Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 In a message dated 4/9/2006 2:08:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lissbon2002 writes: > Be careful with claiming that there is no more such need. > Ego is very clever, and hides in every statement which isn´t > examined from scratch in every moment again and again. > And the layers of unconscious conflict are going extremely deep. > > Len > L.E: Your idea about the nature of the ego is exremely paranoid. Wake up! You are the ego, it is you the self you are talking about, is your own self, not something or someone separate from who you are. Your examination is the ego by the ego, the self by the self, and cannot solve the problems of conflict. You are creating the conflict as you continue with these false assumptions. If this is superiority, too bad, live with it, deal with it! You are a victim of your own intelligence and verbal skills. Stick in your own trap. Pathetic. Larry Epston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 In a message dated 4/9/2006 2:56:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 09:07:18 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Thinking As Avoidance of the Real Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > To have a quiet mind is a wonderful thing, but this is not a choice that an > individual can make. The mind does not quiet on command, at least not any > longer than a dedicated attention is focussed on just that. Such a choice is a > self deception, strategically designed by ego to assure that it's undercover > processes will never be revealed. Precisely. Self-deception is the main aim of spirituality. The moment you have an idealized goal, like striving for peace and harmony, suppression starts, learning ends. > Thoughts of anger, judgment, projections, defenses can continue without ever > being challenged because, after all, the mind is being stilled and so what > is there to look at? Ego can hide forever in plain sight this way. The mind is > stilled by exploring the truth about mind. Ego can only play it's silly games > in the dark. When there is no more need to play unconscious ego games, there > are no more thoughts waiting to fill every still moment. Be careful with claiming that there is no more such need. Ego is very clever, and hides in every statement which isn´t examined from scratch in every moment again and again. And the layers of unconscious conflict are going extremely deep. Len Yes, I've watched ego do it's thang in beginner seekers and in advanced seekers. What seems clear is that mostly what the advanced seeker learns is some impressively creative ego deceptions. I often wonder what would happen if only half of that creative dedication to ego deception were to be channeled into the search for Truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 L: Your first sentence: " To have a quiet mind is a wonderful thing, but this is not a choice that an individual can make. " I see as a problem. Obviously, some individuals can make that choice since for thousands of years, millions has attempted and enjoyed the fruits of meditation and the practice of inner silence as a way to know, expererience and see the reality and truth of our nature and life itself.. Maybe its a choice you and Len cannot make at this time, and I accept that, sort of. P: I didn't mean to imply that it never occurs. Happiness, acceptance, awakening occur, but these are not things you can choose to do right now. They occur through other dynamics. Yes, you can think happy thoughts for a while, and as long as you do, the feeling of happiness may continue, just as passively watching the thoughts will stop the thoughts as long as you watch, as mentioned before, but this is not a lifestyle. The mind won't remain still by choosing to keep it still. Nobody on this forum has a still mind all the time or they wouldn't be posting. L.E: I don't think this is true. As long as these qualities are verbally challenged, they persist and keep arising out of mind, and you are making ego seem to be a " trickster " as whiley and conniving as the myth of the devil, which I don't think it is. I don't see the ego as having an independent existence that can hide forever in plain sight like some kind of chameleon although I know you view is share by some such as Eckhart Tolle. P: The ego has no independent existence, but there is self deception. One of the most effective deceptions is that nothing need be looked at; no need to peek behind the curtain at the unconscious-ego man at the controls. L.E: Seems to me that your process of " exploring the truth " would be supported by Krishnamurti, but I think this very process of " exploring " by the ego, maintains the ego and is futile and cannot reveal the nature of reality. P: Exploring ego is designed to reveal unconscious processes, not reveal Truth. At some point, everything must be surrendered in order to reveal Truth. How does one surrender unconscious ego processes? The answer is, one never does that, since the unconscious ego processes will make that appear to be a bad idea. Does surrendering ego sound like a bad idea to you? L: And again, you cannot dissovle the ego with the ego. You cannot fight thinking with thinking. P: Well, that contradicts your claim that the mind can choose to stop the mind, but I'm not talking about either of these things. The mind thinks because it's motivated to think. What if that motivation changes? How would that change in motivation come about? You're basically saying thoughts cannot change one's way of thinking. This is not so. L.E: Ego games or the activity of the ego is not and is never unconscious. The mind itself is hidden or subconscious but not the ego. The ego is you as you are writing and thinking. It is not hidden. It is active as you. P: Of course it's unconscious. When you criticize the folks here for not being kind and for calling each other names, this is an unconscious projection and you're not