Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 As most of you know I work with mentally ill adults. With the ones I work with there is some hope of them returning to a non-institutional environment. The type of program is call " crisis residential " . They live on site while in the program, and their stay is intended to be relatively short term (1-3 months). They come to the program upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. So they come into the program having recently experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically for drug use). What the above means is that the clients in the program are very low in self-esteem. They've really hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach when working with them is to not see them in terms of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat them with complete human dignity. I treat them with the same sensitivity and consideration as I do with my own loved ones. And I find they really respond to that. If I am just being the pure vibration of truth as I stand before them, then it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* responds to that. So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the *spirit* of the exchange. I was thinking the other morning about a certain irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity and consideration toward other of the members. This is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, and yet many of the interactions here are so far below what I consider treatment with basic human dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the Golden Rule here. Know what I mean? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > residential " . They live on site while in the > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > So they come into the program having recently > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > for drug use). > > What the above means is that the clients in the > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > when working with them is to not see them in terms > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > responds to that. > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > *spirit* of the exchange. > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > and consideration toward other of the members. This > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > below what I consider treatment with basic human > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > Golden Rule here. > > Know what I mean? > > > Bill > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving your neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had had it with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the Temple (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He stated that if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that man had never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD IT. If you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ and nor should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what I see as the right thing to do.............bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > So they come into the program having recently > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > for drug use). > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > responds to that. > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > Golden Rule here. > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > Bill > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of doing > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving your > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had had it > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the Temple > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He stated that > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that man had > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD IT. If > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ and nor > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what I see > as the right thing to do.............bob > Of course stick with what you see is right. And why read in insinuations and innuendos? I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. It is simply something that occurred to me with some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. Do you need take offense? Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. Aren't we here to learn from challenge? We don't *have* to read any particular person's postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes someone's post in response to me will be a bit trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists like this long enough to know that a little time brings a different point of view. And sometimes it will seem that clear communication with a particular individual is pointless, so I will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges with that person for a while. You say you have HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it seems like there is no point. And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with bizarre behavior! A possibility? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > for drug use). > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > responds to that. > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of doing > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving your > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had had it > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the Temple > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He stated that > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that man had > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD IT. If > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ and nor > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what I see > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > It is simply something that occurred to me with > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > Do you need take offense? > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > like this long enough to know that a little > time brings a different point of view. > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > with that person for a while. You say you have > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > seems like there is no point. > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > bizarre behavior! A possibility? LOL! My philosophy is live and let live. Some people just aren´t able to control their impulses and we cannot just change them. I never complain about the reactions I get, one always gets what one deserves. My action triggers some reactions and I take it like it comes and learn from it. The most important thing is that words don´t kill, and if somebody isn´t emotionally stable enough to deal with some unpleasant or inappropriate reactions, internet forums are not good for him, because there will be always some aggressive individuals there... Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > for drug use). > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > responds to that. > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of doing > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving your > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had had it > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the Temple > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He stated that > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that man had > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD IT. If > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ and nor > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what I see > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > It is simply something that occurred to me with > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > Do you need take offense? > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > like this long enough to know that a little > time brings a different point of view. > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > with that person for a while. You say you have > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > seems like there is no point. > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > Bill > Bill....sorry for having taken offense, which admittedly I did. And you are correct in that the Buddha, Lao tsu, Confucious, most of the Sufi mystics in their beautiful poetry (although I'm not so sure on Muhammed himself),most of the dielectic Philosophers of the Western Enlightenment and beyond,most of the Chinese and Japanese philosophers and sages, most of the Hindu vedantists. advaitists, mythologists etc. etc., have all spoken of and to the Golden Rule. They have all called us to bear witness to the importance of forgiveness as well. But whereas I may turn my cheek 70 x 70 times to the insults and figurative rocks thrown at me, or others as I watch, I need not FORGET and I need not remain mute. I have stated any number of times that my intent was as a mirror and was indeed slightful and coarse in kind. I have stated time and again that this behaviour was for the very good of the target of my reflecting insults. But the insulting condescentions continue and thereby my reactive attempts at corrections will continue. I admire your patience and regard your working with the deluded as indeed a contributing factor in your ability to handle the unacceptable behaviour of whom we now speak. I will not leave off..that is not my style or form as regards trying to communicate what I believe is in the best interests of anyone. Forgiveness is easy Bill. Conversion to truth as best