Food for thought - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and drank milk

March 29, 2006

Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> > Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:25:49 -0000

> > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

> drank milk

> >

> > > It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as

> unreal.

> > > It´s up to them.

> > > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> > > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> > > There is necessary suffering?

> > >

> > > Phil

> >

> > I may cause suffering through saying or doing something, which

> > however seems the right thing to do and thus: necessary.

> > The suffering triggered by it in the other person is of course

> not

> > necessary, but if the person doesn't see that, it happens

anyway.

> > This is not my responsibility, if what I do is really

unavoidable

> and

> > not a result of my (unconscious) need to hurt.

> > After all suffering to some degree seems necessary to understand

> that

> > it isn't necessary ;-)

> >

> > Len

>

> > True, suffering seems necessary in order to understand that

> suffering isn't

> > necessary, but of course it isn't.

> >

> > One does not cause suffering for another. One may do horrific

> things to the

> > other, but the suffering must originate within the other.

>

> Certainly. But the intention to hurt is yours. This is your

> responsibility. This intention to hurt originates from your

> suffering.

>

> > Also, these are not

> > volitional humans creating experience.

>

> Observe yourself and see that you´re full of volition.

> All conflict is caused by volition. When there is no volition,

there

> is no conflict.

>

> Len

>

> > Experience is created in a single

> > consciousness according to dynamics of perception seemingly

> ocurring within the

> > human. If 'you' do something horrific to 'me', 'you' did not

cause

> it, 'I'

> > did. (I can hear Larry already.

> >

> > Phil

> >

> > Me too! And to that tune, before it sounds, may I say, " Praise

the Lord and Pass the Pancakes! " .........bob ( ;-0)___

> > !

>-

> >

March 29, 2006

Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> > Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:25:49 -0000

> > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

> drank milk

> >

> > > It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as

> unreal.

> > > It´s up to them.

> > > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> > > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> > > There is necessary suffering?

> > >

> > > Phil

> >

> > I may cause suffering through saying or doing something, which

> > however seems the right thing to do and thus: necessary.

> > The suffering triggered by it in the other person is of course

> not

> > necessary, but if the person doesn't see that, it happens

anyway.

> > This is not my responsibility, if what I do is really

unavoidable

> and

> > not a result of my (unconscious) need to hurt.

> > After all suffering to some degree seems necessary to

understand

> that

> > it isn't necessary ;-)

> >

> > Len

>

> > True, suffering seems necessary in order to understand that

> suffering isn't

> > necessary, but of course it isn't.

> >

> > One does not cause suffering for another. One may do horrific

> things to the

> > other, but the suffering must originate within the other.

>

> Certainly. But the intention to hurt is yours. This is your

> responsibility. This intention to hurt originates from your

> suffering.

>

> > Also, these are not

> > volitional humans creating experience.

>

> Observe yourself and see that you´re full of volition.

> All conflict is caused by volition. When there is no volition,

there

> is no conflict.

>

> Len

***********

This reminds me of something someone told me about smoking pot.

Nobody would have the volition to go to war if they were always

stoned or something like that. I don't smoke the stuff so I

wouldn't know. Although I have no desire to make war either and I'm

not stoned. Whatever. I'll shut up now.

" Silver "

>

> > Experience is created in a single

> > consciousness according to dynamics of perception seemingly

> ocurring within the

> > human. If 'you' do something horrific to 'me', 'you' did not

cause

> it, 'I'

> > did. (I can hear Larry already.

> >

> > Phil

> >

March 29, 2006

Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069 wrote:

> ***********

>

> This reminds me of something someone told me about smoking pot.

> Nobody would have the volition to go to war if they were always

> stoned or something like that. I don't smoke the stuff so I

> wouldn't know. Although I have no desire to make war either and I'm

> not stoned. Whatever. I'll shut up now.

>

> " Silver "

>

You´re sure you´re not stoned? ;-)

len

March 29, 2006

Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@> wrote:

>

> > ***********

> >

> > This reminds me of something someone told me about smoking pot.

> > Nobody would have the volition to go to war if they were always

> > stoned or something like that. I don't smoke the stuff so I

> > wouldn't know. Although I have no desire to make war either and

I'm

> > not stoned. Whatever. I'll shut up now.

> >

> > " Silver "

> >

>

> You´re sure you´re not stoned? ;-)

>

> len

>

" Who cast the first stone? " , asked the quizical stoner. Then he

waged war with the pigs he thought he saw. Not a pretty picture, but

it looked like a Dali to him.. ;-)

.......bob

March 29, 2006

> > > not stoned. Whatever. I'll shut up now.

> > >

> > > " Silver "

> > >

> >

> > You´re sure you´re not stoned? ;-)

> >

I have been stoned..................and I have been sconed.

I like sconed better.

toombaru

March 29, 2006

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> > > > not stoned. Whatever. I'll shut up now.

