Life is odder than odd sometimes with newer posted article

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@>

wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > Surgeons Remove Two Fetuses From Infant

> > > By PAUL GARWOOD, AP ONLINE

> > >

> > > ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - Surgeons operated on a 2-month-old

> > > Pakistani girl Tuesday to remove two fetuses that had grown

> inside

> > > her while she was still in her mother's womb, a doctor said.

> >

> >

> > Thousands of Christians are demonstrating against this cruel

> surgery.

> > Abortion is against God´s will, no human should ever destroy what

> God

> > has created ;-)

> >

> > Len

> >

> Hi Len...I'm not sure where I stand on the abortion issue in toto.

I

> don't believe in either the surgical nor increasingly popular

> pharmeceutical methods that are undertaken for frivolous purposes

> like just not wanting to have a baby because it's inconvenient or

any

> other trite reason.With regards to incest, rape, or extenuating

> circumstances with regard to the viability of the fetus or the

> question of the mother's health in carrying to term, I'm not so

sure

> or dogmatic in my thoughts and opinions. But that's me and I can

> understand anyone holding polar opposite views on this incredibly

> highly sensitive matter. However under the circumstances of the

> article under consideration here and the fact that the fetuses were

> non viable SIBLINGS of the infant..frankly I can't see your point

of

> view. Having said that, I would like to post an article regarding

> Christians using the Holy Book itself in their defence of the

> Opposite side namely: Right of Choice. Please go back and give the

> original article re the infant in Pakistan a re read and see if you

> don't change your mind on at least that particular case.

> Thank you for making me think on my position re this.

> ...bob

>

Political Memo

The Abortion-Rights Side Invokes God, Too

E-MailPrint Save By NEELA BANERJEE

Published: April 3, 2006

In any given week, if you walked into one of Washington's big

corporate hotels early in the morning, you would find a community of

the faithful, quite often conservative Christians, rallying the

troops, offering solace and denouncing the opposition at a prayer

breakfast.

 

So you might be forgiven for thinking that such a group was in

attendance on Friday in a ballroom of the Washington Hilton. People

wearing clerical collars and small crucifixes were wedged at tables

laden with muffins, bowing their heads in prayer. Seminarians were

welcomed. Scripture was cited. But the name of the sponsor cast

everything in a new light: the Planned Parenthood Federation of

America.

 

To its critics, Planned Parenthood is the godless super-merchant of

abortion. To its supporters, it is the dependably secular defender of

abortion rights. But at this breakfast, God was everywhere, easily

invoked by believers of various stripes.

 

" We are here this morning because, through our collective efforts, we

are agents in bringing our fragile world ever closer to the promise

of redemption, " Rabbi Dennis S. Ross, director of Concerned Clergy

for Choice, told the audience. " As clergy from an array of

denominations, we say yes to the call before us. Please join me in

prayer: We praise you, God, ruler of time and space, for challenging

us to bring healing and comfort to your world. "

 

" Amen, " the audience responded.

 

The Interfaith Prayer Breakfast has been part of Planned Parenthood's

annual convention for four years. Most ministers and rabbis at the

breakfast have known the group far longer.

 

Margaret Sanger, founder of the organization that became Planned

Parenthood, drew clergy members in the early 20th century by relating

the suffering of women who endured successive pregnancies that

ravaged their health and sought illegal abortions in their

desperation, said the Rev. Thomas R. Davis of the United Church of

Christ, in his book " Sacred Work, Planned Parenthood and Its Clergy

Alliances. "

 

In the 1930's, Jewish and mainline Protestant groups began to voice

their support for birth control. In 1962, a Maryland clergy coalition

successfully pressed the state to permit the disbursal of

contraception. In the late 1960's, some 2,000 ministers and rabbis

across the country banded together to give women information about

abortion providers and to lobby for the repeal of anti-abortion laws.

 

" The clergy could open that door because the clergy had a certain

moral authority, " said Mr. Davis, who is chairman of Planned

Parenthood's clergy advisory board but whose book is not sponsored by

the group. " They balanced the moral authority of the critics. "

 

As the scrape of silverware quieted at the breakfast, the Rev. W.

Stewart MacColl told the audience how a Presbyterian church in

Houston that he had led and several others had worked with Planned

Parenthood to start a family planning center. Protesters visited his

church. Yet his 900 parishioners drove through picket lines every

week to attend services. One Sunday, he and his wife, Jane, took

refreshments to the protesters out of respect for their understanding

of faith, he said.

 

Mr. MacColl said a parishioner called him the next day to

comment: " That's all very well for you to say, but you don't drive to

church with a 4-year-old in the back seat of your car and have to try

to explain to him when a woman holds up a picture of a dead baby and

screams through the window, 'Your church believes in killing

babies.' "

 

Mr. MacColl said of the abortion protester: " She would, I suspect,

count herself a lover of life, a lover of the unborn, a lover of God.

