Guest guest Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > NOT the only real question... > > > > but will say this: > > feelings that are as " one's own " can seem to utterly disappear. > > does that mean never to appear again? > > that is uncertain... > > > > similarly for emotions and " mental pain " ... > > > > at some point the realization comes that the " sense of 'me' " > > is no more, and with it has gone the many baggages... > > the emotions, the personal feelings, the self-doubts, > > the uncertainties and senses of confusion... > > > > " angst " is the ever present shadow of the sense of a > > " personal self " > > > > and the sense of a personal self *can* evaporate > > > > when it is gone there is a clarity > > a clarity unpolluted > > by any particular > > > > things can still come up > > such as a " feeling of annoyance " as mentioned earlier > > > > if attention is very clear and open to that which > > arises, again it evaporates > > > > and so on, again and again > > > > and this is something that anyone can " practice " > > whatever *arises* > > complete attention to what arises > > > > one need not attain some " state " first > > the only practice > > is attention to whatever arises > > > > and then at times, perhaps only occasionally, > > *nothing* arises > > > > and then, as attention to whatever arises persists, > > " arisings " become ever more rare > > > > and *nothing* arising ever more common > > > > > > Bill > > ********* > Thanks Bill. I get small glimpses or tastes of this state now and then. But it doesn't happen by itself spontaneously. It only occurs if I sit back and make the effort to go like, " Okay. Now Robby, you're taking life way too seriously right now and that's why you're feeling *angst*. Is the matter really all that important? Eventually you're going to die and nothing like this will have meant anything, so CHILL OUT! " And after this type of self-talk, I repeat to myself the words of Nizargadatta, " I am not this or that (_________fill in the blank) and sometimes I get the sensation of peace from this. It's a good state to be in; it just seems to take alot of work to get there and I can't seem to stay there because I get so caught up in my daily activities. I love life and all its ups and downs and immerse myself fully in it but BOY! now and then I need a break from it, you know what I mean? So thanks for expressing for me what it is that I think happens to me when I'm just aware that the sense of 'me' is evaporated for a bit of time. I wish it would stay gone but I need it to engage in the game of Life at the moment. Or don't I??? " Silver " ~~~~~~ First I want to say that nothing beats good, solid honesty like in what you've written here. Thank you! Regarding your question (Or don't I???) I can say most assuredly no. I am very engaged in the many things I find fascinating. I never waste a minute. It can be software architecture, art, talking with people, writing, listening to classical music, reading, mathematics, etc. I don't take it seriously, though. It is child-like. It is just being. But I do all that from a background of profound silence. There is a deep peace that runs through it all. And when I feel to just stop and soak in the silence I do so. So what is different I wonder, in what you describe and in what I describe? You speak of the " sense of 'me' " evaporating for just a moment. Perhaps that is the difference. So point one: having fun and doing a lot of fun stuff is completely possible without a " sense of me " . Actually it gets much better. Creativity greatly expands without all that baggage. Point two: are you curious about that sense of me thing? What is the crux of that? It seems to me that we start experiencing " little bubbles of nirvana " here and there, such as you describe. It's not an all-at-once thing. As I see it Deep Sleep is nirvana, and eventually the craziness that is consciousness gets assimilated into it so that eventually in consciousness we are in the same deep trance that we are in Deep Sleep. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 > > > > NOT the only real question... > > > > but will say this: > > feelings that are as " one's own " can seem to utterly disappear. > > does that mean never to appear again? > > that is uncertain... > > > > similarly for emotions and " mental pain " ... > > > > at some point the realization comes that the " sense of 'me' " > > is no more, and with it has gone the many baggages... > > the emotions, the personal feelings, the self-doubts, > > the uncertainties and senses of confusion... > > > > " angst " is the ever present shadow of the sense of a > > " personal self " > > > > and the sense of a personal self *can* evaporate > > > > when it is gone there is a clarity > > a clarity unpolluted > > by any particular > > > > things can still come up > > such as a " feeling of annoyance " as mentioned earlier > > > > if attention is very clear and open to that which > > arises, again it evaporates > > > > and so on, again and again > > > > and this is something that anyone can " practice " > > whatever *arises* > > complete attention to what arises > > > > one need not attain some " state " first > > the only practice > > is attention to whatever arises > > > > and then at times, perhaps only occasionally, > > *nothing* arises > > > > and then, as attention to whatever arises persists, > > " arisings " become ever more rare > > > > and *nothing* arising ever more common > > > > > > Bill > > ********* > Thanks Bill. I get small glimpses or tastes of this state now and then. But it doesn't happen by itself spontaneously. It only occurs if I sit back and make the effort to go like, " Okay. Now Robby, you're taking life way too seriously right now and that's why you're feeling *angst*. Is the matter really all that important? Eventually you're going to die and nothing like this will have meant anything, so CHILL OUT! " And after this type of self-talk, I repeat to myself the words of Nizargadatta, " I am not this or that (_________fill in the blank) and sometimes I get the sensation of peace from this. It's a good state to be in; it just seems to take alot of work to get there and I can't seem to stay there because I get so caught up in my daily activities. I love life and all its ups and downs and immerse myself fully in it but BOY! now and then I need a break from it, you know what I mean? So thanks for expressing for me what it is that I think happens to me when I'm just aware that the sense of 'me' is evaporated for a bit of time. I wish it would stay gone but I need it to engage in the game of Life at the moment. Or don't I??? " Silver " ~~~~~~ First I want to say that nothing beats good, solid honesty like in what you've written here. Thank you! Regarding your question (Or don't I???) I can say most assuredly no. I am very engaged in the many things I find fascinating. I never waste a minute. It can be software architecture, art, talking with people, writing, listening to classical music, reading, mathematics, etc. I don't take it seriously, though. It is child-like. It is just being. But I do all that from a background of profound silence. There is a deep peace that runs through it all. And when I feel to just stop and soak in the silence I do so. So what is different I wonder, in what you describe and in what I describe? You speak of the " sense of 'me' " evaporating for just a moment. Perhaps that is the difference. So point one: having fun and doing a lot of fun stuff is completely possible without a " sense of me " . Actually it gets much better. Creativity greatly expands without all that baggage. Point two: are you curious about that sense of me thing? What is the crux of that? It seems to me that we start experiencing " little bubbles of nirvana " here and there, such as you describe. It's not an all-at-once thing. As I see it Deep Sleep is nirvana, and eventually the craziness that is consciousness gets assimilated into it so that eventually in consciousness we are in the same deep trance that we are in Deep Sleep. Bill What would happen to a blind man if he was suddenly struck by light again? He`ll definitely go blind. So...patience..don`t ask for more than you can handle. And if you fall 7 times, get up an eigth.. Recognize those bubbles of clarity, cherish them, fully delight in the moment of truth, those are precious vitamins for when the floor board creaks and the wind hallows.. Courage my friend, life is the best teacher, and you