aware that you express more anger and name calling than anyone here. You don't see this because the whole process is unconscious to you. You can't reveal the process because you've concluded that it shouldn't be looked at. You concluded this with the unconscious motivation to not threaten this unconscious process. L.E: Your sentence doesn't make sense to me. Sorry. When the mind is not still it will not know why it is not still. It can't see or find its own nature, it can only subside or dissovle in the silence P: you can't find it because you haven't looked. You haven't looked because you don't want to see, then you tell me that seeing the mind's nature can't be done because you can't do it. This is how unconscious ego eats our lunch. In a message dated 4/9/2006 2:56:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:55:19 EDT epston Thinking As Avoidance of the Real In a message dated 4/9/2006 1:55:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > > In a message dated 4/8/2006 4:23:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > lissbon2002 writes: > > >I see what you mean, Phil, this was also my reasoning first, > >but in this case it was interesting to notice a subtle, interesting > >difference between not facing some feeling because the sensation > >of it is just too scary, and not facing something which isn´t > >difficult to face at all, and where the only obstacle is stubbornness. > > > >Len > > > L.E: A great example of how the mind creates endless difficulties for > itself as it attracts attention to its endless phantasy of problems that > just go > on and on and will never be resolved until the person just dies, or somehow > > >gives up and realizes that he is just endlessly stirring up clouds of dust > > so he > won't see the simple truth of being in the present and just feeling alive > with a quiet mind that stops doing that. > And he finds co-dependents to nurture support his obsession with himself > and > his mind-stuff. On and on, no resolution, just continual mind-fluff over > and over, attracting others attention to keep his illusion of significance > alive. > > Larry Epston > > > > > To have a quiet mind is a wonderful thing, but this is not a choice that an > > individual can make. after all, the mind is being stilled and so what > is there to look at? > Thoughts of anger, judgment, projections, defenses can continue without > ever > being challenged because, Ego can hide forever in plain sight this way. The > mind is stilled by exploring the truth about mind. Ego can only play it's > silly games > in the dark. When there is no more need to play unconscious ego games, there > > are no more thoughts waiting to fill every still moment. If the mind is > still not still, then it is already known why this is so, and there's no > need for > the absurdity of doing battle with ones own thoughts. > L.E: Your comments are really interesting to me as they clearly describe essential differences in vision and approach between us and perhaps many others. To me, it seems your idea is mistaken concerning the nature of silence, the mind, ego etc. It comes down to " two roads diverged in a wood. " Since you think you are correct you will proceed in life down your road or set of opinions and I down mine. Ten years from today, we can meet again and discuss our adventures and see where our choices have taken us. Your first sentence: " To have a quiet mind is a wonderful thing, but this is not a choice that an individual can make. " I see as a problem. Obviously, some individuals can make that choice since for thousands of years, millions has attempted and enjoyed the fruits of meditation and the practice of inner silence as a way to know, expererience and see the reality and truth of our nature and life itself.. Maybe its a choice you and Len cannot make at this time, and I accept that, sort of. L.E: You write: " after all, the mind is being stilled and so what is there to look at? " Actually, it is not the mind that is being stilled, it is the defensive ego that is being stilled since there is nothing for it to be concerned with except inner experience. Maybe there is nothing outside to look at, but many thoughts and visuals will occur and can be " looked at. " i'm not sure if it's the ego that observes or the mind that becomes aware of itself that happens, but the end of the process is that state of Being Itself, just being, awareness itself in a open and receptive state. Which is a treasure of great value so to speak. Then you write: " Thoughts of anger, judgment, projections, defenses can continue without ever being challenged because, Ego can hide forever in plain sight this way. L.E: I don't think this is true. As long as these qualities are verbally challenged, they persist and keep arising out of mind, and you are making ego seem to be a " trickster " as whiley and conniving as the myth of the devil, which I don't think it is. I don't see the ego as having an independent existence that can hide forever in plain sight like some kind of chameleon although I know you view is share by some such as Eckhart Tolle. The mind is stilled by exploring the truth about mind. Ego can only play it's silly games in the dark. L.E: Seems to me that your process of " exploring the truth " would be supported by Krishnamurti, but I think this very process of " exploring " by the ego, maintains the ego and is futile and cannot reveal the nature of reality. And again, you cannot dissovle the ego with the ego. You cannot fight thinking with thinking. When there is no more need to play unconscious ego games, there are no more thoughts waiting to fill every still moment. L.E: Ego games or the activity of the ego is not and is never unconscious. The mind itself is hidden or subconscious but not the ego. The ego is you as you are writing and thinking. It is not hidden. It is active as you. And I think you are hoping and wishing that your thoughts which are you as ego, will no longer fill every moment