Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 In a message dated 4/9/2006 8:28:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gdtige writes: > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > <gdtige > wrote: > > > >--- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002 a écrit : > > > > > > > >Nisargadatta , OConnor > Patricia > ><gdtige@> > >wrote: > > sometimes isn`t a good time to face anything. > One is ran down, tired, annoyed and doesn`t have > the energy to be in the " Now " . > > > > > Welcome to reality, Patricia. > >This is what needs to be understood, not your myth > of > >the " Now " . > >The " Now " is a thought which you owe to your > >conditioning with too > >much " spirituality " . > >I hope you will stay tired and annoyed for a long > >time, and give > >yourself a chance to learn about it. > > > >Len > > > >Sorry if I posted a contradiction. > ><Now >isn`t a myth unless there has never been a > sense > >of it. > > Now is palpable. > >There is nothing more real than that, it entirely > >permeates if you pay complete attention. > > > > > >Patricia > > > You are dreaming away because you are not interested > in > understanding yourself. > > Len > > dreaming is a state of being, as well as thinking, > feeling, desiring... > when paying infinitisimal attention, without object, > there is no more room for a state of being. no more > room for creation, > no more seeing or understanding or evaluating ... > When not using your mind or body for any purpose or in > any direction, there is what has always been and > always will be :Reality. > Understanding myself can only come from There. > > Patricia > L.E: Once you have lived in the moment, the here and now, and felt the freshness and vitality and creativity as life itself, even when you are tired and can't be directly experiencing or being in it, you can recognize that you are still and always are in it, the flow of life, and be comforted, and that you will feel it more intensely as you recover your personal engergy. Like when you have known the pulse and power of the ocean and have been bobbing in it and are carried away in it and taste its saltiness and feel its character, and then you have to move away inland, but you remember that the ocean is still there in all of its energy even tho you are not in direct contact with it, the memory has some power left in it. Don't let Len bother you. He is intensely negative and a skeptic in nature and only sees his own view of things as real. He is convinced it is possible to understand yourself by picking away at the edges of his thinking, but you can't understand yourself, you can only be yourself, and by letting all that go, which he refuses to do, the self will disappear and rise again restored and refreshed. Just relax, don't worry about it. I agree with what you write about reality. You are doing fine. No problem. Larry Epston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 In a message dated 4/9/2006 11:55:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, illusyn writes: > dreaming is a state of being, as well as thinking, > >feeling, desiring... > >when paying infinitisimal attention, without object, > >there is no more room for a state of being. no more > >room for creation, > >no more seeing or understanding or evaluating ... > >When not using your mind or body for any purpose or in > >any direction, there is what has always been and > >always will be :Reality. > >Understanding myself can only come from There. > > > >Patricia > > > > perfect > > > Bill > > > L.E: It will be perfect when she says understanding comes from here and > leaves out " myself, " and " there. " Although everything is always perfect in its own way all the time. Larry Epston > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002 a écrit : > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > <gdtige@> > wrote: > > > > --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002@> a écrit : > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor > Patricia > > <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes isn`t a good time to face anything. > > > One is ran down, tired, annoyed and doesn`t have > the > > > energy to be in the " Now " . > > > > > > Welcome to reality, Patricia. > > This is what needs to be understood, not your myth > of > > the " Now " . > > The " Now " is a thought which you owe to your > > conditioning with too > > much " spirituality " . > > I hope you will stay tired and annoyed for a long > > time, and give > > yourself a chance to learn about it. > > > > Len > > > > > > > > Sorry if I posted a contradiction. > > <Now >isn`t a myth unless there has never been a > sense > > of it. > > Now is palpable. > > There is nothing more real than that, it entirely > > permeates if you pay complete attention. > > > > > > Patricia > > > You are dreaming away because you are not interested > in > understanding yourself. > > Len > > dreaming is a state of being, as well as thinking, > feeling, desiring... > when paying infinitisimal attention, without object, > there is no more room for a state of being. no more > room for creation, > no more seeing or understanding or evaluating ... > When not using your mind or body for any purpose or in > any direction, there is what has always been and > always will be :Reality. > Understanding myself can only come from There. > > Patricia You are escaping yourself through imagination. You can do that for some time but you cannot do that for ever. Your body will bring you home again. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002 a écrit : > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > <gdtige@> > wrote: > > > > --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002@> a écrit : > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor > Patricia > > <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes isn`t a good time to face anything. > > > One is ran down, tired, annoyed and doesn`t have > the > > > energy to be in the " Now " . > > > > > > Welcome to reality, Patricia. > > This is what needs to be understood, not your myth > of > > the " Now " . > > The " Now " is a thought which you owe to your > > conditioning with too > > much " spirituality " . > > I hope you will stay tired and annoyed for a long > > time, and give > > yourself a chance to learn about it. > > > > Len > > > > > > > > Sorry if I posted a contradiction. > > <Now >isn`t a myth unless there has never been a > sense > > of it. > > Now is palpable. > > There is nothing more real than that, it entirely > > permeates if you pay complete attention. > > > > > > Patricia > > > You are dreaming away because you are not interested > in > understanding yourself. > > Len > > dreaming is a state of being, as well as thinking, > feeling, desiring... > when paying infinitisimal attention, without object, > there is no more room for a