Guest guest Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 >>To be honest, it sounds somehow theoretical to me. Until you put it in practice, it can certainly sound theoretical to you! How does sat-chit-Ananda sound to you? - practical? >> As if you have read a lot of stuff and now repeat it. I surely have read " stuff " . Maybe, not a lot but certainly some but I am not trying to 'merely' repeat it - I try to speak only that which I find true in my own experience - be it similar to what I/you have read or be it different! >>It doesn´t sound like a first hand experience. Little I can do about how something " sounds " to you! >>But maybe I´m wrong. Yes, our *guesses* can easily be wrong. >>Are you saying that you don´t want what you don´t have? I wonder if really read what I had written. I wonder if you really understood what I had written. Please allow me to repeat again: ---- I can " dream " 'future' any way I want - because, future is still not a 'done' reality! " Dreaming " , 'envisioning', 'imagining' about " future " can possibly guide my actions and can tell me what to do! ---- But, what use is 'wanting' something 'different' in the present, in the now? Now is already the case - it has already happened - it can not change! What " good " , 'conscious' or 'sane' reason be there for wanting something 'in now' other that what is already in the now? It doesn't change the reality, it only creating suffering inside. Is there any reason to do that 'consciously'? >>Are you absolutely sure? Read above... and, please tell me what *doubts* do you have? You can " want " anything 'for the future' because future is yet unknown 'possibility'. You can " dream " it, imagine it any way you want. You can even take steps to create it the way you prefer... But, the present is already the case, it is real, it is done. What use is wanting something other than 'what is already the case' in the now? >>You might be just brainwashing yourself to avoid suffering. Read the above... and, tell me if you are playing to be 'brain dead'... key is understanding the difference between possible 'future' and Real 'present'... Why will you want something that you too know is impossible? Present is already the case - why would you want something different that what it is? You can want anything for the future - the future has scope for imagination, dreaming, vision, creation - the present is the realm of seeing, understanding and action! .... To want future to be certain way is quite human... but, to want PRESENT to be any other way than what it is... is... Insane! Is anybody 'consciously' insane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > >>To be honest, it sounds somehow > theoretical to me. > > Until you put it in practice, it can > certainly sound theoretical to you! > > How does sat-chit-Ananda sound to you? > - practical? > > >> As if you have read a lot of stuff > and now repeat it. > > I surely have read " stuff " . Maybe, not > a lot but certainly some but I am not > trying to 'merely' repeat it - I try to > speak only that which I find true in my > own experience - be it similar to what > I/you have read or be it different! > > >>It doesn´t sound like a first hand > experience. > > Little I can do about how something > " sounds " to you! > > > >>But maybe I´m wrong. > > Yes, our *guesses* can easily be wrong. > > > >>Are you saying that you don´t want > what you don´t have? > > I wonder if really read what I had > written. > > I wonder if you really understood what > I had written. > > > Please allow me to repeat again: > > ---- I can " dream " 'future' any way I > want - because, future is still not a > 'done' reality! > > " Dreaming " , 'envisioning', 'imagining' about > " future " can possibly guide my actions > and can tell me what to do! > > > > ---- But, what use is 'wanting' > something 'different' in the present, > in the now? > > Now is already the case - it has > already happened - it can not change! > > What " good " , 'conscious' or 'sane' reason be > there for wanting something 'in now' > other that what is already in the now? > It doesn't change the reality, it only > creating suffering inside. Is there any > reason to do that 'consciously'? > > > > >>Are you absolutely sure? > > Read above... > > and, please tell me what *doubts* do > you have? > > > You can " want " anything 'for the > future' because future is yet unknown > 'possibility'. You can " dream " it, > imagine it any way you want. You can > even take steps to create it the way > you prefer... > > But, the present is already the case, > it is real, it is done. What use is > wanting something other than 'what is > already the case' in the now? > > > >>You might be just brainwashing > yourself to avoid suffering. > > Read the above... > > and, tell me if you are playing to be > 'brain dead'... > > key is understanding the difference > between possible 'future' and Real > 'present'... > > Why will you want something that you > too know is impossible? Present is > already the case - why would you want > something different that what it is? > > You can want anything for the future - > the future has scope for imagination, > dreaming, vision, creation - the > present is the realm of seeing, > understanding and action! > > > ... > > > To want future to be certain way > is quite human... > > but, to want PRESENT to be any other > way than what it is... is... Insane! > > > Is anybody 'consciously' insane? Wanting is always for the future. In the meantime we lost the thread. We were talking about wanting things to feel happy. Do you have anything to say about it? len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 [...] >>Wanting is always for the future. >>In the meantime we lost the thread. >>We were talking about wanting things to feel happy. >>Do you have anything to say about it? It is my *observation* that 'wanting' things 'for the future' with the CLEAR *realization* that they are desired 'in the future' and not now... doesn't make one unhappy! What creates unhappiness is the *insane* thought of *wanting* the *present* to be different than what it is! It is an insane thought