And yet she spoke in harshness, hatred and frightened a little child. "

 

Mr. MacColl quoted the theologian Reinhold Niebuhr: " 'Sometimes the

worst evil is done by good people who do not know that they are not

good.' "

 

The crowd murmured its assent.

 

Then Mr. MacColl challenged them. " The trouble is, I find myself

reflected in that woman, " he said. " Because I can get trapped in self-

righteousness and paint those who oppose me in dark colors they do

not deserve. Is that, at times, true of you, as well? "

 

This time, people were silent.

 

It is not lost on Mr. Davis how the passion of the Christian right in

its effort to abolish abortion and curtail access to birth control

now mirrors the efforts of clergy members 40 years ago to do the

opposite.

 

" They're a religious tradition, too, and they are moved by

Scripture, " he said, although the Bible says nothing explicit about

abortion. " When we understood the suffering in these kinds of

situations that women were in, we understood that for reasons of

justice, we had to act. We're doing it for theological and Biblical

reasons. "

 

A perception may exist that the denominations supporting abortion

rights are outnumbered and out-shouted by their more conservative

brethren. But that worried Mr. Davis little, he said, for he and

other like-minded clergy members were in the minority in the 1960's,

too.

 

Still, some clergy members could barely contain their outrage. " The

more we are able to cultivate the capacity in every person — women

and men — to make informed ethical judgments both in ourselves and

our society, the more we are coming into relationship with the

transcendent, with God, " said the Rev. Susan Thistlethwaite,

president of Chicago Theological Seminary.

 

" Human existence as a materialistic quest for power and dominance, a

crass manipulation of fear and intolerance for political gain, drives

us apart both from one another and from God, " she said. " For what

does it profit you to gain the whole world and lose your soul? "

[Guest guest]

somewhere, an earlier message is floating, I also find it interesting

that men (of the male sex), having nothing to do with the PROCESS of

giving birth, have historically created both reasons and weapons for

individual and/or mass destruction AND religions-belief systems that

have killed to defend or promote.

 

Have so much to say, even killing the doctor performing the

abortion. I wonder if they know they have aborted the fetus who

became that doctor. And society kills the killers.

 

I say this: all who are against abortions should take one or two

hungry, homeless or unwanted child into their homes and love care and

feed them. That is what life is about. IMHO.

 

Ana

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Surgeons Remove Two Fetuses From Infant

> > > > By PAUL GARWOOD, AP ONLINE

> > > >

> > > > ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - Surgeons operated on a 2-month-old

> > > > Pakistani girl Tuesday to remove two fetuses that had grown

> > inside

> > > > her while she was still in her mother's womb, a doctor said.

> > >

> > >

> > > Thousands of Christians are demonstrating against this cruel

> > surgery.

> > > Abortion is against God´s will, no human should ever destroy

what

> > God

> > > has created ;-)

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> > Hi Len...I'm not sure where I stand on the abortion issue in

toto.

> I

> > don't believe in either the surgical nor increasingly popular

> > pharmeceutical methods that are undertaken for frivolous purposes

> > like just not wanting to have a baby because it's inconvenient or

> any

> > other trite reason.With regards to incest, rape, or extenuating

> > circumstances with regard to the viability of the fetus or the

> > question of the mother's health in carrying to term, I'm not so

> sure

> > or dogmatic in my thoughts and opinions. But that's me and I can

> > understand anyone holding polar opposite views on this incredibly

> > highly sensitive matter. However under the circumstances of the

> > article under consideration here and the fact that the fetuses

were

> > non viable SIBLINGS of the infant..frankly I can't see your point

> of

> > view. Having said that, I would like to post an article regarding

> > Christians using the Holy Book itself in their defence of the

> > Opposite side namely: Right of Choice. Please go back and give

the

> > original article re the infant in Pakistan a re read and see if

you

> > don't change your mind on at least that particular case.

> > Thank you for making me think on my position re this.

> > ...bob

> >

> Political Memo

> The Abortion-Rights Side Invokes God, Too

> E-MailPrint Save By NEELA BANERJEE

> Published: April 3, 2006

> In any given week, if you walked into one of Washington's big

> corporate hotels early in the morning, you would find a community

of

> the faithful, quite often conservative Christians, rallying the

> troops, offering solace and denouncing the opposition at a prayer

> breakfast.

>

> So you might be forgiven for thinking that such a group was in

> attendance on Friday in a ballroom of the Washington Hilton. People

> wearing clerical collars and small crucifixes were wedged at tables

> laden with muffins, bowing their heads in prayer. Seminarians were

> welcomed. Scripture was cited. But the name of the sponsor cast

> everything in a new light: the Planned Parenthood Federation of

> America.