seem fully engaged in it. Patricia ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 > First I want to say that nothing beats good, solid > honesty like in what you've written here. Thank you! ********** Nah. It was all nothing but lies. (Kidding.) ********** > Regarding your question (Or don't I???) I can say > most assuredly no. I am very engaged in the many things > I find fascinating. I never waste a minute. It can be > software architecture, art, talking with people, > writing, listening to classical music, reading, > mathematics, etc. I don't take it seriously, though. > It is child-like. It is just being. > > But I do all that from a background of profound > silence. There is a deep peace that runs through it > all. ********** I get that when I colour in my kid's colouring books. And I purposely go outside the lines just to feel like a kid again. ********** > > And when I feel to just stop and soak in the silence > I do so. > > So what is different I wonder, in what you describe > and in what I describe? > > You speak of the " sense of 'me' " evaporating for > just a moment. Perhaps that is the difference. > > So point one: having fun and doing a lot of fun stuff > is completely possible without a " sense of me " . Actually > it gets much better. Creativity greatly expands without > all that baggage. *********** Actually, yes. I can relate to what you're saying here because I do my best creative work in music when I'm not there, so to speak. I'm *in* the music.... Hey! That reminds me of what Niz said about the painter is in the picture. The musician is in the music!! Or when I'm dancing with my girlfriend...I get my groove on! Shake my booty! I get lost in it all, you know? I'm like Baloo the Bear in 'The Jungle Book' story when he's feeling the beat of King Louis' groovy tribal rythms. Man, I can hear the beat now...yeah baby...aah! I'm gone. Woohoo! James Brown gone. That kinda' thing. *********** > > Point two: are you curious about that sense of me thing? > What is the crux of that? ********* I am! I am curious! Like the little monkey named George. I'm curiouser than a cat on nip, man! What's up with the sense of 'me' coming and going, like hearing my favourite song on the radio whenever it should play? 'I' appear when the exstacy of Life appears and disappear when It disappears. How cum that feeling of 'orgasm' cums and uncums? Why can't the 'not-I' just cum forever? It's funny but when the 'I' returns it feels really good inside, all warm and fuzzy and totally at peace. Different than the actual exstacy of present experience because of its remeniscent state. 'I' enjoy just being with the memory of the joy of Life and love the feeling of anticipation of MORE OF IT!!! I'm high on Life, in general...until I find myself thinking too much about the dark side of Life, like the ignorance and lack of Understanding and loving-kindness and compassion we have for each other and for our Mother Earth. I can't watch the news anymore...too depressing. ********** > > It seems to me that we start experiencing " little bubbles > of nirvana " here and there, such as you describe. ********** These " little bubbles of nirvana " sometimes explode upon the scene and sometimes they just seem to float their way into it. It depends on the situation (??) ********** > > It's not an all-at-once thing. > > As I see it Deep Sleep is nirvana, and eventually the > craziness that is consciousness gets assimilated into > it so that eventually in consciousness we are in the > same deep trance that we are in Deep Sleep. ********** You're so right, Bill! Maybe that's why I love drumming on hand drums so much. The repetitious tribal rythms get me into a trance state in which 'I' no longer exist as 'me', the everyday 'me' who works to support a budding family or who has chores to do. In fact, more and more, even mundane tasks are becoming easier and so much FUN (!!) I've never enjoyed doing dishes or shovelling snow or sweeping tiny little rocks off the driveway or doing laundry or going to work every day as much as do now. Life is an awesome experience in ALL its aspects, ups and downs and all arounds. I'm so greatfully dead!! Just to BE...ALIVE.... Strangely, even physical pain is becoming enjoyable for me in the sense that 'I' can go into it deeply without getting attached, if you catch my drift. :-) " Silver " *********** > > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > > > > > > > NOT the only real question... > > > > > > but will say this: > > > feelings that are as " one's own " can seem to > utterly disappear. > > > does that mean never to appear again? > > > that is uncertain... > > > > > > similarly for emotions and " mental pain " ... > > > > > > at some point the realization comes that the > " sense of 'me' " > > > is no more, and with it has gone the many > baggages... > > > the emotions, the personal feelings, the > self-doubts, > > > the uncertainties and senses of confusion... > > > > > > " angst " is the ever present shadow of the sense of > a > > > " personal self " > > > > > > and the sense of a personal self *can* evaporate > > > > > > when it is gone there is a clarity > > > a clarity unpolluted > > > by any particular > > > > > > things can still come up > > > such as a " feeling of annoyance " as mentioned > earlier > > > > > > if attention is very clear and open to that which > > > arises, again it evaporates > > > > > > and so on, again and again > > > > > > and this is something that anyone can " practice " > > > whatever *arises* > > > complete attention to what arises > > > > > > one need not attain some " state " first > > > the only practice > > > is attention to whatever arises > > > > > > and then at times, perhaps only occasionally, > > > *nothing* arises > > > > > > and then, as attention to whatever arises > persists, > > > " arisings " become ever more rare > > > > > > and *nothing* arising ever more common > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > ********* > > > Thanks Bill. I get small glimpses or tastes of this > state now and > then. But it doesn't happen by itself spontaneously. > It only > occurs if I sit back and make the effort to go like, > " Okay. Now > Robby, you're taking life way too seriously right now > and that's why > you're feeling *angst*. Is the matter really all that > important? > Eventually you're going to die and nothing like this > will have meant > anything, so CHILL OUT! " And after this type of > self-talk, I repeat > to myself the words of Nizargadatta, " I am not this or > that > (_________fill in the blank) and sometimes I get the > sensation of > peace from this. It's a good state to be in; it just > seems to take > alot of work to get there and I can't seem to stay > there because I > get so caught up in my daily activities. I love life > and all its > ups and downs and immerse myself fully in it but BOY! > now and then I > need a break from it, you know what I mean? So thanks > for > expressing for me what it is that I think happens to > me when I'm > just aware that the sense of 'me' is evaporated for a > bit of time. > I wish it would stay gone but I need it to engage in > the game of > Life at the moment. Or don't I??? > > " Silver " > > ~~~~~~ > > First I want to say that nothing beats good, solid > honesty like in what you've written here. Thank you! > > Regarding your question (Or don't I???) I can say > most assuredly no. I am very engaged in the many > things > I find fascinating. I never waste a minute. It can be > software architecture, art, talking with people, > writing, listening to classical music, reading, > mathematics, etc. I don't take it seriously, though. > It is child-like. It is just being. > > But I do all that from a background of profound > silence. There is a deep peace that runs through it > all. > > And when I feel to just stop and soak in the silence > I do so. > > So what is different I wonder, in what you describe > and in what I describe? > > You speak of the " sense of 'me' " evaporating for > just a moment. Perhaps that is the difference. > > So point one: having fun and doing a lot of fun stuff > is completely possible without a " sense of me " . > Actually > it gets much better. Creativity greatly expands > without > all that baggage. > > Point two: are you curious about that sense of me > thing? > What is the crux of that? > > It seems to me that we start experiencing " little > bubbles > of nirvana " here and there, such as you describe. > > It's not an all-at-once