state of being. no more > room for creation, > no more seeing or understanding or evaluating ... > When not using your mind or body for any purpose or in > any direction, there is what has always been and > always will be :Reality. > Understanding myself can only come from There. > > Patricia > perfect Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 --- epston a écrit : In a message dated 4/9/2006 11:55:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, illusyn writes: > dreaming is a state of being, as well as thinking, > >feeling, desiring... > >when paying infinitisimal attention, without object, > >there is no more room for a state of being. no more > >room for creation, > >no more seeing or understanding or evaluating ... > >When not using your mind or body for any purpose or in > >any direction, there is what has always been and > >always will be :Reality. > >Understanding myself can only come from There. > > > >Patricia > > > > perfect > > > Bill > > > L.E: It will be perfect when she says understanding comes from here and > leaves out " myself, " and " there. " Although everything is always perfect in its own way all the time. Larry Epston gggooood point, but I am also trying to communicate with Len and answer his question. Being too abstract might bring more confusion for him. Patricia > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002@> a écrit : > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > > <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002@> a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor > > Patricia > > > <gdtige@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes isn`t a good time to face anything. > > > > One is ran down, tired, annoyed and doesn`t have > > the > > > > energy to be in the " Now " . > > > > > > > > > Welcome to reality, Patricia. > > > This is what needs to be understood, not your myth > > of > > > the " Now " . > > > The " Now " is a thought which you owe to your > > > conditioning with too > > > much " spirituality " . > > > I hope you will stay tired and annoyed for a long > > > time, and give > > > yourself a chance to learn about it. > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry if I posted a contradiction. > > > <Now >isn`t a myth unless there has never been a > > sense > > > of it. > > > Now is palpable. > > > There is nothing more real than that, it entirely > > > permeates if you pay complete attention. > > > > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > You are dreaming away because you are not interested > > in > > understanding yourself. > > > > Len > > > > dreaming is a state of being, as well as thinking, > > feeling, desiring... > > when paying infinitisimal attention, without object, > > there is no more room for a state of being. no more > > room for creation, > > no more seeing or understanding or evaluating ... > > When not using your mind or body for any purpose or in > > any direction, there is what has always been and > > always will be :Reality. > > Understanding myself can only come from There. > > > > Patricia > > > > perfect > > > Bill A perfect dream, Bill. Your reality is far from perfect. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 In a message dated 4/9/2006 9:35:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 23:13:26 -0000 " billrishel " <illusyn Re : Re: constructive contradiction Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > ----- Message d'origine ---- > > De : lissbon2002 <lissbon2002@> > > À : Nisargadatta > > Envoyé le : Dimanche, 9 Avril 2006, 3h19mn 58s > > Objet : Re: constructive contradiction > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002@> a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > > > > <gdtige@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002@> a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor > > > > Patricia > > > > > <gdtige@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes isn`t a good time to face anything. > > > > > > One is ran down, tired, annoyed and doesn`t have > > > > the > > > > > > energy to be in the " Now " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Welcome to reality, Patricia. > > > > > This is what needs to be understood, not your myth > > > > of > > > > > the " Now " . > > > > > The " Now " is a thought which you owe to your > > > > > conditioning with too > > > > > much " spirituality " . > > > > > I hope you will stay tired and annoyed for a long > > > > > time, and give > > > > > yourself a chance to learn about it. > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry if I posted a contradiction. > > > > > <Now >isn`t a myth unless there has never been a > > > > sense > > > > > of it. > > > > > Now is palpable. > > > > > There is nothing more real than that, it entirely > > > > > permeates if you pay complete attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > You are dreaming away because you are not interested > > > > in > > > > understanding yourself. > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > dreaming is a state of being, as well as thinking, > > > > feeling, desiring... > > > > when paying infinitisimal attention, without object, > > > > there is no more room for a state of being. no more > > > > room for creation, > > > > no more seeing or understanding or evaluating ... > > > > When not using your mind or body for any purpose or in > > > > any direction, there is what has always been and > > > > always will be :Reality. > > > > Understanding myself can only come from There. > > > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > perfect > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > A perfect dream, Bill. > > Your reality is far from perfect. > > > > Len > > Sometimes, letting boredom take its course brings to wonderful > results: like openess, and loss of bitterness. > > Patricia > > > > You confuse honesty and sense of reality with bitterness, Patricia. > Bitterness is being stuck in negative conditioning, sense of reality > is being aware of facts, whether they please you or not. > Reality are your emotions of every day, your clinging to images, > your fear and longing for security. And because you don´t want it, > you follow a dream. > When you have the courage to see the facts how they are, pleasant or > not, when you deal with them and don´t escape into your dreams - > there is beauty of a completely different kind. > No use to talk about it, no use to dream about it, no use to try to > get there, it is only accessible to those who aren´t affraid to see > themeselves as they are. > > Len > Facts are what we see for ourselves. Facts are not what we see for other people. Bill When one sees oneself clearly, the other can be seen clearly as well. The trick is to clean the perceptual filters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 In a message dated 4/9/2006 9:35:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 