates the unreal and it

is the mind

that sees the false as false.

 

Q: I understood that the experience of the real

follows seeing the

false as false.

 

M: There is no such thing as the experience of the

real. The real is

beyond experience. All experience is in the mind. You

know the real

by being real.

 

Q: If the real is beyond words and mind, why do we

talk so much

about it?

 

M: For the joy of it, of course. The real is bliss

supreme. Even to

talk of it is happiness.

 

Q: I hear you talking of the unshakable and

blissful. What is in

your mind when you use these words?

 

M: There is nothing in my mind. As you hear the

words, so do I hear

them. The power that makes everything happen makes

them also happen.

 

Q: But you are speaking, not me.

 

M: That is how it appears to you. As I see it, two

body-minds

exchange symbolic noises. In reality nothing happens.

 

Q: Listen Sir. I am coming to you because I am in

trouble. I am a

poor soul lost in a world I do not understand. I am

afraid of Mother

Nature who wants me to grow, procreate and die. When I

ask for the

meaning and purpose of all this, she does not answer.

I have come to

you because I was told that you are kind and wise. You

talk about the

changeable as false and transient and this I can

understand. But when

you talk of the immutable, I feel lost. `Not this, not

that, beyond

knowledge, of no use' -- why talk of it all? Does it

exist, or is it

a concept only, a verbal opposite to the changeable?

 

M: It is, it alone is. But in your present state it

is of no use to

you. Just like the glass of water near your bed if of

no use to you,

when you dream that you are dying of thirst in a

desert. I am trying

to wake you up, whatever your dream.

 

Q: Please don't tell me that I am dreaming and that

I will soon

wake up. I wish it were so. But I am awake and in

pain. You talk of a

painless state, but you add that I cannot have it in

my present

condition. I feel lost.

 

M: Don't feel lost. I only say that to find the

immutable and

blissful you must give up your hold on the mutable and

painful. You

are concerned with your own happiness and I am telling

you that there

is no such thing. Happiness is never your own, it is

where the `I' is

not. I do not say it is beyond your reach; you have

only to reach out

beyond yourself, and you will find it.

 

Q: If I have to go beyond myself, why did I get the

`I am' idea in

the first instance?

 

M: The mind needs a centre to draw a circle. The

circle may grow

bigger and with every increase there will be a change

in the sense `I

am'. A man who took himself in hand, a Yogi, will draw

a spiral, yet

the centre will remain, however vast the spiral. A day

comes when the

entire enterprise is seen as false and given up. The

central point is

no more and the universe becomes the centre.

 

Q: Yes, maybe. But what am I to do now?

 

M: Assiduously watch your ever-changing life, probe

deeply into the

motives beyond your actions and you will soon prick

the bubble in

which you are enclosed. A chic needs the shell to

grow, but a day

comes when the shell must be broken. If it is not,

there will be

suffering and death.

 

Q: Do you mean to say that if I do not take to Yoga,

I am doomed to

extinction?

 

M: There is the Guru who will come to your rescue. In

the meantime

be satisfied with watching the flow of your life; if

your

watchfulness is deep and steady, ever turned towards

the source, it

will gradually move upstream till suddenly it becomes

the source. Put

your awareness to work, not your mind. The mind is not

the right

instrument for this task. The timeless can be reached

only by the

timeless. Your body and your mind are both subject to

time; Only

awareness is timeless, even in the now. In awareness

you are facing

facts and reality is fond of facts.

 

Q: You rely entirely on my awareness to take me over

and not on the

Guru and God.

 

M: God gives the body and the mind and the Guru shows

the way to use

them. But returning to the source is your own task.

 

Q: God has created me, he will look after me.

 

M: There are innumerable gods, each in his own

universe. They create

and re-create eternally. Are you going to wait for

them to save you?

What you need for salvation is already within your

reach. Use it.

Investigate what you know to its very end and you will

reach the

unknown layers of your being. Go further and the

unexpected will

explode in you and shatter all.

 

Q: Does it mean death?

 

M: It means life -- at last.

 

86. The Unknown is the Home of the Real

Questioner: Who is the Guru and who is the supreme

Guru?

 

Maharaj: All that happens in your consciousness is

your Guru. And

pure awareness beyond consciousness is the supreme

Guru.

 

Q: My Guru is Sri Babaji. What is your opinion of

him?

 

M: What a question to ask! The space in Bombay is

asked what is its

opinion of the space in Poona. The names differ, but

not the space.

The word `Babaji' is merely as address. Who lives

under the address?

You ask questions when you are in trouble. Enquire who

is giving

trouble and to whom.

 

Q: I understand everybody is under the obligation to

realise. Is it

his duty, or his destiny?

 

M: Realisation is of the fact that you are not a

person. Therefore,

it cannot be the duty of the person whose destiny is

to disappear.

Its destiny is the duty of him who imagines himself to

be the person.

Find out who he is and the imagined person will

dissolve. Freedom is

from something. What are you to be free from?

Obviously, you must be

free from the person, you take yourself to be, for it

is the idea you

have of yourself that keeps you in bondage.

 

Q: How is the person removed?

 

M: By determination. Understand that it must go and

wish it to go --

it shall go if you are earnest about it. Somebody,

anybody, will tell

you that you are pure consciousness, not a body-mind.

Accept it as a

possibility and investigate earnestly. You may

discover that it is

not so, that you are not a person bound in space and

time. Think of

the difference it would make!

 

Q: If I am not a person, then what am I?

 

M: Wet cloth looks, feels, smells differently as long

as it is wet.

When dry it is again the normal cloth. Water has left

it and who can

make out that it was wet? Your real nature is not like

what you

appear to be. Give up the idea of being a person, that

is all. You

need not become what you are anyhow. There is the

identity of what

you are and there is the person superimposed on it.

All you know is

the person, the identity -- which is not a person --

you do not know,

for you never doubted, never asked yourself the

crucial question --

`Who am I'. The identity is the witness of the person

and sadhana

consists in shifting the emphasis from the superficial

and changeful

person to the immutable and ever-present witness.

 

Q: How is it that the question `Who am I' attracts

me little? I

prefer to spend my time in the sweet company of

saints.

 

M: Abiding in your own being is also holy company. If

you have no

problem of suffering and release from suffering, you

will not find

the energy and persistence needed for self-enquiry.

You cannot

manufacture a crisis. It must be genuine.

 

Q: How does a genuine crisis happen?

 

M: It happens every moment, but you are not alert

enough. A shadow

on your neighbour's face, the immense and

all-pervading sorrow of

existence is a constant factor in your life, but you

refuse to take

notice. You suffer and see others suffer, but you

don't respond.

 

Q: What you say is true, but what can I do about it?

Such indeed is

the situation. My helplessness and dullness are a part

of it.

 

M: Good enough. Look at yourself steadily -- it is

enough. The door

that locks you in, is also the door that lets you out.

The `I am' is

the door. Stay at it until it opens. As a matter of

fact, it is open,

only you are not at it. You are waiting at the

non-existent painted

doors, which will never open.

 

Q: Many of us were taking drugs at some time, and to

some extent.

People told us to take drugs in order to break through

into higher

levels of consciousness. Others advised us to have

abundant sex for

the same purpose. What is your opinion in the matter?

 

M: No doubt, a drug that can affect your brain can

also affect your

mind, and give you all the strange experiences

promised. But what are

all the drugs compared to the drug that gave you this

most unusual

experience of being born and living in sorrow and

fear, in search of

happiness, which does not come, or does not last. You

should enquire

into the nature of this drug and find an antidote.

 

Birth, life, death -- they are one. Find out what had

caused them.

Before you were born, you were already drugged. What

kind of drug was

it? You may cure yourself of all diseases, but if you

are still under

the influence of the primordial drug, of what use are

the superficial

cures?

 

Q: Is it not karma that causes rebirth?

 

M: You may change the name, but the fact remains.

What is the drug

which you call karma or destiny? It made you believe

yourself to be

what you are not. What is it, and can you be free of

it? Before you

go further you must accept, at least as a working

theory, that you

are not what you appear to be, that you are under the

influence of a

drug. Then only will you have the urge and the

patience to examine

the symptoms and search for their common cause. All

that a Guru can

tell you is: `My dear Sir, you are quite mistaken

about yourself. You

are not the person you think yourself to be.' Trust

nobody, not even

yourself. Search, find out, remove and reject every

assumption till

you reach the living waters and the rock of truth.

Until you are free

of the drug, all your religions and sciences, prayers

and Yogas are

of no use to you, for based on a mistake, they

strengthen it. But if

you stay with the idea that you are not the body nor

the mind, not

even their witness, but altogether beyond, your mind

will grow in

clarity, your desires -- in purity, your actions -- in

charity and

that inner distillation will take you to another

world, a world of

truth and fearless love. Resist your old habits of

feeling and

thinking; keep on telling yourself: `No, not so, it

cannot be so; I

am not like this, I do not need it, I do not want it',

and a day will

surely come when the entire structure of error and

despair will

collapse and the ground will be free for a new life.

After all, you

must remember, that all your preoccupations with

yourself are only in

your waking hours and partly in your dreams; in sleep

all is put

aside and forgotten. It shows how little important is

your waking

life, even to yourself, that merely lying down and

closing the eyes

can end it. Each time you go to sleep you do so

without the least

certainty of waking up and yet you accept the risk.

 

Q: When you sleep, are you conscious or unconscious?

 

M: I remain conscious, but not conscious of being a

particular

person.

 

Q: Can you give us the taste of the experience of

self-realisation?

 

M: Take the whole of it! It is here for the asking.

But you do not

ask. Even when you ask, you do not take. Find out what

prevents you

from taking.

 

Q: I know what prevents -- my ego.

 

M: Then get busy with your ego -- leave me alone. As

long as you are

locked up within your mind, my state is beyond your

grasp.

 

Q: I find I have no more questions to ask.

 

M: Were you really at war with your ego, you would

have put many

more questions. You are short of questions because you

are not really

interested. At present you are moved by the

pleasure-pain principle

which is the ego. You are going along with the ego,

you are not

fighting it. You are not even aware how totally you

are swayed by

personal considerations. A man should always revolt

against himself,

for the ego, like a crooked mirror, narrows down and

distorts. It is

the worst of all the tyrants, it dominates you

absolutely.

 

Q: When there is no `I' who is free?

 

M: The world is free of a mighty nuisance. Good

enough.

 

Q: Good for whom?

 

M: Good for everybody. It is like a rope stretched

across the

street, it snarls up the traffic. Roll up, it is

there, as mere

identity, useful when needed. Freedom from the

ego-self is the fruit

of self-enquiry.

 

Q: There was a time when I was most displeased with

myself. Now I

have met my Guru and I am at peace, after having

surrendered myself

to him completely.

 

M: If you watch your daily life you will see that you

have

surrendered nothing. You have merely added the word

`surrender' to

your vocabulary and made your Guru into a peg to hang

your problems

on. Real surrender means doing nothing, unless

prompted by your Guru.

You step, so to say, aside and let your Guru live your

life. You

merely watch and wonder how easily he solves the

problems which to

you seemed insoluble.

 

Q: As I sit here, I see the room, the people. I see

you too. How

does it look at your end? What do you see?

 

M: Nothing. I look, but I do not see in the sense of

creating images

clothed with judgements. I do not describe nor

evaluate. I look, I

see you, but neither attitude nor opinion cloud my

vision. And when I

turn my eyes away, my mind does not allow memory to

linger; it is at

once free and fresh for the next impression.

 

Q: As I am here, looking at you, I cannot locate the

event in space

and time. There is something eternal and universal

about the

transmission of wisdom that is taking place. Ten

thousand years

earlier, or later, make no difference -- the event

itself is timeless.

 

M: Man does not change much over the ages. Human

problems remain the

same and call for the same answers. Your being

conscious of what you

call transmission of wisdom shows that wisdom has not

yet been

transmitted. When you have it, you are no longer

conscious of it.

What is really your own, you are not conscious of.

What you are

conscious of is neither you nor yours. Yours is the

power of

perception, not what you perceive. It is a mistake to

take the

conscious to be the whole of man. Man is the

unconscious, conscious

and the super-conscious, but you are not the man.

Yours is the cinema

screen, the light as well as the seeing power, but the

picture is not

you.

 

Q: Must I search for the Guru, or shall I stay with

whomever I have

found?

 

M: The very question shows that you have not yet

found one. As long

as you have not realised, you will move from Guru to

Guru, but when

you have found yourself, the search will end. A Guru

is a milestone.

When you are on the move, you pass so many milestones.

When you have

reached your destination, it is the last alone that

mattered. In

reality all mattered at their own time and none

matters now.

 

Q: You seem to give no importance to the Guru. He is

merely an

incident among others.

 

M: All incidents contribute, but none is crucial. On

the road each

step helps you reach your destination, and each is as

crucial as the

other, for each step must be made, you cannot skip it.

If you refuse

to make it, you are stuck!

 

Q: Everybody sings the glories of the Guru, while

you compare him

to a milestone. Don't we need a Guru?

 

M: Don't we need a milestone? Yes and no. Yes, if we

are uncertain,

no if we know our way. Once we are certain in

ourselves, the Guru is

no longer needed, except in a technical sense. Your

mind is an

instrument, after all, and you should know how to use

it. As you are

taught the uses of your body, so you should know how

to use your mind.

 

Q: What do I gain by learning to use my mind?

 

M: You gain freedom from desire and fear, which are

entirely due to

wrong uses of the mind. Mere mental knowledge is not

enough. The

known is accidental, the unknown is the home of the

real. To live in

the known is bondage, to live in the unknown is

liberation.

 

Q: I have understood that all spiritual practice

consists in the

elimination of the personal self. Such practice

demands iron

determination and relentless application. Where to

find the integrity

and energy for such work?

 

M: You find it in the company of the wise?

 

Q: How do I know who is wise and who is merely

clever?

 

M: If your motives are pure, if you seek truth and

nothing else, you

will find the right people. Finding them is easy, what

is difficult

is to trust them and take full advantage of their

advice and guidance.

 

Q: Is the waking state more important for spiritual

practice than

sleep?

 

M: On the whole we attach too much importance, to the

waking state.

Without sleep the waking state would be impossible;

without sleep one

goes mad or dies; why attach so much importance to

waking

consciousness, which is obviously dependent on the

unconscious? Not

only the conscious but the unconscious as well should

be taken care

of in our spiritual practice.

 

Q: How does one attend to the unconscious?

 

M: Keep the `I am' in the focus of awareness,

remember that you are,

watch yourself ceaselessly and the unconscious will

flow into the

conscious without any special effort on your part.

Wrong desires and

fears, false ideas, social inhibitions are blocking

and preventing

its free interplay with the conscious. Once free to

mingle, the two

become one and the one becomes all. The person merges

into the

witness, the witness into awareness, awareness into

pure being, yet

identity is not lost, only its limitations are lost.

It is

transfigured, and becomes the real Self, the sadguru,

the eternal

friend and guide. You cannot approach it in worship.

No external

activity can reach the inner self; worship and prayers

remain on the

surface only; to go deeper meditation is essential,

the striving to

go beyond the states of sleep, dream and waking. In

the beginning the

attempts are irregular, then they recur more often,

become regular,

then continuous and intense, until all obstacles are

conquered.

 

Q: Obstacles to what?

 

M: To self-forgetting.

 

Q: If worship and prayers are ineffectual why do you

worship daily,

with songs and music, the image of your Guru!

 

M: Those who want it, do it. I see no purpose in

interfering.

 

Q: But you take part in it.

 

M: Yes, it appears so. But why be so concerned with

me? Give all

your attention to the question: `What is it that makes

me

conscious?', until your mind becomes the question

itself and cannot

think of anything else.

 

Q: All and sundry are urging me to meditate. I find

no zest in

meditation, but I am interested in many other things;

some I want

very much and my mind goes to them; my attempts at

meditation are so

half-hearted. What am I to do?

 

M: Ask yourself: `To whom it all happens?' Use

everything as an

opportunity to go within. Light your way by burning up

obstacles in

the intensity of awareness. When you happen to desire

or fear, it is

not the desire or fear that are wrong and must go, but

the person who

desires and fears. There is no point in fighting

desires and fears

which may be perfectly natural and justified; It is

the person, who

is swayed by them, that is the cause of mistakes, past

and future.

The person should be carefully examined and its

falseness seen; then

its power over you will end. After all, it subsides

each time you go

to sleep. In deep sleep you are not a self-conscious

person, yet you

are alive. When you are alive and conscious, but no

longer self-

conscious, you are not a person anymore. During the

waking hours you

are, as if, on the stage, playing a role, but what are

you when the

play is over? You are what you are; what you were

before the play

began you remain when it is over. Look at yourself as

performing on

the stage of life. The performance may be splendid or

clumsy, but you

are not in it, you merely watch it; with interest and

sympathy, of

course, but keeping in mind all the time that you are

only watching

while the play -- life -- is going on.

 

Q: You are always stressing the cognition aspect of

reality. You

hardly ever mention affection, and will -- never?

 

M: Will, affection, bliss, striving and enjoying are

so deeply

tainted with the personal, that they cannot be

trusted. The

clarification and purification needed at the very

start of the

journey, only awareness can give. Love and will shall

have their

turn, but the ground must be prepared. The sun of

awareness must rise

first -- all else will follow.

 

87. Keep the Mind Silent and You shall Discover

Questioner: Once I had a strange experience. I was

not, nor was the

world, there was only light -- within and without --

and immense

peace. This lasted for four days and then I returned

to the every-day

consciousness.

 

Now I have a feeling that all I know is merely a

scaffolding,

covering and hiding the building under construction.

The architect,

the design, the plans, the purpose -- nothing I know;

some activity

is going on, things are happening; that is all I can

say. I am that

scaffolding, some thing very flimsy and short-lived;

when the

building is ready, the scaffolding will be dismantled

and removed.

The `I am' and the `What am I' are of no importance,

because once the

building is ready, the `I' will go as a matter of

course, leaving no

questions about itself to answer.

 

Maharaj: Are you not aware of all this? Is not the

fact of awareness

the constant factor?

 

Q: My sense of permanency and identity is due to

memory, which is

so evanescent and unreliable. How little I remember,

even of the

recent past! I have lived a life-time, and now what is

left with me?

A bundle of events, at best a short story.

 

M: All this takes place within your consciousness.

 

Q: Within and without. In daytime -- within; in the

night --

without. Consciousness is not all. So many things

happen beyond its

reach. To say that what I am not conscious of does not

exist, is

altogether wrong.

 

M: What you say is logical, but actually you know

only what is in

your consciousness. What you claim exists outside

conscious

experience is inferred.

 

Q: It may be inferred and yet it is more real than

the sensory.

