Guest guest Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Suffering is a 'potential' in the body-mind. Pain is a 'possibility', just like mental conflict is, depression is, fear is, hatred is, jealousy is, and greed is. But, just because it is 'possible' to suffer, doesn't mean you have to! Just because you have a match box or a gun in your house, doesn't mean you have to burn your house or kill someone. To " Not " burn and kill, it is often " Not " necessary to get rid of fire and killing 'potential'. Simple understanding and consciousness might be enough. We already know that not everybody suffers from same amount of jealousy, greed, depression or ...mental pain. We also know that not everybody shows the same fear, anger, jealousy, 'unconsciousness', 'mental pain', 'mental suffering', 'hatred', in response to same or similar events. In fact, many people have demonstrated to be quite efficient, effective and productive in dealing with same situations without going trough the same amount of mental trauma, suffering and pain of ...depression, jealousy, greed, fear, hatred, anger, conflict that many other people do. Many are in fact, even able to unlearn the old 'conditioning' and learn a new attitude to act (or just stay) in the same scenario without needing to create the same 'mental suffering' or 'mental pain' anymore. Incredibly, they are often able to do it without losing their ability to act and respond in any way. In fact, in many cases, their ability to respond and act increases! They unlearn the old resistance, conflict and pain producing conditioning and learn to " SEE " - observe the situation clearly without much mental labeling. They learn to act out of " Acceptance " , " Consciousness " , " Presence " and " Stillness " . Not only that, they are now, able to remain poised, calm, joyous, happy and free of reactivity and 'mental conflict' but they do so without losing any ability to act! Even those who are not attentive, present or conscious see their suffering disappear completely in " DEEP SLEEP " , every Night! Incredibly, the situation is still exactly the same as it was! ...just, they are not present to 'create' the suffering anymore. Their " suffering producing " facility has been put to rest. Some people even try to temporarily achieve it chemically by ingesting ...alcohols, drugs etc. Just few drops, a few glands dulled, few signal sending neuron temporarily dulled and ...phew, no more suffering! Even though, situation is exactly same. First peek in enlightenment is like going into Deep Sleep state, 'consciously'. You See that all your suffering, pain, conflict simply doesn't exist! As you start to be more and more conscious and get more and more in tune with the body, mind and emotions, you literally see yourself 'producing' pain and suffering! You see a thought and immediately you feel a signal, twitch, a prick, a pinch, few drop of burning chemical (hormone) dropping in the blood and, hey, you have succeeded, you have been able to SUCCESSFULLY create Pain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 >> First peek in enlightenment is like going into Deep Sleep state, 'consciously'. You See that all your suffering, pain, conflict simply doesn't exist! >>As you start to be more and more conscious and get more and more in tune with the body, mind and emotions, you literally see yourself 'producing' pain and suffering! You see a thought and immediately you feel a signal, twitch, a prick, a pinch, few drop of burning chemical (hormone) dropping in the blood and, hey, you have succeeded, you have been able to SUCCESSFULLY create Pain! ... Many others, who are not that Conscious know it too. They try not to think and talk about things that they 'think' causes them pain. When they are busy totally absorbed playing a sport, listening to great music, surrounded by great beauty, talking to someone, watching some entertaining movie and there is NO suffering in those moments! Any time, they are not 'available' to 'create pain', there is No Pain! Difference is that in the place of getting into the " root " of the creation of suffering and understanding it, they merely try to 'escape' facing it. And, then, come back, and 'start' thinking about those seemingly 'painful' things again and here comes the pain! and it is easy to see, " WHO " started it and how! A peek at enlightenment shows the falsity and non-existence of problems, pain and suffering (among the falsity and non-existence of other things). It shows the world merely as a play, a drama, a creation of outgoing energy. It shows that there is no bondage, slavery, or imprisonment. You create your world, even if, you create it so unconsciously, so 'automatically' that you don't even realize it. You create your 'world', bondage, suffering and many other things by going out. Sometimes through 'desires', sometimes through 'attachment' and sometimes just as an expression, a flow of radiant happy content energy. Situations can't by themselves create miseries as can clearly be seen by deep sleep, no mind, no thought. Even meditating about them doesn't. But, labeling them as 'bad' gives a signal to the brain, and brain and body together do what they can do to 'represent' bad. You 'resist', you divide yourself into two one WHICH IS and the 'other' which is fighting it. Enlightenment doesn't terminate the 'suffering creating' abilities. It shows the un-necessity of them. You see that the " End of Suffering " is not only possible but that in fact, there is " NO " suffering unless you make an effort to create it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 >>Enlightenment doesn't terminate the 'suffering creating' abilities. It shows the un-necessity of them. You see that the " End of Suffering " is not only possible but that in fact, there is " NO " suffering unless you make an effort to create it! ... Consciously entering this " Land of No Problems " is