> > > >

> > > > " Silver "

> > > >

> > >

> > > You´re sure you´re not stoned? ;-)

> > >

>

> I have been stoned..................and I have been sconed.

>

> I like sconed better.

>

> toombaru

>

On a quiet weeknight..'tis better than phoned.

......bob

March 29, 2006

In a message dated 3/29/2006 9:08:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:19:16 -0000

" lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and drank milk

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

> Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:25:49 -0000

> " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

> Re: " Food for thought " - Mohondas Ghandi ate meat and

drank milk

>

> It´s not up to me to recognize the suffering of others as

unreal.

> > It´s up to them.

> > It´s up to me not to cause unencessary suffering, through

> > recognizing the need to do so as unreal.

> >

> > Len

> >

> > There is necessary suffering?

> >

> > Phil

>

> I may cause suffering through saying or doing something, which

> however seems the right thing to do and thus: necessary.

> The suffering triggered by it in the other person is of course

not

> necessary, but if the person doesn't see that, it happens anyway.

> This is not my responsibility, if what I do is really unavoidable

and

> not a result of my (unconscious) need to hurt.

> After all suffering to some degree seems necessary to understand

that

> it isn't necessary ;-)

>

> Len

> True, suffering seems necessary in order to understand that

suffering isn't

> necessary, but of course it isn't.

>

> One does not cause suffering for another. One may do horrific

things to the

> other, but the suffering must originate within the other.

Certainly. But the intention to hurt is yours. This is your

responsibility. This intention to hurt originates from your

suffering.

> Also, these are not

> volitional humans creating experience.

Observe yourself and see that you´re full of volition.

All conflict is caused by volition. When there is no volition, there

is no conflict.

Len

I have observed that my choices are the inevitable outcome of my experience.

There is only one choice possible, given my conditions of birth, the

internal dynamics present at birth, my experience and all of my choices based

on

those conditions, dynamics and experience. All of that has led to the present

moment in which I can make a choice. What choice will I make? I will make the

only one I can based on what came before.

My ego would dearly love to find that it has volitional choice, and it

generally pretends it does even though I know better, but I'll be damned if I

can

find a 'me' who is able to do that. I'm more than willing to change my mind

about that.

Phil

> Experience is created in a single

> consciousness according to dynamics of perception seemingly

ocurring within the

> human. If 'you' do something horrific to 'me', 'you' did not cause

it, 'I'

> did. (I can hear Larry already.

>

> Phil

March 30, 2006

Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@> wrote:

>

> > ***********

> >

> > This reminds me of something someone told me about smoking pot.

> > Nobody would have the volition to go to war if they were always

> > stoned or something like that. I don't smoke the stuff so I

> > wouldn't know. Although I have no desire to make war either and

I'm

> > not stoned. Whatever. I'll shut up now.

> >

> > " Silver "

> >

>

> You´re sure you´re not stoned? ;-)

>

> len

>

**********

How did we go from discussing vegetarianism and Ghandi eating meat

and drinking milk to getting stoned?? LOL. We must both be on

drugs. Hehe.

B-)

" Silver "

March 30, 2006

Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > 1069@> wrote:

> >

> > > ***********

> > >

> > > This reminds me of something someone told me about smoking

pot.

> > > Nobody would have the volition to go to war if they were

always

> > > stoned or something like that. I don't smoke the stuff so I

> > > wouldn't know. Although I have no desire to make war either

and

> I'm

> > > not stoned. Whatever. I'll shut up now.

> > >

> > > " Silver "

> > >

> >

> > You´re sure you´re not stoned? ;-)

> >

> > len

> >

> " Who cast the first stone? " , asked the quizical stoner. Then he

> waged war with the pigs he thought he saw. Not a pretty picture,

but

> it looked like a Dali to him.. ;-)

>

> .......bob

>

**********

It was because of the Magick Mushrooms.

" Silver "

March 30, 2006

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> > > > not stoned. Whatever. I'll shut up now.

> > > >

> > > > " Silver "

> > > >

> > >

> > > You´re sure you´re not stoned? ;-)

> > >

>

> I have been stoned..................and I have been sconed.

>

> I like sconed better.

>

> toombaru

>

**********

There is no " I " to better like anything. " You " don't exist.

Remember?

" Silver "

March 30, 2006

Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > 1069@> wrote:

> >

> > > ***********

> > >

> > > This reminds me of something someone told me about smoking

pot.

> > > Nobody would have the volition to go to war if they were always

> > > stoned or something like that. I don't smoke the stuff so I

> > > wouldn't know. Although I have no desire to make war either

and

> I'm

> > > not stoned. Whatever. I'll shut up now.

