Guest guest Posted March 11, 2006 Report Share Posted March 11, 2006 In a message dated 3/9/2006 2:20:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, lastrain writes: > Tonight.....in your dream ....try to get out.....Try anything you can think > of to get out...... > > That will teach you everything you need to know. > > toombaru > L.E: What is a dream? In a way, a dream is none of my business just as the operation of the liver or circulation of blood is none of my business. The exception is if there is some disease that is detectable from the level of the ordinary self. Same as with tooth decay. Do you go to the dentist? Who is it that takes care of teeth? How does this who exist or does it exist? I don't think the ordianary self can learn anything from a dream. Dreaming is usually an unconscious process and its purposes are internal, again, like the operation of the pancreas or brain. These organs usually run themselves on the organism level and don't need to be tended by the ordinary ego self. Perhaps there is an exception to this at times when disease occurrs, but usually it runs itself even if the ordinary self becomes aware of dreams at times. Do you ever become aware of the operation of your blood? Of course, " your blood " is just a way of speaking. There is no " your blood " actually, because there is no permanent or existant " you. " So the whole idea of " trying to get out " of a dreams makes no sense and there is nothing to learn by or from it. But even if you are correct, how can " trying to get out " teach someone something? There is nobody to be taught anything although there is learning. If dreams are under conscious control, which they are probably usually not, I suppose you can get out of the ones you invent to be gotten out of. But I have had the experience, " I am dreaming, " and pulled myself out of it, stopped the process, and got back in again although this is rare because as I said, in a way, a dream is none of my business. Of couse you can assume that if you become aware of a dream, there is a process of sickness that the ego has to consider like an x-ray that shows cancer, or having a toothache and needing dental help. And in conclusion, to me, life is not a dream, or like a dream, it is more like an infinite set of interference patters that interlock or interrelate to produce a cascading series of apparent realities like moire pattersn or those energies that produce " standing waves " that don't exist in themselves but take on forms as differing degrees of energy interact. This is like: as the the realm of atoms relate, the realm of molequles appears to exist, and as the molequels relate, the realm of cells appears to exist. Each level of energy sets up the energy patterns for the next level. All organisms are another of these levels, and as they or we interact, the level of ego or self appears, but all the levels are appearances and have no inner permanence or subsistence. Think about moire patterns ( look it up on the internet.) The static patterns overlap to produce a higher or second level of apparent movement, that doesn't exist in itself. That's why and how the ego or self appears to exist but has no self essence of its own and dissolves when awareness moves away from its level of apparency. Larry Epston www.epston.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2006 Report Share Posted March 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 2:20:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, > lastrain writes: > > > Tonight.....in your dream ....try to get out.....Try anything you can think > > of to get out...... > > > > That will teach you everything you need to know. > > > > toombaru > > > L.E: What is a dream? In a way, a dream is none of my business You might consider researching the central conceptual construct that there is such a thing as " my business " before traveling further and further down the yellow brick road. just as the > operation of the liver or circulation of blood is none of my business. The > exception is if there is some disease that is detectable from the level of the > ordinary self. > Same as with tooth decay. Do you go to the dentist? The teeth in this old head need constant help. Who is it that takes > care of teeth? The dentist. How does this who exist or does it exist? > I don't think the ordianary self can learn anything from a dream. It is the dream.......The conceptual dream of separation. Dreaming > is usually an unconscious process and its purposes are internal, again, like > the operation of the pancreas or brain. These organs usually run themselves on > the organism level and don't need to be tended by the ordinary ego self. > Perhaps there is an exception to this at times when disease occurrs, but usually > it runs itself even if the ordinary self becomes aware of dreams at times. Do > you ever become aware of the operation of your blood? Of course, " your blood " > is just a way of speaking. There is no " your blood " actually, because there > is no permanent or existant " you. " There is blood....there are bodies........but no self. > So the whole idea of " trying to get out " of a dreams makes no sense and there > is nothing to learn by or from it. Then stay where you are.......if you can. But even if you are correct, how can > " trying to get out " teach someone something? It can teach 'you' that there is nothing to get of. It can teach you that the thing that you believed you were...never was......and yet....something IS....... That understanding can turn the whole world inside out..... And this youness finds its self walking joyfully within its Self. > There is nobody to be taught > anything although there is learning. There is nothing to be learned.....only unlearned. If dreams are under conscious control, which > they are probably usually not, I suppose you can get out of the ones you invent > to be gotten out of. If 'you' get out of your dream.........where could you go. There is nothing beyond a dream. > But I have had the experience, " I am dreaming, " and pulled myself out of it, The one that you thought you were in the dream....whild dreaming.....never got out. > stopped the process, and got back in again although this is rare because as I > said, in a way, a dream is none of my business. The dream is your only business. Of couse you can assume that > if you become aware of a dream, there is a process of sickness that the ego The ego is the ultimate sickness. > has to consider like an x-ray that shows cancer, or having a toothache and > needing dental help. > And in conclusion, to me, life is not a dream, Nothing can get a good look at itself. or like a dream, it is more > like an infinite set of interference patters that interlock or interrelate to > produce a cascading series of apparent realities like moire pattersn or those > energies that produce " standing waves " that don't exist in themselves but take > on forms as differing degrees of energy interact. > This is like: as the the realm of atoms relate, the realm of molequles > appears to exist, and as the molequels relate, the realm of cells appears to exist. > Each level of energy sets up the energy patterns for the next level. All > organisms are another of these levels, and as they or we interact, the level of > ego or self appears, but all the levels are appearances and have no inner > permanence or subsistence. Think about moire patterns ( look it up on the > internet.) The static patterns overlap to produce a higher or second level of > apparent movement, that doesn't exist in itself. That's why and how the ego or self > appears to exist but has no self essence of its own and dissolves when > awareness moves away from its level of apparency. > > Larry Epston > www.epston.com > > .........dream stuff. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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