 

M: Be careful. The moment you start talking you

create a verbal

universe, a universe of words, ideas, concepts and

abstractions,

interwoven and inter-dependent, most wonderfully

generating,

supporting and explaining each other and yet all

without essence or

substance, mere creations of the mind. Words create

words, reality is

silent.

 

Q: When you talk, I hear you. Is it not a fact?

 

M: That you hear is a fact. What you hear -- is not.

The fact can be

experienced, and in that sense the sound of the word

and the mental

ripples it causes are experienced. There is no other

reality behind

it. Its meaning is purely conventional, to be

remembered; a language

can be easily forgotten, unless practiced.

 

Q: If words have no reality in them why talk at all?

 

M: They serve their limited purpose of inter-personal

communication.

Words do not convey facts, they signal them. Once you

are beyond the

person, you need no words.

 

Q: What can take me beyond the person? How to go

beyond

consciousness?

 

M: Words and questions come from the mind and hold

you there. To go

beyond the mind, you must be silent and quiet. Peace

and silence,

silence and peace -- this is the way beyond. Stop

asking questions.

 

Q: Once I give up asking questions, what am I to do?

 

M: What can you do but wait and watch?

 

Q: What am I to wait for?

 

M: For the centre of your being to emerge into

consciousness. The

three states -- sleeping, dreaming and waking are all

in

consciousness, the manifested; what you call

unconsciousness will

also be manifested -- in time; beyond consciousness

altogether lies

the unmanifested. And beyond all, and pervading all,

is the heart of

being which beats steadily -- manifested-unmanifested;

manifested-

unmanifested (saguna-nirguna).

 

Q: On the verbal level it sounds all right. I can

visualise myself

as the seed of being, a point in consciousness, with

my sense `I am'

pulsating, appearing and disappearing alternately. But

what am I to

do to realise it as a fact, to go beyond into the

changeless,

wordless Reality?

 

M: You can do nothing. What time has brought about,

time will take

away.

 

Q: Why then all these exhortations to practice Yoga

and seek

reality? They make me feel empowered and responsible,

while in fact

it is time that does all.

 

M: This is the end of Yoga -- to realise

independence. All that

happens, happens in and to the mind, not to the source

of the `I am'.

Once you realise that all happens by itself, (call it

destiny, or the

will of God or mere accident), you remain as witness

only,

understanding and enjoying, but not perturbed.

 

Q: If I cease trusting words altogether, what will

be my condition?

 

M: There is a season for trusting and for

distrusting. Let the

seasons do their work, why worry?

 

Q: Somehow I feel responsible for what happens

around me.

 

M: You are responsible only for what you can change.

All you can

change is only your attitude. There lies your

responsibility.

 

Q: You are advising me to remain indifferent to the

sorrows of

others!

 

M: It is not that you are indifferent. All the

sufferings of mankind

do not prevent you from enjoying your next meal. The

witness is not

indifferent. He is the fullness of understanding and

compassion. Only

as the witness you can help another.

 

Q: All my life I was fed on words. The number of

words I have heard

and read go into the billions. Did it benefit me? Not

at all!

 

M: The mind shapes the language and the language

shapes the mind.

Both are tools, use them but don't misuse them. Words

can bring you

only unto their own limit; to go beyond, you must

abandon them.

Remain as the silent witness only.

 

Q: How can I? The world disturbs me greatly.

 

M: It is because you think yourself big enough to be

affected by the

world. It is not so. You are so small that nothing can

pin you down.

It is your mind that gets caught, not you. Know

yourself as you are --

a mere point in consciousness, dimensionless and

timeless. You are

like the point of the pencil -- by mere contact with

you the mind

draws its picture of the world. You are single and

simple -- the

picture is complex and extensive. Don't be misled by

the picture --

remain aware of the tiny point -- which is everywhere

in the picture.

 

What is, can cease to be; what is not, can come to be;

but what

neither is nor is not, but on which being and

non-being depend, is

unassailable; know yourself to be the cause of desire

and fear,

itself free from both.

 

Q: How am I the cause of fear?

 

M: All depends on you. It is by your consent that the

world exists.

Withdraw your belief in its reality and it will

dissolve like a

dream. Time can bring down mountains; much more you,

who are the

timeless source of time. For without memory and

expectation there can

be no time.

 

Q: Is the `I am' the Ultimate?

 

M: Before you can say: `I am', you must be there to

say it. Being

need not be self-conscious. You need not know to be,

but you must be

to know.

 

Q: Sir, I am getting drowned in a sea of words! I

can see that all

depends on how the words are out together, but there

must be somebody

to put them together -- meaningfully. By drawing words

at random the

Ramayana, Mahabharata and Bhagavata could never be

produced. The

theory of accidental emergence is not tenable. The

origin of the

meaningful must be beyond it. What is the power that

creates order

out of chaos? Living is more than being, and

consciousness is more

than living. Who is the conscious living being?

 

M: Your question contains the answer: a conscious

living being is a

conscious living being. The words are most

appropriate, but you do

not grasp their full import. Go deep into the meaning

of the words:

being, living, conscious, and you will stop running in

circles,

asking questions, but missing answers. Do understand

that you cannot

ask a valid question about yourself, because you do

not know whom you

are asking about. In the question `Who am I?' the `I'

is not known

and the question can be worded as: " I do not know what

I mean by `I' "

What you are, you must find out. I can only tell you

what you are

not. You are not of the world, you are not even in the

world. The

world is not, you alone are. You create the world in

your imagination

like a dream. As you cannot separate the dream from

yourself, so you

cannot have an outer world independent of yourself.

You are

independent, not the world. Don't be afraid of a world

you yourself

have created. Cease from looking for happiness and

reality in a dream

and you will wake up. You need not know `why' and

`how', there is no

end to questions. Abandon all desires, keep your mind

silent and you

shall discover.

 

88. Knowledge by the Mind, is not True Knowledge

Questioner: Do you experience the three states of

waking, dreaming

and sleeping just as we do, or otherwise?

 

Maharaj: All the three states are sleep to me. My

waking state is

beyond them. As I look at you, you all seem asleep,

dreaming up words

of your own. I am aware, for I imagine nothing. It is

not samadhi

which is but a kind of sleep. It is just a state

unaffected by the

mind, free from the past and future. In your case it

is distorted by

desire and fear, by memories and hopes; in mine it is

as it is --

normal. To be a person is to be asleep.

 

Q: Between the body and pure awareness stands the

`inner organ',

antahkarana, the `subtle body', the `mental body',

whatever the name.

Just as a whirling mirror converts sunlight into a

manifold pattern

of streaks and colours, so does the subtle body

convert the simple

light of the shining Self into a diversified world.

Thus I have

understood your teaching. What I cannot grasp is how

did this subtle

body arise in the first instance?

 

M: It is created with the emergence of the `I am'

idea. The two are

one.

 

Q: How did the `I am' appear?

 

M: In your world everything must have a beginning and

an end. If it

does not, you call it eternal. In my view there is no

such thing as

beginning or end -- these are all related to time.

Timeless being is

entirely in the now.

 

Q: The antahkarana, or the `subtle body', is it real

or unreal?

 

M: It is momentary. Real when present, unreal when

over.

 

Q: What kind of reality? Is it momentary?

 

M: Call it empirical, or actual, or factual. It is

the reality of

immediate experience, here and now, which cannot be

denied. You can

question the description and the meaning, but not the

event itself.

Being and non-being alternate and their reality is

momentary. The

Immutable Reality lies beyond space and time. Realise

the

momentariness of being and non-being and be free from

both.

 

Q: Things may be transient, yet they are very much

with us, in

endless repetition.

 

M: Desires are strong. It is desire that causes

repetition. There is

no recurrence where desire is not.

 

Q: What about fear?

 

M: Desire is of the past, fear is of the future. The

memory of past

suffering and the fear of its recurrence make one

anxious about the

future.

 

Q: There is also fear of the unknown.

 

M: Who has not suffered is not afraid.

 

Q: We are condemned to fear?

 

M: Until we can look at fear and accept it as the

shadow of personal

existence, as persons we are bound to be afraid.

Abandon all personal

equations and you shall be free from fear. It is not

difficult.

Desirelessness comes on its own when desire is

recognised as false.

You need not struggle with desire. Ultimately, it is

an urge to

happiness, which is natural as long as there is

sorrow. Only see that

there is no happiness in what you desire.

 

Q: We settle for pleasure.

 

M: Each pleasure is wrapped in pain. You soon

discover that you

cannot have one without the other.

 

Q: There is the experiencer and there is his

experience. What

created the link between the two?

 

M: Nothing created it. It is. The two are one.

 

Q: I feel there is a catch somewhere, but I do not

know where.

 

M: The catch is in your mind, which insists on seeing

duality where

there is none.

 

Q: As I listen to you, my mind is all in the now and

I am

astonished to find myself without questions.

 

M: You can know reality only when you are astonished.

 

Q: I can make out that the cause of anxiety and fear

is memory.

What are the means for putting an end to memory?

 

M: Don't talk of means, there are no means. What you

see as false,

dissolves. It is the very nature of illusion to

dissolve on

investigation. Investigate -- that is all. You cannot

destroy the

false, for you are creating it all the time. Withdraw

from it, ignore

it, go beyond, and it will cease to be.

 

Q: Christ also speaks of ignoring evil and being

child-like.

 

M: Reality is common to all. Only the false is

personal.

 

Q: As I watch the sadhakas and enquire into the

theories by which

they live, I find they have merely replaced material

cravings

by `spiritual' ambitions. From what you tell us it

looks as if the

words: `spiritual' and `ambition' are incompatible. If

`spirituality'

implies freedom from ambition, what will urge the

seeker on? The

Yogis speak of the desire for liberation as essential.

Is it not the

highest form of ambition?

 

M: Ambition is personal, liberation is from the

personal. In

liberation both the subject and the object of ambition

are no longer.

Earnestness is not a yearning for the fruits of one's

endeavours. It

is an expression of an inner shift of interest away

from the false,

unessential, the personal.

 

Q: You told us the other day that we cannot even

dream of

perfection before realisation, for the Self is the

source of all

perfection and not the mind. If it is not excellence

in virtue that

is essential for liberation, then what is?

 

M: Liberation is not the result of some means

skilfully applied, nor

of circumstances. It is beyond the causal process.

Nothing can compel

it, nothing can prevent it.

 

Q: Then why are we not free here and now?

 

M: But we are free `here and now'. It is only the

mind that imagines

bondage.

 

Q: What will put an end to imagination?

 

M: Why should you want to put an end to it? Once you

know your mind

and its miraculous powers, and remove what poisoned it

-- the idea of

a separate and isolated person -- you just leave it

alone to do its

work among things to which it is well suited. To keep

the mind in its

own place and on its own work is the liberation of the

mind.

 

Q: What is the work of the mind?

 

M: The mind is the wife of the heart and the world

their home -- to

be kept bright and happy.

 

Q: I have not yet understood why, if nothing stands

in the way of

liberation, it does not happen here and now.

 

M: Nothing stands in the way of your liberation and

it can happen

here and now, but for your being more interested in

other things. And

you cannot fight with your interests. You must go with

them, see

through them and watch them reveal themselves as mere

errors of

judgement and appreciation.

 

Q: Will it not help me if I go and stay with some

great and holy

man?

 

M: Great and holy people are always within your

reach, but you do

not recognise them. How will you know who is great and

holy? By

hearsay? Can you trust others in these matters, or

even yourself? To

convince you beyond the shadow of doubt you need more

than a

commendation, more even than a momentary rapture. You

may come across

a great and holy man or women and not even know for a

long time your

good fortune. The infant son of a great man for many

years will not

know the greatness of his father. You must mature to

recognise

greatness and purify your heart for holiness. Or you

will spend your

time and money in vain and also miss what life offers

you. There are

good people among your friends -- you can learn much

from them.

Running after saints is merely another game to play.

Remember

yourself instead and watch your daily life

relentlessly. Be earnest,

and you shall not fail to break the bonds of

inattention and

imagination.

 

Q: Do you want me to struggle all alone?

 

M: You are never alone. There are powers and

presences who serve you

all the time most faithfully. You may or may not

perceive them,

nevertheless they are real and active. When you

realise that all is

in your mind and that you are beyond the mind, that

you are truly

alone; then all is you.

 

Q: What is omniscience? Is God omniscient? Are you

omniscient? We

hear the expression -- universal witness. What does it

mean? Does

self-realisation imply omniscience? Or is it a matter

of specialised

training?

 

M: To lose entirely all interest in knowledge results

in

omniscience. It is but the gift of knowing what needs

to be known, at

the right moment, for error-free action. After all,

knowledge is

needed for action and if you act rightly,

spontaneously, without

bringing in the conscious, so much the better.

 

Q: Can one know the mind of another person?

 

M: Know you own mind first. It contains the entire

universe and with

space to spare!

 

Q: Your working theory seems to be that the waking

state is not

basically different from dream and the dreamless

sleep. The three

states are essentially a case of mistaken

self-identification with

the body. Maybe it is true, but, I feel, it is not the

whole truth.

 

M: Do not try to know the truth, for knowledge by the

mind is not

true knowledge. But you can know what is not true --

which is enough

to liberate you from the false. The idea that you know

what is true

is dangerous, for it keeps you imprisoned in the mind.

It is when you

do not know, that you are free to investigate. And

there can be no

salvation, without investigation, because

non-investigation is the

main cause of bondage.

 

Q: You say that the illusion of the world begins

with the sense `I

am', but when I ask about the origin of the sense `I

am', you answer

that it has no origin, for on investigation it

dissolves. What is

solid enough to build the world on cannot be mere

illusion. The `I

am' is the only changeless factor I am conscious of;

how can it be

false?

 

M: It is not the `I am' that is false, but what you

take yourself to

be. I can see, beyond the least shadow of doubt, that

you are not

what you believe yourself to be. Logic or no logic,

you cannot deny

the obvious. You are nothing that you are conscious

of. Apply

yourself diligently to pulling apart the structure you

have built in

your mind. What the mind has done the mind must undo.

 

Q: You cannot deny the present moment, mind or no

mind. What is

now, is. You may question the appearance, but not the

fact. What is

at the root of the fact?

 

M: The `I am' is at the root of all appearance and

the permanent

link in the succession of events that we call life;

but I am beyond

the `I am'.

 

Q: I have found that the realised people usually

describe their

state in terms borrowed from their religion. You

happen to be a

Hindu, so you talk of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and use

Hindu

approaches and imagery. Kindly tell us, what is the

experience behind

your words? What reality do they refer to?

 

M: It is my way of talking, a language I was taught

to use.

 

Q: But what is behind the language?

 

M: How can I put it into words, except in negating

them? Therefore,

I use words like timeless, spaceless, causeless. These

too are words,

but as they are empty of meaning, they suit my

purpose.

 

Q: If they are meaningless, why use them?

 

M: Because you want words where no words apply.

 

Q: I can see your point. Again, you have robbed me

of my question!

 

89. Progress in Spiritual Life

Questioner: We are two girls from England, visiting

India. We know

little about Yoga and we are here because we were told

that spiritual

teachers play an important role in Indian life.

 

Maharaj: You are welcome. There is nothing new you

will find here.

The work we are doing is timeless. It was the same ten

thousand years

ago. Centuries roll on, but the human problem does not

change -- the

problem of suffering and the ending of suffering.

 

Q: The other day seven young foreigners have turned

up asking for a

place to sleep for a few nights. They came to see

their Guru who was

lecturing in Bombay. I met him -- a very pleasant

looking young man

is he -- apparently very matter-of-fact and efficient,

but with an

atmosphere of peace and silence about him. His

teaching is

traditional with stress on karma Yoga, selfless work,

service of the

Guru etc. Like the Gita, he says that selfless work

will result in

salvation. He is full of ambitious plans: training

workers who will

start spiritual centres in many countries. It seems he

gives them not

only the authority, but also the power to do the work

in his name.

 

M: Yes, there is such a thing as transmission of

power.

 

Q: When I was with them I had a strange feeling of

becoming

invisible. The devotees, in their surrender to their

Guru surrendered

me also! Whatever I did for them was their Guru's

doing and I was not

considered, except as a mere instrument. I was merely

a tap to turn

left or right. There was no personal relationship

whatsoever. They

tried a little to convert me to their faith; as soon

as they felt

resistance, they just dropped me from the field of

their attention.

Even between themselves they did not appear very much

related; it is

their common interest in their Guru that kept them

together. I found

it rather cold, almost inhuman. To consider oneself an

instrument in

God's hands is one thing; to be denied all attention

and

consideration because `all is God' may lead to

indifference verging

on cruelty. After all, all wars are made `in the name

of God'. The

entire history of mankind is a succession of `holy

wars'. One is

never so impersonal as in war!

 

M: To insist, to resist, are contained in the will to

be. Remove the

will to be and what remains? Existence and

non-existence relate to

something in space and time; here and now, there and

then, which

again are in the mind. The mind plays a guessing game;

it is ever

uncertain; anxiety-ridden and restless. You resent

being treated as a

mere instrument of some god, or Guru, and insist on

being treated as

a person, because you are not sure of your own

existence and do not

want to give up the comfort and assurance of a

personality. You may

not be what you believe yourself to be, but it gives

you continuity,

your future flows into the present and becomes the

past without

jolts. To be denied personal existence is frightening,

but you must

face it and find your identity with the totality of

life. Then the

problem of who is used by whom is no more.

 

Q: All the attention I got was an attempt to convert

me to their

faith. When I resisted they lost all interest in me.

 

M: One does not become a disciple by conversion, or

by accident.

There is usually an ancient link, maintained through

many lives and

flowering as love and trust, without which there is no

discipleship.

 

Q: What made you decide to become a teacher?

 

M: I was made into one by being called so. Who am I

to teach and

whom? What I am, you are, and what you are -- I am.

The `I am' is

common to us all; beyond the `I am' there is the

immensity of light

and love. We do not see it because we look elsewhere;

I can only

point at the sky; seeing of the star is your own work.

Some take more

time before they see the star, some take less; it

depends on the

clarity of their vision and their earnestness in

search. These two

must be their own -- I can only encourage.

 

Q: What am I expected to do when I become a

disciple?

 

M: Each teacher has his own method, usually patterned

on his Guru's

teachings and on the way he himself has realised, and

his own

terminology as well. Within that framework adjustments

to the

personality of the disciple are made. The disciple is

given full

freedom of thought and enquiry and encouraged to

question to his

heart's content. He must be absolutely certain of the

standing and

competence of his Guru, otherwise his faith will not

be absolute nor

his action complete. It is the absolute in you that

takes you to the

absolute beyond you -- absolute truth, love

selflessness are the

decisive factors in self-realisation. With earnestness

these can be

reached.