a radical realization. For many, it seems like a death as there is NO problematic 'me' that they have always had. For many, it is a great relief, a bliss beyond bliss and everything else seems very pale and insignificant. They have tasted freedom, and they are not going to bother to create stories, no matter what. Even if it meant leaving job, society, home, sitting on park benches or in caves. Examples include Ramana and Tolle and possibly many, many more who lived and died in complete oblivion. For many others, it is 'learning' to live, all over again! They have been through a constantly tormented existence. Now, thy have tasted the freedom, bliss, the uncaused happiness. They are still ready to engage in the world, but not at the cost of losing inherent peace and stillness! But that requires a whole new learning. For some it takes years and they call it settling down! Essentially, almost the entire conditioning of the mind, possibly even the circuitry of brain needs to be reworked, rewired to act, but, free of pain. But, there are also others who fall out. They get a peek and then come back, thinking, oh, now I am realized, enlightened, awakened, all done, all over nothing more... But, remember, bondage creating circuitry and conditioning is sill very much in place ...Some turn back thinking that the 'peek' has already destroyed it and it can't come back ...others come back thinking, ...there is no other possibility. Some of them even start blaming Buddha and Ramana and start calling them fake, misleading as in end of suffering, end of conditioning, ...or 're-conditioning' is Not Possible. However ...they have not been conscious, attentive and present enough to let body-mind learn to operate in peace and harmony. Further, they are not even thinking logically. [When Unconscious] You create suffering... [when Conscious] you CAN Avoid creating suffering! What can be Simpler...? Initially, your mind might still work on the same patterns. You are conscious, so you catch it and bring it back. Mind learns, as the de-conditioning starts. It might take some time, it might require sacrifices. And, who can say that Ramana, Tolle, Buddha and many other 'unknowns' made no sacrifices. Sacrifices that were insignificant, trivial to them because of the bliss of unconditional freedom but still sacrifices from the external 'worldly' perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 --- Adithya K <adithya_comming a écrit : >> First peek in enlightenment is like going into Deep Sleep state, 'consciously'. You See that all your suffering, pain, conflict simply doesn't exist! >>As you start to be more and more conscious and get more and more in tune with the body, mind and emotions, you literally see yourself 'producing' pain and suffering! You see a thought and immediately you feel a signal, twitch, a prick, a pinch, few drop of burning chemical (hormone) dropping in the blood and, hey, you have succeeded, you have been able to SUCCESSFULLY create Pain! ... Many others, who are not that Conscious know it too. They try not to think and talk about things that they 'think' causes them pain. When they are busy totally absorbed playing a sport, listening to great music, surrounded by great beauty, talking to someone, watching some entertaining movie and there is NO suffering in those moments! Any time, they are not 'available' to 'create pain', there is No Pain! Difference is that in the place of getting into the " root " of the creation of suffering and understanding it, they merely try to 'escape' facing it. And, then, come back, and 'start' thinking about those seemingly 'painful' things again and here comes the pain! and it is easy to see, " WHO " started it and how! A peek at enlightenment shows the falsity and non-existence of problems, pain and suffering (among the falsity and non-existence of other things). It shows the world merely as a play, a drama, a creation of outgoing energy. It shows that there is no bondage, slavery, or imprisonment. You create your world, even if, you create it so unconsciously, so 'automatically' that you don't even realize it. You create your 'world', bondage, suffering and many other things by going out. Sometimes through 'desires', sometimes through 'attachment' and sometimes just as an expression, a flow of radiant happy content energy. Situations can't by themselves create miseries as can clearly be seen by deep sleep, no mind, no thought. Even meditating about them doesn't. But, labeling them as 'bad' gives a signal to the brain, and brain and body together do what they can do to 'represent' bad. You 'resist', you divide yourself into two one WHICH IS and the 'other' which is fighting it. Enlightenment doesn't terminate the 'suffering creating' abilities. It shows the un-necessity of them. You see that the " End of Suffering " is not only possible but that in fact, there is " NO " suffering unless you make an effort to create it! ................................................................................. <You See that all your suffering, pain, conflict simply doesn't exist! > Well, I see that my pain and my thundering emotions exists when I resist them. Otherwise there is no <pain>...but something powerful alright. Patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 --- Adithya K <adithya_comming a écrit : >> First peek in enlightenment is like going into Deep Sleep state, 'consciously'. You See that all your suffering, pain, conflict simply doesn't exist! >>As you start to be more and more conscious and get more and more in tune with the body, mind and emotions, you literally see yourself 'producing' pain and suffering! You see a thought and immediately you feel a signal, twitch, a prick, a pinch, few drop of burning chemical (hormone) dropping in the blood and, hey, you have succeeded, you have been able to SUCCESSFULLY create Pain! ... Many others, who are not that Conscious know it