00:54:50 +0100 (BST) OConnor Patricia <gdtige Re : Re : Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes isn`t a good time to face anything. > > > > > One is ran down, tired, annoyed and doesn`t have > > > the > > > > > energy to be in the " Now " . > > > > > > > > > > > > Welcome to reality, Patricia. > > > > This is what needs to be understood, not your myth > > > of > > > > the " Now " . > > > > The " Now " is a thought which you owe to your > > > > conditioning with too > > > > much " spirituality " . > > > > I hope you will stay tired and annoyed for a long > > > > time, and give > > > > yourself a chance to learn about it. > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry if I posted a contradiction. > > > > <Now >isn`t a myth unless there has never been a > > > sense > > > > of it. > > > > Now is palpable. > > > > There is nothing more real than that, it entirely > > > > permeates if you pay complete attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > You are dreaming away because you are not interested > > > in > > > understanding yourself. > > > > > > Len > > > > > > dreaming is a state of being, as well as thinking, > > > feeling, desiring... > > > when paying infinitisimal attention, without object, > > > there is no more room for a state of being. no more > > > room for creation, > > > no more seeing or understanding or evaluating ... > > > When not using your mind or body for any purpose or in > > > any direction, there is what has always been and > > > always will be :Reality. > > > Understanding myself can only come from There. > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > perfect > > > > > > Bill > > > A perfect dream, Bill. > Your reality is far from perfect. > > Len > Sometimes, letting boredom take its course brings to wonderful results: like openess, and loss of bitterness. > Patricia You confuse honesty and sense of reality with bitterness, Patricia. Bitterness is being stuck in negative conditioning, sense of reality is being aware of facts, whether they please you or not. Reality are your emotions of every day, your clinging to images, your fear and longing for security. And because you don´t want it, you follow a dream. When you have the courage to see the facts how they are, pleasant or not, when you deal with them and don´t escape into your dreams - there is beauty of a completely different kind. No use to talk about it, no use to dream about it, no use to try to get there, it is only accessible to those who aren´t affraid to see themeselves as they are. Len You are describing your sense of reality, you aren`t describing Reality. You cannot describe that. You are describing our day to day state of beings, always changeable, that cannot be what is real. What is changeable cannot be real. I`ve never felt part of my state of beings, because they change all the time. And I, who I really AM doesn`t. Plurality and diversity and changes are play of the mind only. And when all search ends, you are back to where you come from. And it cannot be denied because IT IS while merely all happens. Patricia Len doesn't seem to be talking about Absolute Reality. Ego would very much like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, tedious and unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but it's the poor health of ego which keeps one attached to it's illusion. We can't recognize our divine nature while struggling with our human nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/9/2006 9:35:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sun, 09 Apr 2006 23:13:26 -0000 > " billrishel " <illusyn > Re : Re: constructive contradiction > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Message d'origine ---- > > > De : lissbon2002 <lissbon2002@> > > > À : Nisargadatta > > > Envoyé le : Dimanche, 9 Avril 2006, 3h19mn 58s > > > Objet : Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002@> a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > > > > > <gdtige@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002@> a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > <gdtige@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes isn`t a good time to face anything. > > > > > > > One is ran down, tired, annoyed and doesn`t have > > > > > the > > > > > > > energy to be in the " Now " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Welcome to reality, Patricia. > > > > > > This is what needs to be understood, not your myth > > > > > of > > > > > > the " Now " . > > > > > > The " Now " is a thought which you owe to your > > > > > > conditioning with too > > > > > > much " spirituality " . > > > > > > I hope you will stay tired and annoyed for a long > > > > > > time, and give > > > > > > yourself a chance to learn about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry if I posted a contradiction. > > > > > > <Now >isn`t a myth unless there has never been a > > > > > sense > > > > > > of it. > > > > > > Now is palpable. > > > > > > There is nothing more real than that, it entirely > > > > > > permeates if you pay complete attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are dreaming away because you are not interested > > > > > in > > > > > understanding yourself. > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > dreaming is a state of being, as well as thinking, > > > > > feeling, desiring... > > > > > when paying infinitisimal attention, without object, > > > > > there is no more room for a state of being. no more > > > > > room for creation, > > > > > no more seeing or understanding or evaluating ... > > > > > When not using your mind or body for any purpose or in > > > > > any direction, there is what has always been and > > > > > always will be :Reality. > > > > > Understanding myself can only come from There. > > > > > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > perfect > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > A perfect dream, Bill. > > > Your reality is far from perfect. > > > > > > Len > > > Sometimes, letting boredom take its course brings to wonderful > > results: like openess, and loss of bitterness. > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > You confuse honesty and sense of reality with bitterness, Patricia. > > Bitterness is being stuck in negative conditioning, sense of reality > > is being aware of facts, whether they please you or not. > > Reality are your emotions of every day, your clinging to images, > > your fear and longing for security. And because you don´t want it, > > you follow a dream. > > When you have the courage to see the facts how they are, pleasant or > > not, when you deal with them and don´t escape into your dreams - > > there is beauty of a completely different kind. > > No use to talk about it, no use to dream about it, no use to try to > > get there, it is only accessible to those who aren´t affraid to see > > themeselves as they are. > > > > Len > > > > Facts are what we see for ourselves. > Facts are not what we see for other people. > > Bill > > > > When one sees oneself clearly, the other can be seen clearly as well. The > trick is to clean the perceptual filters. Exactly. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/9/2006 9:35:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 00:54:50 +0100 (BST) > OConnor Patricia <gdtige > Re : Re : Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes isn`t a good time to face anything. > > > > > > One is ran down, tired, annoyed and doesn`t have > > > > the > > > > > > energy to be in the " Now " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Welcome to reality, Patricia. > > > > > This is what needs to be understood, not your myth > > > > of > > > > > the " Now " . > > > > > The " Now " is a thought which you owe to your > > > > > conditioning with too > > > > > much " spirituality " . > > > > > I hope you will stay tired and annoyed for a long > > > > > time, and give > > > > > yourself a chance to learn about it. > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry if I posted a contradiction. > > > > > <Now >isn`t a myth unless there has never been a > > > > sense > > > > > of it. > > > > > Now is palpable. > > > > > There is nothing more real than that, it entirely > > > > > permeates if you pay complete attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > You are dreaming away because you are not interested > > > > in > > > > understanding yourself. > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > dreaming is a state of being, as well as thinking, > > > > feeling, desiring... > > > > when paying infinitisimal attention, without object, > > > > there is no more room for a state of being. no more > > > > room for creation, > > > > no more seeing or understanding or evaluating ... > > > > When not using your mind or body for any purpose or in > > > > any direction, there is what has always been and > > > > always will be :Reality. > > > > Understanding myself can only come from There. > > > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > perfect > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > A perfect dream, Bill. > > Your reality is far from perfect. > > > > Len > > Sometimes, letting boredom take its course brings to wonderful > results: like openess, and loss of bitterness. > > Patricia > > > > You confuse honesty and sense of reality with bitterness, Patricia. > Bitterness is being stuck in negative conditioning, sense of reality > is being aware of facts, whether they please you or not. > Reality are your emotions of every day, your clinging to images, > your fear and longing for security. And because you don´t want it, > you follow a dream. > When you have the courage to see the facts how they are, pleasant or > not, when you deal with them and don´t escape into your dreams - > there is beauty of a completely different kind. > No use to talk about it, no use to dream about it, no use to try to > get there, it is only accessible to those who aren´t affraid to see > themeselves as they are. > > Len > You are describing your sense of reality, you aren`t describing Reality. You > cannot describe that. > You are describing our day to day state of beings, always changeable, that > cannot be what is real. What is changeable cannot be real. > I`ve never felt part of my state of beings, because they change all the time. > And I, who I really AM doesn`t. > Plurality and diversity and changes are play of the mind only. > And when all search ends, you are back to where you come from. > And it cannot be denied because IT IS while merely all happens. > > Patricia > > > > Len doesn't seem to be talking about Absolute Reality. Ego would very much > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, tedious and > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but it's the poor health of ego > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. We can't recognize our divine > nature while struggling with our human nature. Yes. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > Ego would > very much > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, tedious > and > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but it's the > poor health of ego > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now seems interesting to question. What is a healthy ego? Does such a thing exist? Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > Ego would > > very much > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, tedious > > and > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but it's the > > poor health of ego > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now seems > interesting to question. > What is a healthy ego? > Does such a thing exist? > > Len > I and me and myself all have three healthy ego, amigo. it's sooo lonely sometime among ourselves sometime I tell myself to get lost but my me say no. This eez no healthy..... bobby florez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: constructive contradiction > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > Ego would > very much > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, tedious > and > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but it's the > poor health of ego > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now seems interesting to question. What is a healthy ego? Does such a thing exist? Len Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is problematic. Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real doesn't cause the belief to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our claims such as I just stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this is how mind works; What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly believed, are different. A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity where nothing is kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. This seems to be necessary before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires that keep the focus of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect along the way is a good deal more peace and joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 00:36:10 +0200 (CEST) OConnor Patricia <gdtige RE: Re : Re: constructive contradiction --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002 a écrit : Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > > ----- Message d'origine ---- > De : lissbon2002 <lissbon2002 > À : Nisargadatta > Envoyé le : Lundi, 10 Avril 2006, 10h21mn 34s > Objet : Re: constructive contradiction > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > Ego would > > very much > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, tedious > > and > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but it's the > > poor health of ego > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now seems > interesting to question. > What is a healthy ego? > Does such a thing exist? > > Len > healthy ego exist when unhealthy ego pairs it. > Patricia I don´t understand what you mean. Len .................................................... Our world is made of opposites and you can`t have something without its opposite. Days and nights succeed each other, birth and death, love and hate, healthy and unhealthy, interest-disinterest, sorrow and joy... That is what keeps this field of life uncristallized. Patricia And so you must be sick half the time, and dishonest half time, and sleep 12 hours a day? Is that what duality means to you? That sounds suspiciously like Larryism. