Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 The meaning of " returning to the market > place riding the bull " , is not to naively > proclaim because I'm liberated, you are > all liberated and there is no delusion, > and no suffering, and no one exist > and no thing ever happened. No, it's to > admit that there is no individual > liberation. We return to the market to > put our shoulder to the illusory wheel > crushing our collective illusory chest. > Suffering might be a dream, but it still > hurts. And we can't dismiss the nightmares > of Iraq, the slums of Calcutta, or the > devastation of New Orleans, as non existing. > > Pete ~~~ of course not. i do think it is often misunderstood to meam something like that ... but that is indeed a misinterpretation. it isn't about dismissing/denying/excluding anything ... just the opposite ... it is simply seeing and accepting things as they are. and please note, 'acceptance' does not mean we have to agree with or suppoart all we perceive ... but only that we accept what is, as the reality ... in any given situation. see it for what it is. and from that place of not being emotionally invested ... or no longer being fooled by appearances ... or attached to an outcome ... we may find ourselves in a position to actually act in an effective way, rather than simply re-acting unconsciously out of/through our condidtioning. now, we may actually be of use on occasion ... and perhaps be able to provide assistance or guidence ... or 'improve' a situation for ourselves or someone else. we are now in a position to really begin to appreciate life for what it is. i'm including here some commentary that i recently added to the Ox Herding series i have online at: http://peace.wikicities.com/wiki/Seeking_The_Ox the following is from the 10th picture ... 'Entering The Marketplace With Open Hands' perhaps it will resonate with some. thanks pete -ts- ~~~ " This last stage represents freedom, wisdom and compassion. We are not encumbered by appearances. We adapt freely to high and low places. We find spirituality everywhere, it is not confined to monasteries and secluded places. Meditation and realization do not make us passive but active. We are deeply connected to the world, we feel its suffering and we want to respond and help. Our bag is full of joy, compassion, understanding, loving-kindness, wisdom and skilful means. We naturally give to ourselves and others what is beneficial. We listen deeply, we observe unobtrusively and respond appropriately. When we give we do not expect anything. We are not superior to others when we help them, on the contrary helping them is like helping ourselves and we are grateful they give us that opportunity to extend ourselves. When we love it is with total acceptance. We do not help only people we like but also people who are difficult. However, we do not force our ideas†" our opinions, what works for us†" on others. We try to bring lightness into people's lives. We do not take it all too seriously. When we look at the Ten Oxherding Pictures we have to be careful not to think that self-development and Zen practice go in a straight line. It is more like a spiral. We go round and up, hopefully. We go back to different stages but with more understanding. We deepen our realization of each stage as we continue on the path. We still have delusions and attachments to shed. We discover more ways to develop concentration and enquiry further. Master Kusan had three different major awakenings, and each time he continued to practise even more. The last time, his own teacher, Master Hyobong, said: " Until now you have been following me; now it is I who should follow you. " ~ Zen, by Martine Batchelor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 <1) Everyone is enlightened. 2) And peace was always the case. 3) Because there is no I, suffering doesn't exist. 4) Because there is no " I, " existence doesn't exist. 5) All that is needed for liberation is to believe those four slogans above.> Pete ..................................................... How to believe? I am afraid I don`t believe in believing. But, as a gnostic would say, I long for the daily experience of Reality touching me. I then do experience Grace, but do I beleive in it? Beleif seems to be memory, Grace is a reality. Patricia .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 On Mar 20, 2006, at 7:50 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: > Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:14:13 +0100 (CET) > OConnor Patricia <gdtige > RE: Suffering And Pleasure > P: You quote me here, as if I were affirming those 5 errors as truth. I very clearly wrote they were the 5 naive naive errors of pseudo enlightenment. And you long for mental pleasure, and stimulation, and if you pay a little more attention to reading, and whatever is in front of you, then there would not be any need to long for reality. Can you see how silly is to say, that you long for reality, what else is there? It's your scattered attention which fragments reality into a puzzle of discordant pieces. > > > <1) Everyone is enlightened. > > 2) And peace was always the case. > > 3) Because there is no I, suffering doesn't > exist. > > 4) Because there is no " I, " > existence doesn't exist. > > 5) All that is needed for liberation is to > believe those four slogans above.> > > > > Pete > .................................................... > How to believe? I am afraid I don`t believe in > believing. But, as a gnostic would say, I long for the > daily experience of Reality touching me. > I then do experience Grace, but do I beleive in it? > Beleif seems to be memory, > Grace is a reality. > Patricia > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 OOOPS, sorry I misread you! --- Pete S <pedsie5 a écrit : On Mar 20, 2006, at 7:50 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: > Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:14:13 +0100 (CET) > OConnor Patricia <gdtige > RE: Suffering And Pleasure > P: You quote me here, as if I were affirming those 5 errors as truth. I very clearly wrote they were the 5 naive naive errors of pseudo enlightenment. And you long for mental pleasure, and stimulation, and if you pay a little more attention to reading, and whatever is in front of you, then there would not be any need to long for reality. Can you see how silly is to say, that you long for reality, what else is there? It's your scattered attention which fragments reality into a puzzle of discordant pieces. > > > <1) Everyone is enlightened. > > 2) And peace was always the case. > > 3) Because there is no I, suffering doesn't > exist. > > 4) Because there is no " I, " > existence doesn't exist. > > 5) All that is needed for liberation is to > believe those four slogans above.> > > > > Pete > .................................................... > How to believe? I am afraid I don`t believe in > believing. But, as a gnostic would say, I long for the > daily experience of Reality touching me. > I then do experience Grace, but do I beleive in it? > Beleif seems to be memory, > Grace is a reality. > Patricia > > ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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