because present can not be any other way than what it is and only reason this insane thought stays is because its role, *purpose* and *use* is not examined and questioned! The moment such a thought is question - its insanity and uselessness is revealed - its grip starts slowly fading! With the repeated practice of such investigation of these *insane* thought - their frequency starts decreasing. They also start becoming seen like a *laughable* tendency of mind that is laughed at but, not taken seriously! Once it is seen that there are no *SANE* reasons to 'complain' about 'already real' Present... the major cause of 'unhappiness' disappears! ....and, happiness is not something to be *found*, it is already present if the veils of unhappiness and complains are removed! .... Wanting things with full *realization* that they are wanted *in future*, rarely creates unhappiness! They only act like a dream, a vision, a mission... that guides present actions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > >>Wanting is always for the future. > >>In the meantime we lost the thread. > >>We were talking about wanting things > to feel happy. > >>Do you have anything to say about it? > > > It is my *observation* that 'wanting' > things 'for the future' with the CLEAR > *realization* that they are desired 'in > the future' and not now... doesn't make > one unhappy! Interesting. I´m questioning it though. I´ll tell you about what happened to me once. I was in love :-) Desperately. But somewhere I knew that this love was impossible. I was dreaming about how much I wanted to be with the person, in some near future. Not in the very moment, the very moment was OK like it was, but in the near future, one day, when I´m still not too old to enjoy I wanted to be with the person. And then I realized that it was really impossible. That it really didn´t make sense to think about it, because it would never be. I realized that I had to give up the hope. (think of " You´re beautiful " of James Blunt ;-) And then I felt so deeply unhappy. Afterwards something interesting happened, but I might tell you later. Now just this, to show that losing hope for a positive change in the future can make one unhappy. What do you say? Len > What creates unhappiness is the > *insane* thought of *wanting* the > *present* to be different than what it > is! It is an insane thought because > present can not be any other way than > what it is and only reason this insane > thought stays is because its role, > *purpose* and *use* is not examined and > questioned! > > > The moment such a thought is question - > its insanity and uselessness is > revealed - its grip starts slowly fading! > > > With the repeated practice of such > investigation of these *insane* thought > - their frequency starts decreasing. > They also start becoming seen like a > *laughable* tendency of mind that is > laughed at but, not taken seriously! > > > Once it is seen that there are no > *SANE* reasons to 'complain' about > 'already real' Present... the major > cause of 'unhappiness' disappears! > > > ...and, happiness is not something to > be *found*, it is already present if > the veils of unhappiness and complains > are removed! > > > > ... > > > Wanting things with full *realization* > that they are wanted *in future*, > rarely creates unhappiness! They > only act like a dream, a vision, a > mission... that guides present actions! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 damn, i was just about to delete my membership to this group because it all justed seemed like to much to digeist , kinda like my mind wasn't strong enough! But the more i read it daily, things kinda get more and more clear! this last inserpt took the cake, im staying apart of this group! it helps my confused thoughts and emotions in some strange way. Maybe in a couple of years all be talking like you all! lissbon2002 <lissbon2002 wrote: --- In Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > >>Wanting is always for the future. > >>In the meantime we lost the thread. > >>We were talking about wanting things > to feel happy. > >>Do you have anything to say about it? > > > It is my *observation* that 'wanting' > things 'for the future' with the CLEAR > *realization* that they are desired 'in > the future' and not now... doesn't make > one unhappy! Interesting. I´m questioning it though. I´ll tell you about what happened to me once. I was in love :-) Desperately. But somewhere I knew that this love was impossible. I was dreaming about how much I wanted to be with the person, in some near future. Not in the very moment, the very moment was OK like it was, but in the near future, one day, when I´m still not too old to enjoy I wanted to be with the person. And then I realized that it was really impossible. That it really didn´t make sense to think about it, because it would never be. I realized that I had to give up the hope. (think of " You´re beautiful " of James Blunt ;-) And then I felt so deeply unhappy. Afterwards something interesting happened, but I might tell you later. Now just this, to show that losing hope for a positive change in the future can make one unhappy. What do you say? Len > What creates unhappiness is the > *insane* thought of *wanting* the > *present* to be different than what it > is! It is an insane thought because > present can not be any other way than > what it is and only reason this insane > thought stays is because its role, > *purpose* and *use* is not examined and > questioned! > > > The moment such a thought is question - > its insanity and uselessness is > revealed - its grip starts slowly fading! > > > With the repeated practice of such > investigation of these *insane* thought > - their frequency starts decreasing. > They also start becoming seen like a > *laughable* tendency of mind that is > laughed at but, not taken seriously! > > > Once it is seen that there are no > *SANE* reasons to 'complain' about > 'already real' Present... the major > cause of 'unhappiness' disappears! > > > ...and, happiness is not something to > be *found*, it is already present if > the veils of unhappiness and complains > are removed! > > > > ... > > > Wanting things with full *realization* > that they are wanted *in future*, > rarely creates unhappiness! They > only act like a dream, a vision, a > mission... that guides present actions! > ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 In a message dated 3/16/2006 9:44:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:21:50 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Is anybody 'consciously' insane? / Len Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > >>Wanting is always for the future. > >>In the meantime we lost the thread. > >>We were talking about wanting things > to feel happy. > >>Do you have anything to say about it? > > > It is my *observation* that 'wanting' > things 'for the future' with the CLEAR > *realization* that they are desired 'in > the future' and not now... doesn't make > one unhappy! Interesting. I´m questioning it though. I´ll tell you about what happened to me once. I was in love :-) Desperately. But somewhere I knew that this love was impossible. I was dreaming about how much I wanted to be with the person, in some near future. Not in the very moment, the very moment was OK like it was, but in the near future, one day, when I´m still not too old to enjoy I wanted to be with the person. And then I realized that it was really impossible. That it really didn´t make sense to think about it, because it would never be. I realized that I had to give up the hope. (think of " You´re beautiful " of James Blunt ;-) And then I felt so deeply unhappy. Afterwards something interesting happened, but I might tell you later. Now just this, to show that losing hope for a positive change in the future can make one unhappy. What do you say? Len Yes, desire always has an 'I' in the future. This is the problem rather than the solution. It requires an excessive imagination to even ponder trying to change the present moment. The mind would have to be in the present moment in order to do this, and if it is, it's not desiring anything for the future. This is the reason for remaining in the present. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 In a message dated 3/16/2006 9:44:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 07:44:42 -0800 (PST) Antwan Penn <esiasemanuel Re: Re: Is anybody 'consciously' insane? / Len damn, i was just about to delete my membership to this group because it all justed seemed like to much to digeist , kinda like my mind wasn't strong enough! But the more i read it daily, things kinda get more and more clear! this last inserpt took the cake, im staying apart of this group! it helps my confused thoughts and emotions in some strange way. Maybe in a couple of years all be talking like you all! Lordy, I hope not, for your sake. ~ Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/16/2006 9:44:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:21:50 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Is anybody 'consciously' insane? / Len > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > >>Wanting is always for the future. > > >>In the meantime we lost the thread. > > >>We were talking about wanting things > > to feel happy. > > >>Do you have anything to say about it? > > > > > > It is my *observation* that 'wanting' > > things 'for the future' with the CLEAR > > *realization* that they are desired 'in > > the future' and not now... doesn't make > > one unhappy! > > > Interesting. > I´m questioning it though. > I´ll tell you about what happened to me once. > I was in love :-) > Desperately. > But somewhere I knew that this love was impossible. > I was dreaming about how much I wanted to be with the person, in > some near future. Not in the very moment, the very moment was OK > like it was, but in the near future, one day, when I´m still not too > old to enjoy I wanted to be with the person. > And then I realized that it was really impossible. That it really > didn´t make sense to think about it, because it would never be. I > realized that I had to give up the hope. (think of " You´re > beautiful " of James Blunt ;-) > And then I felt so deeply unhappy. > Afterwards something interesting happened, but I might tell you > later. > Now just this, to show that losing hope for a positive change in the > future can make one unhappy. > What do you say? > > Len > > > > > Yes, desire always has an 'I' in the future. This is the problem rather than > the solution. It requires an excessive imagination to even ponder trying to > change the present moment. The mind would have to be in the present moment in > order to do this, and if it is, it's not desiring anything for the future. > This is the reason for remaining in the present. > > Phil Hi Phil, I don´t question the importance of remaining in the present, and of dealing with the frustration of not having something rather then dreaming away in the hope to get it one day. I´m not sure though whether it means the end of all desire for the future. Actualy I don´t think so. Some desire for the future will probably always be there and will motivate our present actions. Think of wanting a nice home for yoursef. It´s only because I desired it, that I was able to renovate an old house with a lot of physical effort, and to make it into a lovely home I live in now. Maybe we shouldn´t geneneralize so much: some desires are meaningful, realistic, thay remain and are fuelling our efforts, some other desires stop when we realize their futility. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 In a message dated 3/17/2006 12:37:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:12:51 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Is anybody 'consciously' insane? / Len Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/16/2006 9:44:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:21:50 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Is anybody 'consciously' insane? / Len > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > >>Wanting is always for the future. > > >>In the meantime we lost the thread. > > >>We were talking about wanting things > > to feel happy. > > >>Do you have anything to say about it? > > > > > > It is my *observation* that 'wanting' > > things 'for the future' with the CLEAR > > *realization* that they are desired 'in > > the future' and not now... doesn't make > > one unhappy! > > > Interesting. > I´m questioning it though. > I´ll tell you about what happened to me once. > I was in love :-) > Desperately. > But somewhere I knew that this love was impossible. > I was dreaming about how much I wanted to be with the person, in > some near future. Not in the very moment, the very moment was OK > like it was, but in the near future, one day, when I´m still not too > old to enjoy I wanted to be with the person. > And then I realized that it was really impossible. That it really > didn´t make sense to think about it, because it would never be. I > realized that I had to give up the hope. (think of " You´re > beautiful " of James Blunt ;-) > And then I felt so deeply unhappy. > Afterwards something interesting happened, but I might tell you > later. > Now just this, to show that losing hope for a positive change in the > future can make one unhappy. > What do you say? > > Len > > > > > Yes, desire always has an 'I' in the future. This is the problem rather than > the solution. It requires an excessive imagination to even ponder trying to > change the present moment. The mind would have to be in the present moment in > order to do this, and if it is, it's not desiring anything for the future. > This is the reason for remaining in the present. > > Phil Hi Phil, I don´t question the importance of remaining in the present, and of dealing with the frustration of not having something rather then dreaming away in the hope to get it one day. I´m not sure though whether it means the end of all desire for the future. Actualy I don´t think so. Some desire for the future will probably always be there and will motivate our present actions. Think of wanting a nice home for yoursef. It´s only because I desired it, that I was able to renovate an old house with a lot of physical effort, and to make it into a lovely home I live in now. Maybe we shouldn´t geneneralize so much: some desires are meaningful, realistic, thay remain and are fuelling our efforts, some other desires stop when we realize their futility. Len That's fine. Some here are interested in transcending the illusion rather than improving it. This may mean 'desiring' whatever shows up. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/17/2006 12:37:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:12:51 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Is anybody 'consciously' insane? / Len > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 3/16/2006 9:44:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:21:50 -0000 > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > Re: Is anybody 'consciously' insane? / Len > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > > wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > >>Wanting is always for the future. > > > >>In the meantime we lost the thread. > > > >>We were talking about wanting things > > > to feel happy. > > > >>Do you have anything to say about it? > > > > > > > > > It is my *observation* that 'wanting' > > > things 'for the future' with the CLEAR > > > *realization* that they are desired 'in > > > the future' and not now... doesn't make > > > one unhappy! > > > > > > Interesting. > > I´m questioning it though. > > I´ll tell you about what happened to me once. > > I was in love :-) > > Desperately. > > But somewhere I knew that this love was impossible. > > I was dreaming about how much I wanted to be with the person, in > > some near future. Not in the very moment, the very moment was OK > > like it was, but in the near future, one day, when I´m still not > too > > old to enjoy I wanted to be with the person. > > And then I realized that it was really impossible. That it really > > didn´t make sense to think about it, because it would never be. I > > realized that I had to give up the hope. (think of " You´re > > beautiful " of James Blunt ;-) > > And then I felt so deeply unhappy. > > Afterwards something interesting happened, but I might tell you > > later. > > Now just this, to show that losing hope for a positive change in > the > > future can make one unhappy. > > What do you say? > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > Yes, desire always has an 'I' in the future. This is the problem > rather than > > the solution. It requires an excessive imagination to even ponder > trying to > > change the present moment. The mind would have to be in the > present moment in > > order to do this, and if it is, it's not desiring anything for the > future. > > This is the reason for remaining in the present. > > > > Phil > > > > Hi Phil, > > I don´t question the importance of remaining in the present, and of > dealing with the frustration of not having something rather then > dreaming away in the hope to get it one day. > I´m not sure though whether it means the end of all desire for the > future. > Actualy I don´t think so. Some desire for the future will probably > always be there and will motivate our present actions. Think of > wanting a nice home for yoursef. It´s only because I desired it, > that I was able to renovate an old house with a lot of physical > effort, and to make it into a lovely home I live in now. > Maybe we shouldn´t geneneralize so much: some desires are > meaningful, realistic, thay remain and are fuelling our efforts, > some other desires stop when we realize their futility. > > Len > > > > That's fine. Some here are interested in transcending the illusion rather > than improving it. This may mean 'desiring' whatever shows up. > > Phil Yes, I understand that. However, when this interest becomes a goal, one might end up denying or suppressing desires, which will catch him in an endless, unconsciuos effort(wanting) not to want anything. All religious, idealistic striving is full of effort and therefore can never lead to the end of effort. That's the paradox. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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