 

Q: I understand one must give up one's family and

possessions to

become a disciple.

 

M: It varies with the Guru. Some expect their mature

disciples to

become ascetics and recluses; some encourage family

life and duties.

Most of them consider a model family life more

difficult than

renunciation, suitable for a personality more mature

and better

balanced. At the early stages the discipline of

monastic life may be

advisable. Therefore, in the Hindu culture students up

to the age of

25 are expected to live like monks -- in poverty,

chastity and

obedience -- to give them a chance to build a

character able to meet

the hardships and temptations of married life.

 

Q: Who are the people in this room? Are they your

disciples?

 

M: Ask them. It is not on the verbal level that one

becomes a

disciple, but in the silent depths of one's being. You

do not become

a disciple by choice; it is more a matter of destiny

than self-will.

It does not matter much who is the teacher -- they all

wish you well.

It is the disciple that matters -- his honesty and

earnestness. The

right disciple will always find the right teacher.

 

Q: I can see the beauty and feel the blessedness of

a life devoted

to search for truth under a competent and loving

teacher.

Unfortunately, we have to return to England.

 

M: Distance does not matter. If your desires are

strong and true,

they will mould your life for their fulfilment. Sow

you seed and

leave it to the seasons.

 

Q: What are the signs of progress in spiritual life?

 

M: Freedom from anxiety; a sense of ease and joy;

deep peace within

and abundant energy without.

 

Q: How did you get it?

 

M: I found it all in the holy presence of my Guru --

I did nothing

on my own. He told me to be quiet -- and I did it --

as much as I

could.

 

Q: Is your presence as powerful as his?

 

M: How am I to know? For me -- his is the only

presence. If you are

with me, you are with him.

 

Q: Each Guru will refer me to his own Guru. Where is

the starting

point?

 

M: There is a power in the universe working for

enlightenment -- and

liberation. We call it Sadashiva, who is ever present

in the hearts

of men. It is the unifying factor. Unity -- liberates.

Freedom --

unites. Ultimately nothing is mine or yours --

everything is ours.

Just be one with yourself and you will be one with

all, at home in

the entire universe.

 

Q: You mean to say that all these glories will come

with the mere

dwelling on the feeling `I am'?

 

M: It is the simple that is certain, not the

complicated. Somehow,

people do not trust the simple, the easy, the always

available. Why

not give an honest trial to what I say? It may look

very small and

insignificant, but it is like a seed that grows into a

mighty tree.

Give yourself a chance!

 

Q: I see so many people sitting here -- quietly.

What for have they

come?

 

M: To meet themselves. At home the world is too much

with them. Here

nothing disturbs them; they have a chance to take

leave of their

daily worries and contact the essential in themselves.

 

Q: What is the course of training in self-awareness?

 

M: There is no need of training. Awareness is always

with you. The

same attention that you give to the outer, you turn to

the inner. No

new, or special kind of awareness is needed.

 

Q: Do you help people personally?

 

M: People come to discuss their problems. Apparently

they derive

some help, or they would not come.

 

Q: Are the talks with people always in public, or

will you talk to

them privately also?

 

M: It is according to their wish. Personally, I make

no distinction

between public and private.

 

Q: Are you always available, or have you other work

to do?

 

M: I am always available, but the hours in the

morning and late

afternoon are the most convenient.

 

Q: I understand that no work ranks higher than the

work of a

spiritual teacher.

 

M: The motive matters supremely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige

wrote:

>

> What are you trying to do here?

> Did someone ask to have <I AM> republished on line?

> P

> --- " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 a écrit :

>

> Pat, I can neither do nor try to do anything. It is done as in Thy

Will Be Done on Earth as it is in the Void of Heaven, No Joke. Peace

and benefaction..bob

>

> 80. Awareness

> Questioner: Does it take time to realise the Self, or

> time cannot

> help to realise? Is self-realisation a matter of time

> only, or does

> it depend on factors other than time?

>

> Maharaj: All waiting is futile. To depend on time to

> solve our

> problems is self-delusion. The future, left to itself

> merely repeats

> the past. Change can only happen now, never in the

> future.

>

> Q: What brings about a change?

>

> M: With crystal clarity see the need of change. This

> is all.

>

> Q: Does self-realisation happen in matter, or

> beyond? Is it not an

> experience depending on the body and the mind for its

> occurrence?

>

> M: All experience is illusory, limited and temporal.

> Expect nothing

> from experience. realisation by itself is not an

> experience, though

> it may lead to a new dimension of experiences. Yet the

> new

> experiences, however interesting, are not more real

> than the old.

> Definitely realisation is not a new experience. It is

> the discovery

> of the timeless factor in every experience. It is

> awareness, which

> makes experience possible. Just like in all the

> colours light is the

> colourless factor, so in every experience awareness is

> present, yet

> it is not an experience.

>

> Q: If awareness is not an experience, how can it be

> realised?

>

> M: Awareness is ever there. It need not be realised.

> Open the

> shutter of the mind, and it will be flooded with

> light.

>

> Q: What is matter?

>

> M: What you do not understand is matter.

>

> Q: Science understands matter.

>

> M: Science merely pushes back the frontiers of our

> ignorance.

>

> Q: And what is nature?

>

> M: The totality of conscious experiences is nature.

> As a conscious

> self you are a part of nature. As awareness, you are

> beyond. Seeing

> nature as mere consciousness is awareness.

>

> Q: Are there levels of awareness?

>

> M: There are levels in consciousness, but not in

> awareness. It is of

> one block, homogeneous. Its reflection in the mind is

> love and

> understanding. There are levels of clarity in

> understanding and

> intensity in love, but not in their source. The source

> is simple and

> single, but its gifts are infinite. Only do not take

> the gifts for

> the source. realise yourself as the source and not as

> the river; that

> is all.

>

> Q: I am the river too.

>

> M: Of course, you are. As an 'I am' you are the

> river, flowing

> between the banks of the body. But you are also the

> source and the

> ocean and the clouds in the sky. Wherever there is

> life and

> consciousness, you are. Smaller than the smallest,

> bigger than the

> biggest, you are, while all else appears.

>

> Q: The sense of being and the sense of living -- are

> they one and

> the same, or different?

>

> M: The identity in space creates one, the continuity

> in time creates

> the other.

>

> Q: You said once that the seer, seeing and the seen

> are one single

> thing, not three. To me the three are separate. I do

> not doubt your

> words, only I do not understand.

>

> M: Look closely and you will see that the seer and

> the seen appear

> only when there is seeing. They are attributes of

> seeing. When you

> say 'I am seeing this'. 'I am' and 'this' come with

> seeing, not

> before. You cannot have an unseen 'this' nor an

> unseeing 'I am'.

>

> Q: I can say: 'I do not see'.

>

> M: The 'I am seeing this' has become 'l am seeing my

> not seeing',

> or 'I am seeing darkness'. The seeing remains. In the

> triplicity: the

> known, knowing and the knower, only the knowing is a

> fact. The 'I am'

> and 'this' are doubtful. Who knows? What is known?

> There is no

> certainty, except that there is knowing.

>

> Q: Why am I sure of knowing, but not of the knower?

>

> M: Knowing is a reflection of your true nature along

> with being and

> loving. The knower and the known are added by the

> mind. It is in the

> nature of the mind to create a subject-object duality,

> where there is

> none.

>

> Q: What is the cause of desire and fear?

>

> M: Obviously, the memory of past pains and pleasures.

> There is no

> great mystery about it. Conflict arises only when

> desire and fear

> refer to the same object.

>

> Q: How to put an end to memory?

>

> M: It is neither necessary, nor possible. realise

> that all happens

> in consciousness and you are the root, the source, the

> foundation of

> consciousness. The world is but a succession of

> experiences and you

> are what makes them conscious, and yet remain beyond

> all experience.

> It is like the heat, the flame and the burning wood.

> The heat

> maintains the flame, the flame consumes the wood.

> Without heat there

> would be neither flame nor fuel. Similarly, without

> awareness there

> would be no consciousness, nor life, which transforms

> matter into a

> vehicle of consciousness.

>

> Q: You maintain that without me there would be no

> world, and that

> the world and my knowledge of the world are identical.

> Science has

> come to a quite different conclusion: the world exists

> as something

> concrete and continuous, while I am a by-product of

> biological

> evolution of the nervous system, which is primarily

> not so much a

> seat of consciousness, as a mechanism of survival as

> individual and

> species. Yours is altogether a subjective view, while

> science tries

> to describe everything in objective terms. Is this

> contradiction

> inevitable?

>

> M: The confusion is apparent and purely verbal. What

> is, is. It is

> neither subjective nor objective. Matter and mind are

> not separate,

> they are aspects of one energy. Look at the mind as a

> function of

> matter and you have science; look at matter as the

> product of the

> mind and you have religion.

>

> Q: But what is true? What comes first, mind or

> matter?

>

> M: Neither comes first. for neither appears alone.

> Matter is the

> shape, mind is the name. Together they make the world.

> Pervading and

> transcending is Reality, pure being -- awareness --

> bliss, your very

> essence.

>

> Q: All I know is the stream of consciousness, an

> endless succession

> of events. The river of time flows, bringing and

> carrying away

> relentlessly. Transformation of the future into past

> is going on all

> the time.

>

> M: Are you not the victim of your language? You speak

> about the flow

> of time, as if you were stationary. But the events you

> have witnessed

> yesterday somebody else may see tomorrow. It is you

> who are in

> movement and not time. Stop moving and time will

> cease.

>

> Q: What does it mean -- time will cease?

>

> M: Past and future will merge in the eternal now.

>

> Q: But what does it mean in actual experience? How

> do you know that

> for you time has ceased?

>

> M: It may mean that past and future do not matter any

> more. It may

> also mean that all that happened and will happen

> becomes an open book

> to be read at will.

>

> Q: I can imagine a sort of cosmic memory, accessible

> with some

> training. But how can the future be known? The

> unexpected is

> inevitable.

>

> M: What is unexpected on one level may be certain to

> happen, when

> seen from a higher level After all, we are within the

> limits of the

> mind. In reality nothing happens, there is no past nor

> future; all

> appears and nothing is.

>

> Q: What does it mean, nothing is? Do you turn blank,

> or go to

> sleep? Or do you dissolve the world and keep us all in

> abeyance,

> until we are brought back to life at the next flicker

> of your thought?

>

> M: Oh, no, it is not that bad. The world of mind and

> matter, of

> names and shapes, continues, but it does not matter to

> me at all. It

> is like having a shadow. It is there -- following me

> wherever I go,

> but not hindering me in any way. It remains a world of

> experiences,

> but not of names and forms related to me by desires

> and fears. The

> experiences are qualityless, pure experiences, if I

> may say so. I

> call them experiences for the lack of a better word.

> They are like

> the waves on the surface of the ocean, the

> ever-present, but not

> affecting its peaceful power.

>

> Q: You mean to say an experience can be nameless,

> formless,

> undefined?

>

> M: In the beginning all experience is such. It is

> only desire and

> fear, born of memory, that give it name and form and

> separate it from

> other experiences. It is not a conscious experience,

> for it is not in

> opposition to other experiences, yet it is an

> experience all the same.

>

> Q: If it is not conscious, why talk about it?

>

> M: Most of your experiences are unconscious. The

> conscious ones are

> very few. You are unaware of the fact because to you

> only the

> conscious ones count. Become aware of the unconscious

> .

>

> Q: Can one be aware of the unconscious? How is it

> done?

>

> M: Desire and fear are the obscuring and distorting

> factors. When

> mind is free of them the unconscious becomes

> accessible.

>

> Q: Does it mean that the unconscious becomes

> conscious?

>

> M: It is rather the other way round. The conscious

> becomes one with

> the unconscious. The distinction ceases, whichever way

> you look at it.

>

> Q: I am puzzled. How can one be aware and yet

> unconscious?

>

> M: Awareness is not limited to consciousness. It is

> of all that is.

> Consciousness is of duality. There is no duality in

> awareness. It is

> one single block of pure cognition. In the same way

> one can talk of

> the pure being and pure creation -- nameless,

> formless, silent and

> yet absolutely real, powerful, effective. Their being

> indescribable

> does not affect them in the least. While they are

> unconscious, they

> are essential. The conscious cannot change

> fundamentally, it can only

> modify. Any thing, to change, must pass through death,

> through

> obscuration and dissolution. Gold jewellery must be

> melted down

> before it is cast into another shape. What refuses to

> die cannot be

> reborn.

>

> Q: Barring the death of the body, how does one die?

>

> M: Withdrawal, aloofness, letting go is death. To

> live fully, death

> is essential; every ending makes a new beginning. On

> the other hand,

> do understand, that only the dead can die, not the

> living. That which

> is alive in you, is immortal.

>

> Q: From where does desire draw its energy?

>

> M: Its name and shape it draws from memory. The

> energy flows from

> the source.

>

> Q: Some desires are altogether wrong. How can wrong

> desires flow

> from a sublime source?

>

> M: The source is neither right nor wrong. Nor is

> desire by itself

> right or wrong. It is nothing but striving for

> happiness. Having

> identified yourself with a speck of a body you feel

> lost and search

> desperately for the sense of fullness and completeness

> you call

> happiness.

>

> Q: When did I lose it? I never had it.

>

> M: You had it before you woke up this morning. Go

> beyond your

> consciousness and you will find it.

>

> Q: How am I to go beyond?

>

> M: You know it already; do it.

>

> Q: That's what you say. I know nothing about it.

>

> M: Yet I repeat -- you know it. Do it. Go beyond,

> back to your

> normal, natural, supreme state.

>

> Q: I'm puzzled.

>

> M: A speck in the eye makes you think you are blind.

> Wash it out and

> look.

>

> Q: I do look! I see only darkness.

>

> M: Remove the speck and your eyes will be flooded

> with light. The

> light is there -- waiting. The eyes are there --

> ready. The darkness

> you see is but the shadow of the tiny speck. Get rid

> of it and come

> back to your natural state.

>

> 81. Root Cause of Fear

> Maharaj: Where do you come from?

>

> Questioner: I am from the United States, but I live

> mostly in Europe.

> To India I came recently. I was in Rishikesh, in two

> Ashrams. I was

> taught meditation and breathing.

>

> M: How long were you there?

>

> Q: Eight days in one, six days in another. I was not

> happy there

> and I left. Then for three weeks I was with the

> Tibetan Lamas. But

> they were all wrapped up in formulas and rituals.

>

> M: And what was the net result of it all?

>

> Q: Definitely there was an increase of energy. But

> before I left

> for Rishikesh, I did some fasting and dieting at a

> Nature Cure

> Sanatorium at Pudukkotai in South India. It has done

> me enormous good.

>

> M: Maybe the access of energy was due to better

> health.

>

> Q: I cannot say. But as a result of all these

> attempts some fires

> started burning in various places in my body and I

> heard chants and

> voices where there were none.

>

> M: And what are you after now?

>

> Q: Well, what are we all after? Some truth, some

> inner certainty,

> some real happiness. In the various schools of

> self-realisation there

> is so much talk of awareness, that one ends with the

> impression that

> awareness itself is the supreme reality. Is it so? The

> body is looked

> after by the brain, the brain is illumined by

> consciousness;

> awareness watches over consciousness; is there

> anything beyond

> awareness?

>

> M: How do you know that you are aware?

>

> Q: I feel that I am. I cannot express it otherwise.

>

> M: When you follow it up carefully from brain through

> consciousness

> to awareness, you find that the sense of duality

> persists. When you

> go beyond awareness, there is a state of non-duality,

> in which there

> is no cognition, only pure being, which may be as well

> called non-

> being, if by being you mean being something in

> particular.

>

> Q: What you call pure being is it universal being,

> being everything?

>

> M: Everything implies a collection of particulars. In

> pure being the

> very idea of the particular is absent.

>

> Q: Is there any relationship between pure being and

> particular

> being?

>

> M: What relationship can there be between what is and

> what merely

> appears to be? Is there any relationship between the

> ocean and its

> waves? The real enables the unreal to appear and

> causes it to

> disappear. the succession of transient moments creates

> the illusion

> of time, but the timeless reality of pure being is not

> in movement,

> for all movement requires a motionless background. It

> is itself the

> background. Once you have found it in yourself, you

> know that you had

> never lost that independent being, independent of all

> divisions and

> separations. But don't look for it in consciousness,

> you will not

> find it there. Don't look for it anywhere, for nothing

> contains it.

> On the contrary, it contains everything and manifests

> everything. It

> is like the daylight that makes everything visible

> while itself

> remaining invisible.

>

> Q: Sir, of what use to me is your telling me that

> reality cannot be

> found in consciousness? Where else am I to look for

> it? How do you

> apprehend it?

>

> M: It is quite simple. If I ask you what is the taste

> of your mouth

> all you can do is to say: it is neither sweet nor

> bitter, nor sour

> nor astringent; it is what remains when all these

> tastes are not.

> Similarly, when all distinctions and reactions are no

> more, what

> remains is reality, simple and solid.

>

> Q: All that I understand is that I am in the grip of

> a

> beginningless illusion. And I do not see how it can

> come to an end.

> If it could, it would -- long ago. I must have had as

> many

> opportunities in the past as I shall have in the

> future. What could

> not happen cannot happen. Or, if it did, it could not

> last. Our very

> deplorable state after all these untold millions of

> years carries, at

> best, the promise of ultimate extinction, or, which is

> worse, the

> threat of an endless and meaningless repetition.

>

> M: What proof have you that your present state is

> beginningless and

> endless? How were you before you were born? How will

> you be after

> death? And of your present state -- how much do you

> know? You do not

> know even what was your condition before you woke up

> this morning?

> You only know a little of your present state and from

> it you draw

> conclusions for all times and places. You may be just

> dreaming and

> imagining your dream to be eternal.

>

> Q: Calling it a dream does not change the situation.

> I repeat my

> question: what hope is left which the eternity behind

> me could not

> fulfil? Why should my future be different from my

> past?

>

> M: In your fevered state, you project a past and a

> future and take

> them to be real. In fact, you know only your present

> moment. Why not

> investigate what is now, instead of questioning the

> imaginary past

> and future? Your present state is neither

> beginningless nor endless.

> If is over in a flash. Watch carefully from where it

> comes and where

> it goes. You will soon discover the timeless reality

> behind it.

>

> Q: Why have I not done it before?

>

> M: Just as every wave subsides into the ocean, so

> does every moment

> return to its source. realisation consists in

> discovering the source

> and abiding there.

>

> Q: Who discovers?

>

> M: The mind discovers.

>

> Q: Does it find the answers?

>

> M: It finds that it is left without questions, that

> no answers are

> needed.

>

> Q: Being born is a fact. Dying is another fact. How

> do they appear

> to the witness?