>

> To its critics, Planned Parenthood is the godless super-merchant of

> abortion. To its supporters, it is the dependably secular defender

of

> abortion rights. But at this breakfast, God was everywhere, easily

> invoked by believers of various stripes.

>

> " We are here this morning because, through our collective efforts,

we

> are agents in bringing our fragile world ever closer to the promise

> of redemption, " Rabbi Dennis S. Ross, director of Concerned Clergy

> for Choice, told the audience. " As clergy from an array of

> denominations, we say yes to the call before us. Please join me in

> prayer: We praise you, God, ruler of time and space, for

challenging

> us to bring healing and comfort to your world. "

>

> " Amen, " the audience responded.

>

> The Interfaith Prayer Breakfast has been part of Planned

Parenthood's

> annual convention for four years. Most ministers and rabbis at the

> breakfast have known the group far longer.

>

> Margaret Sanger, founder of the organization that became Planned

> Parenthood, drew clergy members in the early 20th century by

relating

> the suffering of women who endured successive pregnancies that

> ravaged their health and sought illegal abortions in their

> desperation, said the Rev. Thomas R. Davis of the United Church of

> Christ, in his book " Sacred Work, Planned Parenthood and Its Clergy

> Alliances. "

>

> In the 1930's, Jewish and mainline Protestant groups began to voice

> their support for birth control. In 1962, a Maryland clergy

coalition

> successfully pressed the state to permit the disbursal of

> contraception. In the late 1960's, some 2,000 ministers and rabbis

> across the country banded together to give women information about

> abortion providers and to lobby for the repeal of anti-abortion

laws.

>

> " The clergy could open that door because the clergy had a certain

> moral authority, " said Mr. Davis, who is chairman of Planned

> Parenthood's clergy advisory board but whose book is not sponsored

by

> the group. " They balanced the moral authority of the critics. "

>

> As the scrape of silverware quieted at the breakfast, the Rev. W.

> Stewart MacColl told the audience how a Presbyterian church in

> Houston that he had led and several others had worked with Planned

> Parenthood to start a family planning center. Protesters visited

his

> church. Yet his 900 parishioners drove through picket lines every

> week to attend services. One Sunday, he and his wife, Jane, took

> refreshments to the protesters out of respect for their

understanding

> of faith, he said.

>

> Mr. MacColl said a parishioner called him the next day to

> comment: " That's all very well for you to say, but you don't drive

to

> church with a 4-year-old in the back seat of your car and have to

try

> to explain to him when a woman holds up a picture of a dead baby

and

> screams through the window, 'Your church believes in killing

> babies.' "

>

> Mr. MacColl said of the abortion protester: " She would, I suspect,

> count herself a lover of life, a lover of the unborn, a lover of

God.

> And yet she spoke in harshness, hatred and frightened a little

child. "

>

> Mr. MacColl quoted the theologian Reinhold Niebuhr: " 'Sometimes

the

> worst evil is done by good people who do not know that they are not

> good.' "

>

> The crowd murmured its assent.

>

> Then Mr. MacColl challenged them. " The trouble is, I find myself

> reflected in that woman, " he said. " Because I can get trapped in

self-

> righteousness and paint those who oppose me in dark colors they do

> not deserve. Is that, at times, true of you, as well? "

>

> This time, people were silent.

>

> It is not lost on Mr. Davis how the passion of the Christian right

in

> its effort to abolish abortion and curtail access to birth control

> now mirrors the efforts of clergy members 40 years ago to do the

> opposite.

>

> " They're a religious tradition, too, and they are moved by

> Scripture, " he said, although the Bible says nothing explicit about

> abortion. " When we understood the suffering in these kinds of

> situations that women were in, we understood that for reasons of

> justice, we had to act. We're doing it for theological and Biblical

> reasons. "

>

> A perception may exist that the denominations supporting abortion

> rights are outnumbered and out-shouted by their more conservative

> brethren. But that worried Mr. Davis little, he said, for he and

> other like-minded clergy members were in the minority in the

1960's,

> too.

>

> Still, some clergy members could barely contain their outrage. " The

> more we are able to cultivate the capacity in every person — women

> and men — to make informed ethical judgments both in ourselves and

> our society, the more we are coming into relationship with the

> transcendent, with God, " said the Rev. Susan Thistlethwaite,

> president of Chicago Theological Seminary.

>

> " Human existence as a materialistic quest for power and dominance,

a

> crass manipulation of fear and intolerance for political gain,

drives

> us apart both from one another and from God, " she said. " For what

> does it profit you to gain the whole world and lose your soul? "

>