thing. > > As I see it Deep Sleep is nirvana, and eventually the > craziness that is consciousness gets assimilated into > it so that eventually in consciousness we are in the > same deep trance that we are in Deep Sleep. > > > Bill > > What would happen to a blind man if he was suddenly > struck by light again? He`ll definitely go blind. > So...patience..don`t ask for more than you can handle. > And if you fall 7 times, get up an eigth.. > Recognize those bubbles of clarity, cherish them, > fully delight in the moment of truth, those are > precious vitamins for when the floor board creaks and > the wind hallows.. > Courage my friend, life is the best teacher, and you > seem fully engaged in it. > Patricia *********** Yes. Greatfulness for the moments of delight. Many moments to cherish my friend. And when the " floor board creaks " , well, so be it. C'est la vie et ce n'est pas epouvantable. Au contraire, c'est acceptable totalement! Je vous suet la paix pure and de l'amour joyeux. Mais je le sais que vous l'avez dejas. :-) " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- 1069 wrote: > > > First I want to say that nothing beats good, solid > > honesty like in what you've written here. Thank you! > > ********** > Nah. It was all nothing but lies. (Kidding.) > ********** > > > Regarding your question (Or don't I???) I can say > > most assuredly no. I am very engaged in the many things > > I find fascinating. I never waste a minute. It can be > > software architecture, art, talking with people, > > writing, listening to classical music, reading, > > mathematics, etc. I don't take it seriously, though. > > It is child-like. It is just being. > > > > But I do all that from a background of profound > > silence. There is a deep peace that runs through it > > all. > > ********** > I get that when I colour in my kid's colouring books. And I > purposely go outside the lines just to feel like a kid again. > ********** > > > > > And when I feel to just stop and soak in the silence > > I do so. > > > > So what is different I wonder, in what you describe > > and in what I describe? > > > > You speak of the " sense of 'me' " evaporating for > > just a moment. Perhaps that is the difference. > > > > So point one: having fun and doing a lot of fun stuff > > is completely possible without a " sense of me " . Actually > > it gets much better. Creativity greatly expands without > > all that baggage. > > *********** > Actually, yes. I can relate to what you're saying here because I do > my best creative work in music when I'm not there, so to speak. I'm > *in* the music.... Hey! That reminds me of what Niz said about the > painter is in the picture. The musician is in the music!! Or when > I'm dancing with my girlfriend...I get my groove on! Shake my > booty! I get lost in it all, you know? I'm like Baloo the Bear > in 'The Jungle Book' story when he's feeling the beat of King Louis' > groovy tribal rythms. Man, I can hear the beat now...yeah > baby...aah! I'm gone. Woohoo! James Brown gone. That kinda' > thing. > *********** > > > > > Point two: are you curious about that sense of me thing? > > What is the crux of that? > > ********* > I am! I am curious! Like the little monkey named George. I'm > curiouser than a cat on nip, man! What's up with the sense of 'me' > coming and going, like hearing my favourite song on the radio > whenever it should play? 'I' appear when the exstacy of Life > appears and disappear when It disappears. How cum that feeling > of 'orgasm' cums and uncums? Why can't the 'not-I' just cum > forever? It's funny but when the 'I' returns it feels really good > inside, all warm and fuzzy and totally at peace. Different than the > actual exstacy of present experience because of its remeniscent > state. 'I' enjoy just being with the memory of the joy of Life and > love the feeling of anticipation of MORE OF IT!!! I'm high on Life, > in general...until I find myself thinking too much about the dark > side of Life, like the ignorance and lack of Understanding and > loving-kindness and compassion we have for each other and for our > Mother Earth. I can't watch the news anymore...too depressing. > ********** > > > > > It seems to me that we start experiencing " little bubbles > > of nirvana " here and there, such as you describe. > > ********** > These " little bubbles of nirvana " sometimes explode upon the scene > and sometimes they just seem to float their way into it. It depends > on the situation (??) > ********** Sure. Just a metaphor, anyway. But like a pot of chocolate starting to boil, they get to be more and more. > > > > > It's not an all-at-once thing. > > > > As I see it Deep Sleep is nirvana, and eventually the > > craziness that is consciousness gets assimilated into > > it so that eventually in consciousness we are in the > > same deep trance that we are in Deep Sleep. > > ********** > You're so right, Bill! Maybe that's why I love drumming on hand > drums so much. The repetitious tribal rythms get me into a trance > state in which 'I' no longer exist as 'me', the everyday 'me' who > works to support a budding family or who has chores to do. In fact, > more and more, even mundane tasks are becoming easier and so much FUN > (!!) I've never enjoyed doing dishes or shovelling snow or sweeping > tiny little rocks off the driveway or doing laundry or going to work > every day as much as do now. Life is an awesome experience in ALL > its aspects, ups and downs and all arounds. I'm so greatfully > dead!! Just to BE...ALIVE.... Strangely, even physical pain is > becoming enjoyable for me in the sense that 'I' can go into it > deeply without getting attached, if you catch my drift. > > :-) > > " Silver " > *********** > if you catch my drift. I certainly do! And you are clearly a very kinesthetic individual. So *activity* is a natural way of *being*. > I'm high on Life, > in general...until I find myself thinking too much about the dark > side of Life, like the ignorance and lack of Understanding and > loving-kindness and compassion we have for each other and for our > Mother Earth. I can't watch the news anymore...too depressing. > ********** The dark side (or should I say Dark Side?)... maybe you are a bit afraid of that? maybe you lose a bit of your congo-rhythm when you sense that? I don't sense that anymore, but I had to let myself dance with it to find my way beyond it. I couldn't suppress it... because to me that was not truth. So I looked it straight in the eye. And I danced with it, but all the while being alert. All those baddies are paper tigers, and they are not Out There! my view. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > 1069@> wrote: > > > > > First I want to say that nothing beats good, solid > > > honesty like in what you've written here. Thank you! > > > > ********** > > Nah. It was all nothing but lies. (Kidding.) > > ********** > > > > > Regarding your question (Or don't I???) I can say > > > most assuredly no. I am very engaged in the many things > > > I find fascinating. I never waste a minute. It can be > > > software architecture, art, talking with people, > > > writing, listening to classical music, reading, > > > mathematics, etc. I don't take it seriously, though. > > > It is child-like. It is just being. > > > > > > But I do all that from a background of profound > > > silence. There is a deep peace that runs through it > > > all. > > > > ********** > > I get that when I colour in my kid's colouring books. And I > > purposely go outside the lines just to feel like a kid again. > > ********** > > > > > > > > And when I feel to just stop and soak in the silence > > > I do so. > > > > > > So what is different I wonder, in what you describe > > > and in what I describe? > > > > > > You speak of the " sense of 'me' " evaporating for > > > just a moment. Perhaps that is the difference. > > > > > > So point one: having fun and doing a lot of fun stuff > > > is completely possible without a " sense of me " . Actually > > > it gets much better. Creativity greatly expands without > > > all that baggage. > > > > *********** > > Actually, yes. I can relate to what you're saying here because I > do > > my best creative work in music when I'm not there, so to speak. > I'm > > *in* the music.... Hey! That reminds me of what Niz said about > the > > painter is in the picture. The musician is in the music!! Or when > > I'm dancing with my girlfriend...I get my groove on! Shake my > > booty! I get lost in it all, you know? I'm like Baloo the Bear > > in 'The Jungle Book' story when he's feeling the beat of King > Louis' > > groovy tribal rythms. Man, I can hear the beat now...yeah > > baby...aah! I'm gone. Woohoo! James Brown gone. That kinda' > > thing. > > *********** > > > > > > > > Point two: are you curious about that sense of me thing? > > > What is the crux of that? > > > > ********* > > I am! I am curious! Like the little monkey named George. I'm > > curiouser than a cat on nip, man! What's up with the sense of 'me' > > coming and going, like hearing my favourite song on the radio > > whenever it should play? 