>

> M: A child was born; a man has died -- just events in

> the course of

> time.

>

> Q: Is there any progress in the witness? Does

> awareness evolve?

>

> M: What is seen may undergo many changes when the

> light of awareness

> is focussed on it, but it is the object that changes,

> not the light.

> Plants grow in sunlight, but the sun does not grow. By

> themselves

> both the body and the witness are motionless, but when

> brought

> together in the mind, both appear to move.

>

> Q: Yes, I can see that what moves and changes is the

> 'I am' only.

> Is the 'I am' needed at all?

>

> M: Who needs it? It is there -- now. It had a

> beginning it will have

> an end.

>

> Q: What remains when the `I am' goes?

>

> M: What does not come and go -- remains. It is the

> ever greedy mind

> that creates ideas of progress and evolution towards

> perfection. It

> disturbs and talks of order, destroys and seeks

> security.

>

> Q: Is there progress in destiny, in karma?

>

> M: Karma is only a store of unspent energies, of

> unfulfilled desires

> and fears not understood. The store is being

> constantly replenished

> by new desires and fears. It need not be so for ever.

> Understand the

> root cause of your fears -- estrangement from

> yourself: and of

> desires -- the longing for the self, and your karma

> will dissolve

> like a dream. Between earth and heaven life goes on.

> Nothing is

> affected, only bodies grow and decay.

>

> Q: Between the person and the witness, what is the

> relation?

>

> M: There can be no relation between them because they

> are one. Don't

> separate and don't look for relationship.

>

> Q: If the seer and the seen are one, how did the

> separation occur?

>

> M: Fascinated by names and forms, which are by their

> very nature

> distinct and diverse, you distinguish what is natural

> and separate

> what is one. The world is rich in diversity, but your

> feeling strange

> and frightened is due to misapprehension. It is the

> body that is in

> danger, not you.

>

> Q: I can see that the basic biological anxiety, the

> flight

> instinct, takes many shapes and distorts my thoughts

> and feelings.

> But how did this anxiety come into being?

>

> M: It is a mental state caused by the 'I-am-the-body'

> idea. It can

> be removed by the contrary idea: 'I-am-not-the-body'.

> Both the ideas

> are false, but one removes the other. realise that no

> ideas are your

> own, they all come to you from outside. You must think

> it all out for

> yourself, become yourself the object of your

> meditation. The effort

> to understand yourself is Yoga. Be a Yogi, give your

> life to it,

> brood, wonder, search, till you come to the root of

> error and to the

> truth beyond the error.

>

> Q: In meditation, who meditates, the person or the

> witness?

>

> M: Meditation is a deliberate attempt to pierce into

> the higher

> states of consciousness and finally go beyond it. The

> art of

> meditation is the art of shifting the focus of

> attention to ever

> subtler levels, without losing one's grip on the

> levels left behind.

> In a way it is like having death under control. One

> begins with the

> lowest levels: social circumstances, customs and

> habits; physical

> surroundings, the posture and the breathing of the

> body, the senses,

> their sensations and perceptions; the mind, its

> thoughts and

> feelings; until the entire mechanism of personality is

> grasped and

> firmly held. The final stage of meditation is reached

> when the sense

> of identity goes beyond the 'I-am-so-and-so', beyond

> 'so-l-am',

> beyond 'I-am-the-witness-only', beyond 'there-is',

> beyond all ideas

> into the impersonally personal pure being. But you

> must be energetic

> when you take to meditation. It is definitely not a

> part-time

> occupation. Limit your interests and activities to

> what is needed for

> you and your dependents' barest needs. Save all your

> energies and

> time for breaking the wall your mind had built around

> you. Believe

> me, you will not regret.

>

> Q: How do I come to know that my experience is

> universal?

>

> M: At the end of your meditation all is known

> directly, no proofs

> whatsoever are required. Just as every drop of the

> ocean carries the

> taste of the ocean, so does every moment carry the

> taste of eternity.

> Definitions and descriptions have their place as

> useful incentives

> for further search, but you must go beyond them into

> what is

> undefinable and indescribable, except in negative

> terms.

>

> After all, even universality and eternity are mere

> concepts, the

> opposites of being place and time-bound. Reality is

> not a concept,

> nor the manifestation of a concept. It has nothing to

> do with

> concepts. Concern yourself with your mind, remove its

> distortions and

> impurities. Once you had the taste of your own self,

> you will find it

> everywhere and at all times. Therefore, it is so

> important that you

> should come to it. Once you know it, you will never

> lose it.

>

> But you must give yourself the opportunity through

> intensive, even

> arduous meditation.

>

> Q: What exactly do you want me to do?

>

> M: Give your heart and mind to brooding over the 'I

> am', what is it,

> how is it, what is its source, its life, its meaning.

> It is very much

> like digging a well. You reject all that is not water,

> till you reach

> the life-giving spring.

>

> Q: How shall I know that I am moving in the right

> direction?

>

> M: By your progress in intentness, in clarity and

> devotion to the

> task.

>

> Q: We, Europeans, find it very difficult to keep

> quiet. The world

> is too much with us.

>

> M: Oh, no, you are dreamers too. We differ only in

> the contents of

> our dreams. You are after perfection -- in the future.

> We are intent

> on finding it -- in the now. The limited only is

> perfectible. The

> unlimited is already perfect. You are perfect, only

> you don't know

> it. Learn to know yourself and you will discover

> wonders.

>

> All you need is already within you, only you must

> approach your self

> with reverence and love. Self-condemnation and

> self-distrust are

> grievous errors. Your constant flight from pain and

> search for

> pleasure is a sign of love you bear for your self, all

> I plead with

> you is this: make love of your self perfect. Deny

> yourself nothing --

> glue your self infinity and eternity and discover that

> you do not

> need them; you are beyond.

>

> 82. Absolute Perfection is Here and Now

> Questioner: The war is on. What is your attitude to

> it?

>

> Maharaj: In some place or other, in some form or

> other, the war is

> always on. Was there a time when there was no war?

> Some say it is the

> will of God. Some say it is God's play. It is another

> way of saying

> that wars are inevitable and nobody is responsible.

>

> Q: But what is your own attitude?

>

> M: Why impose attitudes on me? I have no attitude to

> call my own.

>

> Q: Surely somebody is responsible for this horrible

> and senseless

> carnage. Why do people kill each other so readily?

>

> M: Search for the culprit within. The ideas of 'me'

> and 'mine' are

> at the root of all conflict. Be free of them and you

> will be out of

> conflict.

>

> Q: What of it that I am out of conflict? It will not

> affect the

> war. If I am the cause of war, I am ready to be

> destroyed. Yet, it

> stands to reason that the disappearance of a thousand

> like me will

> not stop wars. They did not start with my birth nor

> will end with my

> death. I am not Responsible. Who is?

>

> M: Strife and struggle are a part of existence. Why

> don't you

> enquire who is responsible for existence?

>

> Q: Why do you say that existence and conflict are

> inseparable? Can

> there be no existence without strife? I need not fight

> others to be

> myself.

>

> M: You fight others all the time for your survival as

> a separate

> body-mind, a particular name and form. To live you

> must destroy. From

> the moment you were conceived you started a war with

> your

> environment -- a merciless war of mutual

> extermination, until death

> sets you free.

>

> Q: My question remains unanswered. You are merely

> describing what I

> know -- life and its sorrows. But who is responsible,

> you do not say.

> When I press you, you throw the blame on God, or

> karma, or on my own

> greed and fear -- which merely invites further

> questions. Give me the

> final answer.

>

> M: The final answer is this: nothing is. All is a

> momentary

> appearance in the field of the universal

> consciousness; continuity as

> name and form is a mental formation only, easy to

> dispel.

>

> Q: I am asking about the immediate, the transitory,

> the appearance.

> Here is a picture of a child killed by soldiers. It is

> a fact --

> staring at you. You cannot deny it. Now, who is

> responsible for the

> death of the child?

>

> M: Nobody and everybody. The world is what it

> contains and each

> thing affects all others. We all kill the child and we

> all die with

> it. Every event has innumerable causes and produces

> numberless

> effects. It is useless to keep accounts, nothing is

> traceable.

>

> Q: Your people speak of karma and retribution.

>

> M: It is merely a gross approximation: in reality we

> are all

> creators and creatures of each other, causing and

> bearing each

> other's burden.

>

> Q: So, the innocent suffers for the guilty?

>

> M: In our ignorance we are innocent; in our actions

> we are guilty.

> We sin without knowing and suffer without

> understanding. Our only

> hope: to stop, to look, to understand and to get out

> of the traps of

> memory. For memory feeds imagination and imagination

> generates desire

> and fear.

>

> Q: Why do I imagine at all?

>

> M: The light of consciousness passes through the film

> of memory and

> throws pictures on your brain. Because of the

> deficient and

> disordered state of your brain, what you perceive is

> distorted and

> coloured by feelings of like and dislike. Make your

> thinking orderly

> and free from emotional overtones, and you will see

> people and things

> as they are, with clarity and charity.

>

> The witness of birth, life and death is one and the

> same. It is the

> witness of pain and of love. For while the existence

> in limitation

> and separation is sorrowful, we love it. We love it

> and hate it at

> the same time. We fight, we kill, we destroy life and

> property and

> yet we are affectionate and self-sacrificing. We nurse

> the child

> tenderly and orphan it too. Our life is full of

> contradictions. Yet

> we cling to it. This clinging is at the root of

> everything. Still, it

> is entirely superficial. We hold on to something or

> somebody, with

> all our might and next moment we forget it; like a

> child that shapes

> its mud-pies and abandons them light-heartedly. Touch

> them -- it will

> scream with anger, divert the child and he forgets

> them. For our life

> is now, and the love of it is now. We love variety,

> the play of pain

> and pleasure, we are fascinated by contrasts. For this

> we need the

> opposites and their apparent separation. We enjoy them

> for a time and

> then get tired and crave for the peace and silence of

> pure being. The

> cosmic heart beats ceaselessly. I am the witness and

> the heart too.

>

> Q: I can see the picture, but who is the painter?

> Who is

> responsible for this terrible and yet adorable

> experience?

>

> M: The painter is in the picture. You separate the

> painter from the

> picture and look for him. Don't separate and don't put

> false

> questions. Things are as they are and nobody in

> particular is

> responsible. The idea of personal responsibility comes

> from the

> illusion of agency. 'Somebody must have done it,

> somebody is

> responsible'. Society as it is now, with its framework

> of laws and

> customs, is based on the idea of a separate and

> responsible

> personality, but this is not the only form a society

> can take. There

> may be other forms, where the sense of separation is

> weak and

> responsibility diffused.

>

> Q: An individual with a weak sense of personality --

> is he nearer

> self-realisation?

>

> M: Take the case of a young child. The sense of

> 'I-am' is not yet

> formed, the personality is rudimentary. The obstacles

> to self

> knowledge are few, but the power and the clarity of

> awareness, its

> width and depth are lacking. In the course of years

> awareness will

> grow stronger, but also the latent personality will

> emerge and

> obscure and complicate. Just as the harder the wood,

> the hotter the

> flame, so the stronger the personality, brighter the

> light generated

> from its destruction.

>

> Q: Have you no problems?

>

> M: I do have problems. I told you already. To be, to

> exist with a

> name and form is painful, yet I love it.

>

> Q: But you love everything!

>

> M: In existence everything is contained. My very

> nature is to love;

> even the painful is lovable.

>

> Q: It does not make it less painful. Why not remain

> in the

> unlimited?

>

> M: It is the instinct of exploration, the love of the

> unknown, that

> brings me into existence. It is in the nature of being

> to see

> adventure in becoming, as it is in the very nature of

> becoming to

> seek peace in being. This alteration of being and

> becoming is

> inevitable; but my home is beyond.

>

> Q: Is your home in God?

>

> M: To love and worship a god is also ignorance. My

> home is beyond

> all notions, however sublime.

>

> Q: But God is not a notion! It is the reality beyond

> existence.

>

> M: You may use any word you like. Whatever you may

> think of am

> beyond it.

>

> Q: Once you know your home, why not stay in it? What

> takes you out

> of it?

>

> M: Out of love for corporate existence one is born

> and once born,

> one gets involved in destiny. Destiny is inseparable

> from becoming.

> The desire to be the particular makes you into a

> person with all its

> personal past and future. Look at some great man, what

> a wonderful

> man he was! And yet how troubled was his life and

> limited its fruits.

> How utterly dependent is the personality of man and

> how indifferent

> is its world. And yet we love it and protect it for

> its very

> insignificance.

>

> Q: The war is on and there is chaos and you are

> being asked to take

> charge of a feeding centre. You are given what is

> needed, it is only

> a question of getting through the job. Will you refuse

> it?

>

> M: To work, or not to work, is one and the same to

> me. I may take

> charge, or may not. There may be others, better

> endowed for such

> tasks, than I am -- professional caterers for

> instance. But my

> attitude is different. I do not look at death as a

> calamity as I do

> not rejoice at the birth of a child. The child is out

> for trouble

> while the dead is out of it. Attachment to life is

> attachment to

> sorrow. We love what gives us pain. Such is our

> nature.

>

> For me the moment of death will be a moment of

> jubilation, not of

> fear. I cried when I was born and I shall die

> laughing.

>

> Q: What is the change in consciousness at the moment

> of death?

>

> M: What change do you expect? When the film

> projection ends all

> remains the same as when it started. The state before

> you were born

> was also the state after death, if you remember.

>

> Q: I remember nothing.

>

> M: Because you never tried. It is only a question of

> tuning in the

> mind. It requires training, of course.

>

> Q: Why don't you take part in social work?

>

> M: But I am doing nothing else all the time! And what

> is the social

> work you want me to do? Patchwork is not for me. My

> stand is clear:

> produce to distribute, feed before you eat, give

> before you take,

> think of others, before you think of yourself. Only a

> selfless

> society based on sharing can be stable and happy. This

> is the only

> practical solution. If you do not want it -- fight.

>

> Q: It is all a matter of gunas. Where tamas and

> rajas predominate,

> there must be war. Where sattva rules, there will be

> peace.

>

> M: Put it whichever way you like, it comes to the

> same. Society is

> built on motives. Put goodwill into the foundations

> and you will not

> need specialised social workers.

>

> Q: The world is getting better.

>

> M: The world had all the time to get better, yet it

> did not. What

> hope is there for the future? Of course, there have

> been and will be

> periods of harmony and peace, when sattva was in

> ascendance, but

> things get destroyed by their own perfection. A

> perfect society is

> necessarily static and, therefore, it stagnates and

> decays. From the

> summit all roads lead downwards. Societies are like

> people -- they

> are born, they grow to some point of relative

> perfection and then

> decay and die.

>

> Q: Is there not a state of absolute perfection which

> does not decay?

>

> M: Whatever has a beginning must have an end. In the

> timeless all is

> perfect, here and now.

>

> Q: But shall we reach the timeless in due course?

>

> M: In due course we shall come back to the starting

> point. Time

> cannot take us out of time, as space cannot take us

> out of space. All

> you get by waiting is more waiting. Absolute

> perfection is here and

> now, not in some future, near or far. The secret is in

> action -- here

> and now. It is your behaviour that blinds you to

> yourself. Disregard

> whatever you think yourself to be and act as if you

> were absolutely

> perfect -- whatever your idea of perfection may be.

> All you need is

> courage.

>

> Q: Where do I find such courage?

>

> M: In yourself, of course. Look within.

>

> Q: Your grace will help

>

> M: My grace is telling you now: look within. All you

> need you have.

> Use it. Behave as best you know, do what you think you

> should. Don't

> be afraid of mistakes; you can always correct them,

> only intentions

> matter. The shape things take is not within your

> power; the motives

> of your actions are.

>

> Q: How can action born from imperfection lead to

> perfection?

>

> M: Action does not lead to perfection; perfection is

> expressed in

> action. As long as you judge yourself by your

> expressions give them

> utmost attention; when you realise your own being your

> behaviour will

> be perfect -- spontaneously.

>

> Q: If I am timelessly perfect, then why was I born

> at all? What is

> the purpose of this life?

>

> M: It is like asking: what does it profit gold to be

> made into an

> ornament? The ornament gets the colour and the beauty

> of gold; gold

> is not enriched. Similarly, reality expressed in

> action makes the

> action meaningful and beautiful.

>

> Q: What does the real gain through its expressions?

>

> M: What can it gain? Nothing whatsoever. But it is in

> the nature of

> love to express itself, to affirm itself, to overcome

> difficulties.

> Once you have understood that the world is love in

> action, you will

> look at it quite differently. But first your attitude

> to suffering

> must change. Suffering is primarily a call for

> attention, which

> itself is a movement of love. More than happiness,

> love wants growth,

> the widening and deepening of consciousness and being.

> Whatever

> prevents becomes a cause of pain, and love does not

> shirk from pain.

> Sattva, the energy that works for righteousness and

> orderly

> development, must not be thwarted. When obstructed it

> turns against

> itself and becomes destructive. Whenever love is

> withheld and

> suffering allowed to spread, war becomes inevitable.

> Our indifference

> to our neighbour's sorrow brings suffering to our

> door.

>

> 83. The True Guru

> Questioner: You were saying the other day that at the

> root of your

> realisation was the trust in your Guru. He assured you

> that you were

> already the Absolute Reality and there was nothing

> more to be done.

> You trusted him and left it at that, without

> straining, without

> striving. Now, my question is: without trust in your

> Guru would you

> have realised? After all, what you are, You are,

> whether your mind

> trusts or not; would doubt obstruct the action of the

> Guru's words

> and make them inoperative?

>

> Maharaj: You have said it -- they would have been made

> inoperative --

> for a time.

>

> Q: And what would happen to the energy, or power in

> the Guru's

> words?

>

> M: It would remain latent, unmanifested. But the

> entire question is

> based on a misunderstanding. The master, the disciple,

> the love and

> trust between them, these are one fact, not so many

> independent

> facts. Each is a part of the other. Without love and

> trust there

> would have been no Guru nor disciple, and no

> relationship between

> them. It is like pressing a switch to light an

> electric lamp. It is

> because the lamp, the wiring, the switch, the

> transformer, the

> transmission lines and the power house form a single

> whole, that you

> get the light. Any one factor missing and there would

> be no light.

> You must not separate the inseparable. Words do not

> create facts;

> they either describe them or distort. The fact is

> always non-verbal.

>

> Q: I still do not understand; can the Guru's word

> remain

> unfulfilled or will it invariably prove true?

>

> M: Words of a realised man never miss their purpose.