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Tue, 11 Apr 2006 00:36:10 +0200 (CEST) > OConnor Patricia <gdtige > RE: Re : Re: constructive contradiction > > > --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002 a écrit : > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > <gdtige@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > ----- Message d'origine ---- > > De : lissbon2002 <lissbon2002@> > > À : Nisargadatta > > Envoyé le : Lundi, 10 Avril 2006, 10h21mn 34s > > Objet : Re: constructive > contradiction > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ > wrote: > > > > > Ego would > > > very much > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which > is boring, > tedious > > > and > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater > Reality, but it's > the > > > poor health of ego > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this > part, which now > seems > > interesting to question. > > What is a healthy ego? > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > Len > > > > healthy ego exist when unhealthy ego pairs it. > > Patricia > > > I don´t understand what you mean. > > Len > ................................................... > Our world is made of opposites and you can`t have > something without its opposite. > Days and nights succeed each other, birth and death, > love and hate, healthy and unhealthy, > interest-disinterest, sorrow and joy... > That is what keeps this field of life uncristallized. > Patricia > > > > > > And so you must be sick half the time, and dishonest half time, and sleep 12 > hours a day? Is that what duality means to you? That sounds suspiciously like > Larryism. > > Phil > If memory serves that was in the 3rd Book of Bullshit..or was that in the newer tasty-mint, " StrangerYet 3:1 " ...We all could use some further study of the " Larry Lexicon of Life " ........bob > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: constructive contradiction > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > Ego would > > very much > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, tedious > > and > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but it's the > > poor health of ego > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now seems > interesting to question. > What is a healthy ego? > Does such a thing exist? > > Len > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is problematic. > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real doesn't cause the belief > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our claims such as I just > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this is how mind works; > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly believed, are > different. > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity where nothing is > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. Seeing it fully is the end of it. But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of ego. I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it. Len > This seems to be necessary > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires that keep the focus > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect along the way is a > good deal more peace and joy. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > Ego would > > > very much > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, > tedious > > > and > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but > it's the > > > poor health of ego > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now > seems > > interesting to question. > > What is a healthy ego? > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > Len > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > problematic. > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real doesn't > cause the belief > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our claims such > as I just > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this is how > mind works; > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly believed, > are > > different. > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity where > nothing is > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of ego. > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it. > > Len > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires that > keep the focus > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect along > the way is a > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 In a message dated 4/11/2006 3:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:17:36 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: constructive contradiction Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: constructive contradiction > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > Ego would > > very much > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, tedious > > and > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but it's the > > poor health of ego > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now seems > interesting to question. > What is a healthy ego? > Does such a thing exist? > > Len > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is problematic. > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real doesn't cause the belief > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our claims such as I just > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this is how mind works; > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly believed, are > different. > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity where nothing is > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. Seeing it fully is the end of it. But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of ego. I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it. Len Yeah, that's how I see it. I started jabbering about " healthy ego " because lots of folks believe ego is to be bludgeoned to death, and this just creates more internal conflict and separation since the apparent bludgeoner and bludgeonee are the same. All that needs to be done is to expose it all to the light of