Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > <lissbon2002@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight > > Time, > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego would > > > > > > > very much > > > > > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is > > boring, > > > > > tedious > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, > > but > > > > > it's the > > > > > > > poor health of ego > > > > > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, > which > > > now > > > > > seems > > > > > > interesting to question. > > > > > > What is a healthy ego? > > > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > > > > > problematic. > > > > > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real > > > > doesn't > > > > > cause the belief > > > > > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our > claims > > > > such > > > > > as I just > > > > > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this > is > > > how > > > > > mind works; > > > > > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly > > > believed, > > > > > are > > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity > where > > > > > nothing is > > > > > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self > > > > > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > > > > > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > > > > > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > > > > > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > > > > > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is > > > > > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of > ego. > > > > > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of > > the > > > > > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to > > understand > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > > > > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires > > that > > > > > keep the focus > > > > > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect > > along > > > > > the way is a > > > > > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight > > > Time, > > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego would > > > > > > > > very much > > > > > > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is > > > boring, > > > > > > tedious > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, > > > but > > > > > > it's the > > > > > > > > poor health of ego > > > > > > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, > > which > > > > now > > > > > > seems > > > > > > > interesting to question. > > > > > > > What is a healthy ego? > > > > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > > > > > > problematic. > > > > > > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not > real > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > cause the belief > > > > > > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our > > claims > > > > > such > > > > > > as I just > > > > > > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this > > is > > > > how > > > > > > mind works; > > > > > > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly > > > > believed, > > > > > > are > > > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity > > where > > > > > > nothing is > > > > > > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no > self > > > > > > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > > > > > > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > > > > > > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > > > > > > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > > > > > > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence > is > > > > > > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of > > ego. > > > > > > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement > of > > > the > > > > > > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to > > > understand > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > > > > > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires > > > that > > > > > > keep the focus > > > > > > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect > > > along > > > > > > the way is a > > > > > > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific > Daylight > > > > Time, > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego would > > > > > > > > > very much > > > > > > > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is > > > > boring, > > > > > > > tedious > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater > Reality, > > > > but > > > > > > > it's the > > > > > > > > > poor health of ego > > > > > > > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, > > > which > > > > > now > > > > > > > seems > > > > > > > > interesting to question. > > > > > > > > What is a healthy ego? > > > > > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > > > > > > > problematic. > > > > > > > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not > > real > > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > cause the belief > > > > > > > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our > > > claims > > > > > > such > > > > > > > as I just > > > > > > > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but > this > > > is > > > > > how > > > > > > > mind works; > > > > > > > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly > > > > > believed, > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity > > > where > > > > > > > nothing is > > > > > > > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no > > self > > > > > > > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having > some > > > > > > > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > > > > > > > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > > > > > > > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of > openness, > > > > > > > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self > defence > > is > > > > > > > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation > of > > > ego. > > > > > > > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to > > > > understand > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > > > > > > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and > desires > > > > that > > > > > > > keep the focus > > > > > > > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side > effect > > > > along > > > > > > > the way is a > > > > > > > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/11/2006 3:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:16:58 -0000 > " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 > Re: constructive contradiction > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > Ego would > > > > very much > > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, > > tedious > > > > and > > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but > > it's the > > > > poor health of ego > > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now > > seems > > > interesting to question. > > > What is a healthy ego? > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > > problematic. > > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real > doesn't > > cause the belief > > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our claims > such > > as I just > > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this is how > > mind works; > > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly believed, > > are > > > different. > > > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity where > > nothing is > > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self > > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is > > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of ego. > > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the > > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it. > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires that > > keep the focus > > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect along > > the way is a > > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/12/2006 1:37:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:47:44 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: constructive contradiction > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > > <lissbon2002@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight > > > Time, > > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > > > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > > > > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego would > > > > > > > > very much > > > > > > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is > > > boring, > > > > > > tedious > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, > > > but > > > > > > it's the > > > > > > > > poor health of ego > > > > > > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, > > which > > > > now > > > > > > seems > > > > > > > interesting to question. > > > > > > > What is a healthy ego? > > > > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > > > > > > problematic. > > > > > > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not > real > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > cause the belief > > > > > > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our > > claims > > > > > such > > > > > > as I just > > > > > > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this > > is > > > > how > > > > > > mind works; > > > > > > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly > > > > believed, > > > > > > are > > > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity > > where > > > > > > nothing is > > > > > > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no > self > > > > > > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > > > > > > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > > > > > > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > > > > > > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > > > > > > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence > is > > > > > > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of > > ego. > > > > > > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement > of > > > the > > > > > > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to > > > understand > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > > > > > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires > > > that > > > > > > keep the focus > > > > > > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect > > > along > > > > > > the way is a > > > > > > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief " ,(notion of who > > and > > > > > believed by whom?)..... " accepting the concept doesn't cause > > the > > > > > belief to change " (for whom?)... " accepted as a valid concept.. > > and > > > > > what is truly believed, are different " (say > > again!??????).... " self > > > > > identity where nothing is kept secret and self defenses > can't > > > > > operate unseen " (so the self identifies with itself and > thereby > > > > hides > > > > > nothing from itself and thus defends itself openly in itself > as > > > > > ego?)........ " precisely this secretness, still having some > > > > illusions > > > > > to lose, which makes for the ego. " (who is keeping this secret > > > which > > > > > posseses illusions and creates an " ego " ?).... " Seeing it fully > > is > > > > the > > > > > end of it. " (who..the self?..sees this ego self?).... " I > wouldn´t > > > > call > > > > > it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the sickness of > > the > > > > > whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it " (the " me " > > > > > structure is sick and has need to understand that you > > understand > > > > > that > > > > > it cannot be healthy in any case.?) > > > > > Len I'm having a difficult time coming to grips with any > > meaning > > > > here > > > > > whatsoever...help me out. > > > > > .........bob > > > > > > > > > > > > an individual ego entity is called " ignorant " > > > > > > > > a healthy individual ego entity could be called a " healthy > > ignorant " > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > well I guess i'm feeling good but i'm ignorant of this fact. > > this > > > must be the hale and hardy entity speaking...but so stupid too. > > Mmmm. > > > let's see then..big ego, big problem..no ego, no probs. at least > no > > > individual problems to speak of.or not to speak of. or is > somebody > > a > > > sick son of a bitch or what? > > > lost in lingua land and searching for for Mickey in all the > > wrong > > > places. i guess therefore i am (confused) > > > ..........bob > > > :-)) > > > .......bob > > > > > > > > > > what is this talk exactly about....?..... > > > > maybe the word " ego " give you confusion..... > > > > yes.... " healthy ego " sounds already " sick " .........seem to be a > > very complicated subject..... > > > > Marc > > Ps: the real nature is formless, changless, infinite..... > the sum total of non-identification with This is ego-mind related > illusion > nobody can (be) force(d) to be what One already ....and realy Is > > it take (few) lifetime(s) to loose all this....what one never have > realy been > > > > > Yes, and it seems so mysterious that something that doesn't even exist could > obscure that which does exist. " How is that possible " , we ask, as we place > another brick in the wall. > All sorts of words are used to describe how meaningless and nonexistent this > wall is....and yet there it is. Beautiful words are used to describe what > might lie beyond the wall; what is sometimes glimpsed through the cracks in the > wall.....and still the wall remains. Perhaps it's just a matter of the grace > of God, or another kind of meditation.....as another brick is placed on the > wall. If it takes a few more lifetimes to see beyond the wall, then nothing > can be done about that......but at least I have this pretty wall. > > > there is no more wall.... it take as long time to " see " behind this your described wall....as you think to be " Phil " give up this your " Phil " ....thats all you need to do endless concepts can't help you out of there.... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/12/2006 1:37:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:35:22 -0000 > " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 > Re: constructive contradiction > > Nisargadatta , " Bob N. " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ego would > > > > > very much > > > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, > > > tedious > > > > > and > > > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but > > > it's the > > > > > poor health of ego > > > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which > now > > > seems > > > > interesting to question. > > > > What is a healthy ego? > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > > > problematic. > > > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real > > doesn't > > > cause the belief > > > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our claims > > such > > > as I just > > > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this is > how > > > mind works; > > > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly > believed, > > > are > > > > different. > > > > > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity where > > > nothing is > > > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > > > > > > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self > > > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > > > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > > > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > > > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > > > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is > > > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of ego. > > > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the > > > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to understand > it. > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > This seems to be necessary > > > > before one can begin to deal with attachments and desires that > > > keep the focus > > > > of consciousness locked into the illusion. A side effect along > > > the way is a > > > > good deal more peace and joy. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > " Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief " ,(notion of who and > > believed by whom?)..... " accepting the concept doesn't cause the > > belief to change " (for whom?)... " accepted as a valid concept.. and > > what is truly believed, are different " (say again!??????).... " self > > identity where nothing is kept secret and self defenses can't > > operate unseen " (so the self identifies with itself and thereby > hides > > nothing from itself and thus defends itself openly in itself as > > ego?)........ " precisely this secretness, still having some > illusions > > to lose, which makes for the ego. " (who is keeping this secret which > > posseses illusions and creates an " ego " ?).... " Seeing it fully is > the > > end of it. " (who..the self?..sees this ego self?).... " I wouldn´t > call > > it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the sickness of the > > whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it " (the " me " > > structure is sick and has need to understand that you understand > that > > it cannot be healthy in any case.?) > > Len I'm having a difficult time coming to grips with any meaning > here > > whatsoever...help me out. > > .........bob > > > an individual ego entity is called " ignorant " > > a healthy individual ego entity could be called a " healthy ignorant " > > Marc > > > > Healthy ego seek only to share is favorite ignorance. Unhealthy ego seeks to > share it's poor health. yes....ego's try all the time to share with.... " Mickymouse " ....or.... " what/whoever " .... Marc > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/11/2006 3:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:17:36 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: constructive contradiction > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:21:34 -0000 > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > Re: constructive contradiction > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > Ego would > > > very much > > > > like to bypass it's own self exploration which is boring, > tedious > > > and > > > > unnerving, in favor of jumping to a greater Reality, but > it's the > > > poor health of ego > > > > which keeps one attached to it's illusion. > > > > > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now > seems > > interesting to question. > > What is a healthy ego? > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > Len > > > > > > > > Ego exists as a notion, a deeply held belief, and so is > problematic. > > Clearly, simply accepting the concept that ego is not real doesn't > cause the belief > > to change. In this, there's a certain hypocrisy in our claims such > as I just > > stated, while the same notion is still clung to, but this is how > mind works; > > What is accepted as a valid concept, and what is truly believed, > are > > different. > > > > A healthy ego would refer to an integrous self identity where > nothing is > > kept secret and self defenses can't operate unseen. > > > > When nothing, really nothing is kept secret, there is no self > defence. It is precisely this secretness, still having some > illusions to lose, which makes for the ego. > Seeing it fully is the end of it. > But I see what you mean, I think. The attitude of openness, > curiosity and willingness to learn about ones self defence is > necessary to understand the process of self pepertuation of ego. > I wouldn´t call it health, but rather the acknowledgement of the > sickness of the whole " me " structure, and the need to understand it. > > Len > > > > > Yeah, that's how I see it. I started jabbering about " healthy ego " because > lots of folks believe ego is to be bludgeoned to death, and this just creates > more internal conflict and separation since the apparent bludgeoner and > bludgeonee are the same. That´s it. Also the concept of non volition is something which volitional ego (ego = volition) holds on to, so that it can pretend not to be responsible for its own volitional choices, which can be only pretended as long as the fact of ego being pure volition is denied. Len > All that needs to be done is to expose it all to the light of day. Negative > ego can no longer function without it's hiding place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > P: The ego embraces ideas that seem useful to it, such as the idea that it > doesn't exist, but it doesn't really believe that. It may seem strange that > ego wants to not exist, but it believes this will result in awakening, and it > imagines this as some kind of transfer of identity. Yes. The idea of non existing ego is meant to keep the ego intact (no need to pay attention to something which doesn´t exist) and at the same time reach the state which can be only there when the ego is not ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > P: The ego embraces ideas that seem useful to it, such as the > idea that it > > doesn't exist, but it doesn't really believe that. It may seem > strange that > > ego wants to not exist, but it believes this will result in > awakening, and it > > imagines this as some kind of transfer of identity. > > > > > Yes. The idea of non existing ego is meant to keep the ego intact > (no need to pay attention to something which doesn´t exist) and at > the same time reach the state which can be only there when the ego > is not ;-) > > Len And because this state cannot be reached by ego and because realizing this fact is extremely frustrating for the ambitous ego, it creates the image of this desirable state and sticks firmly to the conviction that it is not the image but reality. Every questioning of the reality of this imagined state triggers strong defensive reactions. The only power of ego is the power of images. Therefore nothing is more threatening to ego than the capacity to discern images from facts. Which explains why the perception of something so obvious as the difference between imagination and reality, can be effectively thwarted during whole life, until death. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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