> They wait for

> the right conditions to arise which may take some

> time, and. this is

> natural, for there is a season for sowing and a season

> for

> harvesting. But the word of a Guru is a seed that

> cannot perish. Of

> course, the Guru must be a real one, who is beyond the

> body and the

> mind, beyond consciousness itself, beyond space and

> time, beyond

> duality and unity, beyond understanding and

> description. The good

> people who have read a lot and have a lot to say, may

> teach you many

> useful things, but they are not the real Gurus whose

> words invariably

> come true. They also may tell you that you are the

> ultimate reality

> itself, but what of it?

>

> Q: Nevertheless, if for some reason I happen to

> trust them and

> obey, shall I be the loser?

>

> M: If you are able to trust and obey, you will soon

> find your real

> Guru, or rather, he will find you.

>

> Q: Does every knower of the Self become a Guru, or

> can one be a

> knower of Reality without being able to take others to

> it?

>

> M: If you know what you teach, you can teach what you

> know, Here

> seership and teachership are one. But the Absolute

> Reality is beyond

> both. The self-styled Gurus talk of ripeness and

> effort, of merits

> and achievements, of destiny and grace; all these are

> mere mental

> formations, projections of an addicted mind. Instead

> of helping, they

> obstruct.

>

> Q: How can I make out whom to follow and whom to

> mistrust?

>

> M: Mistrust all, until you are convinced. The true

> Guru will never

> humiliate you, nor will he estrange you from yourself.

> He will

> constantly bring you back to the fact of your inherent

> perfection and

> encourage you to seek within. He knows you need

> nothing, not even

> him, and is never tired of reminding you. But the self

> appointed Guru

> is more concerned with himself than with his

> disciples.

>

> Q: You said that reality is beyond the knowledge and

> the teaching

> of the real. Is not the knowledge of reality the

> supreme itself and

> teaching the proof of its attainment?

>

> M: The knowledge of the real, or the self, is a state

> of mind.

> Teaching another is a movement in duality. They

> concern the mind

> only; sattva is a Guna all the same.

>

> Q: What is real then?

>

> M: He who knows the mind as non-realised and

> realised, who knows

> ignorance and knowledge as states of mind, he is the

> real. When you

> are given diamonds mixed with gravel, you may either

> miss the

> diamonds or find them. It is the seeing that matters.

> Where is the

> greyness of the gravel and the beauty of the diamond,

> without the

> power to see? The known is but a shape and knowledge

> is but a name.

> The knower is but a state of mind. The real is beyond.

>

> Q: Surely, objective knowledge and ideas of things

> and self

> knowledge are not one and the same thing. One needs a

> brain, the

> other does not.

>

> M: For the purpose of discussion you can arrange

> words and give them

> meaning, but the fact remains that all knowledge is a

> form of

> ignorance. The most accurate map is yet only paper.

> All knowledge is

> in memory; it is only recognition, while reality is

> beyond the

> duality of the knower and the known.

>

> Q: Then by what is reality known?

>

> M: How misleading is your language! You assume,

> unconsciously, that

> reality also is approachable through knowledge. And

> then you will

> bring in a knower of reality beyond reality! Do

> understand that to

> be, reality need not be known. Ignorance and knowledge

> are in the

> mind, not in the real.

>

> Q: If there is no such thing as the knowledge of the

> real, then how

> do I reach it?

>

> M: You need not reach out for what is already with

> you. Your very

> reaching out makes you miss it. Give up the idea that

> you have not

> found it and just let it come into the focus of direct

> perception,

> here and now, by removing all that is of the mind.

>

> Q: When all that can go, goes, what remains?

>

> M: Emptiness remains, awareness remains, pure light

> of the conscious

> being remains. It is like asking what remains of a

> room when all the

> furniture is removed? A most serviceable room remains.

> And when even

> the walls are pulled down, space remains. Beyond space

> and time is

> the here and the now of reality.

>

> Q: Does the witness remain?

>

> M: As long as there is consciousness, its witness is

> also there. The

> two appear and disappear together.

>

> Q: If the witness too is transient, why is he given

> so much

> importance?

>

> M: Just to break the spell of the known, the illusion

> that only the

> perceivable is real.

>

> Q: Perception is primary, the witness -- secondary.

>

> M: This is the heart of the matter. As long as you

> believe that only

> the outer world is real, you remain its slave. To

> become free, your

> attention must be drawn to the 'I am', the witness. Of

> course, the

> knower and the known are one not two, but to break the

> spell of the

> known the knower must be brought to the forefront.

> Neither is

> primary, both are reflections in memory of the

> ineffable experience,

> ever new and ever now, untranslatable, quicker than

> the mind.

>

> Q: Sir, I am an humble seeker, wandering from Guru

> to Guru in

> search of release. My mind is sick, burning with

> desire, frozen with

> fear. My days flit by, red with pain, grey with

> boredom. My age is

> advancing, my health decaying, my future dark and

> frightening. At

> this rate I shall live in sorrow and die in despair.

> Is there any

> hope for me? Or have I come too late?

>

> M: Nothing is wrong with you, but the ideas you have

> of yourself are

> altogether wrong. It is not you who desires, fears and

> suffers, it is

> the person built on the foundation of your body by

> circumstances and

> influences. You are not that person. This must be

> clearly established

> in your mind and never lost sight of. Normally, it

> needs a prolonged

> sadhana, years of austerities and meditation.

>

> Q: My mind is weak and vacillating. I have neither

> the strength nor

> the tenacity for sadhana. My case, is hopeless.

>

> M: In a way yours is a most hopeful case. There is an

> alternative to

> sadhana, which is trust. If you cannot have the

> conviction born from

> fruitful search, then take advantage of my discovery,

> which I am so

> eager to share with you. I can see with the utmost

> clarity that you

> have never been, nor are, nor will be estranged from

> realty, that you

> are the fullness of perfection here and now and that

> nothing can

> deprive you of your heritage, of what you are. You are

> in no way

> different from me, only you do not know it. You do not

> know what you

> are and therefore you imagine your self to be what you

> are not. Hence

> desires and fear and overwhelming despair. And

> meaningless activity

> in order to escape.

>

> Just trust me and live by trusting me. I shall not

> mislead you. You

> are the Supreme Reality beyond the world and its

> creator, beyond

> consciousness and its witness, beyond all assertions

> and denials.

> Remember it, think of it, act on it. Abandon all sense

> of separation,

> see yourself in all and act accordingly. With action

> bliss will come

> and, with bliss, conviction. After all, you doubt

> yourself because

> you are in sorrow. Happiness, natural, spontaneous and

> lasting cannot

> be imagined. Either it is there, or it is not. Once

> you begin to

> experience the peace, love and happiness which need no

> outer causes,

> all your doubts will dissolve. Just catch hold of what

> I told you and

> live by it.

>

> Q: You are telling me to live by memory?

>

> M: You are living by memory anyhow. I am merely

> asking you to

> replace the old memories by the memory of what I told

> you. As you

> were acting on your old memories, act on the new one.

> Don't be

> afraid. For some time there is bound to be a conflict

> between the old

> and the new, but if you put yourself resolutely on the

> side of the

> new, the strife will soon come to an end and you will

> realise the

> effortless state of being oneself, of not being

> deceived by desires

> and fears born of illusion.

>

> Q: Many Gurus have the habit of giving tokens of

> their grace --

> their head cloth, or their sticks, or begging bowl, or

> robe, thus

> transmitting or confirming the self-realisation of

> their disciples. I

> can see no value in such practices. It is not

> self-realisation that

> is transmitted, but self-importance. Of what earthly

> use is being

> told something very flattering, but not true? On one

> hand you are

> warning me against the many self-styled Gurus, on the

> other you want

> me to trust you. Why do you claim to be an exception?

>

> M: I do not ask you to trust me. Trust my words and

> remember them, I

> want your happiness, not mine. Distrust those who put

> a distance

> between you and your true being and offer themselves

> as a go-between.

> I do nothing of the kind. I do not even make any

> promises. I merely

> say: if you trust my words and put them to test, you

> will for

> yourself discover how absolutely true they are. If you

> ask for a

> proof before you venture, I can only say: I am the

> proof. I did trust

> my teacher's words and kept them in my mind and I did

> find that he

> was right, that I was, am and shall be the Infinite

> Reality,

> embracing all, transcending all.

>

> As you say, you have neither the time nor the energy

> for lengthy

> practices. I offer you an alternative. Accept my words

> on trust and

> live anew, or live and die in sorrow.

>

> Q: It seems too good to be true.

>

> M: Don't be misled by the simplicity of the advice.

> '\very few are

> those who have the courage to trust the innocent and

> the simple. To

> know that you are a prisoner of your mind, that you

> live in an

> imaginary world of your own creation is the dawn of

> wisdom. To want

> nothing of it, to be ready to abandon it entirely, is

> earnestness.

> Only such earnestness, born of true despair, will make

> you trust me.

>

> Q: Have l not suffered enough?

>

> M: Suffering has made you dull, unable to see its

> enormity. Your

> first task is to see the sorrow in you and around you;

> your next to

> long intensely for liberation. The very intensity of

> longing will

> guide you; you need no other guide.

>

> Q: Suffering has made me dull, indifferent even to

> itself.

>

> M: Maybe it is not sorrow but pleasure that made you

> dull.

> Investigate.

>

> Q: Whatever may be the cause; I am dull. I have

> neither the will

> nor the energy.

>

> M: Oh, no. You have enough for the first step. And

> each step will

> generate enough energy for the next. Energy comes with

> confidence and

> confidence comes with experience.

>

> Q: Is it right to change Gurus?

>

> M: Why not change? Gurus are like milestones? It is

> natural to move

> on from one to another. Each tells you the direction

> and the

> distance, while the sadguru, the eternal Guru, is the

> road itself.

> Once you realise that the road is the goal and that

> you are always on

> the road, not to reach a goal, but to enjoy its beauty

> and its

> wisdom, life ceases to be a task and becomes natural

> and simple, in

> itself an ecstasy.

>

> Q: So, there is no need to worship, to pray, to

> practice Yoga?

>

> M: A little of daily sweeping, washing and bathing

> can do no harm.

> Self-awareness tells you at every step what needs be

> done. When all

> is done, the mind remains quiet.

>

> Now you are in the waking state, a person with name

> and shape, joys

> and sorrows. The person was not there before you were

> born, nor will

> be there after you die. Instead of struggling with the

> person to make

> it become what it is not, why not go beyond the waking

> state and

> leave the personal life altogether? It does not mean

> the extinction

> of the person; it means only seeing it in right

> perspective.

>

> Q: One more question. You said that before I was

> born I was one

> with the pure being of reality; if so, who decided

> that I should be

> born?

>

> M: In reality you were never born and never shall

> die. But now you

> imagine that you are, or have a body and you ask what

> has brought

> about this state. Within the limits of illusion the

> answer is: desire

> born from memory attracts you to a body and makes you

> think as one

> with it. But this is true only from the relative point

> of view. In

> fact, there is no body, nor a world to contain it;

> there is only a

> mental condition, a dream-like state, easy to dispel

> by questioning

> its reality.

>

> Q: After you die, will you come again? If I live

> long enough, will

> I meet you again.

>

> M: To you the body is real, to me there is none. I,

> as you see me,

> exist in your imagination only. Surely, you will see

> me again, if and

> when you need me. It does not affect me, as the Sun is

> not affected

> by sunrises and sunsets. Because it is not affected,

> it is certain to

> be there when needed.

>

> You are bent on knowledge, I am not. I do not have

> that sense of

> insecurity that makes you crave to know. I am curious,

> like a child

> is curious. But there is no anxiety to make me seek

> refuge in

> knowledge. Therefore, I am not concerned whether I

> shall be reborn,

> or how long will the world last. These are questions

> born of fear.

>

> 84. Your Goal is Your Guru

> Questioner: You were telling us that there are many

> self-styled

> Gurus, but a real Guru is very rare. There are many

> jnani who imagine

> themselves realised, but all they have is book

> knowledge and a high

> opinion of themselves. Sometimes they impress, even

> fascinate,

> attract disciples and make them waste their time in

> useless

> practices. After some years, when the disciple takes

> stock of

> himself, he finds no change. When he complains to his

> teacher, he

> gets the usual rebuke that he did not try hard enough.

> The blame is

> on the lack of faith and love in the heart of the

> disciple, while in

> reality the blame is on the Guru, who had no business

> in accepting

> disciples and raising their hopes. How to protect

> oneself from such

> Gurus?

>

> Maharaj: Why be so concerned with others? Whoever may

> be the Guru, if

> he is pure of heart and acts in good faith, he will do

> his disciples

> no harm. If there is no progress, the fault lies with

> the disciples,

> their laziness and lack of self-control. On the other

> hand, if the

> disciple is earnest and applies himself intelligently

> and with zest

> to his sadhana, he is bound to meet a more qualified

> teacher, who

> will take him further. Your question flows from three

> false

> assumptions: that one needs concern oneself with

> others; that one can

> evaluate another and that the progress of the disciple

> is the task

> and responsibility of his Guru. In reality, the Guru's

> role is only

> to instruct and encourage; the disciple is totally

> responsible for

> himself.

>

> Q: We are told that total surrender to the Guru is

> enough, that the

> Guru will do the rest.

>

> M: Of course, when there is total surrender, complete

> relinquishment

> of all concern with one's past, presents and future,

> with one's

> physical and spiritual security and standing, a new

> life dawns, full

> of love and beauty; then the Guru is not important,

> for the disciple

> has broken the shell of self-defence. Complete

> self-surrender by

> itself is liberation.

>

> Q: When both the disciple and his teacher are

> inadequate, what will

> happen?

>

> M: In the long run all will be well. After all, the

> real Self of

> both is not affected by the comedy they play for a

> time. They will

> sober up and ripen and shift to a higher level of

> relationship.

>

> Q: Or, they may separate.

>

> M: Yes, they may separate. After all, no relationship

> is forever.

> Duality is a temporary state.

>

> Q: Is it by accident that I met you and by another

> accident shall

> we separate never to meet again? Or is my meeting you

> a part of some

> cosmic pattern, a fragment in the great drama of our

> lives?

>

> M: The real is meaningful and the meaningful relates

> to reality. If

> our relationship is meaningful to you and me, it

> cannot be

> accidental. The future affects the present as much, as

> the past.

>

> Q: How can I make out who is a real saint and who is

> not?

>

> M: You cannot, unless you have a clear insight into

> the heart of

> man. Appearances are deceptive. To see clearly, your

> mind must be

> pure and unattached. Unless you know yourself well,

> how can you know

> another? And when you know yourself -- you are the

> other.

>

> Leave others alone for some time and examine yourself.

> There are so

> many things you do not know about yourself -- what are

> you, who are

> you, how did you come to be born, what are you doing

> now and why,

> where are you going, what is the meaning and purpose

> of your life,

> your death, your future? Have you a past, have you a

> future? How did

> you come to live in turmoil and sorrow, while your

> entire being

> strives for happiness and peace? These are weighty

> matters and have

> to be attended to first. You have no need, nor time

> for finding who

> is a jnani and who is not?

>

> Q: I must select my guru rightly.

>

> M: Be the right man and the right Guru will surely

> find you.

>

> Q: You are not answering my question: how to find

> the right Guru?

>

> M: But I did answer your question. Do not look for a

> Guru, do not

> even think of one. Make your goal your Guru. After

> all, the Guru is

> but a means to an end, not the end in itself. He is

> not important, it

> is what you expect of him that matters to you. Now,

> what do you

> expect?

>

> Q: By his grace I shall be made happy, powerful and

> peaceful.

>

> M: What ambitions! How can a person limited in time

> and space, a

> mere body-mind, a gasp of pain between birth and

> death, be happy? The

> very conditions of its arising make happiness

> impossible. Peace,

> power, happiness, these are never personal states,

> nobody can say `my

> peace', `my power' -- because `mine' implies

> exclusivity, which is

> fragile and insecure.

>

> Q: I know only my conditioned existence; there is

> nothing else.

>

> M: Surely, you cannot say so. In deep sleep you are

> not conditioned.

> How ready and willing you are to go to sleep, how

> peaceful, free and

> happy you are when asleep!

>

> Q: I know nothing of it.

>

> M: Put it negatively. When you sleep, you are not in

> pain, nor

> bound, nor restless.

>

> Q: I see your point. While awake, I know that I am,

> but am not

> happy; in sleep I am, I am happy, but I don't know it.

> All I need is

> to know that I am free and happy.

>

> M: Quite so. Now, go within, into a state which you

> may compare to a

> state of waking sleep, in which you are aware of

> yourself, but not of

> the world. In that state you will know, without the

> least trace of

> doubt, that at the root of your being you are free and

> happy. The

> only trouble is that you are addicted to experience

> and you cherish

> your memories. In reality it is the other way round;

> what is

> remembered is never real; the real is now.

>

> Q: All this I grasp verbally, but it does not become

> a part of

> myself. It remains as a picture in my mind to be

> looked at. Is it not

> the task of the Guru to give life to the picture?

>

> M: Again, it is the other way round. The picture is

> alive; dead is

> the mind. As the mind is made of words and images, so

> is every

> reflection in the mind. It covers up reality with

> verbalisation and

> then complains. You say a Guru is needed, to do

> miracles with you.

> You are playing with words only. The Guru and the

> disciple are one

> single thing, like the candle and its flame. Unless

> the disciple is

> earnest, he cannot be called a disciple. Unless a Guru

> is all love

> and self-giving, he cannot be called a Guru. Only

> reality begets

> reality, not the false.

>

> Q: I can see that I am false. Who will make me true?

>

> M: The very words you said will do it. The sentence:

> ` I can see

> that I am false' contains all you need for liberation.

> Ponder over

> it, go into it deeply, go to the root of it; it will

> operate. The

> power is in the word, not in the person.

>

> Q: I do not grasp you fully. On one hand you say a

> Guru is needed;

> on the other -- the Guru can only give advice, bit the

> effort is

> mine. Please state clearly -- can one realise the Self

> without a

> Guru, or is the finding of a true Guru essential?

>

> M: More essential is the finding of a true disciple.

> Believe me, a

> true disciple is very rare, for in no time he goes

> beyond the need

> for a Guru, by finding his own self. Don't waste your

> time on trying

> to make out whether the advice you get flows from

> knowledge only, or

> from valid experience! Just follow it faithfully. Life

> will bring you

> another Guru, if another one is needed. Or deprive you

> of all outer

> guidance and leave you to your own lights. It is very

> important to

> understand that it is the teaching that matters, not

> the person or

> the Guru. You get a letter that makes you laugh or

> cry. It is not the

> postman who does it. The Guru only tells you the good

> news about your

> real Self and shows you the way back to it. In a way

> the Guru is its

> messenger. There will be many messengers, but the

> message is one: be

> what you are. Or, you can put it differently: Until

> you realise

> yourself, you cannot know who is your real Guru. When

> you realise,

> you find that all the Gurus you had have contributed

> to your

> awakening. Your realisation is the proof that your

> Guru was real.