> > >

> > > " Silver "

> > >

> >

> > You´re sure you´re not stoned? ;-)

> >

> > len

> >

>

> **********

>

> How did we go from discussing vegetarianism and Ghandi eating meat

> and drinking milk to getting stoned?? LOL. We must both be on

> drugs. Hehe.

>

> B-)

>

> " Silver "

>

Very interesting thing Silver. I've noticed a drifting into the

area of soft drugs and their effects in several strings and streams

of conversation in here lately. And what's even more enlightening is

to view the tittering about the subject and so forth, followed by

complete denial of the use thereof at the present moment or ever by

the contributor doing the writing. A total nonidentification with the

devil drugs. It's like Simon Peter..'I don't know him now...maybe in

the past,in a time that is no more, but certainly not now'.. now that

I am all that I can be and far more Aware and Enlightened and no

longer childish(that one really gets me as being very sad, and a

terrible state to ever lose), etc. What is the BIG deal about

marijuana or other herbs and fungi. It's neat and tidy to say

something like,' I don't need that stuff anymore or other such

claptrap, but as I recall, no one ever NEEDED a joint or peyote cap

or mushroom cap or tea or coffee, Booze is another thing. I've seen

plenty of people that sure give evidence to need that when it comes

to that particular poison, but that's ok..that's something which like

wine can be enjoyed as relaxing and even sacred. And if someone has

a drinking problem, well they are either sick or of loose

character...certainly not the 'stuffs' fault. It's like smoking

cigarettes, not healthy, and surely, more and more, not socially

acceptable, but even if it does cause cancer , heart disease etc.

etc. it certainly is not as degraded as dope.This is bullshit.Who

cares and all that denial is sounding to me like a little too much

denial, it really says a whole lot more than all the words and

platitudes that abound about being above it all, even as it's all

spoken with a nudge nudge, wink wink. Like Bob Dylan said..'everyone

must get stoned', and he wasn't talking about the Magdalene's

experience either.But of course Alas and alack I'm very much grown up

now and all that adolescent nonesense is behind me. I'm off to far

more important things like my spritual centering and science and

politics and number theory and social awareness and......well you can

determine where all that's going.Anyway those things of and by

themselves don't bother me, I have several aquaintances the do

marijuana, coffee, tea, alcohol,cigarettes and on and on. None of

them are either more enlightened for it nor less so either.And I am

not for not doing those substances either.Niether more no less.and

that's the truth. None of that stuff has anything to do with anything

as regards Self, Awareness, Enlightenment, Realization, Recognition,

nirvane, mokshe, Samsara or the Hells..that's all about

us/I/you/it/those/whatever. The self righteousness of the derision

with snickering is all too much.

........bob

March 30, 2006

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

> I have observed that my choices are the inevitable outcome of my

experience.

> There is only one choice possible, given my conditions of birth,

the

> internal dynamics present at birth, my experience and all of my

choices based on

> those conditions, dynamics and experience. All of that has led to

the present

> moment in which I can make a choice. What choice will I make? I

will make the

> only one I can based on what came before.

>

> My ego would dearly love to find that it has volitional choice,

and it

> generally pretends it does even though I know better, but I'll be

damned if I can

> find a 'me' who is able to do that. I'm more than willing to

change my mind

> about that.

>

> Phil

What you´re saying is an Advaita conditioning.

Let´s look at it afresh:

You are conditioned. Because of your conditioning you see only one

possibility of reacting (or at least, the possibilities are limited

to a certain spectrum). You say that there is no volition in it.

But, in fact, from a larger perspective, there are billions of

possibilities of reacting and chosing. Your choice is limited to

only one. You have been conditioned to chose this possibility among

other. You have been conditioned to WANT this possibility among

others. You have been conditioned to WANT something. We all have

been conditioned to WANT something, we all have been conditioned to

CHOOSE something. So our conditioning is our volition.

When there is no conditioning, there is no volition.

You don´t have a choice to be free from volition, but through

understanding of the limitation of chosing, the limitation of

volition, you may be free from it.

Len

March 30, 2006

Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > 1069@> wrote:

> >

> > > ***********

> > >

> > > This reminds me of something someone told me about smoking

pot.

> > > Nobody would have the volition to go to war if they were

always

> > > stoned or something like that. I don't smoke the stuff so I

> > > wouldn't know. Although I have no desire to make war either

and

> I'm

> > > not stoned. Whatever. I'll shut up now.

> > >

> > > " Silver "

> > >

> >

> > You´re sure you´re not stoned? ;-)

> >

> > len

> >

>

> **********

>

> How did we go from discussing vegetarianism and Ghandi eating meat

> and drinking milk to getting stoned?? LOL. We must both be on

> drugs. Hehe.

>

> B-)

>

> " Silver "

Oh, so we were discussing Gandhi???

I was probably stoned :-)

Len

March 30, 2006

In a message dated 3/30/2006 8:23:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:29:13 -0000