which they probably still do, so you are talking about the someday, when your mind will stop talking and you can experience no mind or inner silence. If the mind is still not still, then it is already known why this is so, and there's no need for the absurdity of doing battle with ones own thoughts. L.E: Your sentence doesn't make sense to me. Sorry. When the mind is not still it will not know why it is not still. It can't see or find its own nature, it can only subside or dissovle in the silence. And finally, that's is exactly what you and Len, especially Len is doing which is having a battle with your own thoughts. In this sense, your thinking is his projection and and his thinking is your projection. You are thinking together about the thoughts of each other and avoiding inwardness and doing battle with each other which is doing battle with yourself. Face it. This process is very enjoyable and fun, and that is why you do it. It is entertainment for both of you. That's how it seems to me. If I am mistaken, my bad, and perhaps someday I'll see it your way. Hard to say about how life unrolls in this endless here and now moment. Larry Epston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 In a message dated 4/9/2006 12:06:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 06:02:34 EDT epston Thinking As Avoidance of the Real In a message dated 4/9/2006 2:08:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lissbon2002 writes: > Be careful with claiming that there is no more such need. > Ego is very clever, and hides in every statement which isn´t > examined from scratch in every moment again and again. > And the layers of unconscious conflict are going extremely deep. > > Len > L.E: Your idea about the nature of the ego is exremely paranoid. Wake up! You are the ego, it is you the self you are talking about, is your own self, not something or someone separate from who you are. Your examination is the ego by the ego, the self by the self, and cannot solve the problems of conflict. You are creating the conflict as you continue with these false assumptions. If this is superiority, too bad, live with it, deal with it! You are a victim of your own intelligence and verbal skills. Stick in your own trap. Pathetic. Larry Epston Do you even wonder why Len's words triggered your anger? This is something that your unexamined ego doesn't want you to see, and so far the self deception is firmly in place. It's a strange irony to be controlled by one's own unconscious thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/9/2006 2:56:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sun, 09 Apr 2006 09:07:18 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Thinking As Avoidance of the Real > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > To have a quiet mind is a wonderful thing, but this is not a > choice that an > > individual can make. The mind does not quiet on command, at least > not any > > longer than a dedicated attention is focussed on just that. Such > a choice is a > > self deception, strategically designed by ego to assure that it's > undercover > > processes will never be revealed. > > > > Precisely. Self-deception is the main aim of spirituality. > The moment you have an idealized goal, like striving for peace and > harmony, suppression starts, learning ends. > > > > > > Thoughts of anger, judgment, projections, defenses can continue > without ever > > being challenged because, after all, the mind is being stilled and > so what > > is there to look at? Ego can hide forever in plain sight this way. > The mind is > > stilled by exploring the truth about mind. Ego can only play it's > silly games > > in the dark. When there is no more need to play unconscious ego > games, there > > are no more thoughts waiting to fill every still moment. > > > > Be careful with claiming that there is no more such need. > Ego is very clever, and hides in every statement which isn´t > examined from scratch in every moment again and again. > And the layers of unconscious conflict are going extremely deep. > > Len > > > > Yes, I've watched ego do it's thang in beginner seekers and in advanced > seekers. What seems clear is that mostly what the advanced seeker learns is some > impressively creative ego deceptions. I often wonder what would happen if only > half of that creative dedication to ego deception were to be channeled into > the search for Truth. Plenty of energy which is currently being wasted on producing, perpetuating and protecting images, would be available for learning. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > P: The ego has no independent existence, but there is self deception. One of > the most effective deceptions is that nothing need be looked at; no need to > peek behind the curtain at the unconscious-ego man at the controls. > > P: Exploring ego is designed to reveal unconscious processes, not reveal > Truth. At some point, everything must be surrendered in order to reveal Truth. > How does one surrender unconscious ego processes? The answer is, one never > does that, since the unconscious ego processes will make that appear to be a bad > idea. Does surrendering ego sound like a bad idea to you? The idea of surrendering is not surrendering itself. I think that many people find surrendering a great idea, and love talking and dreaming about it. Every idea, no matter what content, is a way to perpetuate the " me " . Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:04:04 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Thinking As Avoidance of the Real Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > P: The ego has no independent existence, but there is self deception. One of > the most effective deceptions is that nothing need be looked at; no need to > peek behind the curtain at the unconscious-ego man at the controls. > > P: Exploring ego is designed to reveal unconscious processes, not reveal > Truth. At some point, everything must be surrendered in order to reveal Truth. > How does one surrender unconscious ego processes? The answer is, one never > does that, since the unconscious ego processes will make that appear to be a bad > idea. Does surrendering ego sound like a bad idea to you? The idea of surrendering is not surrendering itself. I think that many people find surrendering a great idea, and love talking and dreaming about it. Every idea, no matter what content, is a way to perpetuate the " me " . Len My experience is that surprisingly few think surrendering is a good idea at all, but of course you're right, the idea of surrender is not surrendering, nor is there a conscious choice to surrender. Surrender comes about through the understanding of the foolishness of struggle. Ironically, the same mind/ego that created the struggle comes to understand that it can never be victorious over it's own creations, and begins to realize there's a better way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:04:04 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Thinking As Avoidance of the Real > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > P: The ego has no independent existence, but there is self > deception. One of > > the most effective deceptions is that nothing need be looked at; > no need to > > peek behind the curtain at the unconscious-ego man at the controls. > > > > > P: Exploring ego is designed to reveal unconscious processes, not > reveal > > Truth. At some point, everything must be surrendered in order to > reveal Truth. > > How does one surrender unconscious ego processes? The answer is, > one never > > does that, since the unconscious ego processes will make that > appear to be a bad > > idea. Does surrendering ego sound like a bad idea to you? > > > > The idea of surrendering is not surrendering itself. > I think that many people find surrendering a great idea, and love > talking and dreaming about it. > Every idea, no matter what content, is a way to perpetuate the " me " . > > Len > > > > My experience is that surprisingly few think surrendering is a good idea at > all, but of course you're right, the idea of surrender is not surrendering, > nor is there a conscious choice to surrender. Surrender comes about through the > understanding of the foolishness of struggle. Ironically, the same mind/ego > that created the struggle comes to understand that it can never be victorious > over it's own creations, and begins to realize there's a better way. > > Phil..I've been struggling with this for a long time. And I have no idea how to surrender. But something is beggining to realize and understand. That's the victory of irony for you. .......bob > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 In a message dated 4/11/2006 3:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:13:21 -0000 " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 Re: Thinking As Avoidance of the Real Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:04:04 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Thinking As Avoidance of the Real > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > P: The ego has no independent existence, but there is self > deception. One of > > the most effective deceptions is that nothing need be looked at; > no need to > > peek behind the curtain at the unconscious-ego man at the controls. > > > > > P: Exploring ego is designed to reveal unconscious processes, not > reveal > > Truth. At some point, everything must be surrendered in order to > reveal Truth. > > How does one surrender unconscious ego processes? The answer is, > one never > > does that, since the unconscious ego processes will make that > appear to be a bad > > idea. Does surrendering ego sound like a bad idea to you? > > > > The idea of surrendering is not surrendering itself. > I think that many people find surrendering a great idea, and love > talking and dreaming about it. > Every idea, no matter what content, is a way to perpetuate the " me " . > > Len > > > > My experience is that surprisingly few think surrendering is a good idea at > all, but of course you're right, the idea of surrender is not surrendering, > nor is there a conscious choice to surrender. Surrender comes about through the > understanding of the foolishness of struggle. Ironically, the same mind/ego > that created the struggle comes to understand that it can never be victorious > over it's own creations, and begins to realize there's a better way. > > Phil..I've been struggling with this for a long time. And I have no idea how to surrender. But something is beggining to realize and understand. That's the victory of irony for you. ........bob Cool. As we know(I think), there is no conscious choosing of anything that is real from our place within the illusion. All that we can do is move around the blocks in our play pen. But this doesn't mean that nothing of importance is happening here. On the contrary, the illusion is in the process of dissolving itself here, and the willingness to allow that to occur happens when we're ready for that to occur. Another irony is that this nonvolitional being always gets exactly what it wants but mostly keeps itself ignorant of that fact, and what it wants is the same as what 'God' wants. Funny how that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/11/2006 3:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:13:21 -0000 > " Bob N. " <Roberibus111 > Re: Thinking As Avoidance of the Real > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/10/2006 3:47:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:04:04 -0000 > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > Re: Thinking As Avoidance of the Real > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > P: The ego has no independent existence, but there is self > > deception. One of > > > the most effective deceptions is that nothing need be looked at; > > no need to > > > peek behind the curtain at the unconscious-ego man at the > controls. > > > > > > > > P: Exploring ego is designed to reveal unconscious processes, > not > > reveal > > > Truth. At some point, everything must be surrendered in order to > > reveal Truth. > > > How does one surrender unconscious ego processes? The answer is, > > one never > > > does that, since the unconscious ego processes will make that > > appear to be a bad > > > idea. Does surrendering ego sound like a bad idea to you? > > > > > > > > The idea of surrendering is not surrendering itself. > > I think that many people find surrendering a great idea, and love > > talking and dreaming about it. > > Every idea, no matter what content, is a way to perpetuate > the " me " . > > > > Len > > > > > > > > My experience is that surprisingly few think surrendering is a good > idea at > > all, but of course you're right, the idea of surrender is not > surrendering, > > nor is there a conscious choice to surrender. Surrender comes > about through the > > understanding of the foolishness of struggle. Ironically, the same > mind/ego > > that created the struggle comes to understand that it can never be > victorious > > over it's own creations, and begins to realize there's a better > way. > > > > Phil..I've been struggling with this for a long time. And I have no > idea how to surrender. But something is beggining to realize and > understand. That's the victory of irony for you. > .......bob > > > > > Cool. > As we know(I think), there is no conscious choosing of anything that is real > from our place within the illusion. All that we can do is move around the > blocks in our play pen. But this doesn't mean that nothing of importance is > happening here. On the contrary, the illusion is in the process of dissolving > itself here, and the willingness to allow that to occur happens when we're ready > for that to occur. > > Another irony is that this nonvolitional being always gets exactly what it > wants but mostly keeps itself ignorant of that fact, and what it wants is the > same as what 'God' wants. Funny how that happens. > > God's a funny guy......and very cool. And this is not a joke. Too bad and so sad that so few get the humour or the cool. Miles Davis' album: Birth of the Cool " is a better sermon on the cool and funny Truth, then all the words spoken from a priestly pulpit....that's gonna be my Easter music with a tad bit of Bach: Magnificat; Easter Oratorio. Try them both this Sunday and see if it doesn't ring true for you too. Joyous and Cool and Fun stuff. A perfect Springtime concert.........Surrender to the Muse but don't lose sight of the True. ...........bob > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > Another irony is that this nonvolitional being always gets exactly what it > wants but mostly keeps itself ignorant of that fact, and what it wants is the > same as what 'God' wants. Funny how that happens. It´s because this " non-volitional " being is all volition ;-) Whe there is no volition there is no " non volitional " being. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 In a message dated 4/9/2006 10:51:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > Do you even wonder why Len's words triggered your anger? This is something > > that your unexamined ego doesn't want you to see, and so far the self > deception > is firmly in place. It's a strange irony to be controlled by one's own > unconscious thoughts. > L.E: Where do you get the idea that I feel angry? Don't confuse intensity with anger. You can't examine the ego as you are the ego. And there is no such thing as being controlled by your own unconscious thoughts. You are an expression of subconsciousous thought, the mind. The mind which is mostly hidden, expresses the ego or the self. You are not controlled, you ARE the expression of subconscious thoughts. That's how it seems to me. Larry Epston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 In a message dated 4/12/2006 5:58:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:14:11 EDT epston Re: Thinking As Avoidance of the Real In a message dated 4/9/2006 10:51:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > Do you even wonder why Len's words triggered your anger? This is something > > that your unexamined ego doesn't want you to see, and so far the self > deception > is firmly in place. It's a strange irony to be controlled by one's own > unconscious thoughts. > L.E: Where do you get the idea that I feel angry? Don't confuse intensity with anger. You can't examine the ego as you are the ego. And there is no such thing as being controlled by your own unconscious thoughts. You are an expression of subconsciousous thought, the mind. The mind which is mostly hidden, expresses the ego or the self. You are not controlled, you ARE the expression of subconscious thoughts. That's how it seems to me. Larry Epston Well, that's the whole thing, Larry. You aren't the ego. If you were, you would be right and you wouldn't be able to see it. As it is, you can observe your own thoughts and feelings, and you can examine your own motives and find all manner of self deception and silly ego games. The self deception is not the mind trying to control 'you' but rather the result of the childish motivation to try to have your cake and eat it too. (Not meant to be personal, Larry, it's a process that goes on in us all.) So, you disagree with folks " intensely " , to the point of calling them insulting names, and you see this as some sort of intensity rather than anger. You enjoy this " intensity " and that's why you hide your true motivations and feelings from yourself. If you knew it was an ego game that enables you to enjoy your self righteousness and feel perfectly justified in your judgment, how could you justify doing it? So, you read this and conclude I'm an idiot and start to insult me, and the beat goes on. See how that works? Prolly not, but somebody else might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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