> Therefore, take him as he is, do what he tells you,

> with earnestness

> and zeal and trust your heart to warn you if anything

> goes wrong. If

> doubt sets in, don't fight it. Cling to what is

> doubtless and leave

> the doubtful alone.

>

> Q: I have a Guru and I love him very much. But

> whether he is my

> true Guru I do not know.

>

> M: Watch yourself. If you see yourself changing,

> growing, it means

> you have found the right man. He may be beautiful or

> ugly, pleasant

> or unpleasant, flattering you or scolding; nothing

> matters except the

> one crucial fact of inward growth. If you don't, well,

> he may be your

> friend, but not your Guru.

>

> Q: When I meet a European with some education and

> talk to him about

> a Guru and his teachings, his reaction is: `the man

> must be mad to

> teach such nonsense'. What am I to tell him?

>

> M: Take him to himself. Show him, how little he knows

> himself, how

> he takes the most absurd statements about himself for

> holy truth. He

> is told that he is the body, was born, will die, has

> parents, duties,

> learns to like what others like and fear what others

> fear. Totally a

> creature of heredity and society, he lives by memory

> and acts by

> habits. Ignorant of himself and his true interests, he

> pursues false

> aims and is always frustrated. His life and death are

> meaningless and

> painful, and there seems to be no way out. Then tell

> him, there is a

> way out within his easy reach, not a conversion to

> another set of

> ideas, but a liberation from all ideas and patterns of

> living. Don't

> tell him about Gurus and disciples -- this way of

> thinking is not for

> him. His is an inner path, he is moved by an inner

> urge and guided by

> an inner light. Invite him to rebel and he will

> respond. Do not try

> to impress on him that so-and-so is a realised man and

> can be

> accepted as a Guru. As long as he does not trust

> himself, he cannot

> trust another. And confidence will come with

> experience.

>

> Q: How strange! I cannot imagine life without a

> Guru.

>

> M: It is a matter of temperament. You too are right.

> For you,

> singing the praises of God is enough. You need not

> desire realisation

> or take up a sadhana. God's name is all the food you

> need. Live on it.

>

> Q: This constant repetition of a few words, is it

> not a kind of

> madness?

>

> M: It is madness, but it is a deliberate madness. All

> repetitiveness

> is tamas, but repeating the name of God is

> sattva-tamas due to its

> high purpose. Because of the presence of sattva, the

> tamas will wear

> out and will take the shape of complete dispassion,

> detachment,

> relinquishment, aloofness, immutability. Tamas becomes

> the firm

> foundation on which an integrated life can be lived.

>

> Q: The immutable -- does it die?

>

> M: It is changing that dies. The immutable neither

> lives nor dies;

> it is the timeless witness of life and death. You

> cannot call it

> dead, for it is aware. Nor can you call it alive, for

> it does not

> change. It is just like your tape-recorder. It

> records, it

> reproduces -- all by itself. You only listen.

> Similarly, I watch all

> that happens, including my talking to you. It is not

> me who talks,

> the words appear in my mind and then I hear them said.

>

> Q: Is it not the case with everybody?

>

> M: Who said no? But you insist that you think, you

> speak, while to

> me there is thinking, there is speaking.

>

> Q: There are two cases to consider. Either I have

> found a Guru, or

> I have not. In each case what is the right thing to

> do?

>

> M: You are never without a Guru, for he is timelessly

> present in

> your heart. Sometimes he externalises himself and

> comes to you as an

> uplifting and reforming factor in your life, a mother,

> a wife, a

> teacher; or he remains as an inner urge toward

> righteousness and

> perfection. All you have to do is obey him and do what

> he tells you.

> What he wants you to do is simple, learn

> self-awareness, self-

> control, self-surrender. It may seem arduous, but it

> is easy if you

> are earnest. And quite impossible if you are not.

> Earnestness is both

> necessary and sufficient. Everything yields to

> earnestness.

>

> Q: What makes one earnest?

>

> M: Compassion is the foundation of earnestness.

> Compassion for

> yourself and others, born of suffering, your own and

> others.

>

> Q: Must I suffer to be earnest?

>

> M: You need not, if you are sensitive and respond to

> the suffering

> of others, as Buddha did. But if you are callous and

> without pity,

> your own suffering will make you ask the inevitable

> questions.

>

> Q: I find myself suffering, but not enough. Life is

> unpleasant, but

> bearable. My little pleasures compensate me for my

> small pains and on

> the whole I am better off than most of the people I

> know. I know that

> my condition is precarious, that a calamity can

> overtake me any

> moment. Must I wait for a crisis to put me on my way

> to truth?

>

> M: The moment you have seen how fragile is your

> condition, you are

> already alert. Now, keep alert, give attention,

> enquire, investigate,

> discover your mistakes of mind and body and abandon

> them.

>

> Q: Where is the energy to come from? I am like a

> paralysed man in a

> burning house.

>

> M: Even paralysed people sometimes find their legs in

> a moment of

> danger! But you are not paralysed, you merely imagine

> so. Make the

> first step and you will be on your way.

>

> Q: I feel my hold on the body is so strong that I

> just cannot give

> up the idea that I am the body. It will cling to me as

> long as the

> body lasts. There are people who maintain that no

> realisation is

> possible while alive and I feel inclined to agree with

> them.

>

> M: Before you agree or disagree, why not investigate

> the very idea

> of a body? Does the mind appear in the body or the

> body in the mind?

> Surely there must be a mind to conceive the

> `I-am-the-body' idea. A

> body without a mind cannot be `my body'. `My body' is

> invariably

> absent when the mind is in abeyance. It is also absent

> when the mind

> is deeply engaged in thoughts and feelings. Once you

> realise that the

> body depends on the mind, and the mind on

> consciousness, and

> consciousness on awareness and not the other way

> round, your question

> about waiting for self-realisation till you die is

> answered. It is

> not that you must be free from `I-am-the-body' idea

> first, and then

> realise the self. It is definitely the other way round

> -- you cling

> to the false, because you do not know the true.

> Earnestness, not

> perfection, is a precondition to self-realisation.

> Virtues and powers

> come with realisation, not before.

>

> 85. `I am': The Foundation of all Experience

> Questioner: I hear you making statements about

> yourself like: `I am

> timeless, immutable beyond attributes', etc. How do

> you know these

> things? And what makes you say them?

>

> Maharaj: I am only trying to describe the state before

> the `I am'

> arose, but the state itself, being beyond the mind and

> language, is

> indescribable.

>

> Q: The `I am' is the foundation of all experience.

> What you are

> trying to describe must also be an experience, limited

> and

> transitory. You speak of yourself as immutable. I hear

> the sound of

> the word, I remember its dictionary meaning, but the

> experience of

> being immutable I do not have. How can I break through

> the barrier

> and know personally, intimately, what it means to be

> immutable?

>

> M: The word itself is the bridge. Remember it, think

> of it, explore

> it, go round it, look at it from all directions, dive

> into it with

> earnest perseverance: endure all delays and

> disappointments till

> suddenly the mind turns round, away from the word,

> towards the

> reality beyond the word. It is like trying to find a

> person knowing

> his name only. A day comes when your enquiries bring

> you to him and

> the name becomes reality. Words are valuable, for

> between the word

> and its meaning there is a link and if one

> investigates the word

> assiduously, one crosses beyond the concept into the

> experience at

> the root of it. As a matter of fact, such repeated

> attempts to go

> beyond the words is called meditation. Sadhana is but

> a persistent

> attempt to cross over from the verbal to the

> non-verbal. The task

> seems hopeless until suddenly all becomes clear and

> simple and so

> wonderfully easy. But, as long as you are interested

> in your present

> way of living, you will shirk from the final leap into

> the unknown.

>

> Q: Why should the unknown interest me? Of what use

> is the unknown?

>

> M: Of no use whatsoever. But it is worthwhile to know

> what keeps you

> within the narrow confines of the known. It is the

> full and correct

> knowledge of the known that takes you to the unknown.

> You cannot

> think of it in terms of uses and advantages; to be

> quite detached,

> beyond the reach of all self-concern, all selfish

> consideration, is

> an inescapable condition of liberation. You may call

> it death; to me

> it is living at its most meaningful and intense, for I

> am one with

> life in its totality and fullness -- intensity,

> meaningfulness,

> harmony; what more do you want?

>

> Q: Nothing more is needed, of course. But you are

> talking of the

> knowable.

>

> M: Of the unknowable only silence talks. The mind can

> talk only of

> what it knows. If you diligently investigate the

> knowable, it

> dissolves and only the unknowable remains. But with

> the first flicker

> of imagination and interest the unknowable is obscured

> and the known

> comes to the fore-front. The known, the changeable, is

> what you live

> with -- the unchangeable is of no use to you. It is

> only when you are

> satiated with the changeable and long for the

> unchangeable, that you

> are ready for the turning round and stepping into what

> can be

> described, when seen from the level of the mind, as

> emptiness and

> darkness. For the mind craves for content and variety,

> while reality

> is, to the mind, contentless and invariable.

>

> Q: It looks like death to me.

>

> M: It is. It is also all-pervading, all-conquering,

> intense beyond

> words. No ordinary brain can stand it without being

> shattered; hence

> the absolute need for sadhana. Purity of body and

> clarity of mind,

> non-violence and selflessness in life are essential

> for survival as

> an intelligent and spiritual entity.

>

> Q: Are there entities in reality?

>

> M: Identity is Reality, Reality is identity. Reality

> is not

> shapeless mass, a wordless chaos. It is powerful,

> aware, blissful;

> compared to it your life is like a candle to the sun.

>

> Q: By the grace of God and your teacher's you lost

> all desire and

> fear and reached the immovable state. My question is

> simple -- how do

> you know that your state is immovable?

>

> M: Only the changeable can be thought of and talked

> about. The

> unchangeable can only be realised in silence. Once

> realised, it will

> deeply affect the changeable, itself remaining

> unaffected.

>

> Q: How do you know that you are the witness?

>

> M: I do not know, I am. I am, because to be

> everything must be

> witnessed.

>

> Q: Existence can also be accepted on hearsay.

>

> M: Still, finally you come to the need of a direct

> witness.

> Witnessing, if not personal and actual, must at least

> be possible and

> feasible. Direct experience is the final proof.

>

> Q: Experience may be faulty and misleading.

>

> M: Quite, but not the fact of an experience. Whatever

> may be the

> experience, true or false, the fact of an experience

> taking place

> cannot be denied. It is its own proof. Watch yourself

> closely and you

> will see that whatever be the content of

> consciousness, the

> witnessing of it does not depend on the content.

> Awareness is itself

> and does not change with the event. The event may be

> pleasant or

> unpleasant, minor or important, awareness is the same.

> Take note of

> the peculiar nature of pure awareness, its natural

> self-identity,

> without the least trace of self-consciousness, and go

> to the root of

> it and you will soon realise that awareness is your

> true nature and

> nothing you may be aware of, you can call your own.

>

> Q: Is not consciousness and its content one and the

> same?

>

> M: Consciousness is like a cloud in the sky and the

> water drops are

> the content. The cloud needs the sun to become

> visible, and

> consciousness needs being focussed in awareness.

>

> Q: Is not awareness a form of consciousness?

>

> M: When the content is viewed without likes and

> dislikes, the

> consciousness of it is awareness. But still there is a

> difference

> between awareness as reflected in consciousness and

> pure awareness

> beyond consciousness. Reflected awareness, the sense

> `I am aware' is

> the witness, while pure awareness is the essence of

> reality.

> Reflection of the sun in a drop of water is the

> reflection of the

> sun, no doubt, but not the sun itself. Between

> awareness reflected in

> consciousness as the witness and pure awareness there

> is a gap, which

> the mind cannot cross.

>

> Q: Does it not depend on the way you look at it? The

> mind says

> there is a difference. The heart says there is none.

>

> M: Of course there is no difference. The real sees

> the real in the

> unreal. It is the mind that creates the unreal and it

> is the mind

> that sees the false as false.

>

> Q: I understood that the experience of the real

> follows seeing the

> false as false.

>

> M: There is no such thing as the experience of the

> real. The real is

> beyond experience. All experience is in the mind. You

> know the real

> by being real.

>

> Q: If the real is beyond words and mind, why do we

> talk so much

> about it?

>

> M: For the joy of it, of course. The real is bliss

> supreme. Even to

> talk of it is happiness.

>

> Q: I hear you talking of the unshakable and

> blissful. What is in

> your mind when you use these words?

>

> M: There is nothing in my mind. As you hear the

> words, so do I hear

> them. The power that makes everything happen makes

> them also happen.

>

> Q: But you are speaking, not me.

>

> M: That is how it appears to you. As I see it, two

> body-minds

> exchange symbolic noises. In reality nothing happens.

>

> Q: Listen Sir. I am coming to you because I am in

> trouble. I am a

> poor soul lost in a world I do not understand. I am

> afraid of Mother

> Nature who wants me to grow, procreate and die. When I

> ask for the

> meaning and purpose of all this, she does not answer.

> I have come to

> you because I was told that you are kind and wise. You

> talk about the

> changeable as false and transient and this I can

> understand. But when

> you talk of the immutable, I feel lost. `Not this, not

> that, beyond

> knowledge, of no use' -- why talk of it all? Does it

> exist, or is it

> a concept only, a verbal opposite to the changeable?

>

> M: It is, it alone is. But in your present state it

> is of no use to

> you. Just like the glass of water near your bed if of

> no use to you,

> when you dream that you are dying of thirst in a

> desert. I am trying

> to wake you up, whatever your dream.

>

> Q: Please don't tell me that I am dreaming and that

> I will soon

> wake up. I wish it were so. But I am awake and in

> pain. You talk of a

> painless state, but you add that I cannot have it in

> my present

> condition. I feel lost.

>

> M: Don't feel lost. I only say that to find the

> immutable and

> blissful you must give up your hold on the mutable and

> painful. You

> are concerned with your own happiness and I am telling

> you that there

> is no such thing. Happiness is never your own, it is

> where the `I' is

> not. I do not say it is beyond your reach; you have

> only to reach out

> beyond yourself, and you will find it.

>

> Q: If I have to go beyond myself, why did I get the

> `I am' idea in

> the first instance?

>

> M: The mind needs a centre to draw a circle. The

> circle may grow

> bigger and with every increase there will be a change

> in the sense `I

> am'. A man who took himself in hand, a Yogi, will draw

> a spiral, yet

> the centre will remain, however vast the spiral. A day

> comes when the

> entire enterprise is seen as false and given up. The

> central point is

> no more and the universe becomes the centre.

>

> Q: Yes, maybe. But what am I to do now?

>

> M: Assiduously watch your ever-changing life, probe

> deeply into the

> motives beyond your actions and you will soon prick

> the bubble in

> which you are enclosed. A chic needs the shell to

> grow, but a day

> comes when the shell must be broken. If it is not,

> there will be

> suffering and death.

>

> Q: Do you mean to say that if I do not take to Yoga,

> I am doomed to

> extinction?

>

> M: There is the Guru who will come to your rescue. In

> the meantime

> be satisfied with watching the flow of your life; if

> your

> watchfulness is deep and steady, ever turned towards

> the source, it

> will gradually move upstream till suddenly it becomes

> the source. Put

> your awareness to work, not your mind. The mind is not

> the right

> instrument for this task. The timeless can be reached

> only by the

> timeless. Your body and your mind are both subject to

> time; Only

> awareness is timeless, even in the now. In awareness

> you are facing

> facts and reality is fond of facts.

>

> Q: You rely entirely on my awareness to take me over

> and not on the

> Guru and God.

>

> M: God gives the body and the mind and the Guru shows

> the way to use

> them. But returning to the source is your own task.

>

> Q: God has created me, he will look after me.

>

> M: There are innumerable gods, each in his own

> universe. They create

> and re-create eternally. Are you going to wait for

> them to save you?

> What you need for salvation is already within your

> reach. Use it.

> Investigate what you know to its very end and you will

> reach the

> unknown layers of your being. Go further and the

> unexpected will

> explode in you and shatter all.

>

> Q: Does it mean death?

>

> M: It means life -- at last.

>

> 86. The Unknown is the Home of the Real

> Questioner: Who is the Guru and who is the supreme

> Guru?

>

> Maharaj: All that happens in your consciousness is

> your Guru. And

> pure awareness beyond consciousness is the supreme

> Guru.

>

> Q: My Guru is Sri Babaji. What is your opinion of

> him?

>

> M: What a question to ask! The space in Bombay is

> asked what is its

> opinion of the space in Poona. The names differ, but

> not the space.

> The word `Babaji' is merely as address. Who lives

> under the address?

> You ask questions when you are in trouble. Enquire who

> is giving

> trouble and to whom.

>

> Q: I understand everybody is under the obligation to

> realise. Is it

> his duty, or his destiny?

>

> M: Realisation is of the fact that you are not a

> person. Therefore,

> it cannot be the duty of the person whose destiny is

> to disappear.

> Its destiny is the duty of him who imagines himself to

> be the person.

> Find out who he is and the imagined person will

> dissolve. Freedom is

> from something. What are you to be free from?

> Obviously, you must be

> free from the person, you take yourself to be, for it

> is the idea you

> have of yourself that keeps you in bondage.

>

> Q: How is the person removed?

>

> M: By determination. Understand that it must go and

> wish it to go --

> it shall go if you are earnest about it. Somebody,

> anybody, will tell

> you that you are pure consciousness, not a body-mind.

> Accept it as a

> possibility and investigate earnestly. You may

> discover that it is

> not so, that you are not a person bound in space and

> time. Think of

> the difference it would make!

>

> Q: If I am not a person, then what am I?

>

> M: Wet cloth looks, feels, smells differently as long

> as it is wet.

> When dry it is again the normal cloth. Water has left

> it and who can

> make out that it was wet? Your real nature is not like

> what you

> appear to be. Give up the idea of being a person, that

> is all. You

> need not become what you are anyhow. There is the

> identity of what

> you are and there is the person superimposed on it.

> All you know is

> the person, the identity -- which is not a person --

> you do not know,

> for you never doubted, never asked yourself the

> crucial question --

> `Who am I'. The identity is the witness of the person

> and sadhana

> consists in shifting the emphasis from the superficial

> and changeful

> person to the immutable and ever-present witness.

>

> Q: How is it that the question `Who am I' attracts

> me little? I

> prefer to spend my time in the sweet company of

> saints.

>

> M: Abiding in your own being is also holy company. If

> you have no

> problem of suffering and release from suffering, you

> will not find

> the energy and persistence needed for self-enquiry.

> You cannot

> manufacture a crisis. It must be genuine.

>

> Q: How does a genuine crisis happen?