'I' appear when the exstacy of Life > > appears and disappear when It disappears. How cum that feeling > > of 'orgasm' cums and uncums? Why can't the 'not-I' just cum > > forever? It's funny but when the 'I' returns it feels really good > > inside, all warm and fuzzy and totally at peace. Different than > the > > actual exstacy of present experience because of its remeniscent > > state. 'I' enjoy just being with the memory of the joy of Life and > > love the feeling of anticipation of MORE OF IT!!! I'm high on > Life, > > in general...until I find myself thinking too much about the dark > > side of Life, like the ignorance and lack of Understanding and > > loving-kindness and compassion we have for each other and for our > > Mother Earth. I can't watch the news anymore...too depressing. > > ********** > > > > > > > > It seems to me that we start experiencing " little bubbles > > > of nirvana " here and there, such as you describe. > > > > ********** > > These " little bubbles of nirvana " sometimes explode upon the scene > > and sometimes they just seem to float their way into it. It > depends > > on the situation (??) > > ********** > > Sure. Just a metaphor, anyway. > But like a pot of chocolate starting to boil, > they get to be more and more. > > > > > > > > > It's not an all-at-once thing. > > > > > > As I see it Deep Sleep is nirvana, and eventually the > > > craziness that is consciousness gets assimilated into > > > it so that eventually in consciousness we are in the > > > same deep trance that we are in Deep Sleep. > > > > ********** > > You're so right, Bill! Maybe that's why I love drumming on hand > > drums so much. The repetitious tribal rythms get me into a trance > > state in which 'I' no longer exist as 'me', the everyday 'me' who > > works to support a budding family or who has chores to do. In > fact, > > more and more, even mundane tasks are becoming easier and so much > FUN > > (!!) I've never enjoyed doing dishes or shovelling snow or > sweeping > > tiny little rocks off the driveway or doing laundry or going to > work > > every day as much as do now. Life is an awesome experience in ALL > > its aspects, ups and downs and all arounds. I'm so greatfully > > dead!! Just to BE...ALIVE.... Strangely, even physical pain is > > becoming enjoyable for me in the sense that 'I' can go into it > > deeply without getting attached, if you catch my drift. > > > > :-) > > > > " Silver " > > *********** > > > if you catch my drift. > > I certainly do! > > And you are clearly a very kinesthetic individual. > So *activity* is a natural way of *being*. > > > I'm high on Life, > > in general...until I find myself thinking too much about the dark > > side of Life, like the ignorance and lack of Understanding and > > loving-kindness and compassion we have for each other and for our > > Mother Earth. I can't watch the news anymore...too depressing. > > ********** > > The dark side (or should I say Dark Side?)... > > maybe you are a bit afraid of that? > > maybe you lose a bit of your congo-rhythm when > you sense that? > > I don't sense that anymore, but I had to let myself > dance with it to find my way beyond it. > I couldn't suppress it... because to me that was > not truth. > > So I looked it straight in the eye. > And I danced with it, but all the while > being alert. > > All those baddies are paper tigers, > and they are not Out There! > > my view. > > > Bill > This is a very cool dialogue guys. Lots of good thoughts and feelings and music music music......all loves of mine. ........bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- 1069 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT the only real question... > > > > > > > > but will say this: > > > > feelings that are as " one's own " can seem to > > utterly disappear. > > > > does that mean never to appear again? > > > > that is uncertain... > > > > > > > > similarly for emotions and " mental pain " ... > > > > > > > > at some point the realization comes that the > > " sense of 'me' " > > > > is no more, and with it has gone the many > > baggages... > > > > the emotions, the personal feelings, the > > self-doubts, > > > > the uncertainties and senses of confusion... > > > > > > > > " angst " is the ever present shadow of the sense of > > a > > > > " personal self " > > > > > > > > and the sense of a personal self *can* evaporate > > > > > > > > when it is gone there is a clarity > > > > a clarity unpolluted > > > > by any particular > > > > > > > > things can still come up > > > > such as a " feeling of annoyance " as mentioned > > earlier > > > > > > > > if attention is very clear and open to that which > > > > arises, again it evaporates > > > > > > > > and so on, again and again > > > > > > > > and this is something that anyone can " practice " > > > > whatever *arises* > > > > complete attention to what arises > > > > > > > > one need not attain some " state " first > > > > the only practice > > > > is attention to whatever arises > > > > > > > > and then at times, perhaps only occasionally, > > > > *nothing* arises > > > > > > > > and then, as attention to whatever arises > > persists, > > > > " arisings " become ever more rare > > > > > > > > and *nothing* arising ever more common > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > ********* > > > > > Thanks Bill. I get small glimpses or tastes of this > > state now and > > then. But it doesn't happen by itself spontaneously. > > It only > > occurs if I sit back and make the effort to go like, > > " Okay. Now > > Robby, you're taking life way too seriously right now > > and that's why > > you're feeling *angst*. Is the matter really all that > > important? > > Eventually you're going to die and nothing like this > > will have meant > > anything, so CHILL OUT! " And after this type of > > self-talk, I repeat > > to myself the words of Nizargadatta, " I am not this or > > that > > (_________fill in the blank) and sometimes I get the > > sensation of > > peace from this. It's a good state to be in; it just > > seems to take > > alot of work to get there and I can't seem to stay > > there because I > > get so caught up in my daily activities. I love life > > and all its > > ups and downs and immerse myself fully in it but BOY! > > now and then I > > need a break from it, you know what I mean? So thanks > > for > > expressing for me what it is that I think happens to > > me when I'm > > just aware that the sense of 'me' is evaporated for a > > bit of time. > > I wish it would stay gone but I need it to engage in > > the game of > > Life at the moment. Or don't I??? > > > > " Silver " > > > > ~~~~~~ > > > > First I want to say that nothing beats good, solid > > honesty like in what you've written here. Thank you! > > > > Regarding your question (Or don't I???) I can say > > most assuredly no. I am very engaged in the many > > things > > I find fascinating. I never waste a minute. It can be > > software architecture, art, talking with people, > > writing, listening to classical music, reading, > > mathematics, etc. I don't take it seriously, though. > > It is child-like. It is just being. > > > > But I do all that from a background of profound > > silence. There is a deep peace that runs through it > > all. > > > > And when I feel to just stop and soak in the silence > > I do so. > > > > So what is different I wonder, in what you describe > > and in what I describe? > > > > You speak of the " sense of 'me' " evaporating for > > just a moment. Perhaps that is the difference. > > > > So point one: having fun and doing a lot of fun stuff > > is completely possible without a " sense of me " . > > Actually > > it gets much better. Creativity greatly expands > > without > > all that baggage. > > > > Point two: are you curious about that sense of me > > thing? > > What is the crux of that? > > > > It seems to me that we start experiencing " little > > bubbles > > of nirvana " here