too. They try not to think and talk about things that they 'think' causes them pain. When they are busy totally absorbed playing a sport, listening to great music, surrounded by great beauty, talking to someone, watching some entertaining movie and there is NO suffering in those moments! Any time, they are not 'available' to 'create pain', there is No Pain! Difference is that in the place of getting into the " root " of the creation of suffering and understanding it, they merely try to 'escape' facing it. And, then, come back, and 'start' thinking about those seemingly 'painful' things again and here comes the pain! and it is easy to see, " WHO " started it and how! A peek at enlightenment shows the falsity and non-existence of problems, pain and suffering (among the falsity and non-existence of other things). It shows the world merely as a play, a drama, a creation of outgoing energy. It shows that there is no bondage, slavery, or imprisonment. You create your world, even if, you create it so unconsciously, so 'automatically' that you don't even realize it. You create your 'world', bondage, suffering and many other things by going out. Sometimes through 'desires', sometimes through 'attachment' and sometimes just as an expression, a flow of radiant happy content energy. Situations can't by themselves create miseries as can clearly be seen by deep sleep, no mind, no thought. Even meditating about them doesn't. But, labeling them as 'bad' gives a signal to the brain, and brain and body together do what they can do to 'represent' bad. You 'resist', you divide yourself into two one WHICH IS and the 'other' which is fighting it. Enlightenment doesn't terminate the 'suffering creating' abilities. It shows the un-necessity of them. You see that the " End of Suffering " is not only possible but that in fact, there is " NO " suffering unless you make an effort to create it! ................................................................................. <You See that all your suffering, pain, conflict simply doesn't exist! > Well, I see that my pain and my thundering emotions exists when I resist them. Otherwise there is no <pain>...but something powerful alright. Patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 --- Adithya K <adithya_comming a écrit : >>Enlightenment doesn't terminate the 'suffering creating' abilities. It shows the un-necessity of them. You see that the " End of Suffering " is not only possible but that in fact, there is " NO " suffering unless you make an effort to create it! ... Consciously entering this " Land of No Problems " is a radical realization. For many, it seems like a death as there is NO problematic 'me' that they have always had. For many, it is a great relief, a bliss beyond bliss and everything else seems very pale and insignificant. They have tasted freedom, and they are not going to bother to create stories, no matter what. Even if it meant leaving job, society, home, sitting on park benches or in caves. Examples include Ramana and Tolle and possibly many, many more who lived and died in complete oblivion. For many others, it is 'learning' to live, all over again! They have been through a constantly tormented existence. Now, thy have tasted the freedom, bliss, the uncaused happiness. They are still ready to engage in the world, but not at the cost of losing inherent peace and stillness! But that requires a whole new learning. For some it takes years and they call it settling down! Essentially, almost the entire conditioning of the mind, possibly even the circuitry of brain needs to be reworked, rewired to act, but, free of pain. But, there are also others who fall out. They get a peek and then come back, thinking, oh, now I am realized, enlightened, awakened, all done, all over nothing more... But, remember, bondage creating circuitry and conditioning is sill very much in place ...Some turn back thinking that the 'peek' has already destroyed it and it can't come back ...others come back thinking, ...there is no other possibility. Some of them even start blaming Buddha and Ramana and start calling them fake, misleading as in end of suffering, end of conditioning, ...or 're-conditioning' is Not Possible. However ...they have not been conscious, attentive and present enough to let body-mind learn to operate in peace and harmony. Further, they are not even thinking logically. [When Unconscious] You create suffering... [when Conscious] you CAN Avoid creating suffering! What can be Simpler...? Initially, your mind might still work on the same patterns. You are conscious, so you catch it and bring it back. Mind learns, as the de-conditioning starts. It might take some time, it might require sacrifices. And, who can say that Ramana, Tolle, Buddha and many other 'unknowns' made no sacrifices. Sacrifices that were insignificant, trivial to them because of the bliss of unconditional freedom but still sacrifices from the external 'worldly' perspective. .................................... so many wonderful points!! About the recircuiting of the mind in the right direction, it is not just the mind that is changed and renewed. On an atomic level, the entire cell system undergoes a change. That is the natural consequence of a mutating consciousness Patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > --- Adithya K <adithya_comming a écrit : > > > > >>Enlightenment doesn't terminate the 'suffering > creating' abilities. It > shows the un-necessity of them. You see that the " End > of Suffering " is > not only possible but that in fact, there is " NO " > suffering unless you > make an effort to create it! > > ... > > Consciously entering this " Land of No Problems " is a > radical > realization. For many, it seems like a death as there > is NO problematic > 'me' that they have always had. For many, it is a > great relief, a bliss > beyond bliss and everything else seems very pale and > insignificant. They > have tasted freedom, and they are not going to bother > to create stories, > no matter what. Even if it meant leaving job, > society, home, sitting on > park benches or in caves. Examples include Ramana and > Tolle and possibly > many, many more who lived and died in complete > oblivion. > > For many others, it is 'learning' to live, all over > again! They have > been through a constantly tormented existence. Now, > thy have tasted the > freedom, bliss, the uncaused happiness. They are > still ready to engage > in the world, but not at the cost of losing inherent > peace and > stillness! But that requires a whole new learning. > For some it takes > years and they call it settling down! Essentially, > almost the entire > conditioning of the mind, possibly even the circuitry > of brain needs to > be reworked, rewired to act, but, free of pain. > > But, there are also others who fall out. They get a > peek and then come > back, thinking, oh, now I am realized, enlightened, > awakened, all done, > all over nothing more... But, remember, bondage > creating circuitry and > conditioning is sill very much in place ...Some turn > back thinking that > the 'peek' has already destroyed it and it can't come > back ...others > come back thinking, ...there is no other possibility. > Some of them even > start blaming Buddha and Ramana and start calling > them fake, misleading > as in end of suffering, end of conditioning, ...or > 're-conditioning' is > Not Possible. However ...they have not been > conscious, attentive and > present enough to let body-mind learn to operate in > peace and harmony. > Further, they are not even thinking logically. > > [When Unconscious] You create suffering... [when > Conscious] you CAN > Avoid creating suffering! What can be Simpler...? > > Initially, your mind might still work on the > same patterns. You are conscious, so you catch it and > bring it back. > Mind learns, as the de-conditioning starts. It might > take some time, it > might require sacrifices. And, who can say that > Ramana, Tolle, Buddha > and many other 'unknowns' made no sacrifices. > Sacrifices that were > insignificant, trivial to them because of the bliss > of unconditional > freedom but still sacrifices from the external > 'worldly' perspective. > > ................................... > so many wonderful points!! About the recircuiting of the mind in the right direction, it is not just the mind that is changed and renewed. On an atomic level, the entire cell system undergoes a change. That is the natural consequence of a mutating consciousness Patricia ~~~~~~~ Reflecting an organic understanding... something that " rationality " cannot grasp. What is intuited can only be understood as a whole. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > --- Adithya K <adithya_comming a écrit : > > > > >> First peek in enlightenment is like going into > Deep Sleep > state, 'consciously'. You See that all your > suffering, pain, conflict > simply doesn't exist! > > >>As you start to be more and more conscious and get > more and more in tune with the body, mind and > emotions, you literally > see yourself 'producing' pain and suffering! You > see a thought and > immediately you feel a signal, twitch, a prick, a > pinch, few drop of > burning chemical (hormone) dropping in the blood > and, hey, you have > succeeded, you have been able to SUCCESSFULLY > create Pain! > > ... > > > Many others, who are not that Conscious know it too. > They try not to > think and talk about things that they 'think' causes > them pain. When they are > busy totally absorbed playing a sport, listening to > great music, > surrounded by great beauty, talking to someone, > watching some > entertaining movie and there is NO suffering in > those moments! > > Any time, they are not 'available' to 'create pain', > there is No Pain! > > Difference is that in the place of getting into the > " root " of the creation of > suffering and understanding it, they merely try to > 'escape' facing it. > And, then, come back, and 'start' thinking about > those seemingly > 'painful' things again and here comes the pain! and > it is easy to see, > " WHO " started it and how! > > A peek at enlightenment shows the falsity and > non-existence of problems, > pain and suffering (among the falsity and > non-existence of other > things). It shows the world merely as a play, a > drama, a creation of > outgoing energy. It shows that there is no bondage, > slavery, or > imprisonment. You create your world, even if, you > create it so > unconsciously, so 'automatically' that you don't > even realize it. You > create your 'world', bondage, suffering and many > other things by going > out. Sometimes through 'desires', sometimes through > 'attachment' and > sometimes just as an expression, a flow of radiant > happy content energy. > > Situations can't by themselves create miseries as > can clearly be seen by > deep sleep, no mind, no thought. Even meditating > about them doesn't. > But, labeling them as 'bad' gives a signal to the > brain, and brain and > body together do what they can do to 'represent' > bad. You 'resist', you > divide yourself into two one WHICH IS and the > 'other' which is fighting > it. > > Enlightenment doesn't terminate the 'suffering > creating' abilities. It > shows the un-necessity of them. You see that the > " End of Suffering " is > not only possible but that in fact, there is " NO " > suffering unless you > make an effort to create it! > > .................................................................... ............. > Patricia: > <You See that all your suffering, pain, conflict > simply doesn't exist! > > Well, I see that my pain and my thundering emotions > exists when I resist them. > Otherwise there is no <pain>...but something powerful > alright. LOL!!! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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