Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now seems > interesting to question. > What is a healthy ego? > Does such a thing exist? > > Len > healthy ego exist when unhealthy ego pairs it. > Patricia I don´t understand what you mean. Len .................................................... Our world is made of opposites and you can`t have something without its opposite. Days and nights succeed each other, birth and death, love and hate, healthy and unhealthy, interest-disinterest, sorrow and joy... That is what keeps this field of life uncristallized. Patricia And so you must be sick half the time, and dishonest half time, and sleep 12 hours a day? Is that what duality means to you? That sounds suspiciously like Larryism. Phil Very good question Phil. Ego is definitely dual: born from a father and mother, living then dying,...... every thing about ego is prone to duality. Because of its constant changeability we call it illusory, (within eternity,) but real within the confine of time, and its law of cause and effect. But you know all that. As a child, I was acutely aware of dialectics, opposites, and how things rise shine and fall in a very predictable manner. As an adult,I`ve been looking for a constance because I know there must be, I <remember> it, and observe it. I also know it isn`t within time. Which I am made of. Then I also know of that constance, a sense of presence and that is what I am attracted too. Sticking with that presence, laws of duality are maybe not altered but somehow I, as ego, is less prone to it. Because I don`t provoque them as much. I stay more in the middle, my pendulum is going less and less left and right, because oneness with the axle, that neutral point of presence, is my home. As there is less and less ego, there is less friction of opposites. Dishonesty doesn`t interest me, nor being honest. And I don`t feel that my ego is more healthy then yours or Len`s. Drop them both and you are left with being in the axle. What I love, what interest me, I cannot put into words, yet is very alive and there at all time and it is very attractive, I can sense it and feel it and I can even choose it. My interest isn`t about being healthy, it is about staying in communion with where my axle is felt, in my heart, because healthyness and honesty radiates from there and there only. Patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 In a message dated 4/11/2006 3:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:05:29 +0200 (CEST) OConnor Patricia <gdtige Re: healthy ego Phil > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now seems > interesting to question. > What is a healthy ego? > Does such a thing exist? > > Len > healthy ego exist when unhealthy ego pairs it. > Patricia I don´t understand what you mean. Len .................................................... Our world is made of opposites and you can`t have something without its opposite. Days and nights succeed each other, birth and death, love and hate, healthy and unhealthy, interest-disinterest, sorrow and joy... That is what keeps this field of life uncristallized. Patricia And so you must be sick half the time, and dishonest half time, and sleep 12 hours a day? Is that what duality means to you? That sounds suspiciously like Larryism. Phil Very good question Phil. Ego is definitely dual: born from a father and mother, living then dying,...... every thing about ego is prone to duality. Because of its constant changeability we call it illusory, (within eternity,) but real within the confine of time, and its law of cause and effect. But you know all that. As a child, I was acutely aware of dialectics, opposites, and how things rise shine and fall in a very predictable manner. As an adult,I`ve been looking for a constance because I know there must be, I <remember> it, and observe it. I also know it isn`t within time. Which I am made of. Then I also know of that constance, a sense of presence and that is what I am attracted too. Sticking with that presence, laws of duality are maybe not altered but somehow I, as ego, is less prone to it. Because I don`t provoque them as much. I stay more in the middle, my pendulum is going less and less left and right, because oneness with the axle, that neutral point of presence, is my home. As there is less and less ego, there is less friction of opposites. Dishonesty doesn`t interest me, nor being honest. And I don`t feel that my ego is more healthy then yours or Len`s. Drop them both and you are left with being in the axle. What I love, what interest me, I cannot put into words, yet is very alive and there at all time and it is very attractive, I can sense it and feel it and I can even choose it. My interest isn`t about being healthy, it is about staying in communion with where my axle is felt, in my heart, because healthyness and honesty radiates from there and there only. Patricia And I accept the value of that 'process' for you, and how am I to say it's not best? The discussion was simply about whether or not an integrated ego is possible, and you seemed to be saying no. I don't talk about it cause I have no need to, but to the extent that an ego can remain and be free of unconscious processes, I believe that's where I am. I can sometimes go weeks without any upset over anything, I have a relationship virtually conflict free and very loving and supportive, There are no conflicts with anyone in my life, there is much joy and peace, and there is a deep longing remaining which is not experienced as suffering. I've had some powerful meditative experiences, but I believe it's not my path to fall in love with these experiences but rather to seek truth within the self, and then to seek a greater Truth. Nothing is resisted, and so it can be seen that, if the search with the illusory mind into these illusory concepts is still happening, then it is allowed to happen and it has a purpose, but the thinkingness is almost gone. The concepts I prattle about here are not from my mind and my thinkingness, but instead are conceptual translations of what is seen intuitively. It's clear to me that this intuition would not be possible, and was not possible, while ego remained