Thinking As Avoidance of the Real

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In a message dated 4/9/2006 1:55:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB

writes:

 

>

> In a message dated 4/8/2006 4:23:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> lissbon2002 writes:

>

> >I see what you mean, Phil, this was also my reasoning first,

> >but in this case it was interesting to notice a subtle, interesting

> >difference between not facing some feeling because the sensation

> >of it is just too scary, and not facing something which isn´t

> >difficult to face at all, and where the only obstacle is stubbornness.

> >

> >Len

> >

> L.E: A great example of how the mind creates endless difficulties for

> itself as it attracts attention to its endless phantasy of problems that

> just go

> on and on and will never be resolved until the person just dies, or somehow

>

> >gives up and realizes that he is just endlessly stirring up clouds of dust

>

> so he

> won't see the simple truth of being in the present and just feeling alive

> with a quiet mind that stops doing that.

> And he finds co-dependents to nurture support his obsession with himself

> and

> his mind-stuff. On and on, no resolution, just continual mind-fluff over

> and over, attracting others attention to keep his illusion of significance

> alive.

>

> Larry Epston

>

>

>

>

> To have a quiet mind is a wonderful thing, but this is not a choice that an

>

> individual can make. after all, the mind is being stilled and so what

> is there to look at?

> Thoughts of anger, judgment, projections, defenses can continue without

> ever

> being challenged because, Ego can hide forever in plain sight this way. The

> mind is stilled by exploring the truth about mind. Ego can only play it's

> silly games

> in the dark. When there is no more need to play unconscious ego games, there

>

> are no more thoughts waiting to fill every still moment. If the mind is

> still not still, then it is already known why this is so, and there's no

> need for

> the absurdity of doing battle with ones own thoughts.

>

 

L.E: Your comments are really interesting to me as they clearly describe

essential differences in vision and approach between us and perhaps many others.

To me, it seems your idea is mistaken concerning the nature of silence, the

mind, ego etc.

It comes down to " two roads diverged in a wood. " Since you think you are

correct you will proceed in life down your road or set of opinions and I down

mine. Ten years from today, we can meet again and discuss our adventures and

see

where our choices have taken us.

 

Your first sentence: " To have a quiet mind is a wonderful thing, but this is

not a choice that an individual can make. " I see as a problem. Obviously,

some individuals can make that choice since for thousands of years, millions has

attempted and enjoyed the fruits of meditation and the practice of inner

silence as a way to know, expererience and see the reality and truth of our

nature

and life itself.. Maybe its a choice you and Len cannot make at this time,

and I accept that, sort of.

 

L.E: You write: " after all, the mind is being stilled and so what is there

to look at? " Actually, it is not the mind that is being stilled, it is the

defensive ego that is being stilled since there is nothing for it to be

concerned with except inner experience. Maybe there is nothing outside to look

at, but

many thoughts and visuals will occur and can be " looked at. " i'm not sure if

it's the ego that observes or the mind that becomes aware of itself that

happens, but the end of the process is that state of Being Itself, just being,

awareness itself in a open and receptive state. Which is a treasure of great

value so to speak.

 

 

Then you write: " Thoughts of anger, judgment, projections, defenses can

continue without ever being challenged because, Ego can hide forever in plain

sight this way.

 

L.E: I don't think this is true. As long as these qualities are verbally

challenged, they persist and keep arising out of mind, and you are making ego

seem to be a " trickster " as whiley and conniving as the myth of the devil, which

I don't think it is.

I don't see the ego as having an independent existence that can hide forever

in plain sight like some kind of chameleon although I know you view is share

by some such as Eckhart Tolle.

 

The mind is stilled by exploring the truth about mind. Ego can only play

it's silly games in the dark.

 

L.E: Seems to me that your process of " exploring the truth " would be

supported by Krishnamurti, but I think this very process of " exploring " by the

ego,

maintains the ego and is futile and cannot reveal the nature of reality. And

again, you cannot dissovle the ego with the ego. You cannot fight thinking with

thinking.

 

When there is no more need to play unconscious ego games, there are no more

thoughts waiting to fill every still moment.

 

L.E: Ego games or the activity of the ego is not and is never unconscious.

The mind itself is hidden or subconscious but not the ego. The ego is you as

you are writing and thinking. It is not hidden. It is active as you. And I

think you are hoping and wishing that your thoughts which are you as ego, will

no longer fill every moment which they probably still do, so you are talking

about the someday, when your mind will stop talking and you can experience no

mind or inner silence.

 

If the mind is still not still, then it is already known why this is so,

and there's no need for the absurdity of doing battle with ones own thoughts.

 

L.E: Your sentence doesn't make sense to me. Sorry. When the mind is not

still it will not know why it is not still. It can't see or find its own

nature,

it can only subside or dissovle in the silence. And finally, that's is

exactly what you and Len, especially Len is doing which is having a battle with

your own thoughts. In this sense, your thinking is his projection and and his

thinking is your projection. You are thinking together about the thoughts of

each other and avoiding inwardness and doing battle with each other which is

doing battle with yourself. Face it. This process is very enjoyable and fun,

and that is why you do it. It is entertainment for both of you.

That's how it seems to me. If I am mistaken, my bad, and perhaps someday

I'll see it your way. Hard to say about how life unrolls in this endless here

and now moment.

 

Larry Epston