>

> M: It happens every moment, but you are not alert

> enough. A shadow

> on your neighbour's face, the immense and

> all-pervading sorrow of

> existence is a constant factor in your life, but you

> refuse to take

> notice. You suffer and see others suffer, but you

> don't respond.

>

> Q: What you say is true, but what can I do about it?

> Such indeed is

> the situation. My helplessness and dullness are a part

> of it.

>

> M: Good enough. Look at yourself steadily -- it is

> enough. The door

> that locks you in, is also the door that lets you out.

> The `I am' is

> the door. Stay at it until it opens. As a matter of

> fact, it is open,

> only you are not at it. You are waiting at the

> non-existent painted

> doors, which will never open.

>

> Q: Many of us were taking drugs at some time, and to

> some extent.

> People told us to take drugs in order to break through

> into higher

> levels of consciousness. Others advised us to have

> abundant sex for

> the same purpose. What is your opinion in the matter?

>

> M: No doubt, a drug that can affect your brain can

> also affect your

> mind, and give you all the strange experiences

> promised. But what are

> all the drugs compared to the drug that gave you this

> most unusual

> experience of being born and living in sorrow and

> fear, in search of

> happiness, which does not come, or does not last. You

> should enquire

> into the nature of this drug and find an antidote.

>

> Birth, life, death -- they are one. Find out what had

> caused them.

> Before you were born, you were already drugged. What

> kind of drug was

> it? You may cure yourself of all diseases, but if you

> are still under

> the influence of the primordial drug, of what use are

> the superficial

> cures?

>

> Q: Is it not karma that causes rebirth?

>

> M: You may change the name, but the fact remains.

> What is the drug

> which you call karma or destiny? It made you believe

> yourself to be

> what you are not. What is it, and can you be free of

> it? Before you

> go further you must accept, at least as a working

> theory, that you

> are not what you appear to be, that you are under the

> influence of a

> drug. Then only will you have the urge and the

> patience to examine

> the symptoms and search for their common cause. All

> that a Guru can

> tell you is: `My dear Sir, you are quite mistaken

> about yourself. You

> are not the person you think yourself to be.' Trust

> nobody, not even

> yourself. Search, find out, remove and reject every

> assumption till

> you reach the living waters and the rock of truth.

> Until you are free

> of the drug, all your religions and sciences, prayers

> and Yogas are

> of no use to you, for based on a mistake, they

> strengthen it. But if

> you stay with the idea that you are not the body nor

> the mind, not

> even their witness, but altogether beyond, your mind

> will grow in

> clarity, your desires -- in purity, your actions -- in

> charity and

> that inner distillation will take you to another

> world, a world of

> truth and fearless love. Resist your old habits of

> feeling and

> thinking; keep on telling yourself: `No, not so, it

> cannot be so; I

> am not like this, I do not need it, I do not want it',

> and a day will

> surely come when the entire structure of error and

> despair will

> collapse and the ground will be free for a new life.

> After all, you

> must remember, that all your preoccupations with

> yourself are only in

> your waking hours and partly in your dreams; in sleep

> all is put

> aside and forgotten. It shows how little important is

> your waking

> life, even to yourself, that merely lying down and

> closing the eyes

> can end it. Each time you go to sleep you do so

> without the least

> certainty of waking up and yet you accept the risk.

>

> Q: When you sleep, are you conscious or unconscious?

>

> M: I remain conscious, but not conscious of being a

> particular

> person.

>

> Q: Can you give us the taste of the experience of

> self-realisation?

>

> M: Take the whole of it! It is here for the asking.

> But you do not

> ask. Even when you ask, you do not take. Find out what

> prevents you

> from taking.

>

> Q: I know what prevents -- my ego.

>

> M: Then get busy with your ego -- leave me alone. As

> long as you are

> locked up within your mind, my state is beyond your

> grasp.

>

> Q: I find I have no more questions to ask.

>

> M: Were you really at war with your ego, you would

> have put many

> more questions. You are short of questions because you

> are not really

> interested. At present you are moved by the

> pleasure-pain principle

> which is the ego. You are going along with the ego,

> you are not

> fighting it. You are not even aware how totally you

> are swayed by

> personal considerations. A man should always revolt

> against himself,

> for the ego, like a crooked mirror, narrows down and

> distorts. It is

> the worst of all the tyrants, it dominates you

> absolutely.

>

> Q: When there is no `I' who is free?

>

> M: The world is free of a mighty nuisance. Good

> enough.

>

> Q: Good for whom?

>

> M: Good for everybody. It is like a rope stretched

> across the

> street, it snarls up the traffic. Roll up, it is

> there, as mere

> identity, useful when needed. Freedom from the

> ego-self is the fruit

> of self-enquiry.

>

> Q: There was a time when I was most displeased with

> myself. Now I

> have met my Guru and I am at peace, after having

> surrendered myself

> to him completely.

>

> M: If you watch your daily life you will see that you

> have

> surrendered nothing. You have merely added the word

> `surrender' to

> your vocabulary and made your Guru into a peg to hang

> your problems

> on. Real surrender means doing nothing, unless

> prompted by your Guru.

> You step, so to say, aside and let your Guru live your

> life. You

> merely watch and wonder how easily he solves the

> problems which to

> you seemed insoluble.

>

> Q: As I sit here, I see the room, the people. I see

> you too. How

> does it look at your end? What do you see?

>

> M: Nothing. I look, but I do not see in the sense of

> creating images

> clothed with judgements. I do not describe nor

> evaluate. I look, I

> see you, but neither attitude nor opinion cloud my

> vision. And when I

> turn my eyes away, my mind does not allow memory to

> linger; it is at

> once free and fresh for the next impression.

>

> Q: As I am here, looking at you, I cannot locate the

> event in space

> and time. There is something eternal and universal

> about the

> transmission of wisdom that is taking place. Ten

> thousand years

> earlier, or later, make no difference -- the event

> itself is timeless.

>

> M: Man does not change much over the ages. Human

> problems remain the

> same and call for the same answers. Your being

> conscious of what you

> call transmission of wisdom shows that wisdom has not

> yet been

> transmitted. When you have it, you are no longer

> conscious of it.

> What is really your own, you are not conscious of.

> What you are

> conscious of is neither you nor yours. Yours is the

> power of

> perception, not what you perceive. It is a mistake to

> take the

> conscious to be the whole of man. Man is the

> unconscious, conscious

> and the super-conscious, but you are not the man.

> Yours is the cinema

> screen, the light as well as the seeing power, but the

> picture is not

> you.

>

> Q: Must I search for the Guru, or shall I stay with

> whomever I have

> found?

>

> M: The very question shows that you have not yet

> found one. As long

> as you have not realised, you will move from Guru to

> Guru, but when

> you have found yourself, the search will end. A Guru

> is a milestone.

> When you are on the move, you pass so many milestones.

> When you have

> reached your destination, it is the last alone that

> mattered. In

> reality all mattered at their own time and none

> matters now.

>

> Q: You seem to give no importance to the Guru. He is

> merely an

> incident among others.

>

> M: All incidents contribute, but none is crucial. On

> the road each

> step helps you reach your destination, and each is as

> crucial as the

> other, for each step must be made, you cannot skip it.

> If you refuse

> to make it, you are stuck!

>

> Q: Everybody sings the glories of the Guru, while

> you compare him

> to a milestone. Don't we need a Guru?

>

> M: Don't we need a milestone? Yes and no. Yes, if we

> are uncertain,

> no if we know our way. Once we are certain in

> ourselves, the Guru is

> no longer needed, except in a technical sense. Your

> mind is an

> instrument, after all, and you should know how to use

> it. As you are

> taught the uses of your body, so you should know how

> to use your mind.

>

> Q: What do I gain by learning to use my mind?

>

> M: You gain freedom from desire and fear, which are

> entirely due to

> wrong uses of the mind. Mere mental knowledge is not

> enough. The

> known is accidental, the unknown is the home of the

> real. To live in

> the known is bondage, to live in the unknown is

> liberation.

>

> Q: I have understood that all spiritual practice

> consists in the

> elimination of the personal self. Such practice

> demands iron

> determination and relentless application. Where to

> find the integrity

> and energy for such work?

>

> M: You find it in the company of the wise?

>

> Q: How do I know who is wise and who is merely

> clever?

>

> M: If your motives are pure, if you seek truth and

> nothing else, you

> will find the right people. Finding them is easy, what

> is difficult

> is to trust them and take full advantage of their

> advice and guidance.

>

> Q: Is the waking state more important for spiritual

> practice than

> sleep?

>

> M: On the whole we attach too much importance, to the

> waking state.

> Without sleep the waking state would be impossible;

> without sleep one

> goes mad or dies; why attach so much importance to

> waking

> consciousness, which is obviously dependent on the

> unconscious? Not

> only the conscious but the unconscious as well should

> be taken care

> of in our spiritual practice.

>

> Q: How does one attend to the unconscious?

>

> M: Keep the `I am' in the focus of awareness,

> remember that you are,

> watch yourself ceaselessly and the unconscious will

> flow into the

> conscious without any special effort on your part.

> Wrong desires and

> fears, false ideas, social inhibitions are blocking

> and preventing

> its free interplay with the conscious. Once free to

> mingle, the two

> become one and the one becomes all. The person merges

> into the

> witness, the witness into awareness, awareness into

> pure being, yet

> identity is not lost, only its limitations are lost.

> It is

> transfigured, and becomes the real Self, the sadguru,

> the eternal

> friend and guide. You cannot approach it in worship.

> No external

> activity can reach the inner self; worship and prayers

> remain on the

> surface only; to go deeper meditation is essential,

> the striving to

> go beyond the states of sleep, dream and waking. In

> the beginning the

> attempts are irregular, then they recur more often,

> become regular,

> then continuous and intense, until all obstacles are

> conquered.

>

> Q: Obstacles to what?

>

> M: To self-forgetting.

>

> Q: If worship and prayers are ineffectual why do you

> worship daily,

> with songs and music, the image of your Guru!

>

> M: Those who want it, do it. I see no purpose in

> interfering.

>

> Q: But you take part in it.

>

> M: Yes, it appears so. But why be so concerned with

> me? Give all

> your attention to the question: `What is it that makes

> me

> conscious?', until your mind becomes the question

> itself and cannot

> think of anything else.

>

> Q: All and sundry are urging me to meditate. I find

> no zest in

> meditation, but I am interested in many other things;

> some I want

> very much and my mind goes to them; my attempts at

> meditation are so

> half-hearted. What am I to do?

>

> M: Ask yourself: `To whom it all happens?' Use

> everything as an

> opportunity to go within. Light your way by burning up

> obstacles in

> the intensity of awareness. When you happen to desire

> or fear, it is

> not the desire or fear that are wrong and must go, but

> the person who

> desires and fears. There is no point in fighting

> desires and fears

> which may be perfectly natural and justified; It is

> the person, who

> is swayed by them, that is the cause of mistakes, past

> and future.

> The person should be carefully examined and its

> falseness seen; then

> its power over you will end. After all, it subsides

> each time you go

> to sleep. In deep sleep you are not a self-conscious

> person, yet you

> are alive. When you are alive and conscious, but no

> longer self-

> conscious, you are not a person anymore. During the

> waking hours you

> are, as if, on the stage, playing a role, but what are

> you when the

> play is over? You are what you are; what you were

> before the play

> began you remain when it is over. Look at yourself as

> performing on

> the stage of life. The performance may be splendid or

> clumsy, but you

> are not in it, you merely watch it; with interest and

> sympathy, of

> course, but keeping in mind all the time that you are

> only watching

> while the play -- life -- is going on.

>

> Q: You are always stressing the cognition aspect of

> reality. You

> hardly ever mention affection, and will -- never?

>

> M: Will, affection, bliss, striving and enjoying are

> so deeply

> tainted with the personal, that they cannot be

> trusted. The

> clarification and purification needed at the very

> start of the

> journey, only awareness can give. Love and will shall

> have their

> turn, but the ground must be prepared. The sun of

> awareness must rise

> first -- all else will follow.

>

> 87. Keep the Mind Silent and You shall Discover

> Questioner: Once I had a strange experience. I was

> not, nor was the

> world, there was only light -- within and without --

> and immense

> peace. This lasted for four days and then I returned

> to the every-day

> consciousness.

>

> Now I have a feeling that all I know is merely a

> scaffolding,

> covering and hiding the building under construction.

> The architect,

> the design, the plans, the purpose -- nothing I know;

> some activity

> is going on, things are happening; that is all I can

> say. I am that

> scaffolding, some thing very flimsy and short-lived;

> when the

> building is ready, the scaffolding will be dismantled

> and removed.

> The `I am' and the `What am I' are of no importance,

> because once the

> building is ready, the `I' will go as a matter of

> course, leaving no

> questions about itself to answer.

>

> Maharaj: Are you not aware of all this? Is not the

> fact of awareness

> the constant factor?

>

> Q: My sense of permanency and identity is due to

> memory, which is

> so evanescent and unreliable. How little I remember,

> even of the

> recent past! I have lived a life-time, and now what is

> left with me?

> A bundle of events, at best a short story.

>

> M: All this takes place within your consciousness.

>

> Q: Within and without. In daytime -- within; in the

> night --

> without. Consciousness is not all. So many things

> happen beyond its

> reach. To say that what I am not conscious of does not

> exist, is

> altogether wrong.

>

> M: What you say is logical, but actually you know

> only what is in

> your consciousness. What you claim exists outside

> conscious

> experience is inferred.

>

> Q: It may be inferred and yet it is more real than

> the sensory.

>

> M: Be careful. The moment you start talking you

> create a verbal

> universe, a universe of words, ideas, concepts and

> abstractions,

> interwoven and inter-dependent, most wonderfully

> generating,

> supporting and explaining each other and yet all

> without essence or

> substance, mere creations of the mind. Words create

> words, reality is

> silent.

>

> Q: When you talk, I hear you. Is it not a fact?

>

> M: That you hear is a fact. What you hear -- is not.

> The fact can be

> experienced, and in that sense the sound of the word

> and the mental

> ripples it causes are experienced. There is no other

> reality behind

> it. Its meaning is purely conventional, to be

> remembered; a language

> can be easily forgotten, unless practiced.

>

> Q: If words have no reality in them why talk at all?

>

> M: They serve their limited purpose of inter-personal

> communication.

> Words do not convey facts, they signal them. Once you

> are beyond the

> person, you need no words.

>

> Q: What can take me beyond the person? How to go

> beyond

> consciousness?

>

> M: Words and questions come from the mind and hold

> you there. To go

> beyond the mind, you must be silent and quiet. Peace

> and silence,

> silence and peace -- this is the way beyond. Stop

> asking questions.

>

> Q: Once I give up asking questions, what am I to do?

>

> M: What can you do but wait and watch?

>

> Q: What am I to wait for?

>

> M: For the centre of your being to emerge into

> consciousness. The

> three states -- sleeping, dreaming and waking are all

> in

> consciousness, the manifested; what you call

> unconsciousness will

> also be manifested -- in time; beyond consciousness

> altogether lies

> the unmanifested. And beyond all, and pervading all,

> is the heart of

> being which beats steadily -- manifested-unmanifested;

> manifested-

> unmanifested (saguna-nirguna).

>

> Q: On the verbal level it sounds all right. I can

> visualise myself

> as the seed of being, a point in consciousness, with

> my sense `I am'

> pulsating, appearing and disappearing alternately. But

> what am I to

> do to realise it as a fact, to go beyond into the

> changeless,

> wordless Reality?

>

> M: You can do nothing. What time has brought about,

> time will take

> away.

>

> Q: Why then all these exhortations to practice Yoga

> and seek

> reality? They make me feel empowered and responsible,

> while in fact

> it is time that does all.

>

> M: This is the end of Yoga -- to realise

> independence. All that

> happens, happens in and to the mind, not to the source

> of the `I am'.

> Once you realise that all happens by itself, (call it

> destiny, or the

> will of God or mere accident), you remain as witness

> only,

> understanding and enjoying, but not perturbed.

>

> Q: If I cease trusting words altogether, what will

> be my condition?

>

> M: There is a season for trusting and for

> distrusting. Let the

> seasons do their work, why worry?

>

> Q: Somehow I feel responsible for what happens

> around me.

>

> M: You are responsible only for what you can change.

> All you can

> change is only your attitude. There lies your

> responsibility.

>

> Q: You are advising me to remain indifferent to the

> sorrows of

> others!

>

> M: It is not that you are indifferent. All the

> sufferings of mankind

> do not prevent you from enjoying your next meal. The

> witness is not

> indifferent. He is the fullness of understanding and

> compassion. Only

> as the witness you can help another.

>

> Q: All my life I was fed on words. The number of

> words I have heard

> and read go into the billions. Did it benefit me? Not

> at all!

>

> M: The mind shapes the language and the language

> shapes the mind.

> Both are tools, use them but don't misuse them. Words

> can bring you

> only unto their own limit; to go beyond, you must

> abandon them.

> Remain as the silent witness only.

>

> Q: How can I? The world disturbs me greatly.

>

> M: It is because you think yourself big enough to be

> affected by the

> world. It is not so. You are so small that nothing can

> pin you down.

> It is your mind that gets caught, not you. Know

> yourself as you are --

> a mere point in consciousness, dimensionless and

> timeless. You are

> like the point of the pencil -- by mere contact with

> you the mind

> draws its picture of the world. You are single and

> simple -- the

> picture is complex and extensive. Don't be misled by

> the picture --

> remain aware of the tiny point -- which is everywhere

> in the picture.

>

> What is, can cease to be; what is not, can come to be;

> but what

> neither is nor is not, but on which being and

> non-being depend, is

> unassailable; know yourself to be the cause of desire

> and fear,

> itself free from both.

>

> Q: How am I the cause of fear?

>

> M: All depends on you. It is by your consent that the

> world exists.

> Withdraw your belief in its reality and it will

> dissolve like a

> dream. Time can bring down mountains; much more you,

> who are the

> timeless source of time. For without memory and

> expectation there can

> be no time.

>

> Q: Is the `I am' the Ultimate?

>

> M: Before you can say: `I am', you must be there to

> say it. Being

> need not be self-conscious. You need not know to be,

> but you must be

> to know.

>

> Q: Sir, I am getting drowned in a sea of words! I

> can see that all

> depends on how the words are out together, but there

> must be somebody

> to put them together -- meaningfully. By drawing words

> at random the

> Ramayana, Mahabharata and Bhagavata could never be

> produced. The

> theory of accidental emergence is not tenable. The

> origin of the

> meaningful must be beyond it. What is the power that

> creates order

> out of chaos? Living is more than being, and

> consciousness is more

> than living. Who is the conscious living being?

