Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 [...] > What for Gods sake is a strenght of mind? > > Len > As a very simple example: Your [or my, our] mental strength is your ability to remain perfectly peaceful, happy, loving, clear, true, factual and intelligent in this conversations in spite of the other party expressing widely different or opposing point of view! When the criticism, ridicule, scorn, hate, abuses by others in conversation [or otherwise] don't disturb your inner peace and happiness, doesn't cause you annoyance, frustration, irritation, anger or hate and you remain perfectly peaceful, conscious, loving, clear, true, intelligent and factual in your interaction – you can be said to have mental strength. OTOH... when changes in external circumstances [such as people's behavior] easily disturb your inner peace and Happiness - you can be said to lack mental strength. .... As you can perhaps see this quality [Mental Strength] is greatly valuable in our day-to-day life! Some say [and I agree] that this is the gist of Spiritual Practice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > > What for Gods sake is a strenght of mind? > > > > Len > > > > > As a very simple example: > > Your [or my, our] mental strength is > your ability to remain perfectly > peaceful, happy, loving, clear, true, > factual and intelligent in this > conversations in spite of the other > party expressing widely different or > opposing point of view! > > > When the criticism, ridicule, scorn, > hate, abuses by others in conversation > [or otherwise] don't disturb your inner > peace and happiness, > > doesn't cause you annoyance, frustration, > irritation, anger or hate and > > you remain perfectly peaceful, conscious, > loving, clear, true, intelligent and factual > in your interaction – you can be said to > have mental strength. > > > OTOH... when changes in external circumstances > [such as people's behavior] easily > disturb your inner peace and Happiness > - you can be said to lack mental strength. > > ... > > As you can perhaps see this quality [Mental Strength] > is greatly valuable in our day-to-day life! > > Some say [and I agree] that this is the gist of Spiritual Practice! Yes, this is suppression. Sooner or later you will collapse. How soon, it depends on the strenght of your mind ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > What for Gods sake is a strenght of mind? > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > As a very simple example: > > > > Your [or my, our] mental strength is > > your ability to remain perfectly > > peaceful, happy, loving, clear, true, > > factual and intelligent in this > > conversations in spite of the other > > party expressing widely different or > > opposing point of view! > > > > > > When the criticism, ridicule, scorn, > > hate, abuses by others in conversation > > [or otherwise] don't disturb your inner > > peace and happiness, > > > > doesn't cause you annoyance, frustration, > > irritation, anger or hate and > > > > you remain perfectly peaceful, conscious, > > loving, clear, true, intelligent and factual > > in your interaction – you can be said to > > have mental strength. > > > > > > OTOH... when changes in external circumstances > > [such as people's behavior] easily > > disturb your inner peace and Happiness > > - you can be said to lack mental strength. > > > > ... > > > > As you can perhaps see this quality [Mental Strength] > > is greatly valuable in our day-to-day life! > > > > Some say [and I agree] that this is the gist of Spiritual Practice! > > > > > Yes, this is suppression. > Sooner or later you will collapse. > How soon, it depends on the strenght of your mind ;-) > > Len > If I have a desire to touch fire then there might be a question of suppression of that desire! But, if due to my existing understanding, I naturally don't have any desire to touch fire anymore; there is no question of suppression! Suppression is trying to repress or stop something by applying force. But, if a thought, emotion, feeling simply doesn't arise; there is no question of suppression. This can happen because its futility and harm is clearly seen and understood and, once that happens the desire itself slowly stops occurring on its own and that is not suppression! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > > wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > What for Gods sake is a strenght of mind? > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a very simple example: > > > > > > Your [or my, our] mental strength is > > > your ability to remain perfectly > > > peaceful, happy, loving, clear, true, > > > factual and intelligent in this > > > conversations in spite of the other > > > party expressing widely different or > > > opposing point of view! > > > > > > > > > When the criticism, ridicule, scorn, > > > hate, abuses by others in conversation > > > [or otherwise] don't disturb your inner > > > peace and happiness, > > > > > > doesn't cause you annoyance, frustration, > > > irritation, anger or hate and > > > > > > you remain perfectly peaceful, conscious, > > > loving, clear, true, intelligent and factual > > > in your interaction – you can be said to > > > have mental strength. > > > > > > > > > OTOH... when changes in external circumstances > > > [such as people's behavior] easily > > > disturb your inner peace and Happiness > > > - you can be said to lack mental strength. > > > > > > ... > > > > > > As you can perhaps see this quality [Mental Strength] > > > is greatly valuable in our day-to-day life! > > > > > > Some say [and I agree] that this is the gist of Spiritual > Practice! > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this is suppression. > > Sooner or later you will collapse. > > How soon, it depends on the strenght of your mind ;-) > > > > Len > > > > > If I have a desire to touch fire then > there might be a question of > suppression of that desire! > > But, if due to my existing > understanding, I naturally don't have > any desire to touch fire anymore; there > is no question of suppression! Take