day. Negative ego can no longer function without it's hiding place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 In a message dated 4/11/2006 3:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:16:58 -0000 " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 Re: constructive contradiction Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > Ego would > > > very much > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, > tedious > > > and > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but > it's the > > > poor health of ego > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now > seems > > interesting to question. > > What is a healthy ego? > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > Len > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > problematic. > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real doesn't > cause the belief > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our claims such > as I just > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this is how > mind works; > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly believed, > are > > different. > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity where > nothing is > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of ego. > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it. > > Len > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires that > keep the focus > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect along > the way is a > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 In a message dated 4/12/2006 1:37:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:35:22 -0000 " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 Re: constructive contradiction Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > Ego would > > > > very much > > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, > > tedious > > > > and > > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but > > it's the > > > > poor health of ego > > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now > > seems > > > interesting to question. > > > What is a healthy ego? > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > > problematic. > > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real > doesn't > > cause the belief > > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our claims > such > > as I just > > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this is how > > mind works; > > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly believed, > > are > > > different. > > > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity where > > nothing is > > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self > > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is > > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of ego. > > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the > > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it. > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires that > > keep the focus > > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect along > > the way is a > > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > " Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief " ,(notion of who and > believed by whom?)..... " accepting the concept doesn't cause the > belief to change " (for whom?)... " accepted as a valid concept.. and > what is truly believed, are different " (say again!??????).... " self > identity where nothing is kept secret and self defenses can't > operate unseen " (so the self identifies with itself and thereby hides > nothing from itself and thus defends itself openly in itself as > ego?)........ " precisely this secretness, still having some illusions > to lose, which makes for the ego. " (who is keeping this secret which > posseses illusions and creates an " ego " ?).... " Seeing it fully is the > end of it. " (who..the self?..sees this ego self?).... " I wouldn´t call > it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the sickness of the > whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it " (the " me " > structure is sick and has need to understand that you understand that > it cannot be healthy in any case.?) > Len I'm having a difficult time coming to grips with any meaning here > whatsoever...help me out. > .........bob an individual ego entity is called " ignorant " a healthy individual ego entity could be called a " healthy ignorant " Marc Healthy ego seek only to share is favorite ignorance. Unhealthy ego seeks to share it's poor health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 In a message dated 4/12/2006 1:37:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:47:44 -0000 " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 Re: constructive contradiction Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > <lissbon2002@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight > > Time, > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego would > > > > > > > very much > > > > > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is > > boring, > > > > > tedious > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, > > but > > > > > it's the > > > > > > > poor health of ego > > > > > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, > which > > > now > > > > > seems > > > > > > interesting to question. > > > > > > What is a healthy ego? > > > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > > > > > problematic. > > > > > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real > > > > doesn't > > > > > cause the belief > > > > > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our > claims > > > > such > > > > > as I just > > > > > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this > is > > > how > > > > > mind works; > > > > > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly > > > believed, > > > > > are > > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity > where > > > > > nothing is > > > > > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self > > > > > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > > > > > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > > > > > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > > > > > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > > > > > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is > > > > > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of > ego. > > > > > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of > > the > > > > > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to > > understand > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > > > > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires > > that > > > > > keep the focus > > > > > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect > > along > > > > > the way is a > > > > > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief " ,(notion of who > and > > > > believed by whom?)