non-integrous. From my perspective, it seems clear to me why a path of ego integrity is not a popular one. It hasn't been easy and is very humbling, but this is the point of it all. I admire folks like Len who are on such a path cause I know exactly how much courage it requires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 --- ADHHUB a écrit : In a message dated 4/11/2006 3:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:05:29 +0200 (CEST) OConnor Patricia <gdtige Re: healthy ego Phil > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now seems > interesting to question. > What is a healthy ego? > Does such a thing exist? > > Len > healthy ego exist when unhealthy ego pairs it. > Patricia I don´t understand what you mean. Len .................................................... Our world is made of opposites and you can`t have something without its opposite. Days and nights succeed each other, birth and death, love and hate, healthy and unhealthy, interest-disinterest, sorrow and joy... That is what keeps this field of life uncristallized. Patricia And so you must be sick half the time, and dishonest half time, and sleep 12 hours a day? Is that what duality means to you? That sounds suspiciously like Larryism. Phil Very good question Phil. Ego is definitely dual: born from a father and mother, living then dying,...... every thing about ego is prone to duality. Because of its constant changeability we call it illusory, (within eternity,) but real within the confine of time, and its law of cause and effect. But you know all that. As a child, I was acutely aware of dialectics, opposites, and how things rise shine and fall in a very predictable manner. As an adult,I`ve been looking for a constance because I know there must be, I <remember> it, and observe it. I also know it isn`t within time. Which I am made of. Then I also know of that constance, a sense of presence and that is what I am attracted too. Sticking with that presence, laws of duality are maybe not altered but somehow I, as ego, is less prone to it. Because I don`t provoque them as much. I stay more in the middle, my pendulum is going less and less left and right, because oneness with the axle, that neutral point of presence, is my home. As there is less and less ego, there is less friction of opposites. Dishonesty doesn`t interest me, nor being honest. And I don`t feel that my ego is more healthy then yours or Len`s. Drop them both and you are left with being in the axle. What I love, what interest me, I cannot put into words, yet is very alive and there at all time and it is very attractive, I can sense it and feel it and I can even choose it. My interest isn`t about being healthy, it is about staying in communion with where my axle is felt, in my heart, because healthyness and honesty radiates from there and there only. Patricia And I accept the value of that 'process' for you, and how am I to say it's not best? The discussion was simply about whether or not an integrated ego is possible, and you seemed to be saying no. I don't talk about it cause I have no need to, but to the extent that an ego can remain and be free of unconscious processes, I believe that's where I am. I can sometimes go weeks without any upset over anything, I have a relationship virtually conflict free and very loving and supportive, There are no conflicts with anyone in my life, there is much joy and peace, and there is a deep longing remaining which is not experienced as suffering. I've had some powerful meditative experiences, but I believe it's not my path to fall in love with these experiences but rather to seek truth within the self, and then to seek a greater Truth. Nothing is resisted, and so it can be seen that, if the search with the illusory mind into these illusory concepts is still happening, then it is allowed to happen and it has a purpose, but the thinkingness is almost gone. The concepts I prattle about here are not from my mind and my thinkingness, but instead are conceptual translations of what is seen intuitively. It's clear to me that this intuition would not be possible, and was not possible, while ego remained non-integrous. From my perspective, it seems clear to me why a path of ego integrity is not a popular one. It hasn't been easy and is very humbling, but this is the point of it all. I admire folks like Len who are on such a path cause I know exactly how much courage it requires. ............................................ Integrated ego is of interest to me only if it is a consequence of going back to who I really am. Otherwise, I prefer unintegrated egos, struuggling, messing up but on the move. There are too many very satisfied integrated egos around here. They are well fed, well balanced, they do yoga, they meditate for peace of mind, they avoid conflict yet thet aren`t hot nor cold, they are luckwarm..They have no sense of joy or deep peace like you mention, and forget longing all together. And yet they are integrated. just thought I`d make that small distinction. Patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 In a message dated 4/12/2006 5:58:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 23:17:41 +0200 (CEST) OConnor Patricia <gdtige Re: healthy ego Phil --- ADHHUB a écrit : In a message dated 4/11/2006 3:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:05:29 +0200 (CEST) OConnor Patricia <gdtige Re: healthy ego Phil > > > > Actually, I was too quick, and jumped over this part, which now seems > interesting to question. > What is a healthy ego? > Does such a thing exist? > > Len > healthy ego exist when unhealthy ego pairs it. > Patricia I don´t understand what you mean. Len .................................................... Our world is made of opposites and you can`t have something without its opposite. Days and nights succeed each other, birth and death, love and hate, healthy and unhealthy, interest-disinterest, sorrow and joy... That is what keeps this field of life uncristallized. Patricia And so you must be sick half the time, and dishonest half time, and sleep 12 hours a day? Is that what duality means to you? That sounds suspiciously like Larryism. Phil Very good question