and there, such as you describe. > > > > It's not an all-at-once thing. > > > > As I see it Deep Sleep is nirvana, and eventually the > > craziness that is consciousness gets assimilated into > > it so that eventually in consciousness we are in the > > same deep trance that we are in Deep Sleep. > > > > > > Bill > > > > What would happen to a blind man if he was suddenly > > struck by light again? He`ll definitely go blind. > > So...patience..don`t ask for more than you can handle. > > And if you fall 7 times, get up an eigth.. > > Recognize those bubbles of clarity, cherish them, > > fully delight in the moment of truth, those are > > precious vitamins for when the floor board creaks and > > the wind hallows.. > > Courage my friend, life is the best teacher, and you > > seem fully engaged in it. > > Patricia > > *********** > > Yes. Greatfulness for the moments of delight. Many moments to > cherish my friend. And when the " floor board creaks " , well, so be > it. C'est la vie et ce n'est pas epouvantable. Au contraire, c'est > acceptable totalement! Je vous suet la paix pure and de l'amour > joyeux. Mais je le sais que vous l'avez dejas. > > :-) > > " Silver " ( " C'est la vie et ce n'est pas epouvantable. Au contraire, c'est > acceptable totalement! " ) > C'est vrai..c'est tres vrai .......robere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 > And you are clearly a very kinesthetic individual. > So *activity* is a natural way of *being*. *********** What's kinesthetic?? Doing stuff? Isn't just *being* an *activity*? To Be is a verb and I thought a verb is active or implies activity in some way. Even doing nothing is still doing something in my view. (??) *********** > > > I'm high on Life, > > in general...until I find myself thinking too much about the dark > > side of Life, like the ignorance and lack of Understanding and > > loving-kindness and compassion we have for each other and for our > > Mother Earth. I can't watch the news anymore...too depressing. > > ********** > > The dark side (or should I say Dark Side?)... > > maybe you are a bit afraid of that? > > maybe you lose a bit of your congo-rhythm when > you sense that? > > I don't sense that anymore, but I had to let myself > dance with it to find my way beyond it. > I couldn't suppress it... because to me that was > not truth. > > So I looked it straight in the eye. > And I danced with it, but all the while > being alert. > > All those baddies are paper tigers, > and they are not Out There! > > my view. *********** Yeah, I can respect that. I guess I just shy away from whatever depresses me so that's why I don't feel I should bother wasting my time a=on all the negative stuff I see in the world around me. But you're right. paper Tigers. True, true true... " Silver " *************** > > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > > 1069@> wrote: > > > > > > > First I want to say that nothing beats good, solid > > > > honesty like in what you've written here. Thank you! > > > > > > ********** > > > Nah. It was all nothing but lies. (Kidding.) > > > ********** > > > > > > > Regarding your question (Or don't I???) I can say > > > > most assuredly no. I am very engaged in the many things > > > > I find fascinating. I never waste a minute. It can be > > > > software architecture, art, talking with people, > > > > writing, listening to classical music, reading, > > > > mathematics, etc. I don't take it seriously, though. > > > > It is child-like. It is just being. > > > > > > > > But I do all that from a background of profound > > > > silence. There is a deep peace that runs through it > > > > all. > > > > > > ********** > > > I get that when I colour in my kid's colouring books. And I > > > purposely go outside the lines just to feel like a kid again. > > > ********** > > > > > > > > > > > And when I feel to just stop and soak in the silence > > > > I do so. > > > > > > > > So what is different I wonder, in what you describe > > > > and in what I describe? > > > > > > > > You speak of the " sense of 'me' " evaporating for > > > > just a moment. Perhaps that is the difference. > > > > > > > > So point one: having fun and doing a lot of fun stuff > > > > is completely possible without a " sense of me " . Actually > > > > it gets much better. Creativity greatly expands without > > > > all that baggage. > > > > > > *********** > > > Actually, yes. I can relate to what you're saying here because I > > do > > > my best creative work in music when I'm not there, so to speak. > > I'm > > > *in* the music.... Hey! That reminds me of what Niz said about > > the > > > painter is in the picture. The musician is in the music!! Or > when > > > I'm dancing with my girlfriend...I get my groove on! Shake my > > > booty! I get lost in it all, you know? I'm like Baloo the Bear > > > in 'The Jungle Book' story when he's feeling the beat of King > > Louis' > > > groovy tribal rythms. Man, I can hear the beat now...yeah > > > baby...aah! I'm gone. Woohoo! James Brown gone. That kinda' > > > thing. > > > *********** > > > > > > > > > > > Point two: are you curious about that sense of me thing? > > > > What is the crux of that? > > > > > > ********* > > > I am! I am curious! Like the little monkey named George. I'm > > > curiouser than a cat on nip, man! What's up with the sense > of 'me' > > > coming and going, like hearing my favourite song on the radio > > > whenever it should play? 'I' appear when the exstacy of Life > > > appears and disappear when It disappears. How cum that feeling > > > of 'orgasm' cums and uncums? Why can't the 'not-I' just cum > > > forever? It's funny but when the 'I' returns it feels really > good > > > inside, all warm and fuzzy and totally at peace. Different than > > the > > > actual exstacy of present experience because of its remeniscent > > > state. 'I' enjoy just being with the memory of the joy of Life > and > > > love the feeling of anticipation of MORE OF IT!!! I'm high on > > Life, > > > in general...until I find myself thinking too much about the dark > > > side of Life, like the ignorance and lack of Understanding and > > > loving-kindness and compassion we have for each other and for our > > > Mother Earth. I can't watch the news anymore...too depressing. > > > ********** > > > > > > > > > > > It seems to me that we start experiencing " little bubbles > > > > of nirvana " here and there, such as you describe. > > > > > > ********** > > > These " little bubbles of nirvana " sometimes explode upon the > scene > > > and sometimes they just seem to float their way into it. It > > depends > > > on the situation (??) > > > ********** > > > > Sure. Just a metaphor, anyway. > > But like a pot of chocolate starting to boil, > > they get to be more and more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not an all-at-once thing. > > > > > > > > As I see it Deep Sleep is nirvana, and eventually the > > > > craziness that is consciousness gets assimilated into > > > > it so that eventually in consciousness we are in the > > > > same deep trance that we are in Deep Sleep. > > > > > > ********** > > > You're so right, Bill! Maybe that's why I love drumming on hand > > > drums so much. The repetitious tribal rythms get me into a > trance > > > state in which 'I' no longer exist as 'me', the everyday 'me' who > > > works to support a budding family or who has chores to do. In > > fact, > > > more and more, even mundane tasks are becoming easier and so much > > FUN > > > (!!) I've never enjoyed doing dishes or shovelling snow or > > sweeping > > > tiny little rocks off the driveway or doing laundry or going to > > work > > > every day as much as do now. Life is an awesome experience in > ALL > > > its aspects, ups and downs and all arounds. I'm so greatfully > > > dead!! Just to BE...ALIVE.... Strangely, even physical pain is > > > becoming enjoyable for me in the sense that 'I' can go into it > > > deeply without getting attached, if you catch my drift. > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > " Silver " > > > *********** > > > > > if you catch my drift. > > > > I certainly do! > > > > And you are clearly a very kinesthetic individual. > > So *activity* is a natural way of *being*. > > > > > I'm high on Life, > > > in general...until I find myself thinking too much about the dark > > > side of Life, like the ignorance and lack of Understanding and > > > loving-kindness and compassion we have for each other and for our > > > Mother Earth. I can't watch the news anymore...too depressing. > > > ********** > > > > The dark side (or should I say Dark Side?)