Guest guest Posted March 12, 2006 Report Share Posted March 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5@> wrote: > > > > P: To control means to check, to test, to verify, to influence > > > > > > > > >the direction of change. Yes, that I want to do whenever > > > > >possible. > > > > > > samanthaT7: but hey, didn't I read that you're a proponent of the > > determinist/no choice angle? How do you convince yourself that you > > have no choice while you're also trying to influence change? > > > > P: Hi Sam, Good question. > > First, let's say choice always exist, as a > > variety of outcomes which are possible. I > > don't belief in pre-determination. What I > > see is that there is 'no doer' as an entity > > who lives in the head, and selects one > > option over another. > > > > The brain has different centers which have > > been pre-programmed by nature, nurture, and > > random events, and these centers react to > > the input of the environment. So what I call > > 'my actions' is how these centers interact > > with environmental conditions. > > > > To understand how there is choice (the > > possibility of different outcomes without > > need for a doer) let's take the example of > > a drop of water sliding down a window pane. > > It's obvious the drop has no volition, yet > > its descend has several possibilities: > > It can descend in a straight line, it can > > veer to left, or right, or it can meander > > down. > > > > These different paths depend on how many > > particles of dust, or other drops it > > collides with, it depends on the wind, > > the smoothness of the glass, etc. > > > > Suppose, the drop had a brain that would > > interpreted gravity, and its own veering > > under the influence of wind, and dust as > > its own doing. Then the drop could > > conclude, like people do, that it does > > have free will. > > > > Pete > > > > A swing...................and a miss. > > > Pete.........You go to the time out bench....(three minutes). > > > The problem lies in the mentation that not only comes up with the concept 'choice' but > also assumes that this made up 'thing' can be applied to an illusory subject. > > Mixed in that confusing soup....is the assumption of separate 'events'.....that could have > somehow turned out differently then they did. > > Add all that to an illusory 'past' and 'future'.................and............... > > Well no wonder you are a little confused. > > > The solution to this question lies not on the surface.........but much deeper. > > > toombaru > yes, go on........ I'm listening....... the hitch is when the focus is on the illusion. Because it's an illusion you chunk back into the debate about mentation etc. I get that the program is set for the raindrop to fall in a certain manner. Do you get that You set the program and can actually change that program at any time? It may be quite involved by also changing programs that would sustain gravity but it's not to say that the layers of programs couldn't be changed. There is only You Toombaru, setting programs, illusory as they may be, changing them, focusing on different aspect in linar time to perceive them/experience them - do you care that they are illusion? Obviously not. (yours devotedly, Samantha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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