as I am able see it, is not. This has no bearing on my wish for a better way of progress and communication with everyone including that personage. With a promise to better contain the harshness as perceived,I will just shut up now and hope for a better day........bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > > for drug use). > > > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > > responds to that. > > > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of > doing > > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving your > > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had had > it > > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the Temple > > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He stated > that > > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that man > had > > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD IT. > If > > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ and > nor > > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what I > see > > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > > It is simply something that occurred to me with > > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > > Do you need take offense? > > > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > > like this long enough to know that a little > > time brings a different point of view. > > > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > > with that person for a while. You say you have > > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > > seems like there is no point. > > > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > > > > Bill > > Bill....sorry for having taken offense, which admittedly I did. And you are correct in that the Buddha, Lao tsu, Confucious, most of the Sufi mystics in their beautiful poetry (although I'm not so sure on Muhammed himself),most of the dielectic Philosophers of the Western Enlightenment and beyond,most of the Chinese and Japanese philosophers and sages, most of the Hindu vedantists. advaitists, mythologists etc. etc., have all spoken of and to the Golden Rule. They have all called us to bear witness to the importance of forgiveness as well. But whereas I may turn my cheek 70 x 70 times to the insults and figurative rocks thrown at me, or others as I watch, I need not FORGET and I need not remain mute. I have stated any number of times that my intent was as a mirror and was indeed slightful and coarse in kind. I have stated time and again that this behaviour was for the very good of the target of my reflecting insults. But the insulting condescentions continue and thereby my reactive attempts at corrections will continue. I admire your patience and regard your working with the deluded as indeed a contributing factor in your ability to handle the unacceptable behaviour of whom we now speak. I will not leave off..that is not my style or form as regards trying to communicate what I believe is in the best interests of anyone. Forgiveness is easy Bill. Conversion to truth as best as I am able see it, is not. This has no bearing on my wish for a better way of progress and communication with everyone including that personage. With a promise to better contain the harshness as perceived,I will just shut up now and hope for a better day........bob ~~~~~~~~ Forsooth Bob! That bit of oration was definitely worth the price of admission! Where did you get all that rundown on the Golden Rule Gang? Did you read that straight from the Akashic Records? Interesting about the Western philosophers too, as it brought to mind Kant's Categorical Imperative... As to your drift, yes I do get it. No point in half measures, is there? Each is on his/her own track of treading, and there are NO RULES about what is right and wrong. Although we may haggle about what's right and wrong from time to time. But no rule against that either. So here we are. I've had my say, you've had yours, and we both know a little more about the other. A pretty good shake, if I may say so. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > > > for drug use). > > > > > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > > > responds to that. > > > > > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of > > doing > > > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving your > > > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had had > > it > > > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the Temple > > > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He stated > > that > > > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that man > > had > > > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD IT. > > If > > > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ and > > nor > > > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what I > > see > > > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > > > > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > > > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > > > > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > > > It is simply something that occurred to me with > > > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > > > Do you need take offense? > > > > > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > > > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > > > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > > > > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > > > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > > > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > > > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > > > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > > > like this long enough to know that a little > > > time brings a different point of view. > > > > > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > > > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > > > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > > > with that person for a while. You say you have > > > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > > > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > > > seems like there is no point. > > > > > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > > > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > > > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > Bill....sorry for having taken offense, which admittedly I did. And > you are correct in that the Buddha, Lao tsu, Confucious, most of the > Sufi mystics in their beautiful poetry (although I'm not so sure on > Muhammed himself),most of the dielectic Philosophers of the Western > Enlightenment and beyond,most of the Chinese and Japanese > philosophers and sages, most of the Hindu vedantists. advaitists, > mythologists etc. etc., have all spoken of and to the Golden Rule. > They have all called us to bear witness to the importance of > forgiveness as well. But whereas I may turn my cheek 70 x 70 times to > the insults and figurative rocks thrown at me, or others as I watch, > I need not FORGET and I need not remain mute. I have stated any > number of times that my intent was as a mirror and was indeed > slightful and coarse in kind. I have stated time and again that this > behaviour was for the very good of the target of my reflecting > insults. But the insulting condescentions continue and thereby my > reactive attempts at corrections will continue. I admire your > patience and regard your working with the deluded as indeed a > contributing factor in your ability to handle the unacceptable > behaviour of whom we now speak. I will not leave off..that is not my > style or form as regards trying to communicate what I believe is in > the best interests of anyone. Forgiveness is easy Bill. Conversion to > truth as best as I am able see it, is not. This has no bearing on my > wish for a better way of progress and communication with everyone > including that personage. With a promise to better contain the > harshness as perceived,I will just shut up now and hope for a better > day........bob > > ~~~~~~~~ > > Forsooth Bob! That bit of oration was definitely worth the > price of admission! > > Where did you get all that rundown on the Golden Rule Gang? > Did you read that straight from the Akashic Records? > > Interesting about the Western philosophers too, as it > brought to mind Kant's Categorical Imperative... > > As to your drift, yes I do get it. > No point in half measures, is there? > > Each is on his/her own track of treading, and there > are NO RULES about what is right and wrong. > > Although we may haggle about what's right and wrong > from time to time. But no rule against that either. > > So here we are. I've had my say, you've had yours, > and we both know a little more about the other. A pretty > good shake, if I may say so. > > > Bill :-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > > for drug use). > > > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > > responds to that. > > > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of > doing > > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving your > > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had > had it > > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the Temple > > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He stated > that > > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that man > had > > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD > IT. If > > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ > and nor > > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what I > see > > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > > It is simply something that occurred to me with > > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > > Do you need