Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 In a message dated 4/14/2006 2:31:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lissbon2002 writes: > > > >Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > >>And if you believe in the reality of something and it is a > reality, > >there is > >>no longer a need for the belief. Get it? > >> > >>Larry Epston > > > > This is what all fundamentalistic believers think. > > Len > L,E: If you understood what I wrote, you would write that. But this beings up the fundamental question, is there a state of mind, or condition of awareness etc. that is free of beliefs? Or do you think (believe) that beliefs conditions all perception? And to re-state my original idea, if something is true, a belief adds nothing to it, and is unecessary. Larry Epston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > In a message dated 4/14/2006 2:31:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > lissbon2002 writes: > > > > > > > >Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > >>And if you believe in the reality of something and it is a > > reality, > > >there is > > >>no longer a need for the belief. Get it? > > >> > > >>Larry Epston > > > > > > > > This is what all fundamentalistic believers think. > > > > Len > > > > L,E: If you understood what I wrote, you would write that. But this beings > up the fundamental question, is there a state of mind, or condition of > awareness etc. that is free of beliefs? Or do you think (believe) that beliefs > conditions all perception? And to re-state my original idea, if something is true, a > belief adds nothing to it, and is unecessary. > > Larry Epston The very nature of a belief is such, that it seems very real to the believer. Millions of people have been killed in name of a belief, and the killers were absolutely sure that their ideology was real. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 In Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > And if you believe in the reality of something and it is a there is no longer a need for the belief. Get it? >>>> >>>>Larry Epston >> >> >> >>This is what all fundamentalistic believers think. >> >>Len >> >L,E: If you understood what I wrote, you would'nt write that. But this brings up the fundamental question, is there a state of mind, or condition of awareness etc. that is free of beliefs? Or do you think (believe) that beliefs conditions all perception? And to re-state my original idea, if something is true, a>belief adds nothing to it, and is unecessary. > >Larry Epston The very nature of a belief is such, that it seems very real to the believer. Millions of people have been killed in name of a belief, and the killers were absolutely sure that their ideology was real. Len= L.E: It hard to communicate with someone who refuses to answer my questions. A belief stays a belief and is never real. When a person believes something is true and acts as if they know it is true, they are making a big mistake. A belief stays a belief. Beliefs are verbal statements or claims made by the self or ego which acts on behalf of mind which stores the various ideas that combine with feelings to compose beliefs. The ego, self carries out the conclusions of mind and may make the error that their beliefs and resulting ideology are real, and simply acts on the beliefs that they assume are true. If they are correct, and the belief is true they are acting from reality, if the belief is not true, they are acting from fantasy. My guiess is that most beliefs are not true and don't correspond to reality and that people proceed on varying degrees of fantasy all the time. And that applies to you and Phil as well. I try to be more tentative about things and avoid conclusions although that may not be obvious from my writings. That's why I use " probably " and " perhaps " a lot, and " maybe. " So I try to avoid making belief statements even though I may be mistaken about many things. I try to see reality as it is, but I may fail. Hard to tell isn't it? And yes, millions of people have been killed because of beliefs that are false, and many others have killed others because their beliefs are false. Of course the opposite is also true. Remember, there are believers on both sides of the gun, or the battle. Those who killed had beliefs and who were killed had their beliefs. Believers are both the victors and the victims There are only a few who can see the real as real, and act accordingly, of course, that's just my opinion and may not be accurate. > > Larry Epston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 In a message dated 4/14/2006 2:48:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:45:50 EDT epston Re: Are Beliefs Necessary? In a message dated 4/14/2006 2:31:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lissbon2002 writes: > > > >Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > >>And if you believe in the reality of something and it is a > reality, > >there is > >>no longer a need for the belief. Get it? > >> > >>Larry Epston > > > > This is what all fundamentalistic believers think. > > Len > L,E: If you understood what I wrote, you would write that. But this beings up the fundamental question, is there a state of mind, or condition of awareness etc. that is free of beliefs? Or do you think (believe) that beliefs conditions all perception? And to re-state my original idea, if something is true, a belief adds nothing to it, and is unecessary. Larry Epston I don't 'believe' it's possible to be free of beliefs. Beliefs arise out of experience and are not chosen, so cannot be unchosen. There is no 'unconditioning'. However, although all beliefs limit potential awareness of Truth, they are not the same. The concept of God as a cosmic papa is far more limiting than the belief of Self as the singular totality of Consciousness itself, and so there is a 'process' of spiritual evolution in which beliefs are expanded as far as the mind will allow. This is not done to discover Truth, but to prepare the mind to release even these expanded notions. If something is believed to be true, this is just another belief. Ultimate Truth is not a concept or belief at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.