Guest guest Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 " Me " is an abstraction. " Self " is an abstraction. " World " is an abstraction. " Enlightenment " is an abstraction. Even " peace " is an abstraction. Abstractions are part of conditioning. If experience is *characterized by* an abstraction then experience is conditioned. Can experience be unconditioned? Can there be experience that is not punctuated, divided, defined by abstractions? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > " Me " is an abstraction. > " Self " is an abstraction. > " World " is an abstraction. > " Enlightenment " is an abstraction. > Even " peace " is an abstraction. > > Abstractions are part of conditioning. > > If experience is *characterized by* an > abstraction then experience is conditioned. > > Can experience be unconditioned? > Can there be experience that is not punctuated, > divided, defined by abstractions? > > > Bill .....no, don't think so maybe " silence " is unconditioned (experience) Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > " Me " is an abstraction. > > " Self " is an abstraction. > > " World " is an abstraction. > > " Enlightenment " is an abstraction. > > Even " peace " is an abstraction. > > > > Abstractions are part of conditioning. > > > > If experience is *characterized by* an > > abstraction then experience is conditioned. > > > > Can experience be unconditioned? > > Can there be experience that is not punctuated, > > divided, defined by abstractions? > > > > > > Bill > > > ....no, don't think so > > maybe " silence " is unconditioned (experience) > > Marc > Do abstractions necessarily entail words? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > " Me " is an abstraction. > > > " Self " is an abstraction. > > > " World " is an abstraction. > > > " Enlightenment " is an abstraction. > > > Even " peace " is an abstraction. > > > > > > Abstractions are part of conditioning. > > > > > > If experience is *characterized by* an > > > abstraction then experience is conditioned. > > > > > > Can experience be unconditioned? > > > Can there be experience that is not punctuated, > > > divided, defined by abstractions? > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > ....no, don't think so > > > > maybe " silence " is unconditioned (experience) > > > > Marc > > > > Do abstractions necessarily entail words? > > Bill are there words in " silence " ? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > " Me " is an abstraction. > > > > " Self " is an abstraction. > > > > " World " is an abstraction. > > > > " Enlightenment " is an abstraction. > > > > Even " peace " is an abstraction. > > > > > > > > Abstractions are part of conditioning. > > > > > > > > If experience is *characterized by* an > > > > abstraction then experience is conditioned. > > > > > > > > Can experience be unconditioned? > > > > Can there be experience that is not punctuated, > > > > divided, defined by abstractions? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > ....no, don't think so > > > > > > maybe " silence " is unconditioned (experience) > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > Do abstractions necessarily entail words? > > > > Bill > > > are there words in " silence " ? > > Marc > Of course not. So what I am getting at is: are there abstractions in silence? And then we get into what kind of silence we are talking about... Maybe we can get by with a capital 'S': Are there abstractions is Silence? I was leading up to that question with the question: Are there abstractions without words? Which I ask again. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " Me " is an abstraction. > > > > > " Self " is an abstraction. > > > > > " World " is an abstraction. > > > > > " Enlightenment " is an abstraction. > > > > > Even " peace " is an abstraction. > > > > > > > > > > Abstractions are part of conditioning. > > > > > > > > > > If experience is *characterized by* an > > > > > abstraction then experience is conditioned. > > > > > > > > > > Can experience be unconditioned? > > > > > Can there be experience that is not punctuated, > > > > > divided, defined by abstractions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > ....no, don't think so > > > > > > > > maybe " silence " is unconditioned (experience) > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > Do abstractions necessarily entail words? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > are there words in " silence " ? > > > > Marc > > > > Of course not. So what I am getting at is: > are there abstractions in silence? > > And then we get into what kind of silence > we are talking about... > > Maybe we can get by with a capital 'S': > > Are there abstractions is Silence? > > I was leading up to that question with the question: > > Are there abstractions without words? > > Which I ask again. > > Bill seem to be an important question for you.... look like an investigation to....nowhere....again..... there is only one " Silence " ..... it's the unconditional pure, whole, free and liberated being.... so there are no abstractions in/of " Silence " .....a shadow change and move constantly with (moving) sun....... the shadow is not the sun....and will never be Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " Me " is an abstraction. > > > > > > " Self " is an abstraction. > > > > > > " World " is an abstraction. > > > > > > " Enlightenment " is an abstraction. > > > > > > Even " peace " is an abstraction. > > > > > > > > > > > > Abstractions are part of conditioning. > > > > > > > > > > > > If experience is *characterized by* an > > > > > > abstraction then experience is conditioned. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can experience be unconditioned? > > > > > > Can there be experience that is not punctuated, > > > > > > divided, defined by abstractions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....no, don't think so > > > > > > > > > > maybe " silence " is unconditioned (experience) > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do abstractions necessarily entail words? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > are there words in " silence " ? > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > Of course not. So what I am getting at is: > > are there abstractions in silence? > > > > And then we get into what kind of silence > > we are talking about... > > > > Maybe we can get by with a capital 'S': > > > > Are there abstractions is Silence? > > > > I was leading up to that question with the question: > > > > Are there abstractions without words? > > > > Which I ask again. > > > > Bill > > > seem to be an important question for you.... I find it an interesting question... > look like an investigation to....nowhere....again..... > > there is only one " Silence " ..... > it's the unconditional pure, whole, free and liberated being.... > > so there are no abstractions in/of " Silence " yes... of course and is " Silence " different from Now? I already know you will say it is the same. putting it all together: abstractions inherently divide. experience *as through* the lens of an abstraction, *any* abstraction, is inherently dual. so the nondual, Now, is experience that is not punctuated, divided, defined by any abstraction... Bill > > > ....a shadow change and move constantly with (moving) sun....... > the shadow is not the sun....and will never be > > Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 On Apr 7, 2006, at 2:55 AM, Nisargadatta wrote: >>>>> " Me " is an abstraction. >>>>> " Self " is an abstraction. >>>>> " World " is an abstraction. >>>>> " Enlightenment " is an abstraction. >>>>> Even " peace " is an abstraction. >>>>> >>>>> Abstractions are part of conditioning. >>>>> >>>>> If experience is *characterized by* an >>>>> abstraction then experience is conditioned. >>>>> >>>>> Can experience be unconditioned? >>>>> Can there be experience that is not punctuated, >>>>> divided, defined by abstractions? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Bill >>>> >>>> >>>> ....no, don't think so >>>> >>>> maybe " silence " is unconditioned (experience) >>>> >>>> Marc >>>> >>> >>> Do abstractions necessarily entail words? >>> >>> Bill >> >> >> are there words in " silence " ? >> >> Marc >> > > Of course not. So what I am getting at is: > are there abstractions in silence? > > And then we get into what kind of silence > we are talking about... > > Maybe we can get by with a capital 'S': > > Are there abstractions is Silence? > > I was leading up to that question with the question: > > Are there abstractions without words? > > Which I ask again. > > Bill > > P:Words are symbols. No one has problems with the symbol " dog " which points to that pet. The word " sad " is a little more problematic, because it points to something subjective. If someone says, " I'm sad, " probably her face is more expressive than the word. Now the word " truth " is abstract because it points only to more words. So there can't be any abstraction without words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: > > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 2:55 AM, Nisargadatta wrote: > > >>>>> " Me " is an abstraction. > >>>>> " Self " is an abstraction. > >>>>> " World " is an abstraction. > >>>>> " Enlightenment " is an abstraction. > >>>>> Even " peace " is an abstraction. > >>>>> > >>>>> Abstractions are part of conditioning. > >>>>> > >>>>> If experience is *characterized by* an > >>>>> abstraction then experience is conditioned. > >>>>> > >>>>> Can experience be unconditioned? > >>>>> Can there be experience that is not punctuated, > >>>>> divided, defined by abstractions? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Bill > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ....no, don't think so > >>>> > >>>> maybe " silence " is unconditioned (experience) > >>>> > >>>> Marc > >>>> > >>> > >>> Do abstractions necessarily entail words? > >>> > >>> Bill > >> > >> > >> are there words in " silence " ? > >> > >> Marc > >> > > > > Of course not. So what I am getting at is: > > are there abstractions in silence? > > > > And then we get into what kind of silence > > we are talking about... > > > > Maybe we can get by with a capital 'S': > > > > Are there abstractions is Silence? > > > > I was leading up to that question with the question: > > > > Are there abstractions without words? > > > > Which I ask again. > > > > Bill > > > > > > P:Words are symbols. No one has > problems with the symbol " dog " which points > to that pet. The word " sad " is a little more > problematic, because it points to something > subjective. If someone says, " I'm sad, " probably > her face is more expressive than the word. > > Now the word " truth " is abstract because it > points only to more words. So there can't > be any abstraction without words. > I have had mathematical ideas that didn't have words. I have had poems come to me, which I understood in a flash, though they were *not yet clothed in words*. But I am unsure whether to call those " abstractions " . An abstraction is something that is *applied* to other things, it is a model, a template, a category. It is not an abstraction unless it has *application* to something. And to do that it has to have words, it has to be able to be " referred to " . So I guess I just answered my own question. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5@> wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 2:55 AM, Nisargadatta wrote: > > > > >>>>> " Me " is an abstraction. > > >>>>> " Self " is an abstraction. > > >>>>> " World " is an abstraction. > > >>>>> " Enlightenment " is an abstraction. > > >>>>> Even " peace " is an abstraction. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Abstractions are part of conditioning. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> If experience is *characterized by* an > > >>>>> abstraction then experience is conditioned. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Can experience be unconditioned? > > >>>>> Can there be experience that is not punctuated, > > >>>>> divided, defined by abstractions? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Bill > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> ....no, don't think so > > >>>> > > >>>> maybe " silence " is unconditioned (experience) > > >>>> > > >>>> Marc > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> Do abstractions necessarily entail words? > > >>> > > >>> Bill > > >> > > >> > > >> are there words in " silence " ? > > >> > > >> Marc > > >> > > > > > > Of course not. So what I am getting at is: > > > are there abstractions in silence? > > > > > > And then we get into what kind of silence > > > we are talking about... > > > > > > Maybe we can get by with a capital 'S': > > > > > > Are there abstractions is Silence? > > > > > > I was leading up to that question with the question: > > > > > > Are there abstractions without words? > > > > > > Which I ask again. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > P:Words are symbols. No one has > > problems with the symbol " dog " which points > > to that pet. The word " sad " is a little more > > problematic, because it points to something > > subjective. If someone says, " I'm sad, " probably > > her face is more expressive than the word. > > > > Now the word " truth " is abstract because it > > points only to more words. So there can't > > be any abstraction without words. > > > > I have had mathematical ideas that didn't have > words. I have had poems come to me, which > I understood in a flash, though they were > *not yet clothed in words*. > > But I am unsure whether to call those " abstractions " . > An abstraction is something that is *applied* > to other things, it is a model, a template, > a category. It is not an abstraction unless it > has *application* to something. And to do that > it has to have words, it has to be able to be > " referred to " . > > > So I guess I just answered my own question. > > Bill > I find myself doing that a lot of the time. That's OK though. I't just when I start bringing other me's into the picture(besides the questioner and answerer), that it get's a little dicey. Like the guy that asks what we two guys are talking about. Now THAT guy is scary(almost as much as his rhymes sake ...arry). ;-) .....bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.