take offense? > > > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > > like this long enough to know that a little > > time brings a different point of view. > > > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > > with that person for a while. You say you have > > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > > seems like there is no point. > > > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > > LOL! > My philosophy is live and let live. > Some people just aren´t able to control their impulses and we cannot > just change them. > I never complain about the reactions I get, one always gets what one > deserves. My action triggers some reactions and I take it like it > comes and learn from it. > The most important thing is that words don´t kill, and if somebody > isn´t emotionally stable enough to deal with some unpleasant or > inappropriate reactions, internet forums are not good for him, > because there will be always some aggressive individuals there... > > Len > Well said. And that " one always gets what one deserves " is a good way to look at it. My take on a perspective like that is that it doesn't matter so much whether it is true... it is clearly the most sane way to look at things... in my view anyway. As for " live and let live " , there's a Buddhist notion of " ahimsa " ... meaning non-harming... that basically says the same thing. The thing about it for me is that it is more than just a practice of consideration and sensitivity to others as a spiritual practice. There is a very important practical aspect: So many times that I have been about to throw in the towel but hung in there one more time... and wow, there's a breakthrough. I've often looked back and seen where a time I exercised restraint was something I was very glad I had done. And I've can't seem to think of a time I've looked back at when I've " lost it " and thought, " Yeah, that was good I did that! " Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > > > for drug use). > > > > > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > > > responds to that. > > > > > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of > > doing > > > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving your > > > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had had > > it > > > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the Temple > > > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He stated > > that > > > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that man > > had > > > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD IT. > > If > > > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ and > > nor > > > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what I > > see > > > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > > > > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > > > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > > > > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > > > It is simply something that occurred to me with > > > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > > > Do you need take offense? > > > > > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > > > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > > > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > > > > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > > > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > > > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > > > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > > > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > > > like this long enough to know that a little > > > time brings a different point of view. > > > > > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > > > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > > > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > > > with that person for a while. You say you have > > > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > > > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > > > seems like there is no point. > > > > > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > > > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > > > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > Bill....sorry for having taken offense, which admittedly I did. And > you are correct in that the Buddha, Lao tsu, Confucious, most of the > Sufi mystics in their beautiful poetry (although I'm not so sure on > Muhammed himself),most of the dielectic Philosophers of the Western > Enlightenment and beyond,most of the Chinese and Japanese > philosophers and sages, most of the Hindu vedantists. advaitists, > mythologists etc. etc., have all spoken of and to the Golden Rule. > They have all called us to bear witness to the importance of > forgiveness as well. But whereas I may turn my cheek 70 x 70 times to > the insults and figurative rocks thrown at me, or others as I watch, > I need not FORGET and I need not remain mute. I have stated any > number of times that my intent was as a mirror and was indeed > slightful and coarse in kind. I have stated time and again that this > behaviour was for the very good of the target of my reflecting > insults. But the insulting condescentions continue and thereby my > reactive attempts at corrections will continue. I admire your > patience and regard your working with the deluded as indeed a > contributing factor in your ability to handle the unacceptable > behaviour of whom we now speak. I will not leave off..that is not my > style or form as regards trying to communicate what I believe is in > the best interests of anyone. Forgiveness is easy Bill. Conversion to > truth as best as I am able see it, is not. This has no bearing on my > wish for a better way of progress and communication with everyone > including that personage. With a promise to better contain the > harshness as perceived,I will just shut up now and hope for a better > day........bob > > ~~~~~~~~ > > Forsooth Bob! That bit of oration was definitely worth the > price of admission! > > Where did you get all that rundown on the Golden Rule Gang? > Did you read that straight from the Akashic Records? > > Interesting about the Western philosophers too, as it > brought to mind Kant's Categorical Imperative... > > As to your drift, yes I do get it. > No point in half measures, is there? > > Each is on his/her own track of treading, and there > are NO RULES about what is right and wrong. > > Although we may haggle about what's right and wrong > from time to time. But no rule against that either. > > So here we are. I've had my say, you've had yours, > and we both know a little more about the other. A pretty > good shake, if I may say so. > > > Bill > Yes...It is good. This has been a great shake! .........bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > > > for drug use). > > > > > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > > > responds to that. > > > > > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of > > doing > > > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving your > > > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had > > had it > > > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the Temple > > > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He stated > > that > > > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that man > > had > > > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD > > IT. If > > > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ > > and nor > > > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what I > > see > > > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > > > > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > > > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > > > > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > > > It is simply something that occurred to me with > > > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > > > Do you need take offense? > > > > > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > > > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > > > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > > > > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > > > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > > > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > > > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > > > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > > > like this long enough to know that a little > > > time brings a different point of view. > > > > > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > > > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > > > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > > > with that person for a while. You say you have > > > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > > > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > > > seems like there is no point. > > > > > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > > > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > > > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > > > > > > LOL! > > My philosophy is live and let live. > > Some people just aren´t able to control their impulses and we cannot > > just change them. > > I never complain about the reactions I get, one always gets what one > > deserves. My action triggers some reactions and I take it like it > > comes and learn from it. > > The most important thing is that words don´t kill, and if somebody > > isn´t emotionally stable enough to deal with some unpleasant or > > inappropriate reactions, internet forums are not good for him, > > because there will be always some aggressive individuals there... > > > > Len > > > > Well said. And that " one always gets what one deserves " is a > good way to look at it. > > My take on a perspective like that is that it doesn't matter > so much whether it is true... it is clearly the most sane way > to look at things... in my view anyway. > > As for " live and let live " , there's a Buddhist notion of > " ahimsa " ... meaning non-harming... that basically says the > same thing. > > The thing about it for me is that it is more than just a > practice of consideration and sensitivity to others as a > spiritual practice. There is a very important practical > aspect: So many times that I have been about to throw in > the towel but hung in there one more time... and wow, there's > a breakthrough. > > I've often looked back and seen where a time I exercised > restraint was something I was very glad I had done. > > And I've can't seem to think of a time I've looked back at > when I've " lost it " and thought, " Yeah, that was good I did > that! " > > > Bill > This is apodeictic! Logically true, genuine and honorable.I am not yet up to living it's fundamental reality. And consequently there are times I pay and I pay and I pay..........Hopefully there is a growth factor there as well..time will tell, as it does in all things....bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > > > > for drug use). > > > > > > > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > > > > responds to that. > > > > > > > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of > > > doing > > > > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving > your > > > > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had > had > > > it > > > > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the > Temple > > > > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He > stated > > > that > > > > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that > man > > > had > > > > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD > IT. > > > If > > > > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > > > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ > and > > > nor > > > > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > > > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what > I > > > see > > > > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > > > > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > > > > It is simply something that occurred to me with > > > > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > > > > Do you need take offense? > > > > > > > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > > > > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > > > > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > > > > > > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > > > > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > > > > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > > > > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > > > > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > > > > like this long enough to know that a little > > > > time brings a different point of view. > > > > > > > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > > > > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > > > > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > > > > with that person for a while. You say you have > > > > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > > > > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > > > > seems like there is no point. > > > > > > > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > > > > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > > > > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Bill....sorry for having taken offense, which admittedly I did. And > > you are correct in that the Buddha, Lao tsu, Confucious, most of the > > Sufi mystics in their beautiful poetry (although I'm not so sure on > > Muhammed himself),most of the dielectic Philosophers of the Western > > Enlightenment and beyond,most of the Chinese and Japanese > > philosophers and sages, most of the Hindu vedantists. advaitists, > > mythologists etc. etc., have all spoken of and to the Golden Rule. > > They have all called us to bear witness to the importance of > > forgiveness as well. But whereas I may turn my cheek 70 x 70 times > to > > the insults and figurative rocks thrown at me, or others as I watch, > > I need not FORGET and I need not remain mute. I have stated any > > number of times that my intent was as a mirror and was indeed > > slightful and coarse in kind. I have stated time and again that this > > behaviour was for the very good of the target of my reflecting > > insults. But the insulting condescentions continue and thereby my > > reactive attempts at corrections will continue. I admire your > > patience and regard your working with the deluded as indeed a > > contributing factor in your ability to handle the unacceptable > > behaviour of whom we now speak. I will not leave off..that is not my > > style or form as regards trying to communicate what I believe is in > > the best interests of anyone. Forgiveness is easy Bill. Conversion > to > > truth as best as I am able see it, is not. This has no bearing on my > > wish for a better way of progress and communication with everyone > > including that personage. With a promise to better contain the > > harshness as perceived,I will just shut up now and hope for a better > > day........bob > > > > ~~~~~~~~ > > > > Forsooth Bob! That bit of oration was definitely worth the > > price of admission! > > > > Where did you get all that rundown on the Golden Rule Gang? > > Did you read that straight from the Akashic Records? > > > > Interesting about the Western philosophers too, as it > > brought to mind Kant's Categorical Imperative... > > > > As to your drift, yes I do get it. > > No point in half measures, is there? > > > > Each is on his/her own track of treading, and there > > are NO RULES about what is right and wrong. > > > > Although we may haggle about what's right and wrong > > from time to time. But no rule against that either. > > > > So here we are. I've had my say, you've had yours, > > and we both know a little more about the other. A pretty > > good shake, if I may say so. > > > > > > Bill > > > Yes...It is good. This has been a great shake! > .........bob > ) Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > > > > for drug use). > > > > > > > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > > > > responds to that. > > > > > > > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of > > > doing > > > > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving > your > > > > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had > > > had it > > > > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the > Temple > > > > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He > stated > > > that > > > > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that > man > > > had > > > > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD > > > IT. If > > > > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > > > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ > > > and nor > > > > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > > > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what > I > > > see > > > > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > > > > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > > > > It is simply something that occurred to me with > > > > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > > > > Do you need take offense? > > > > > > > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > > > > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > > > > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > > > > > > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > > > > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > > > > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > > > > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > > > > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > > > > like this long enough to know that a little > > > > time brings a different point of view. > > > > > > > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > > > > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > > > > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > > > > with that person for a while. You say you have > > > > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > > > > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > > > > seems like there is no point. > > > > > > > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > > > > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > > > > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > My philosophy is live and let live. > > > Some people just aren´t able to control their impulses and we > cannot > > > just change them. > > > I never complain about the reactions I get, one always gets what > one > > > deserves. My action triggers some reactions and I take it like it > > > comes and learn from it. > > > The most important thing is that words don´t kill, and if > somebody > > > isn´t emotionally stable enough to deal with some unpleasant or > > > inappropriate reactions, internet forums are not good for him, > > > because there will be always some aggressive individuals there... > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > Well said. And that " one always gets what one deserves " is a > > good way to look at it. > > > > My take on a perspective like that is that it doesn't matter > > so much whether it is true... it is clearly the most sane way > > to look at things... in my view anyway. > > > > As for " live and let live " , there's a Buddhist notion of > > " ahimsa " ... meaning non-harming... that basically says the > > same thing. > > > > The thing about it for me is that it is more than just a > > practice of consideration and sensitivity to others as a > > spiritual practice. There is a very important practical > > aspect: So many times that I have been about to throw in > > the towel but hung in there one more time... and wow, there's > > a breakthrough. > > > > I've often looked back and seen where a time I exercised > > restraint was something I was very glad I had done. > > > > And I've can't seem to think of a time I've looked back at > > when I've " lost it " and thought, " Yeah, that was good I did > > that! " > > > > > > Bill > > > This is apodeictic! Logically true, genuine and honorable.I am > not yet up to living it's fundamental reality. And consequently there > are times I pay and I pay and I pay..........Hopefully there is a > growth factor there as well..time will tell, as it does in all > things....bob > Bob, you're a trip! apodeictic, apodictic a. evident; demonstrable; incontrovertible. Found that on the online *Dictionary of Difficult Words* So can you help me on the etymology? Apo- means " from, away from, separate " ... apodictic would seem to mean " from speech " ... hmmm... apodeictic... maybe meaning from the lips of God? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > > > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > > > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > > > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > > > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > > > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > > > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > > > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > > > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > > > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > > > > > for drug use). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > > > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > > > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > > > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > > > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > > > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > > > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > > > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > > > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > > > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > > > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > > > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > > > > > responds to that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > > > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > > > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > > > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > > > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > > > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > > > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > > > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > > > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > > > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > > > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of > > > > doing > > > > > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving > > your > > > > > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had > > > > had it > > > > > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the > > Temple > > > > > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He > > stated > > > > that > > > > > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that > > man > > > > had > > > > > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD > > > > IT. If > > > > > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > > > > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ > > > > and nor > > > > > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > > > > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what > > I > > > > see > > > > > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > > > > > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > > > > > It is simply something that occurred to me with > > > > > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > > > > > Do you need take offense? > > > > > > > > > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > > > > > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > > > > > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > > > > > > > > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > > > > > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > > > > > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > > > > > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > > > > > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > > > > > like this long enough to know that a little > > > > > time brings a different point of view. > > > > > > > > > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > > > > > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > > > > > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > > > > > with that person for a while. You say you have > > > > > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > > > > > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > > > > > seems like there is no point. > > > > > > > > > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > > > > > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > > > > > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > My philosophy is live and let live. > > > > Some people just aren´t able to control their impulses and we > > cannot > > > > just change them. > > > > I never complain about the reactions I get, one always gets what > > one > > > > deserves. My action triggers some reactions and I take it like it > > > > comes and learn from it. > > > > The most important thing is that words don´t kill, and if > > somebody > > > > isn´t emotionally stable enough to deal with some unpleasant or > > > > inappropriate reactions, internet forums are not good for him, > > > > because there will be always some aggressive individuals there... > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > Well said. And that " one always gets what one deserves " is a > > > good way to look at it. > > > > > > My take on a perspective like that is that it doesn't matter > > > so much whether it is true... it is clearly the most sane way > > > to look at things... in my view anyway. > > > > > > As for " live and let live " , there's a Buddhist notion of > > > " ahimsa " ... meaning non-harming... that basically says the > > > same thing. > > > > > > The thing about it for me is that it is more than just a > > > practice of consideration and sensitivity to others as a > > > spiritual practice. There is a very important practical > > > aspect: So many times that I have been about to throw in > > > the towel but hung in there one more time... and wow, there's > > > a breakthrough. > > > > > > I've often looked back and seen where a time I exercised > > > restraint was something I was very glad I had done. > > > > > > And I've can't seem to think of a time I've looked back at > > > when I've " lost it " and thought, " Yeah, that was good I did > > > that! " > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > This is apodeictic! Logically true, genuine and honorable.I am > > not yet up to living it's fundamental reality. And consequently there > > are times I pay and I pay and I pay..........Hopefully there is a > > growth factor there as well..time will tell, as it does in all > > things....bob > > > Bob, you're a trip! > > > apodeictic, apodictic > > a. evident; demonstrable; incontrovertible. > > Found that on the online *Dictionary of Difficult Words* > > So can you help me on the etymology? > Apo- means " from, away from, separate " ... > apodictic would seem to mean " from speech " ... > > hmmm... > > apodeictic... maybe meaning from the lips of God? > > > Bill > I'm not sure on the etymology of the word. But I like your breakdown. Sounds good like God should. :-)) ........bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 In a message dated 4/3/2006 4:01:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:04:38 -0000 " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 Re: Basic Human Dignity Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > for drug use). > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > responds to that. > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of doing > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving your > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had had it > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the Temple > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He stated that > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that man had > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD IT. If > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ and nor > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what I see > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > It is simply something that occurred to me with > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > Do you need take offense? > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > like this long enough to know that a little > time brings a different point of view. > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > with that person for a while. You say you have > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > seems like there is no point. > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > Bill > Bill....sorry for having taken offense, which admittedly I did. And you are correct in that the Buddha, Lao tsu, Confucious, most of the Sufi mystics