one more example... I have never smoked in my life and I don't like the smell of smoke or how it feels in my throat [second hand smoke]. It even makes me cough... and, I don't have any desire to smoke... and, I don't even try to 'suppress' it! I simply don't have any such desire! I also have friends who used to smoke before and then stopped and haven't smoked in years! For them, desire did occur when they tried to stop smoking but slowly desire started occurring less and less and about 6 months later it stopped altogether... Now, they don't smoke and they don't think they need to 'suppress' it anymore! That desire is simply not there! > > > Suppression is trying to repress or > stop something by applying force. But, > if a thought, emotion, feeling simply > doesn't arise; there is no question of > suppression. > > This can happen because its futility > and harm is clearly seen and understood > > and, once that happens the desire > itself slowly stops occurring on its > own and that is not suppression! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > > wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > What for Gods sake is a strenght of mind? > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a very simple example: > > > > > > Your [or my, our] mental strength is > > > your ability to remain perfectly > > > peaceful, happy, loving, clear, true, > > > factual and intelligent in this > > > conversations in spite of the other > > > party expressing widely different or > > > opposing point of view! > > > > > > > > > When the criticism, ridicule, scorn, > > > hate, abuses by others in conversation > > > [or otherwise] don't disturb your inner > > > peace and happiness, > > > > > > doesn't cause you annoyance, frustration, > > > irritation, anger or hate and > > > > > > you remain perfectly peaceful, conscious, > > > loving, clear, true, intelligent and factual > > > in your interaction – you can be said to > > > have mental strength. > > > > > > > > > OTOH... when changes in external circumstances > > > [such as people's behavior] easily > > > disturb your inner peace and Happiness > > > - you can be said to lack mental strength. > > > > > > ... > > > > > > As you can perhaps see this quality [Mental Strength] > > > is greatly valuable in our day-to-day life! > > > > > > Some say [and I agree] that this is the gist of Spiritual > Practice! > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this is suppression. > > Sooner or later you will collapse. > > How soon, it depends on the strenght of your mind ;-) > > > > Len > > > > > If I have a desire to touch fire then > there might be a question of > suppression of that desire! > > But, if due to my existing > understanding, I naturally don't have > any desire to touch fire anymore; there > is no question of suppression! > > > Suppression is trying to repress or > stop something by applying force. But, > if a thought, emotion, feeling simply > doesn't arise; there is no question of > suppression. > > This can happen because its futility > and harm is clearly seen and understood > > and, once that happens the desire > itself slowly stops occurring on its > own and that is not suppression! Yes, and to see that you definitely don't need strenght of any kind. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > What for Gods sake is a strenght of mind? > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a very simple example: > > > > > > > > Your [or my, our] mental strength is > > > > your ability to remain perfectly > > > > peaceful, happy, loving, clear, true, > > > > factual and intelligent in this > > > > conversations in spite of the other > > > > party expressing widely different or > > > > opposing point of view! > > > > > > > > > > > > When the criticism, ridicule, scorn, > > > > hate, abuses by others in conversation > > > > [or otherwise] don't disturb your inner > > > > peace and happiness, > > > > > > > > doesn't cause you annoyance, frustration, > > > > irritation, anger or hate and > > > > > > > > you remain perfectly peaceful, conscious, > > > > loving, clear, true, intelligent and factual > > > > in your interaction – you can be said to > > > > have mental strength. > > > > > > > > > > > > OTOH... when changes in external circumstances > > > > [such as people's behavior] easily > > > > disturb your inner peace and Happiness > > > > - you can be said to lack mental strength. > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > As you can perhaps see this quality [Mental Strength] > > > > is greatly valuable in our day-to-day life! > > > > > > > > Some say [and I agree] that this is the gist of Spiritual > > Practice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this is suppression. > > > Sooner or later you will collapse. > > > How soon, it depends on the strenght of your mind ;-) > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > If I have a desire to touch fire then > > there might be a question of > > suppression of that desire! > > > > But, if due to my existing > > understanding, I naturally don't have > > any desire to touch fire anymore; there > > is no question of suppression! > > > Take one more example... > > I have never smoked in my life and I > don't like the smell of smoke or how it > feels in my throat [second hand smoke]. > It even makes me cough... > > and, I don't have any desire to smoke... > > and, I don't even try to 'suppress' > it! I simply don't have any such desire! > > > > I also have friends who used to smoke > before and then stopped and haven't > smoked in years! For them, desire did > occur when they tried to stop smoking > but slowly desire started occurring less > and less and about 6 months later it > stopped altogether... > > Now, they don't smoke and they don't > think they need to 'suppress' it anymore! > That desire is simply not there! Yes, and for this reason they don't need strenght. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 [...] > > > If I have a desire to touch fire then > > > there might be a question of > > > suppression of that desire! > > > > > > But, if due to my existing > > > understanding, I naturally don't have > > > any desire to touch fire anymore; there > > > is no question of suppression! > > > > > > Take one more example... > > > > I have never smoked in my life and I > > don't like the smell of smoke or how it > > feels in my throat [second hand smoke]. > > It even makes me cough... > > > > and, I don't have any desire to smoke... > > > > and, I don't even try to 'suppress' > > it! I simply don't have any such desire! > > > > > > > > I also have friends who used to smoke > > before and then stopped and haven't > > smoked in years! For them, desire did > > occur when they tried to stop smoking > > but slowly desire started occurring less > > and less and about 6 months later it > > stopped altogether... > > > > Now, they don't smoke and they don't > > think they need to 'suppress' it anymore! > > That desire is simply not there! > > > Yes, and for this reason they don't need strenght. > > Len > If we consider the example of example of 'giving up smoking'... the 'strength of mind' might become clear to us. Many people have tried to give up smoking [as well as many other addictions]. Some have succeeded. Some have failed. Those who have succeeded in general can be said to have greater Strength Of Mind. Many people have gave up smoking [or other addictions] and hen have gotten it back again. Many have given it up and then have remained completely free of that addiction. Those who have succeeded in this case too in general can be said to have greater Strength Of Mind. Same thing applies to the eliminations of other addictive tendencies of mind [wrong ego based thinking, repetitive useless negative thinking, repetitive useless daydreaming, repetitive useless worries, fear] and then staying *free* once those are successfully eliminated! Many try, some succeed... many try, some succeed... even after knowing the error, harm and futility of those mental tendencies [as many smokers and other addicts fail to give up their addiction ins spite of learning about its harm]. Those who succeed can be said to have greater 'strength of mind'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > > > > > If I have a desire to touch fire then > > > > there might be a question of > > > > suppression of that desire! > > > > > > > > But, if due to my existing > > > > understanding, I naturally don't have > > > > any desire to touch fire anymore; there > > > > is no question of suppression! > > > > > > > > > Take one more example... > > > > > > I have never smoked in my life and I > > > don't like the smell of smoke or how it > > > feels in my throat [second hand smoke]. > > > It even makes me cough... > > > > > > and, I don't have any desire to smoke... > > > > > > and, I don't even try to 'suppress' > > > it! I simply don't have any such desire! > > > > > > > > > > > > I also have friends who used to smoke > > > before and then stopped and haven't > > > smoked in years! For them, desire did > > > occur when they tried to stop smoking > > > but slowly desire started occurring less > > > and less and about 6 months later it > > > stopped altogether... > > > > > > Now, they don't smoke and they don't > > > think they need to 'suppress' it anymore! > > > That desire is simply not there! > > > > > > Yes, and for this reason they don't need strenght. > > > > Len > > > > > If we consider the example of example > of 'giving up smoking'... the 'strength > of mind' might become clear to us. > > Many people have tried to give up > smoking [as well as many other > addictions]. Some have succeeded. Some > have failed. > > Those who have succeeded in general > can be said to have greater Strength Of > Mind. > > Many people have gave up smoking [or > other addictions] and hen have gotten > it back again. Many have given it up > and then have remained completely free > of that addiction. > > Those who have succeeded in this case > too in general can be said to have > greater Strength Of Mind. > > > Same thing applies to the eliminations > of other addictive tendencies of mind > [wrong ego based thinking, repetitive > useless negative thinking, repetitive > useless daydreaming, repetitive useless > worries, fear] and then staying *free* > once those are successfully eliminated! > > > Many try, some succeed... > > many try, some succeed... even after > knowing the error, harm and futility of > those mental tendencies [as many > smokers and other addicts fail to give > up their addiction ins spite of > learning about its harm]. > > > Those who succeed can be said to have > greater 'strength of mind'! This shows again that the mental strenght you talk about is the ego- power. A strong ego can indeed suppress emotions, reactions, needs. This suppression can be sometimes meaningful and necessary, like for instance when you´re affraid your emotions may make you commit a murder, or when you´re terribly angry with your wife but you sit in a middle of a meeting, so you finish the meeting first before geeting an outburst :-) So this ego-capacity can indeed be very useful. But on longer term suppression cannot free you from your emotional conflicts. Only understanding of the whole structure of conflict can really end it, and you don´t need strenght to do that. It´s the opposite, the strenght, judging, suppressing and controlling your reaction disturbs the direct perception which you need to understand the whole movement. The strenght of mind could be useful when you want to quit smoking, because the craving for a cigarette, like for every other drug is very strong during first weeks/months. So the temporary suppression of the craving can be useful. But what ego-power cannot help you with is the unerstanding of the deeper causes which create the need of having something " calming " to suck at ;-) One may stay away from cigarettes, but if the deeper cause isn´t understood, one will develop other (maybe less harmful for the body) habits (meditation?, following a guru? ;-)) len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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