Phil. Ego is definitely dual: born from a father and mother, living then dying,...... every thing about ego is prone to duality. Because of its constant changeability we call it illusory, (within eternity,) but real within the confine of time, and its law of cause and effect. But you know all that. As a child, I was acutely aware of dialectics, opposites, and how things rise shine and fall in a very predictable manner. As an adult,I`ve been looking for a constance because I know there must be, I <remember> it, and observe it. I also know it isn`t within time. Which I am made of. Then I also know of that constance, a sense of presence and that is what I am attracted too. Sticking with that presence, laws of duality are maybe not altered but somehow I, as ego, is less prone to it. Because I don`t provoque them as much. I stay more in the middle, my pendulum is going less and less left and right, because oneness with the axle, that neutral point of presence, is my home. As there is less and less ego, there is less friction of opposites. Dishonesty doesn`t interest me, nor being honest. And I don`t feel that my ego is more healthy then yours or Len`s. Drop them both and you are left with being in the axle. What I love, what interest me, I cannot put into words, yet is very alive and there at all time and it is very attractive, I can sense it and feel it and I can even choose it. My interest isn`t about being healthy, it is about staying in communion with where my axle is felt, in my heart, because healthyness and honesty radiates from there and there only. Patricia And I accept the value of that 'process' for you, and how am I to say it's not best? The discussion was simply about whether or not an integrated ego is possible, and you seemed to be saying no. I don't talk about it cause I have no need to, but to the extent that an ego can remain and be free of unconscious processes, I believe that's where I am. I can sometimes go weeks without any upset over anything, I have a relationship virtually conflict free and very loving and supportive, There are no conflicts with anyone in my life, there is much joy and peace, and there is a deep longing remaining which is not experienced as suffering. I've had some powerful meditative experiences, but I believe it's not my path to fall in love with these experiences but rather to seek truth within the self, and then to seek a greater Truth. Nothing is resisted, and so it can be seen that, if the search with the illusory mind into these illusory concepts is still happening, then it is allowed to happen and it has a purpose, but the thinkingness is almost gone. The concepts I prattle about here are not from my mind and my thinkingness, but instead are conceptual translations of what is seen intuitively. It's clear to me that this intuition would not be possible, and was not possible, while ego remained non-integrous. From my perspective, it seems clear to me why a path of ego integrity is not a popular one. It hasn't been easy and is very humbling, but this is the point of it all. I admire folks like Len who are on such a path cause I know exactly how much courage it requires. ............................................ Integrated ego is of interest to me only if it is a consequence of going back to who I really am. Otherwise, I prefer unintegrated egos, struuggling, messing up but on the move. There are too many very satisfied integrated egos around here. They are well fed, well balanced, they do yoga, they meditate for peace of mind, they avoid conflict yet thet aren`t hot nor cold, they are luckwarm..They have no sense of joy or deep peace like you mention, and forget longing all together. And yet they are integrated. just thought I`d make that small distinction. Patricia Thanks for that insight, Patricia. I'm sure that happens quite a bit though I can't say it's my personal experience or my experience with others. Possibly, because I don't see these folks as integrous at all. Some people work on perfecting their egos and this is what I see as spiritual ego. All the right things are done and the right words are used, the right sacred texts memorized. This is all designed to create the illusion of spiritual superiority and stability. It's the opposite of integrity, which is self honesty at it's core. Genuine ego work takes us away from everything others are doing and away from the spiritual marketplace and the latest gurus and latest meditations. The early part of ego exploration can be painful as we judge ourselves for every self deception that arises and every negative feeling that of course we can't control, and we eventually just surrender it all. We begin to notice that folks can't push our buttons anymore cause we've removed those unconscious triggers. We start to enjoy asking ourselves the truth questions, cause we've already seen the peace and self control that the work has brought us. The mind is calmer because it doesn't have to defend itself or build itself up any more. Self love is accomplished as the beloved is revealed from within. Peace increases, and in the presence of love and peace, there is joy. All the while, ego's needs and attachments become less and less and more things are allowed to simply happen, because they really don't matter anymore. Struggle fades and ego takes it's position in the corner of the mind and watches quietly to see if it's going to get more out of this process. To me, this seems like a fine position from which to seek the Truth beyond ego/mind. There is nothing lukewarm here. My mind is on fire with what is seen just beyond it, and yet I can take up the position of watcher any time, anywhere and the thoughts all but cease. What I see in my mind, as well as the expressions of love, compassion and gratitude that I see in my world bring tears to my eyes every day. I had no idea I was going to be rambling on about this, and I don't know why. I spose God has something in 'mind' for somebody here, or maybe it was just a reminder for me that it really is happening just as it needs to, and nothing at all has gone wrong. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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