Regarding Buddha and the notion of suffering/Patricia

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote:

>

>

> --- billrishel <illusyn a écrit :

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia

> <gdtige@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > --- billrishel <illusyn@> a écrit :

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

> > <lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel "

> > <illusyn@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta ,

> " lissbon2002 "

> > <lissbon2002@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta ,

> > " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For forty-five years, the Buddha said, over

> > and over again, " I

> > > teach

> > > > > > only suffering and the transformation of

> > suffering. " When we

> > > > > recognize

> > > > > > and acknowledge our own suffering, the

> Buddha

> > - which means the

> > > > > Buddha

> > > > > > in us - will look at it, discover what has

> > brought it about, and

> > > > > > prescribe a course of action that can

> > transform it into peace,

> > > joy,

> > > > > > and liberation. Suffering is the means the

> > Buddha used to

> > > liberate

> > > > > > himself, and it is also the means by which

> we

> > can become free.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ~ Thich Nhat Hanh

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/tibet/suffering.html

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Conscious suffering brings the suffering to an

> > end, through

> > > revealing

> > > > > its unreal nature.

> > > > > Not that suffering is unreal, because it is

> damn

> > real when it

> > > hurts,

> > > > > but it´s causes are unreal: images.

> > > > >

> > > > > len

> > > > >

> > > > The " hurt " is unreal as well.

> > > > Anything seen/felt as " mine " is unreal.

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > >

> > >

> > > Hurt in the meaning of the pain felt in the body

> is

> > real.

> > > A house is real, whether I call it mine or not,

> it's

> > still there.

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> >

> > You are talking an ordinary language sense of

> > the term real. I am talking in nondual terms.

> >

> > What about *feelings*? Are feelings " real " ?

> > You could argue so, of course. That would

> > be an ordinary way to speak.

> >

> > But I am saying that any feelings one

> > " has " as " one's own " are unreal. They

> > are illusion. If the " hurt " is a feeling

> > one has, then for that ownership process

> > to occur there has to be time. Actually,

> > without time there is no possibility of

> > even labeling as " hurt " or as " my hurt " .

> > Try it when you are in the dentist chair

> > next time. Try being so present with whatever

> > sensations that the sensations are experienced

> > instant by instant. The body might straighten,

> > the abdomen might tighten. But if totally in

> > the Now it is a blur of sensation. Not

> > exactly pleasant, but just a chaos of

> > sensation, nevertheless. When totally in

> > the Now there is no *time* for " I am feeling

> > pain " .

> >

> > So when I say " real " I mean when there is

> > only Now, when there is no time, *that*

> > I am saying, is real.

> >

> > Bill

> >

> > those sensations can also be understood as pure

> > energy.

> > when the mind labels them as " hurt " it resists it.

> > Patricia

> >

>

> let's look at that...

>

> " pure energy " is a label as well, is it not?

>

> so... to-label is to-categorize is

> to-think-about-what-to-do...

>

> that is how it is seeming to me...

>

> that the *very labeling* -- nevermind " what kind of "

> label --

> is a mode of processing that inherently seeks to

> control.

>

> do I witness a flower more purely if I see it as

> " energy "

> or if I have no thought about the flower?

>

> or to see it another way: does not applying a label,

> even one such as " pure energy " , does not that in

> itself

> create a separation, an illusion of

> this-here-labeling,

> that-there-labeled?

>

> I am actually asking.

>

> Bill

>

....describing by mail is one thing..

 

....Plunging in life...falling into it with no but or

if or how...there is a walk, a breath, a tender and

resolute adherence to life that is so keen to death

itself, so estranged from consciousness, where no more

witnessing applies either.

Living kills me,

falling into the arms of the swift current of

unknow...

being hit and transperced,

And..the hurricane within gets multiplied.

...but never hurtful to " others " .

Maybe kindness is the only lost meaning in our life.

Patricia

 

~~~~~~~~~~

 

In those very words

a malestrom whirling...

 

and what's more:

estranged from consciousness...

no witnessing applies either...

 

in such times I have always

found a tiny kernel of truth...

 

a tiny spark of life, of light,

of what is Real...

 

I remember something you wrote once

about a spark of light in the heart...

 

like that

 

 

Bill