in their beautiful poetry (although I'm not so sure on Muhammed himself),most of the dielectic Philosophers of the Western Enlightenment and beyond,most of the Chinese and Japanese philosophers and sages, most of the Hindu vedantists. advaitists, mythologists etc. etc., have all spoken of and to the Golden Rule. They have all called us to bear witness to the importance of forgiveness as well. But whereas I may turn my cheek 70 x 70 times to the insults and figurative rocks thrown at me, or others as I watch, I need not FORGET and I need not remain mute. I have stated any number of times that my intent was as a mirror and was indeed slightful and coarse in kind. I have stated time and again that this behaviour was for the very good of the target of my reflecting insults. But the insulting condescentions continue and thereby my reactive attempts at corrections will continue. I admire your patience and regard your working with the deluded as indeed a contributing factor in your ability to handle the unacceptable behaviour of whom we now speak. I will not leave off..that is not my style or form as regards trying to communicate what I believe is in the best interests of anyone. Forgiveness is easy Bill. Conversion to truth as best as I am able see it, is not. This has no bearing on my wish for a better way of progress and communication with everyone including that personage. With a promise to better contain the harshness as perceived,I will just shut up now and hope for a better day........bob Possibly, simply accepting everything for what it is a 'higher' truth than the golden rule? When one embraces a rule of any kind as the 'right' way of being, doesn't that imply that whoever doesn't follow this rule is wrong and perhaps needs to be corrected for that? We could look on some of your responses, Bob, as exactly that correction, so Bill calls for the golden rule, and the two of you enforce it. I don't see what the problem is here. The way I see it, some are exploring various areas of resistance, and there's nothing wrong with that. If somebody is offended, they are also exploring resistance. If someone is being criticized, and that criticism results in them seeing things in a new way, that's great too. I sometimes feel the need to speak the truth even though I know it may offend. I know where that need is coming from and so I don't judge anybody else in the process. That's the best I can do. I don't, however, concern myself with the reactions or ego sensitivities of others. That's their concern. From an ego perspective, I have no way of knowing when my truth is best spoken, and when it's best to keep quiet, so I follow my inner sense on that and let that, too, be what it is. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > Well said. And that " one always gets what one deserves " is a > good way to look at it. > > My take on a perspective like that is that it doesn't matter > so much whether it is true... it is clearly the most sane way > to look at things... in my view anyway. It comes down to taking full responsibilty for your own reactions, no matter what happens. > As for " live and let live " , there's a Buddhist notion of > " ahimsa " ... meaning non-harming... that basically says the > same thing. > > The thing about it for me is that it is more than just a > practice of consideration and sensitivity to others as a > spiritual practice. There is a very important practical > aspect: So many times that I have been about to throw in > the towel but hung in there one more time... and wow, there's > a breakthrough. > > I've often looked back and seen where a time I exercised > restraint was something I was very glad I had done. > > And I've can't seem to think of a time I've looked back at > when I've " lost it " and thought, " Yeah, that was good I did > that! " > > > Bill Yes, I understand. On another hand, could there be something of control in this attitude? Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > > > > for drug use). > > > > > > > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > > > > responds to that. > > > > > > > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of > > > doing > > > > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving > your > > > > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had > > > had it > > > > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the > Temple > > > > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He > stated > > > that > > > > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that > man > > > had > > > > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD > > > IT. If > > > > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > > > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ > > > and nor > > > > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > > > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what > I > > > see > > > > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > > > > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > > > > It is simply something that occurred to me with > > > > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > > > > Do you need take offense? > > > > > > > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > > > > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > > > > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > > > > > > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > > > > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > > > > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > > > > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > > > > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > > > > like this long enough to know that a little > > > > time brings a different point of view. > > > > > > > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > > > > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > > > > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > > > > with that person for a while. You say you have > > > > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > > > > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > > > > seems like there is no point. > > > > > > > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > > > > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > > > > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > My philosophy is live and let live. > > > Some people just aren´t able to control their impulses and we > cannot > > > just change them. > > > I never complain about the reactions I get, one always gets what > one > > > deserves. My action triggers some reactions and I take it like it > > > comes and learn from it. > > > The most important thing is that words don´t kill, and if > somebody > > > isn´t emotionally stable enough to deal with some unpleasant or > > > inappropriate reactions, internet forums are not good for him, > > > because there will be always some aggressive individuals there... > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > Well said. And that " one always gets what one deserves " is a > > good way to look at it. > > > > My take on a perspective like that is that it doesn't matter > > so much whether it is true... it is clearly the most sane way > > to look at things... in my view anyway. > > > > As for " live and let live " , there's a Buddhist notion of > > " ahimsa " ... meaning non-harming... that basically says the > > same thing. > > > > The thing about it for me is that it is more than just a > > practice of consideration and sensitivity to others as a > > spiritual practice. There is a very important practical > > aspect: So many times that I have been about to throw in > > the towel but hung in there one more time... and wow, there's > > a breakthrough. > > > > I've often looked back and seen where a time I exercised > > restraint was something I was very glad I had done. > > > > And I've can't seem to think of a time I've looked back at > > when I've " lost it " and thought, " Yeah, that was good I did > > that! " > > > > > > Bill > > > This is apodeictic! Logically true, genuine and honorable.I am > not yet up to living it's fundamental reality. And consequently there > are times I pay and I pay and I pay..........Hopefully there is a > growth factor there as well..time will tell, as it does in all > things....bob Yes, there is a time factor, understanding grows through attention, if we are only honest in our intention to understand. The danger of " growth " is though, that we may cling to a goal, to an ideal of how we want to be, and therefore be unable to see how we ARE now. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/3/2006 4:01:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:04:38 -0000 > " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 > Re: Basic Human Dignity > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > > for drug use). > > > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > > responds to that. > > > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of > doing > > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving your > > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had had > it > > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the Temple > > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He stated > that > > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that man > had > > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD IT. > If > > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ and > nor > > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what I > see > > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > > It is simply something that occurred to me with > > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > > Do you need take offense? > > > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > > like this long enough to know that a little > > time brings a different point of view. > > > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > > with that person for a while. You say you have > > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > > seems like there is no point. > > > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > > > > Bill > > > Bill....sorry for having taken offense, which admittedly I did. And > you are correct in that the Buddha, Lao tsu, Confucious, most of the > Sufi mystics in their beautiful poetry (although I'm not so sure on > Muhammed himself),most of the dielectic Philosophers of the Western > Enlightenment and beyond,most of the Chinese and Japanese > philosophers and sages, most of the Hindu vedantists. advaitists, > mythologists etc. etc., have all spoken of and to the Golden Rule. > They have all called us to bear witness to the importance of > forgiveness as well. But whereas I may turn my cheek 70 x 70 times to > the insults and figurative rocks thrown at me, or others as I watch, > I need not FORGET and I need not remain mute. I have stated any > number of times that my intent was as a mirror and was indeed > slightful and coarse in kind. I have stated time and again that this > behaviour was for the very good of the target of my reflecting > insults. But the insulting condescentions continue and thereby my > reactive attempts at corrections will continue. I admire your > patience and regard your working with the deluded as indeed a > contributing factor in your ability to handle the unacceptable > behaviour of whom we now speak. I will not leave off..that is not my > style or form as regards trying to communicate what I believe is in > the best interests of anyone. Forgiveness is easy Bill. Conversion to > truth as best as I am able see it, is not. This has no bearing on my > wish for a better way of progress and communication with everyone > including that personage. With a promise to better contain the > harshness as perceived,I will just shut up now and hope for a better > day........bob > > > > Possibly, simply accepting everything for what it is a 'higher' truth than > the golden rule? When one embraces a rule of any kind as the 'right' way of > being, doesn't that imply that whoever doesn't follow this rule is wrong and > perhaps needs to be corrected for that? We could look on some of your responses, > Bob, as exactly that correction, so Bill calls for the golden rule, and the > two of you enforce it. I don't see what the problem is here. > > The way I see it, some are exploring various areas of resistance, and > there's nothing wrong with that. If somebody is offended, they are also exploring > resistance. If someone is being criticized, and that criticism results in them > seeing things in a new way, that's great too. I sometimes feel the need to > speak the truth even though I know it may offend. I know where that need is > coming from and so I don't judge anybody else in the process. That's the best I > can do. I don't, however, concern myself with the reactions or ego > sensitivities of others. That's their concern. From an ego perspective, I have no way > of knowing when my truth is best spoken, and when it's best to keep quiet, so > I follow my inner sense on that and let that, too, be what it is. > > Phil Exactly. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/3/2006 4:01:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:04:38 -0000 > > " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > Re: Basic Human Dignity > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > > > for drug use). > > > > > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > > > responds to that. > > > > > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule of > > doing > > > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving > your > > > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the Christ...had > had > > it > > > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the > Temple > > > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He stated > > that > > > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that > man > > had > > > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have HAD > IT. > > If > > > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and uppity > > > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above Christ > and > > nor > > > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with what > I > > see > > > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > > > > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > > > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > > > > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > > > It is simply something that occurred to me with > > > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > > > Do you need take offense? > > > > > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > > > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > > > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > > > > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > > > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > > > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > > > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > > > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > > > like this long enough to know that a little > > > time brings a different point of view. > > > > > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > > > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > > > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > > > with that person for a while. You say you have > > > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > > > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > > > seems like there is no point. > > > > > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > > > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > > > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > Bill....sorry for having taken offense, which admittedly I did. > And > > you are correct in that the Buddha, Lao tsu, Confucious, most of > the > > Sufi mystics in their beautiful poetry (although I'm not so sure > on > > Muhammed himself),most of the dielectic Philosophers of the > Western > > Enlightenment and beyond,most of the Chinese and Japanese > > philosophers and sages, most of the Hindu vedantists. advaitists, > > mythologists etc. etc., have all spoken of and to the Golden Rule. > > They have all called us to bear witness to the importance of > > forgiveness as well. But whereas I may turn my cheek 70 x 70 times > to > > the insults and figurative rocks thrown at me, or others as I > watch, > > I need not FORGET and I need not remain mute. I have stated any > > number of times that my intent was as a mirror and was indeed > > slightful and coarse in kind. I have stated time and again that > this > > behaviour was for the very good of the target of my reflecting > > insults. But the insulting condescentions continue and thereby my > > reactive attempts at corrections will continue. I admire your > > patience and regard your working with the deluded as indeed a > > contributing factor in your ability to handle the unacceptable > > behaviour of whom we now speak. I will not leave off..that is not > my > > style or form as regards trying to communicate what I believe is > in > > the best interests of anyone. Forgiveness is easy Bill. Conversion > to > > truth as best as I am able see it, is not. This has no bearing on > my > > wish for a better way of progress and communication with everyone > > including that personage. With a promise to better contain the > > harshness as perceived,I will just shut up now and hope for a > better > > day........bob > > > > > > > > Possibly, simply accepting everything for what it is a 'higher' > truth than > > the golden rule? When one embraces a rule of any kind as > the 'right' way of > > being, doesn't that imply that whoever doesn't follow this rule is > wrong and > > perhaps needs to be corrected for that? We could look on some of > your responses, > > Bob, as exactly that correction, so Bill calls for the golden > rule, and the > > two of you enforce it. I don't see what the problem is here. > > > > The way I see it, some are exploring various areas of resistance, > and > > there's nothing wrong with that. If somebody is offended, they are > also exploring > > resistance. If someone is being criticized, and that criticism > results in them > > seeing things in a new way, that's great too. I sometimes feel the > need to > > speak the truth even though I know it may offend. I know where that > need is > > coming from and so I don't judge anybody else in the process. > That's the best I > > can do. I don't, however, concern myself with the reactions or ego > > sensitivities of others. That's their concern. From an ego > perspective, I have no way > > of knowing when my truth is best spoken, and when it's best to > keep quiet, so > > I follow my inner sense on that and let that, too, be what it is. > > > > Phil > > > Exactly. > > Len > Exactly This or exactly That or exactly What? LOL .......bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Well said. And that " one always gets what one deserves " is a > > good way to look at it. > > > > My take on a perspective like that is that it doesn't matter > > so much whether it is true... it is clearly the most sane way > > to look at things... in my view anyway. > > > It comes down to taking full responsibilty for your own reactions, no > matter what happens. > > > > > > As for " live and let live " , there's a Buddhist notion of > > " ahimsa " ... meaning non-harming... that basically says the > > same thing. > > > > The thing about it for me is that it is more than just a > > practice of consideration and sensitivity to others as a > > spiritual practice. There is a very important practical > > aspect: So many times that I have been about to throw in > > the towel but hung in there one more time... and wow, there's > > a breakthrough. > > > > I've often looked back and seen where a time I exercised > > restraint was something I was very glad I had done. > > > > And I've can't seem to think of a time I've looked back at > > when I've " lost it " and thought, " Yeah, that was good I did > > that! " > > > > > > Bill > > > Yes, I understand. > On another hand, could there be something of control in this attitude? > > Len > To me there are what I call " flags " . Flags are things that remind me to stop and pay attention. So, for example, if I am starting to escalate emotionally, that could be a flag. If there is a sense of a " residue " , or some persistent emotional state, that could be a flag. It doesn't mean a reflex on " what to do " , it just means slow down, pay attention. So I don't see it as control in the sense you seem to mean. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/3/2006 4:01:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:04:38 -0000 > > > " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > > Re: Basic Human Dignity > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > As most of you know I work with mentally ill > > > > > > adults. With the ones I work with there is some > > > > > > hope of them returning to a non-institutional > > > > > > environment. The type of program is call " crisis > > > > > > residential " . They live on site while in the > > > > > > program, and their stay is intended to be relatively > > > > > > short term (1-3 months). They come to the program > > > > > > upon discharge from a mental hospital or jail. > > > > > > So they come into the program having recently > > > > > > experienced a major breakdown or arrest (typically > > > > > > for drug use). > > > > > > > > > > > > What the above means is that the clients in the > > > > > > program are very low in self-esteem. They've really > > > > > > hit the skids before coming there. My basic approach > > > > > > when working with them is to not see them in terms > > > > > > of their " diagnosis " , but rather... well, it is > > > > > > hard to say actually how I see them. But I treat > > > > > > them with complete human dignity. I treat them > > > > > > with the same sensitivity and consideration as I > > > > > > do with my own loved ones. And I find they really > > > > > > respond to that. If I am just being the pure > > > > > > vibration of truth as I stand before them, then > > > > > > it seems the pure vibration of truth *in them* > > > > > > responds to that. > > > > > > > > > > > > So it isn't about the words spoken, it is the > > > > > > *spirit* of the exchange. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking the other morning about a certain > > > > > > irony regarding this list. I notice some/(many?) > > > > > > participants here *not* showing basic sensitivity > > > > > > and consideration toward other of the members. This > > > > > > is supposedly a list oriented towards spiritual > > > > > > upliftment, towards profound spiritual values, > > > > > > and yet many of the interactions here are so far > > > > > > below what I consider treatment with basic human > > > > > > dignity. I'm talking, basically, about the > > > > > > Golden Rule here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, even the Greatest to enunciate the Golden Rule > of > > > doing > > > > > unto others as you would have them do unto you, and loving > > your > > > > > neighbor as yourself....The Nazerene who was the > Christ...had > > had > > > it > > > > > with the Philistines, Pharisees and Money Traders in the > > Temple > > > > > (where he most assuredly let be known his attitude). He > stated > > > that > > > > > if anyone would lead astray children or others..better that > > man > > > had > > > > > never been born. So excuse Me Bill..with SOME here I have > HAD > > IT. > > > If > > > > > you care to live in some fool's castle of illusion and > uppity > > > > > propriety..be my guest. But I don't level myself above > Christ > > and > > > nor > > > > > should you! Thanks for the innuendos and lectures and > > > > > insinuations.... but..NO THANK YOU SIR...I'll stick with > what > > I > > > see > > > > > as the right thing to do.............bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course stick with what you see is right. > > > > And why read in insinuations and innuendos? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry that you read what I said as a lecture. > > > > It is simply something that occurred to me with > > > > some irony, and it seemed appropriate to share. > > > > Do you need take offense? > > > > > > > > Jesus wasn't the only one to utter the Golden Rule > > > > was he? I believe it comes from a number of traditions. > > > > Certainly Buddha's teachings amount to the same. > > > > > > > > Aren't we here to learn from challenge? > > > > We don't *have* to read any particular person's > > > > postings. We can pick and choose. Sometimes > > > > someone's post in response to me will be a bit > > > > trying, shall we say? But I've been on lists > > > > like this long enough to know that a little > > > > time brings a different point of view. > > > > > > > > And sometimes it will seem that clear communication > > > > with a particular individual is pointless, so I > > > > will most likely leave off engaging in exchanges > > > > with that person for a while. You say you have > > > > HAD IT with some. Perhaps I would too, but I manage > > > > to avoid that by deciding to leave off when it > > > > seems like there is no point. > > > > > > > > And then too, perhaps my work with the mentally > > > > ill does give me a certain advantage in dealing with > > > > bizarre behavior! A possibility? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Bill....sorry for having taken offense, which admittedly I did. > > And > > > you are correct in that the Buddha, Lao tsu, Confucious, most of > > the > > > Sufi mystics in their beautiful poetry (although I'm not so sure > > on > > > Muhammed himself),most of the dielectic Philosophers of the > > Western > > > Enlightenment and beyond,most of the Chinese and Japanese > > > philosophers and sages, most of the Hindu vedantists. > advaitists, > > > mythologists etc. etc., have all spoken of and to the Golden > Rule. > > > They have all called us to bear witness to the importance of > > > forgiveness as well. But whereas I may turn my cheek 70 x 70 > times > > to > > > the insults and figurative rocks thrown at me, or others as I > > watch, > > > I need not FORGET and I need not remain mute. I have stated any > > > number of times that my intent was as a mirror and was indeed > > > slightful and coarse in kind. I have stated time and again that > > this > > > behaviour was for the very good of the target of my reflecting > > > insults. But the insulting condescentions continue and thereby > my > > > reactive attempts at corrections will continue. I admire your > > > patience and regard your working with the deluded as indeed a > > > contributing factor in your ability to handle the unacceptable > > > behaviour of whom we now speak. I will not leave off..that is > not > > my > > > style or form as regards trying to communicate what I believe is > > in > > > the best interests of anyone. Forgiveness is easy Bill. > Conversion > > to > > > truth as best as I am able see it, is not. This has no bearing on > > my > > > wish for a better way of progress and communication with > everyone > > > including that personage. With a promise to better contain the > > > harshness as perceived,I will just shut up now and hope for a > > better > > > day........bob > > > > > > > > > > > > Possibly, simply accepting everything for what it is a 'higher' > > truth than > > > the golden rule? When one embraces a rule of any kind as > > the 'right' way of > > > being, doesn't that imply that whoever doesn't follow this rule > is > > wrong and > > > perhaps needs to be corrected for that? We could look on some of > > your responses, > > > Bob, as exactly that correction, so Bill calls for the golden > > rule, and the > > > two of you enforce it. I don't see what the problem is here. > > > > > > The way I see it, some are exploring various areas of resistance, > > and > > > there's nothing wrong with that. If somebody is offended, they > are > > also exploring > > > resistance. If someone is being criticized, and that criticism > > results in them > > > seeing things in a new way, that's great too. I sometimes feel > the > > need to > > > speak the truth even though I know it may offend. I know where > that > > need is > > > coming from and so I don't judge anybody else in the process. > > That's the best I > > > can do. I don't, however, concern myself with the reactions or > ego > > > sensitivities of others. That's their concern. From an ego > > perspective, I have no way > > > of knowing when my truth is best spoken, and when it's best to > > keep quiet, so > > > I follow my inner sense on that and let that, too, be what it is. > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > Exactly. > > > > Len > > > Exactly This or exactly That or exactly What? LOL > .......bob > Just no rules. Everybody does what he does and this is what we must deal with. Both: agreement and resistance are good teachers. len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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