... > > > > maybe you are a bit afraid of that? > > > > maybe you lose a bit of your congo-rhythm when > > you sense that? > > > > I don't sense that anymore, but I had to let myself > > dance with it to find my way beyond it. > > I couldn't suppress it... because to me that was > > not truth. > > > > So I looked it straight in the eye. > > And I danced with it, but all the while > > being alert. > > > > All those baddies are paper tigers, > > and they are not Out There! > > > > my view. > > > > > > Bill > > > This is a very cool dialogue guys. Lots of good thoughts and > feelings and music music music......all loves of mine. > ........bob ********** Of course they are! It's in our blood. ;-) " Silver " > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > 1069@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT the only real question... > > > > > > > > > > but will say this: > > > > > feelings that are as " one's own " can seem to > > > utterly disappear. > > > > > does that mean never to appear again? > > > > > that is uncertain... > > > > > > > > > > similarly for emotions and " mental pain " ... > > > > > > > > > > at some point the realization comes that the > > > " sense of 'me' " > > > > > is no more, and with it has gone the many > > > baggages... > > > > > the emotions, the personal feelings, the > > > self-doubts, > > > > > the uncertainties and senses of confusion... > > > > > > > > > > " angst " is the ever present shadow of the sense of > > > a > > > > > " personal self " > > > > > > > > > > and the sense of a personal self *can* evaporate > > > > > > > > > > when it is gone there is a clarity > > > > > a clarity unpolluted > > > > > by any particular > > > > > > > > > > things can still come up > > > > > such as a " feeling of annoyance " as mentioned > > > earlier > > > > > > > > > > if attention is very clear and open to that which > > > > > arises, again it evaporates > > > > > > > > > > and so on, again and again > > > > > > > > > > and this is something that anyone can " practice " > > > > > whatever *arises* > > > > > complete attention to what arises > > > > > > > > > > one need not attain some " state " first > > > > > the only practice > > > > > is attention to whatever arises > > > > > > > > > > and then at times, perhaps only occasionally, > > > > > *nothing* arises > > > > > > > > > > and then, as attention to whatever arises > > > persists, > > > > > " arisings " become ever more rare > > > > > > > > > > and *nothing* arising ever more common > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > ********* > > > > > > > Thanks Bill. I get small glimpses or tastes of this > > > state now and > > > then. But it doesn't happen by itself spontaneously. > > > It only > > > occurs if I sit back and make the effort to go like, > > > " Okay. Now > > > Robby, you're taking life way too seriously right now > > > and that's why > > > you're feeling *angst*. Is the matter really all that > > > important? > > > Eventually you're going to die and nothing like this > > > will have meant > > > anything, so CHILL OUT! " And after this type of > > > self-talk, I repeat > > > to myself the words of Nizargadatta, " I am not this or > > > that > > > (_________fill in the blank) and sometimes I get the > > > sensation of > > > peace from this. It's a good state to be in; it just > > > seems to take > > > alot of work to get there and I can't seem to stay > > > there because I > > > get so caught up in my daily activities. I love life > > > and all its > > > ups and downs and immerse myself fully in it but BOY! > > > now and then I > > > need a break from it, you know what I mean? So thanks > > > for > > > expressing for me what it is that I think happens to > > > me when I'm > > > just aware that the sense of 'me' is evaporated for a > > > bit of time. > > > I wish it would stay gone but I need it to engage in > > > the game of > > > Life at the moment. Or don't I??? > > > > > > " Silver " > > > > > > ~~~~~~ > > > > > > First I want to say that nothing beats good, solid > > > honesty like in what you've written here. Thank you! > > > > > > Regarding your question (Or don't I???) I can say > > > most assuredly no. I am very engaged in the many > > > things > > > I find fascinating. I never waste a minute. It can be > > > software architecture, art, talking with people, > > > writing, listening to classical music, reading, > > > mathematics, etc. I don't take it seriously, though. > > > It is child-like. It is just being. > > > > > > But I do all that from a background of profound > > > silence. There is a deep peace that runs through it > > > all. > > > > > > And when I feel to just stop and soak in the silence > > > I do so. > > > > > > So what is different I wonder, in what you describe > > > and in what I describe? > > > > > > You speak of the " sense of 'me' " evaporating for > > > just a moment. Perhaps that is the difference. > > > > > > So point one: having fun and doing a lot of fun stuff > > > is completely possible without a " sense of me " . > > > Actually > > > it gets much better. Creativity greatly expands > > > without > > > all that baggage. > > > > > > Point two: are you curious about that sense of me > > > thing? > > > What is the crux of that? > > > > > > It seems to me that we start experiencing " little > > > bubbles > > > of nirvana " here and there, such as you describe. > > > > > > It's not an all-at-once thing. > > > > > > As I see it Deep Sleep is nirvana, and eventually the > > > craziness that is consciousness gets assimilated into > > > it so that eventually in consciousness we are in the > > > same deep trance that we are in Deep Sleep. > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > What would happen to a blind man if he was suddenly > > > struck by light again? He`ll definitely go blind. > > > So...patience..don`t ask for more than you can handle. > > > And if you fall 7 times, get up an eigth.. > > > Recognize those bubbles of clarity, cherish them, > > > fully delight in the moment of truth, those are > > > precious vitamins for when the floor board creaks and > > > the wind hallows.. > > > Courage my friend, life is the best teacher, and you > > > seem fully engaged in it. > > > Patricia > > > > *********** > > > > Yes. Greatfulness for the moments of delight. Many moments to > > cherish my friend. And when the " floor board creaks " , well, so be > > it. C'est la vie et ce n'est pas epouvantable. Au contraire, > c'est > > acceptable totalement! Je vous suet la paix pure and de l'amour > > joyeux. Mais je le sais que vous l'avez dejas. > > > > :-) > > > > " Silver " > > ( " C'est la vie et ce n'est pas epouvantable. Au contraire, > c'est > > acceptable totalement! " ) > > > C'est vrai..c'est tres vrai > .......robere ********* Oui et oui!!! ********* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- 1069 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > > > 1069@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > First I want to say that nothing beats good, solid > > > > > honesty like in what you've written here. Thank you! > > > > > > > > ********** > > > > Nah. It was all nothing but lies. (Kidding.) > > > > ********** > > > > > > > > > Regarding your question (Or don't I???) I can say > > > > > most assuredly no. I am very engaged in the many things > > > > > I find fascinating. I never waste a minute. It can be > > > > > software architecture, art, talking with people, > > > > > writing, listening to classical music, reading, > > > > > mathematics, etc. I don't take it seriously, though. > > > > > It is child-like. It is just being. > > > > > > > > > > But I do all that from a background of profound > > > > > silence. There is a deep peace that runs through it > > > > > all. > > > > > > > > ********** > > > > I get that when I colour in my kid's colouring books. And I > > > > purposely go outside the lines just to feel like a kid again. > > > > ********** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And when I feel to just stop and soak in the silence > > > > > I do so. > > > > > > > > > > So what is different I wonder, in what you describe > > > > > and in what I describe? > > > > > > > > > > You speak of the " sense of 'me' " evaporating for > > > > > just a moment. Perhaps that is the difference. > > > > > > > > > > So point one: having fun and doing a lot of fun stuff > > > > > is completely possible without a " sense