..... " accepting the concept doesn't cause > the > > > > belief to change " (for whom?)... " accepted as a valid concept.. > and > > > > what is truly believed, are different " (say > again!??????).... " self > > > > identity where nothing is kept secret and self defenses can't > > > > operate unseen " (so the self identifies with itself and thereby > > > hides > > > > nothing from itself and thus defends itself openly in itself as > > > > ego?)........ " precisely this secretness, still having some > > > illusions > > > > to lose, which makes for the ego. " (who is keeping this secret > > which > > > > posseses illusions and creates an " ego " ?).... " Seeing it fully > is > > > the > > > > end of it. " (who..the self?..sees this ego self?).... " I wouldn´t > > > call > > > > it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the sickness of > the > > > > whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it " (the " me " > > > > structure is sick and has need to understand that you > understand > > > that > > > > it cannot be healthy in any case.?) > > > > Len I'm having a difficult time coming to grips with any > meaning > > > here > > > > whatsoever...help me out. > > > > .........bob > > > > > > > > > an individual ego entity is called " ignorant " > > > > > > a healthy individual ego entity could be called a " healthy > ignorant " > > > > > > Marc > > > > > well I guess i'm feeling good but i'm ignorant of this fact. > this > > must be the hale and hardy entity speaking...but so stupid too. > Mmmm. > > let's see then..big ego, big problem..no ego, no probs. at least no > > individual problems to speak of.or not to speak of. or is somebody > a > > sick son of a bitch or what? > > lost in lingua land and searching for for Mickey in all the > wrong > > places. i guess therefore i am (confused) > > ..........bob > > :-)) > > .......bob > > > > > what is this talk exactly about....?..... > > maybe the word " ego " give you confusion..... > > yes.... " healthy ego " sounds already " sick " .........seem to be a > very complicated subject..... > > Marc Ps: the real nature is formless, changless, infinite..... the sum total of non-identification with This is ego-mind related illusion nobody can (be) force(d) to be what One already ....and realy Is it take (few) lifetime(s) to loose all this....what one never have realy been Yes, and it seems so mysterious that something that doesn't even exist could obscure that which does exist. " How is that possible " , we ask, as we place another brick in the wall. All sorts of words are used to describe how meaningless and nonexistent this wall is....and yet there it is. Beautiful words are used to describe what might lie beyond the wall; what is sometimes glimpsed through the cracks in the wall.....and still the wall remains. Perhaps it's just a matter of the grace of God, or another kind of meditation.....as another brick is placed on the wall. If it takes a few more lifetimes to see beyond the wall, then nothing can be done about that......but at least I have this pretty wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 In a message dated 4/12/2006 1:37:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:08:03 -0000 " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 Re: constructive contradiction Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight > > > Time, > > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego would > > > > > > > > very much > > > > > > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is > > > boring, > > > > > > tedious > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, > > > but > > > > > > it's the > > > > > > > > poor health of ego > > > > > > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, > > which > > > > now > > > > > > seems > > > > > > > interesting to question. > > > > > > > What is a healthy ego? > > > > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > > > > > > problematic. > > > > > > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not > real > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > cause the belief > > > > > > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our > > claims > > > > > such > > > > > > as I just > > > > > > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this > > is > > > > how > > > > > > mind works; > > > > > > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly > > > > believed, > > > > > > are > > > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity > > where > > > > > > nothing is > > > > > > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no > self > > > > > > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > > > > > > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > > > > > > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > > > > > > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > > > > > > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence > is > > > > > > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of > > ego. > > > > > > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement > of > > > the > > > > > > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to > > > understand > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > > > > > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires > > > that > > > > > > keep the focus > > > > > > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect > > > along > > > > > > the way is a > > > > > > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief " ,(notion of who > > and > > > > > believed by whom?)..... " accepting the concept doesn't cause > > the > > > > > belief to change " (for whom?)... " accepted as a valid concept.. > > and > > > > > what is truly believed, are different " (say > > again!??????).... " self > > > > > identity where nothing is kept secret and self defenses > can't > > > > > operate unseen " (so the self identifies with itself and > thereby > > > > hides > > > > > nothing from itself and thus defends itself openly in itself > as > > > > > ego?)........ " precisely this secretness, still having some > > > > illusions > > > > > to lose, which makes for the ego. " (who is keeping this secret > > > which > > > > > posseses illusions and creates an " ego " ?).... " Seeing it fully > > is > > > > the > > > > > end of it. " (who..the self?..sees this ego self?).... " I > wouldn´t > > > > call > > > > > it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the sickness of > > the > > > > > whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it " (the " me " > > > > > structure is sick and has need to understand that you > > understand > > > > that > > > > > it cannot be healthy in any case.?) > > > > > Len I'm having a difficult time coming to grips with any > > meaning > > > > here > > > > > whatsoever...help me out. > > > > > .........bob > > > > > > > > > > > > an individual ego entity is called " ignorant " > > > > > > > > a healthy individual ego entity could be called a " healthy > > ignorant " > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > well I guess i'm feeling good but i'm ignorant of this fact. > > this > > > must be the hale and hardy entity speaking...but so stupid too. > > Mmmm. > > > let's see then..big ego, big problem..no ego, no probs. at least > no > > > individual problems to speak of.or not to speak of. or is > somebody > > a > > > sick son of a bitch or what? > > > lost in lingua land and searching for for Mickey in all the > > wrong > > > places. i guess therefore i am (confused) > > > ..........bob > > > :-)) > > > .......bob > > > > > > > > > > what is this talk exactly about....?..... > > > > maybe the word " ego " give you confusion..... > > > > yes.... " healthy ego " sounds already " sick " .........seem to be a > > very complicated subject..... > > > > Marc > > Ps: the real nature is formless, changless, infinite..... > the sum total of non-identification with This is ego-mind related > illusion > nobody can (be) force(d) to be what One already ....and realy Is > > it take (few) lifetime(s) to loose all this....what one never have > realy been > > > This is cool Mark. Cool and Smooth and True. The ego may be a problem..healthy or sick...but what you're getting at here is way before and well beyond the egos talking here. Even if this sounds trite and silly, I find the above a Blessing. and this is not being coy.......very nicely said as I say M. ...........bob Watch whatever path ego takes, and then choose the one less traveled. There's a reason ego paves it's path with gold, and it's not to welcome it's pall bearers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > Ego would > > > > very much > > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, > > tedious > > > > and > > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but > > it's the > > > > poor health of ego > > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now > > seems > > > interesting to question. > > > What is a healthy ego? > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > > problematic. > > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real > doesn't > > cause the belief > > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our claims > such > > as I just > > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this is how > > mind works; > > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly believed, > > are > > > different. > > > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity where > > nothing is > > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self > > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is > > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of ego. > > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the > > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it. > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires that > > keep the focus > > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect along > > the way is a > > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ego would > > > > > very much > > > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, > > > tedious > > > > > and > > > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but > > > it's the > > > > > poor health of ego > > > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which > now > > > seems > > > > interesting to question. > > > > What is a healthy ego? > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > > > problematic. > > > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real > > doesn't > > > cause the belief > > > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our claims > > such > > > as I just > > > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this is > how > > > mind works; > > > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly > believed, > > > are > > > > different. > > > > > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity where > > > nothing is > > > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > > > > > > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self > > > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > > > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > > > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > > > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > > > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is > > > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of ego. > > > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the > > > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to understand > it. > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires that > > > keep the focus > > > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect along > > > the way is a > > > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight > Time, > > > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Ego would > > > > > > very much > > > > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is > boring, > > > > tedious > > > > > > and > > > > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, > but > > > > it's the > > > > > > poor health of ego > > > > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which > > now > > > > seems > > > > > interesting to question. > > > > > What is a healthy ego? > > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > > > > problematic. > > > > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real > > > doesn't > > > > cause the belief > > > > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our claims > > > such > > > > as I just > > > > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this is > > how > > > > mind works; > > > > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly > > believed, > > > > are > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity where > > > > nothing is > > > > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self > > > > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > > > > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > > > > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > > > > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > > > > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is > > > > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of ego. > > > > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of > the > > > > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to > understand > > it. > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > > > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires > that > > > > keep the focus > > > > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect > along > > > > the way is a > > > > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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