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Re true by definition (((Conditioning and th

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> > B:

> > Looking at your, " The idea of one who is conditioned, " I can

> > infer that you mean that conditioning inherently implies " one

> > who is conditioned " . If so, that is a grammatical statement,

> > not an empirical statement. It is not true by *observation*

> > but by definition.

>

>

> L:

> Nothing is ever true by definition, Bill.

>

>

 

Lot's of stuff is.

 

If a set A is *defined as* the set of four numbers: 1, 2, 7, 41

then the statement, " 2 belongs to A, " is true, by definition.

 

Also, " Bachelors are unmarried " , is a true statement,

again by definition.

 

There are " empirical statements " , which are statements of

observations in the " world " as per the senses. But not

all statements are empirical statements.

 

In other words there are *different kinds of* truth.

Right now it is raining outside where I am. So the

statement, " It is raining here, " is true. That's an

empirical statement and one kind of truth.

 

That 2 is in the set A defined above is true in a different

sense. That is not an empirical statement.

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote:

>

> > > B:

> > > Looking at your, " The idea of one who is conditioned, " I can

> > > infer that you mean that conditioning inherently implies " one

> > > who is conditioned " . If so, that is a grammatical statement,

> > > not an empirical statement. It is not true by *observation*

> > > but by definition.

> >

> >

> > L:

> > Nothing is ever true by definition, Bill.

> >

> >

>

> Lot's of stuff is.

>

> If a set A is *defined as* the set of four numbers: 1, 2, 7, 41

> then the statement, " 2 belongs to A, " is true, by definition.

>

> Also, " Bachelors are unmarried " , is a true statement,

> again by definition.

>

> There are " empirical statements " , which are statements of

> observations in the " world " as per the senses. But not

> all statements are empirical statements.

>

> In other words there are *different kinds of* truth.

> Right now it is raining outside where I am. So the

> statement, " It is raining here, " is true. That's an

> empirical statement and one kind of truth.

>

> That 2 is in the set A defined above is true in a different

> sense. That is not an empirical statement.

>

> Bill

 

 

I wasn't talking about abstractions, but about observable things.

 

Len

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> > > > B:

> > > > Looking at your, " The idea of one who is conditioned, " I can

> > > > infer that you mean that conditioning inherently implies " one

> > > > who is conditioned " . If so, that is a grammatical statement,

> > > > not an empirical statement. It is not true by *observation*

> > > > but by definition.

> > > L:

> > > Nothing is ever true by definition, Bill.

 

> I wasn't talking about abstractions, but about observable things.

>

> Len

>

Well, then you really didn't read what I had written:

 

When you wrote: " Nothing is ever true by definition. "

I had made a clear distinction between an empirical statement

and a grammatical statement.

 

Your statement: " Nothing is ever true by definition, " sounds

quite unqualified, if you ask me.

 

Apparently what you *meant* to say was, " No empirical statement

is ever true by definition. " Is that right?

 

If that *is* what you meant, which why you didn't make that

clear when I had already made a distinction between

grammatical statements and empirical statements, is beyond

me.

 

And, if " " No empirical statement is ever true by definition, "

*is* what you intended to say, then *that* statement is true

by definition.

 

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn

wrote:

>

> > > > > B:

> > > > > Looking at your, " The idea of one who is conditioned, " I

can

> > > > > infer that you mean that conditioning inherently

implies " one

> > > > > who is conditioned " . If so, that is a grammatical

statement,

> > > > > not an empirical statement. It is not true by *observation*

> > > > > but by definition.

> > > > L:

> > > > Nothing is ever true by definition, Bill.

>

> > I wasn't talking about abstractions, but about observable things.

> >

> > Len

> >

> Well, then you really didn't read what I had written:

>

> When you wrote: " Nothing is ever true by definition. "

> I had made a clear distinction between an empirical statement

> and a grammatical statement.

>

> Your statement: " Nothing is ever true by definition, " sounds

> quite unqualified, if you ask me.

 

 

 

I wasn´t discussing gramatical statements with you.

What´s the use of this dialogue now?

Let´s forget about it and talk about what matters.

 

 

 

 

 

> Apparently what you *meant* to say was, " No empirical statement

> is ever true by definition. " Is that right?

 

 

Yes, it´s right.

 

 

> If that *is* what you meant, which why you didn't make that

> clear when I had already made a distinction between

> grammatical statements and empirical statements, is beyond

> me.

>

> And, if " " No empirical statement is ever true by definition, "

> *is* what you intended to say, then *that* statement is true

> by definition.

>

>

> Bill

 

 

 

And now? what?

What´s the point of it all?

Being right or wrong?

Or do we have some really interesting issues to talk about?

Where did we start anyway?

 

Len

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