of me " . Actually > > > > > it gets much better. Creativity greatly expands without > > > > > all that baggage. > > > > > > > > *********** > > > > Actually, yes. I can relate to what you're saying here > because I > > > do > > > > my best creative work in music when I'm not there, so to > speak. > > > I'm > > > > *in* the music.... Hey! That reminds me of what Niz said > about > > > the > > > > painter is in the picture. The musician is in the music!! Or > > when > > > > I'm dancing with my girlfriend...I get my groove on! Shake my > > > > booty! I get lost in it all, you know? I'm like Baloo the > Bear > > > > in 'The Jungle Book' story when he's feeling the beat of King > > > Louis' > > > > groovy tribal rythms. Man, I can hear the beat now...yeah > > > > baby...aah! I'm gone. Woohoo! James Brown gone. That > kinda' > > > > thing. > > > > *********** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point two: are you curious about that sense of me thing? > > > > > What is the crux of that? > > > > > > > > ********* > > > > I am! I am curious! Like the little monkey named George. > I'm > > > > curiouser than a cat on nip, man! What's up with the sense > > of 'me' > > > > coming and going, like hearing my favourite song on the radio > > > > whenever it should play? 'I' appear when the exstacy of Life > > > > appears and disappear when It disappears. How cum that > feeling > > > > of 'orgasm' cums and uncums? Why can't the 'not-I' just cum > > > > forever? It's funny but when the 'I' returns it feels really > > good > > > > inside, all warm and fuzzy and totally at peace. Different > than > > > the > > > > actual exstacy of present experience because of its > remeniscent > > > > state. 'I' enjoy just being with the memory of the joy of > Life > > and > > > > love the feeling of anticipation of MORE OF IT!!! I'm high on > > > Life, > > > > in general...until I find myself thinking too much about the > dark > > > > side of Life, like the ignorance and lack of Understanding and > > > > loving-kindness and compassion we have for each other and for > our > > > > Mother Earth. I can't watch the news anymore...too depressing. > > > > ********** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems to me that we start experiencing " little bubbles > > > > > of nirvana " here and there, such as you describe. > > > > > > > > ********** > > > > These " little bubbles of nirvana " sometimes explode upon the > > scene > > > > and sometimes they just seem to float their way into it. It > > > depends > > > > on the situation (??) > > > > ********** > > > > > > Sure. Just a metaphor, anyway. > > > But like a pot of chocolate starting to boil, > > > they get to be more and more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not an all-at-once thing. > > > > > > > > > > As I see it Deep Sleep is nirvana, and eventually the > > > > > craziness that is consciousness gets assimilated into > > > > > it so that eventually in consciousness we are in the > > > > > same deep trance that we are in Deep Sleep. > > > > > > > > ********** > > > > You're so right, Bill! Maybe that's why I love drumming on > hand > > > > drums so much. The repetitious tribal rythms get me into a > > trance > > > > state in which 'I' no longer exist as 'me', the everyday 'me' > who > > > > works to support a budding family or who has chores to do. In > > > fact, > > > > more and more, even mundane tasks are becoming easier and so > much > > > FUN > > > > (!!) I've never enjoyed doing dishes or shovelling snow or > > > sweeping > > > > tiny little rocks off the driveway or doing laundry or going > to > > > work > > > > every day as much as do now. Life is an awesome experience in > > ALL > > > > its aspects, ups and downs and all arounds. I'm so greatfully > > > > dead!! Just to BE...ALIVE.... Strangely, even physical pain > is > > > > becoming enjoyable for me in the sense that 'I' can go into it > > > > deeply without getting attached, if you catch my drift. > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > " Silver " > > > > *********** > > > > > > > if you catch my drift. > > > > > > I certainly do! > > > > > > And you are clearly a very kinesthetic individual. > > > So *activity* is a natural way of *being*. > > > > > > > I'm high on Life, > > > > in general...until I find myself thinking too much about the > dark > > > > side of Life, like the ignorance and lack of Understanding and > > > > loving-kindness and compassion we have for each other and for > our > > > > Mother Earth. I can't watch the news anymore...too depressing. > > > > ********** > > > > > > The dark side (or should I say Dark Side?)... > > > > > > maybe you are a bit afraid of that? > > > > > > maybe you lose a bit of your congo-rhythm when > > > you sense that? > > > > > > I don't sense that anymore, but I had to let myself > > > dance with it to find my way beyond it. > > > I couldn't suppress it... because to me that was > > > not truth. > > > > > > So I looked it straight in the eye. > > > And I danced with it, but all the while > > > being alert. > > > > > > All those baddies are paper tigers, > > > and they are not Out There! > > > > > > my view. > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > This is a very cool dialogue guys. Lots of good thoughts and > > feelings and music music music......all loves of mine. > > ........bob > > ********** > > Of course they are! It's in our blood. > > ;-) > > " Silver " > > > And in our soul! (now that's a soulful message.LOL) ....bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- 1069 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > > 1069@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT the only real question... > > > > > > > > > > > > but will say this: > > > > > > feelings that are as " one's own " can seem to > > > > utterly disappear. > > > > > > does that mean never to appear again? > > > > > > that is uncertain... > > > > > > > > > > > > similarly for emotions and " mental pain " ... > > > > > > > > > > > > at some point the realization comes that the > > > > " sense of 'me' " > > > > > > is no more, and with it has gone the many > > > > baggages... > > > > > > the emotions, the personal feelings, the > > > > self-doubts, > > > > > > the uncertainties and senses of confusion... > > > > > > > > > > > > " angst " is the ever present shadow of the sense of > > > > a > > > > > > " personal self " > > > > > > > > > > > > and the sense of a personal self *can* evaporate > > > > > > > > > > > > when it is gone there is a clarity > > > > > > a clarity unpolluted > > > > > > by any particular > > > > > > > > > > > > things can still come up > > > > > > such as a " feeling of annoyance " as mentioned > > > > earlier > > > > > > > > > > > > if attention is very clear and open to that which > > > > > > arises, again it evaporates > > > > > > > > > > > > and so on, again and again > > > > > > > > > > > > and this is something that anyone can " practice " > > > > > > whatever *arises* > > > > > > complete attention to what arises > > > > > > > > > > > > one need not attain some " state " first > > > > > > the only practice > > > > > > is attention to whatever arises > > > > > > > > > > > > and then at times, perhaps only occasionally, > > > > > > *nothing* arises > > > > > > > > > > > > and then, as attention to whatever arises > > > > persists, > > > > > > " arisings " become ever more rare > > > > > > > > > > > > and *nothing* arising ever more common > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > ********* > > > > > > > > > Thanks Bill. I get small glimpses or tastes of this > > > > state now and > > > > then. But it doesn't happen by itself spontaneously. > > > > It only > > > > occurs if I sit back and make the effort to go like, > > > > " Okay. Now > > > > Robby, you're taking life way too seriously right now > > > > and that's why > > > > you're feeling *angst*. Is the matter really all that > > > > important? > > > > Eventually you're going to die and nothing like this > > > > will have meant > > > > anything, so CHILL OUT! " And after this type of > > > > self-talk, I repeat > > > > to myself the words of Nizargadatta, " I am not this or > > > > that > > > > (_________fill in the blank) and sometimes I get the > > > > sensation of > > > > peace from this. It's a good state to be in; it just > > > > seems to take > > > > alot of work to get there and I can't seem to stay > > > > there because I > > > > get so caught up in my daily activities. I love life > > > > and all its > > > > ups and downs and immerse myself fully in it but BOY! > > > > now and then I > > > > need a break from it, you know what I mean? So thanks > > > > for > > > > expressing for me what it is that I think happens to > > > > me when I'm > > > > just aware that the sense of 'me' is evaporated for a > > > > bit of time. > > > > I wish it would stay gone but I need it to engage in > > > > the game of > > > > Life at the moment. Or don't I??? > > > > > > > > " Silver " > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > First I want to say that nothing beats good, solid > > > > honesty like in what you've written here. Thank you! > > > > > > > > Regarding your question (Or don't I???) I can say > > > > most assuredly no. I am very engaged in the many > > > > things > > > > I find fascinating. I never waste a minute. It can be > > > > software architecture, art, talking with people, > > > > writing, listening to classical music, reading, > > > > mathematics, etc. I don't take it seriously, though. > > > > It is child-like. It is just being. > > > > > > > > But I do all that from a background of profound > > > > silence. There is a deep peace that runs through it > > > > all. > > > > > > > > And when I feel to just stop and soak in the silence > > > > I do so. > > > > > > > > So what is different I wonder, in what you describe > > > > and in what I describe? > > > > > > > > You speak of the " sense of 'me' " evaporating for > > > > just a moment. Perhaps that is the difference. > > > > > > > > So point one: having fun and doing a lot of fun stuff > > > > is completely possible without a " sense of me " . > > > > Actually > > > > it gets much better. Creativity greatly expands > > > > without > > > > all that baggage. > > > > > > > > Point two: are you curious about that sense of me > > > > thing? > > > > What is the crux of that? > > > > > > > > It seems to me that we start experiencing " little > > > > bubbles > > > > of nirvana " here and there, such as you describe. > > > > > > > > It's not an all-at-once thing. > > > > > > > > As I see it Deep Sleep is nirvana, and eventually the > > > > craziness that is consciousness gets assimilated into > > > > it so that eventually in consciousness we are in the > > > > same deep trance that we are in Deep Sleep. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > What would happen to a blind man if he was suddenly > > > > struck by light again? He`ll definitely go blind. > > > > So...patience..don`t ask for more than you can handle. > > > > And if you fall 7 times, get up an eigth.. > > > > Recognize those bubbles of clarity, cherish them, > > > > fully delight in the moment of truth, those are > > > > precious vitamins for when the floor board creaks and > > > > the wind hallows.. > > > > Courage my friend, life is the best teacher, and you > > > > seem fully engaged in it. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > *********** > > > > > > Yes. Greatfulness for the moments of delight. Many moments to > > > cherish my friend. And when the " floor board creaks " , well, so > be > > > it. C'est la vie et ce n'est pas epouvantable. Au contraire, > > c'est > > > acceptable totalement! Je vous suet la paix pure and de l'amour > > > joyeux. Mais je le sais que vous l'avez dejas. > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > " Silver " > > > > ( " C'est la vie et ce n'est pas epouvantable. Au contraire, > > c'est > > > acceptable totalement! " ) > > > > > C'est vrai..c'est tres vrai > > .......robere > ********* > Oui et oui!!! > ********* > mais...laissez les bons temps rouler! ....robere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069 wrote: > > > And you are clearly a very kinesthetic individual. > > So *activity* is a natural way of *being*. > > *********** > What's kinesthetic?? Doing stuff? Isn't just *being* an > *activity*? To Be is a verb and I thought a verb is active or > implies activity in some way. Even doing nothing is still doing > something in my view. (??) > *********** Yes " being " is a verb. I'm not saying kinesthetic is everything, but just as some people are very plugged into their visual sense others are very plugged into their kinesthetic sense. You talk about loving to play drums (kinesthetic), dance (kinesthetic), and so on. " Just being " *can be* quietly sitting. I wouldn't call that an " activity " . I would call that inactivity, especially if the mind is silent. But rather than tangle over words, I could simply rephrase by saying that it seems that you enjoy things involving physical bodily movement. BTW, instead of saying, " You are clearly a very kinesthetic individual, " I would rather say, " It strikes me that...etc. " Bill > > > I'm high on Life, > > > in general...until I find myself thinking too much about the > dark > > > side of Life, like the ignorance and lack of Understanding and > > > loving-kindness and compassion we have for each other and for > our > > > Mother Earth. I can't watch the news anymore...too depressing. > > > ********** > > > > The dark side (or should I say Dark Side?)... > > > > maybe you are a bit afraid of that? > > > > maybe you lose a bit of your congo-rhythm when > > you sense that? > > > > I don't sense that anymore, but I had to let myself > > dance with it to find my way beyond it. > > I couldn't suppress it... because to me that was > > not truth. > > > > So I looked it straight in the eye. > > And I danced with it, but all the while > > being alert. > > > > All those baddies are paper tigers, > > and they are not Out There! > > > > my view. > > *********** > Yeah, I can respect that. I guess I just shy away from whatever > depresses me so that's why I don't feel I should bother wasting my > time a=on all the negative stuff I see in the world around me. But > you're right. paper Tigers. True, true true... > > " Silver " > *************** > > > > > > Bill > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " > <silver-1069@> wrote: > > > > > And you are clearly a very kinesthetic individual. > > > So *activity* is a natural way of *being*. > > > > *********** > > What's kinesthetic?? Doing stuff? Isn't just *being* an > > *activity*? To Be is a verb and I thought a verb is active or > > implies activity in some way. Even doing nothing is still doing > > something in my view. (??) > > *********** > > Yes " being " is a verb. > I'm not saying kinesthetic is everything, but just as > some people are very plugged into their visual sense > others are very plugged into their kinesthetic sense. > You talk about loving to play drums (kinesthetic), > dance (kinesthetic), and so on. > > " Just being " *can be* quietly sitting. I wouldn't call > that an " activity " . I would call that inactivity, especially > if the mind is silent. > > But rather than tangle over words, I could simply > rephrase by saying that it seems that you enjoy > things involving physical bodily movement. > > BTW, instead of saying, " You are clearly a very kinesthetic > individual, " I would rather say, " It strikes me that...etc. " > > > Bill *************** Kewl beans, bro. Thanks! :-) " Silver " **************** > > > > > > > > I'm high on Life, > > > > in general...until I find myself thinking too much about the > > dark > > > > side of Life, like the ignorance and lack of Understanding and > > > > loving-kindness and compassion we have for each other and for > > our > > > > Mother Earth. I can't watch the news anymore...too depressing. > > > > ********** > > > > > > The dark side (or should I say Dark Side?)... > > > > > > maybe you are a bit afraid of that? > > > > > > maybe you lose a bit of your congo-rhythm when > > > you sense that? > > > > > > I don't sense that anymore, but I had to let myself > > > dance with it to find my way beyond it. > > > I couldn't suppress it... because to me that was > > > not truth. > > > > > > So I looked it straight in the eye. > > > And I danced with it, but all the while > > > being alert. > > > > > > All those baddies are paper tigers, > > > and they are not Out There! > > > > > > my view. > > > > *********** > > Yeah, I can respect that. I guess I just shy away from whatever > > depresses me so that's why I don't feel I should bother wasting my > > time a=on all the negative stuff I see in the world around me. But > > you're right. paper Tigers. True, true true... > > > > " Silver " > > *************** > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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