>

> M: Your question contains the answer: a conscious

> living being is a

> conscious living being. The words are most

> appropriate, but you do

> not grasp their full import. Go deep into the meaning

> of the words:

> being, living, conscious, and you will stop running in

> circles,

> asking questions, but missing answers. Do understand

> that you cannot

> ask a valid question about yourself, because you do

> not know whom you

> are asking about. In the question `Who am I?' the `I'

> is not known

> and the question can be worded as: " I do not know what

> I mean by `I' "

> What you are, you must find out. I can only tell you

> what you are

> not. You are not of the world, you are not even in the

> world. The

> world is not, you alone are. You create the world in

> your imagination

> like a dream. As you cannot separate the dream from

> yourself, so you

> cannot have an outer world independent of yourself.

> You are

> independent, not the world. Don't be afraid of a world

> you yourself

> have created. Cease from looking for happiness and

> reality in a dream

> and you will wake up. You need not know `why' and

> `how', there is no

> end to questions. Abandon all desires, keep your mind

> silent and you

> shall discover.

>

> 88. Knowledge by the Mind, is not True Knowledge

> Questioner: Do you experience the three states of

> waking, dreaming

> and sleeping just as we do, or otherwise?

>

> Maharaj: All the three states are sleep to me. My

> waking state is

> beyond them. As I look at you, you all seem asleep,

> dreaming up words

> of your own. I am aware, for I imagine nothing. It is

> not samadhi

> which is but a kind of sleep. It is just a state

> unaffected by the

> mind, free from the past and future. In your case it

> is distorted by

> desire and fear, by memories and hopes; in mine it is

> as it is --

> normal. To be a person is to be asleep.

>

> Q: Between the body and pure awareness stands the

> `inner organ',

> antahkarana, the `subtle body', the `mental body',

> whatever the name.

> Just as a whirling mirror converts sunlight into a

> manifold pattern

> of streaks and colours, so does the subtle body

> convert the simple

> light of the shining Self into a diversified world.

> Thus I have

> understood your teaching. What I cannot grasp is how

> did this subtle

> body arise in the first instance?

>

> M: It is created with the emergence of the `I am'

> idea. The two are

> one.

>

> Q: How did the `I am' appear?

>

> M: In your world everything must have a beginning and

> an end. If it

> does not, you call it eternal. In my view there is no

> such thing as

> beginning or end -- these are all related to time.

> Timeless being is

> entirely in the now.

>

> Q: The antahkarana, or the `subtle body', is it real

> or unreal?

>

> M: It is momentary. Real when present, unreal when

> over.

>

> Q: What kind of reality? Is it momentary?

>

> M: Call it empirical, or actual, or factual. It is

> the reality of

> immediate experience, here and now, which cannot be

> denied. You can

> question the description and the meaning, but not the

> event itself.

> Being and non-being alternate and their reality is

> momentary. The

> Immutable Reality lies beyond space and time. Realise

> the

> momentariness of being and non-being and be free from

> both.

>

> Q: Things may be transient, yet they are very much

> with us, in

> endless repetition.

>

> M: Desires are strong. It is desire that causes

> repetition. There is

> no recurrence where desire is not.

>

> Q: What about fear?

>

> M: Desire is of the past, fear is of the future. The

> memory of past

> suffering and the fear of its recurrence make one

> anxious about the

> future.

>

> Q: There is also fear of the unknown.

>

> M: Who has not suffered is not afraid.

>

> Q: We are condemned to fear?

>

> M: Until we can look at fear and accept it as the

> shadow of personal

> existence, as persons we are bound to be afraid.

> Abandon all personal

> equations and you shall be free from fear. It is not

> difficult.

> Desirelessness comes on its own when desire is

> recognised as false.

> You need not struggle with desire. Ultimately, it is

> an urge to

> happiness, which is natural as long as there is

> sorrow. Only see that

> there is no happiness in what you desire.

>

> Q: We settle for pleasure.

>

> M: Each pleasure is wrapped in pain. You soon

> discover that you

> cannot have one without the other.

>

> Q: There is the experiencer and there is his

> experience. What

> created the link between the two?

>

> M: Nothing created it. It is. The two are one.

>

> Q: I feel there is a catch somewhere, but I do not

> know where.

>

> M: The catch is in your mind, which insists on seeing

> duality where

> there is none.

>

> Q: As I listen to you, my mind is all in the now and

> I am

> astonished to find myself without questions.

>

> M: You can know reality only when you are astonished.

>

> Q: I can make out that the cause of anxiety and fear

> is memory.

> What are the means for putting an end to memory?

>

> M: Don't talk of means, there are no means. What you

> see as false,

> dissolves. It is the very nature of illusion to

> dissolve on

> investigation. Investigate -- that is all. You cannot

> destroy the

> false, for you are creating it all the time. Withdraw

> from it, ignore

> it, go beyond, and it will cease to be.

>

> Q: Christ also speaks of ignoring evil and being

> child-like.

>

> M: Reality is common to all. Only the false is

> personal.

>

> Q: As I watch the sadhakas and enquire into the

> theories by which

> they live, I find they have merely replaced material

> cravings

> by `spiritual' ambitions. From what you tell us it

> looks as if the

> words: `spiritual' and `ambition' are incompatible. If

> `spirituality'

> implies freedom from ambition, what will urge the

> seeker on? The

> Yogis speak of the desire for liberation as essential.

> Is it not the

> highest form of ambition?

>

> M: Ambition is personal, liberation is from the

> personal. In

> liberation both the subject and the object of ambition

> are no longer.

> Earnestness is not a yearning for the fruits of one's

> endeavours. It

> is an expression of an inner shift of interest away

> from the false,

> unessential, the personal.

>

> Q: You told us the other day that we cannot even

> dream of

> perfection before realisation, for the Self is the

> source of all

> perfection and not the mind. If it is not excellence

> in virtue that

> is essential for liberation, then what is?

>

> M: Liberation is not the result of some means

> skilfully applied, nor

> of circumstances. It is beyond the causal process.

> Nothing can compel

> it, nothing can prevent it.

>

> Q: Then why are we not free here and now?

>

> M: But we are free `here and now'. It is only the

> mind that imagines

> bondage.

>

> Q: What will put an end to imagination?

>

> M: Why should you want to put an end to it? Once you

> know your mind

> and its miraculous powers, and remove what poisoned it

> -- the idea of

> a separate and isolated person -- you just leave it

> alone to do its

> work among things to which it is well suited. To keep

> the mind in its

> own place and on its own work is the liberation of the

> mind.

>

> Q: What is the work of the mind?

>

> M: The mind is the wife of the heart and the world

> their home -- to

> be kept bright and happy.

>

> Q: I have not yet understood why, if nothing stands

> in the way of

> liberation, it does not happen here and now.

>

> M: Nothing stands in the way of your liberation and

> it can happen

> here and now, but for your being more interested in

> other things. And

> you cannot fight with your interests. You must go with

> them, see

> through them and watch them reveal themselves as mere

> errors of

> judgement and appreciation.

>

> Q: Will it not help me if I go and stay with some

> great and holy

> man?

>

> M: Great and holy people are always within your

> reach, but you do

> not recognise them. How will you know who is great and

> holy? By

> hearsay? Can you trust others in these matters, or

> even yourself? To

> convince you beyond the shadow of doubt you need more

> than a

> commendation, more even than a momentary rapture. You

> may come across

> a great and holy man or women and not even know for a

> long time your

> good fortune. The infant son of a great man for many

> years will not

> know the greatness of his father. You must mature to

> recognise

> greatness and purify your heart for holiness. Or you

> will spend your

> time and money in vain and also miss what life offers

> you. There are

> good people among your friends -- you can learn much

> from them.

> Running after saints is merely another game to play.

> Remember

> yourself instead and watch your daily life

> relentlessly. Be earnest,

> and you shall not fail to break the bonds of

> inattention and

> imagination.

>

> Q: Do you want me to struggle all alone?

>

> M: You are never alone. There are powers and

> presences who serve you

> all the time most faithfully. You may or may not

> perceive them,

> nevertheless they are real and active. When you

> realise that all is

> in your mind and that you are beyond the mind, that

> you are truly

> alone; then all is you.

>

> Q: What is omniscience? Is God omniscient? Are you

> omniscient? We

> hear the expression -- universal witness. What does it

> mean? Does

> self-realisation imply omniscience? Or is it a matter

> of specialised

> training?

>

> M: To lose entirely all interest in knowledge results

> in

> omniscience. It is but the gift of knowing what needs

> to be known, at

> the right moment, for error-free action. After all,

> knowledge is

> needed for action and if you act rightly,

> spontaneously, without

> bringing in the conscious, so much the better.

>

> Q: Can one know the mind of another person?

>

> M: Know you own mind first. It contains the entire

> universe and with

> space to spare!

>

> Q: Your working theory seems to be that the waking

> state is not

> basically different from dream and the dreamless

> sleep. The three

> states are essentially a case of mistaken

> self-identification with

> the body. Maybe it is true, but, I feel, it is not the

> whole truth.

>

> M: Do not try to know the truth, for knowledge by the

> mind is not

> true knowledge. But you can know what is not true --

> which is enough

> to liberate you from the false. The idea that you know

> what is true

> is dangerous, for it keeps you imprisoned in the mind.

> It is when you

> do not know, that you are free to investigate. And

> there can be no

> salvation, without investigation, because

> non-investigation is the

> main cause of bondage.

>

> Q: You say that the illusion of the world begins

> with the sense `I

> am', but when I ask about the origin of the sense `I

> am', you answer

> that it has no origin, for on investigation it

> dissolves. What is

> solid enough to build the world on cannot be mere

> illusion. The `I

> am' is the only changeless factor I am conscious of;

> how can it be

> false?

>

> M: It is not the `I am' that is false, but what you

> take yourself to

> be. I can see, beyond the least shadow of doubt, that

> you are not

> what you believe yourself to be. Logic or no logic,

> you cannot deny

> the obvious. You are nothing that you are conscious

> of. Apply

> yourself diligently to pulling apart the structure you

> have built in

> your mind. What the mind has done the mind must undo.

>

> Q: You cannot deny the present moment, mind or no

> mind. What is

> now, is. You may question the appearance, but not the

> fact. What is

> at the root of the fact?

>

> M: The `I am' is at the root of all appearance and

> the permanent

> link in the succession of events that we call life;

> but I am beyond

> the `I am'.

>

> Q: I have found that the realised people usually

> describe their

> state in terms borrowed from their religion. You

> happen to be a

> Hindu, so you talk of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and use

> Hindu

> approaches and imagery. Kindly tell us, what is the

> experience behind

> your words? What reality do they refer to?

>

> M: It is my way of talking, a language I was taught

> to use.

>

> Q: But what is behind the language?

>

> M: How can I put it into words, except in negating

> them? Therefore,

> I use words like timeless, spaceless, causeless. These

> too are words,

> but as they are empty of meaning, they suit my

> purpose.

>

> Q: If they are meaningless, why use them?

>

> M: Because you want words where no words apply.

>

> Q: I can see your point. Again, you have robbed me

> of my question!

>

> 89. Progress in Spiritual Life

> Questioner: We are two girls from England, visiting

> India. We know

> little about Yoga and we are here because we were told

> that spiritual

> teachers play an important role in Indian life.

>

> Maharaj: You are welcome. There is nothing new you

> will find here.

> The work we are doing is timeless. It was the same ten

> thousand years

> ago. Centuries roll on, but the human problem does not

> change -- the

> problem of suffering and the ending of suffering.

>

> Q: The other day seven young foreigners have turned

> up asking for a

> place to sleep for a few nights. They came to see

> their Guru who was

> lecturing in Bombay. I met him -- a very pleasant

> looking young man

> is he -- apparently very matter-of-fact and efficient,

> but with an

> atmosphere of peace and silence about him. His

> teaching is

> traditional with stress on karma Yoga, selfless work,

> service of the

> Guru etc. Like the Gita, he says that selfless work

> will result in

> salvation. He is full of ambitious plans: training

> workers who will

> start spiritual centres in many countries. It seems he

> gives them not

> only the authority, but also the power to do the work

> in his name.

>

> M: Yes, there is such a thing as transmission of

> power.

>

> Q: When I was with them I had a strange feeling of

> becoming

> invisible. The devotees, in their surrender to their

> Guru surrendered

> me also! Whatever I did for them was their Guru's

> doing and I was not

> considered, except as a mere instrument. I was merely

> a tap to turn

> left or right. There was no personal relationship

> whatsoever. They

> tried a little to convert me to their faith; as soon

> as they felt

> resistance, they just dropped me from the field of

> their attention.

> Even between themselves they did not appear very much

> related; it is

> their common interest in their Guru that kept them

> together. I found

> it rather cold, almost inhuman. To consider oneself an

> instrument in

> God's hands is one thing; to be denied all attention

> and

> consideration because `all is God' may lead to

> indifference verging

> on cruelty. After all, all wars are made `in the name

> of God'. The

> entire history of mankind is a succession of `holy

> wars'. One is

> never so impersonal as in war!

>

> M: To insist, to resist, are contained in the will to

> be. Remove the

> will to be and what remains? Existence and

> non-existence relate to

> something in space and time; here and now, there and

> then, which

> again are in the mind. The mind plays a guessing game;

> it is ever

> uncertain; anxiety-ridden and restless. You resent

> being treated as a

> mere instrument of some god, or Guru, and insist on

> being treated as

> a person, because you are not sure of your own

> existence and do not

> want to give up the comfort and assurance of a

> personality. You may

> not be what you believe yourself to be, but it gives

> you continuity,

> your future flows into the present and becomes the

> past without

> jolts. To be denied personal existence is frightening,

> but you must

> face it and find your identity with the totality of

> life. Then the

> problem of who is used by whom is no more.

>

> Q: All the attention I got was an attempt to convert

> me to their

> faith. When I resisted they lost all interest in me.

>

> M: One does not become a disciple by conversion, or

> by accident.

> There is usually an ancient link, maintained through

> many lives and

> flowering as love and trust, without which there is no

> discipleship.

>

> Q: What made you decide to become a teacher?

>

> M: I was made into one by being called so. Who am I

> to teach and

> whom? What I am, you are, and what you are -- I am.

> The `I am' is

> common to us all; beyond the `I am' there is the

> immensity of light

> and love. We do not see it because we look elsewhere;

> I can only

> point at the sky; seeing of the star is your own work.

> Some take more

> time before they see the star, some take less; it

> depends on the

> clarity of their vision and their earnestness in

> search. These two

> must be their own -- I can only encourage.

>

> Q: What am I expected to do when I become a

> disciple?

>

> M: Each teacher has his own method, usually patterned

> on his Guru's

> teachings and on the way he himself has realised, and

> his own

> terminology as well. Within that framework adjustments

> to the

> personality of the disciple are made. The disciple is

> given full

> freedom of thought and enquiry and encouraged to

> question to his

> heart's content. He must be absolutely certain of the

> standing and

> competence of his Guru, otherwise his faith will not

> be absolute nor

> his action complete. It is the absolute in you that

> takes you to the

> absolute beyond you -- absolute truth, love

> selflessness are the

> decisive factors in self-realisation. With earnestness

> these can be

> reached.

>

> Q: I understand one must give up one's family and

> possessions to

> become a disciple.

>

> M: It varies with the Guru. Some expect their mature

> disciples to

> become ascetics and recluses; some encourage family

> life and duties.

> Most of them consider a model family life more

> difficult than

> renunciation, suitable for a personality more mature

> and better

> balanced. At the early stages the discipline of

> monastic life may be

> advisable. Therefore, in the Hindu culture students up

> to the age of

> 25 are expected to live like monks -- in poverty,

> chastity and

> obedience -- to give them a chance to build a

> character able to meet

> the hardships and temptations of married life.

>

> Q: Who are the people in this room? Are they your

> disciples?

>

> M: Ask them. It is not on the verbal level that one

> becomes a

> disciple, but in the silent depths of one's being. You

> do not become

> a disciple by choice; it is more a matter of destiny

> than self-will.

> It does not matter much who is the teacher -- they all

> wish you well.

> It is the disciple that matters -- his honesty and

> earnestness. The

> right disciple will always find the right teacher.

>

> Q: I can see the beauty and feel the blessedness of

> a life devoted

> to search for truth under a competent and loving

> teacher.

> Unfortunately, we have to return to England.

>

> M: Distance does not matter. If your desires are

> strong and true,

> they will mould your life for their fulfilment. Sow

> you seed and

> leave it to the seasons.

>

> Q: What are the signs of progress in spiritual life?

>

> M: Freedom from anxiety; a sense of ease and joy;

> deep peace within

> and abundant energy without.

>

> Q: How did you get it?

>

> M: I found it all in the holy presence of my Guru --

> I did nothing

> on my own. He told me to be quiet -- and I did it --

> as much as I

> could.

>

> Q: Is your presence as powerful as his?

>

> M: How am I to know? For me -- his is the only

> presence. If you are

> with me, you are with him.

>

> Q: Each Guru will refer me to his own Guru. Where is

> the starting

> point?

>

> M: There is a power in the universe working for

> enlightenment -- and

> liberation. We call it Sadashiva, who is ever present

> in the hearts

> of men. It is the unifying factor. Unity -- liberates.

> Freedom --

> unites. Ultimately nothing is mine or yours --

> everything is ours.

> Just be one with yourself and you will be one with

> all, at home in

> the entire universe.

>

> Q: You mean to say that all these glories will come

> with the mere

> dwelling on the feeling `I am'?

>

> M: It is the simple that is certain, not the

> complicated. Somehow,

> people do not trust the simple, the easy, the always

> available. Why

> not give an honest trial to what I say? It may look

> very small and

> insignificant, but it is like a seed that grows into a

> mighty tree.

> Give yourself a chance!

>

> Q: I see so many people sitting here -- quietly.

> What for have they

> come?

>

> M: To meet themselves. At home the world is too much

> with them. Here

> nothing disturbs them; they have a chance to take

> leave of their

> daily worries and contact the essential in themselves.

>

> Q: What is the course of training in self-awareness?

>

> M: There is no need of training. Awareness is always

> with you. The

> same attention that you give to the outer, you turn to

> the inner. No

> new, or special kind of awareness is needed.

>

> Q: Do you help people personally?

>

> M: People come to discuss their problems. Apparently

> they derive

> some help, or they would not come.

>

> Q: Are the talks with people always in public, or

> will you talk to

> them privately also?

>

> M: It is according to their wish. Personally, I make

> no distinction

> between public and private.

>

> Q: Are you always available, or have you other work

> to do?

>

> M: I am always available, but the hours in the

> morning and late

> afternoon are the most convenient.

>

> Q: I understand that no work ranks higher than the

> work of a

> spiritual teacher.

>

> M: The motive matters supremely.

>

>

**

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