Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:12:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lissbon2002 writes: > >L.E: How strange to personify the ego this way. Here we have the > ego or self choosing what is attractive and what is not attractive. Ego: > Wow! > I like that so i'll let it in, and No! That idea and experience is > unattractive so I'll just ignore it and keep it out and away from the real > Len who is > in there waiting for me, ego, to bring him information. Absurd! > > > >Larry Epston > > > Yes, too absurd to be true, isn´t it ;-) > > Len > > > L.E: Yes, either absurd or mental illness or a diseased ego if that is > possible. If the brain is diseased, will the mind and ego reflect it? If the mind is diseased will the brain or ego/self reflect it? Hard to say. I'd guess yes. I think the physical disease of the brain, the electrical energy of mind, and the interference patterns that form of the ego can all be diseased. The question then immerges, what is the normal functioning of each part if that can be determined? I suppose the norm is fitting into the social environment the human organism lives in, no matter how strange that environment my appear from the outside. More normal fits in and less normal doesn't. That guy who became a christian in Afganistan and was condemmed to death was less normal than those who fit in. They say he is insane and finally agreed to let him go to Italy rather than kill him for apostay(?) In this sense " normal " for the mind and ego is very relative to the culture, but remember, it is just a word. Larry Epston > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:34:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:34:09 EDT epston Re: The Ego As Split In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:12:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lissbon2002 writes: > >L.E: How strange to personify the ego this way. Here we have the > ego or self choosing what is attractive and what is not attractive. Ego: > Wow! > I like that so i'll let it in, and No! That idea and experience is > unattractive so I'll just ignore it and keep it out and away from the real > Len who is > in there waiting for me, ego, to bring him information. Absurd! > > > >Larry Epston > > > Yes, too absurd to be true, isn´t it ;-) > > Len > > > L.E: Yes, either absurd or mental illness or a diseased ego if that is > possible. If the brain is diseased, will the mind and ego reflect it? If the mind is diseased will the brain or ego/self reflect it? Hard to say. I'd guess yes. I think the physical disease of the brain, the electrical energy of mind, and the interference patterns that form of the ego can all be diseased. The question then immerges, what is the normal functioning of each part if that can be determined? I suppose the norm is fitting into the social environment the human organism lives in, no matter how strange that environment my appear from the outside. More normal fits in and less normal doesn't. That guy who became a christian in Afganistan and was condemmed to death was less normal than those who fit in. They say he is insane and finally agreed to let him go to Italy rather than kill him for apostay(?) In this sense " normal " for the mind and ego is very relative to the culture, but remember, it is just a word. Larry Epston So now, Len and I have diseased brains? Heheeee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:34:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:34:09 EDT > epston > Re: The Ego As Split > > In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:12:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > lissbon2002 writes: > > > >L.E: How strange to personify the ego this way. Here we have the > > ego or self choosing what is attractive and what is not attractive. Ego: > > Wow! > > I like that so i'll let it in, and No! That idea and experience is > > unattractive so I'll just ignore it and keep it out and away from the real > > Len who is > > in there waiting for me, ego, to bring him information. Absurd! > > > > > >Larry Epston > > > > > > Yes, too absurd to be true, isn´t it ;-) > > > > Len > > > > > > L.E: Yes, either absurd or mental illness or a diseased ego if that is > > possible. > > If the brain is diseased, will the mind and ego reflect it? > If the mind is diseased will the brain or ego/self reflect it? > Hard to say. I'd guess yes. I think the physical disease of the brain, the > electrical energy of mind, and the interference patterns that form of the > ego > can all be diseased. > The question then immerges, what is the normal functioning of each part if > that can be determined? I suppose the norm is fitting into the social > environment the human organism lives in, no matter how strange that > environment my > appear from the outside. More normal fits in and less normal doesn't. That > guy > who became a christian in Afganistan and was condemmed to death was less > normal > than those who fit in. They say he is insane and finally agreed to let him > go to Italy rather than kill him for apostay(?) In this sense " normal " for > the > mind and ego is very relative to the culture, but remember, it is just a > word. > > Larry Epston > > > > So now, Len and I have diseased brains? Heheeee. Is this what Larry said? You seem to be able to make some sense from his messages and often even respond to it in a meaningful way. While the only thing my brain seem to be able to produce as response is like: Oh Gee! Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:34:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:34:09 EDT > > epston@ > > Re: The Ego As Split > > > > In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:12:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > lissbon2002@ writes: > > > > > >L.E: How strange to personify the ego this way. Here we have > the > > > ego or self choosing what is attractive and what is not > attractive. Ego: > > > Wow! > > > I like that so i'll let it in, and No! That idea and > experience is > > > unattractive so I'll just ignore it and keep it out and away > from the real > > > Len who is > > > in there waiting for me, ego, to bring him information. Absurd! > > > > > > > >Larry Epston > > > > > > > > > Yes, too absurd to be true, isn´t it ;-) > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > L.E: Yes, either absurd or mental illness or a diseased ego if > that is > > > possible. > > > > If the brain is diseased, will the mind and ego reflect it? > > If the mind is diseased will the brain or ego/self reflect it? > > Hard to say. I'd guess yes. I think the physical disease of the > brain, the > > electrical energy of mind, and the interference patterns that > form of the > > ego > > can all be diseased. > > The question then immerges, what is the normal functioning of > each part if > > that can be determined? I suppose the norm is fitting into the > social > > environment the human organism lives in, no matter how strange > that > > environment my > > appear from the outside. More normal fits in and less normal > doesn't. That > > guy > > who became a christian in Afganistan and was condemmed to death > was less > > normal > > than those who fit in. They say he is insane and finally agreed > to let him > > go to Italy rather than kill him for apostay(?) In this > sense " normal " for > > the > > mind and ego is very relative to the culture, but remember, it is > just a > > word. > > > > Larry Epston > > > > > > > > So now, Len and I have diseased brains? Heheeee. > > > > > Is this what Larry said? > You seem to be able to make some sense from his messages and often > even respond to it in a meaningful way. > While the only thing my brain seem to be able to produce as response > is like: Oh Gee! > > Len > Len..you've noticed too eh? His words of wisdom baffle and flummox the wisest of any and all on earth. Legendary discombobulations and tintabulations are heard daily from the empty bell that is his head. Ring-a-ling, Ding-a-ling Larry challanges the world. Bang..Zoom...Right to the Moon Alice in Wonderland L.E. is second to none! Just exactly what for....I dunno? ;-))) ......bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 In a message dated 4/15/2006 7:33:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:19:57 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: The Ego As Split Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:34:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:34:09 EDT > epston > Re: The Ego As Split > > In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:12:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > lissbon2002 writes: > > > >L.E: How strange to personify the ego this way. Here we have the > > ego or self choosing what is attractive and what is not attractive. Ego: > > Wow! > > I like that so i'll let it in, and No! That idea and experience is > > unattractive so I'll just ignore it and keep it out and away from the real > > Len who is > > in there waiting for me, ego, to bring him information. Absurd! > > > > > >Larry Epston > > > > > > Yes, too absurd to be true, isn´t it ;-) > > > > Len > > > > > > L.E: Yes, either absurd or mental illness or a diseased ego if that is > > possible. > > If the brain is diseased, will the mind and ego reflect it? > If the mind is diseased will the brain or ego/self reflect it? > Hard to say. I'd guess yes. I think the physical disease of the brain, the > electrical energy of mind, and the interference patterns that form of the > ego > can all be diseased. > The question then immerges, what is the normal functioning of each part if > that can be determined? I suppose the norm is fitting into the social > environment the human organism lives in, no matter how strange that > environment my > appear from the outside. More normal fits in and less normal doesn't. That > guy > who became a christian in Afganistan and was condemmed to death was less > normal > than those who fit in. They say he is insane and finally agreed to let him > go to Italy rather than kill him for apostay(?) In this sense " normal " for > the > mind and ego is very relative to the culture, but remember, it is just a > word. > > Larry Epston > > > > So now, Len and I have diseased brains? Heheeee. Is this what Larry said? You seem to be able to make some sense from his messages and often even respond to it in a meaningful way. While the only thing my brain seem to be able to produce as response is like: Oh Gee! Len Well, I think that was the implication but I'm not really sure. To me, Larry has latched onto the useful idea of just letting everything be what it is, which might be one area where his beliefs and mine intersect. As a result, he doesn't look for anything that's not already present, because this looks like not letting things be the way they are. This is one of the ways ego distorts concepts for it's own use. The problem with that is that the limiting beliefs that are already held are never challenged, and so the boundaries that these beliefs create on awareness are held in place. Thoughts and feelings and motivations and fears are never looked at and so all manner of unconscious ego processes can continue to create judgment and struggle and misunderstanding and projection and none of it can ever change. He doesn't believe change (evolution) is good or useful or even possible, and he doesn't believe anything is occurring in his own mind that isn't obvious, or if there is, it can't be found, and so why look. Basically, the whole belief system is geared toward stagnation. Not taking responsibility for the self can have a freeing aspect in which everything can just be let go in the good times when none of these limitations and ego triggers come into play, and so I do believe he experiences some wonderful moments of presence in which all things are just allowed to be what they are. However, my guess is that these moments are fragile and short lived, and something soon comes along to rock him out of that blissful state cause most of his life is perceived as happening to him rather than arising out of his own perception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 In a message dated 4/15/2006 12:10:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lissbon2002 writes: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > >Well, I think that was the implication but I'm not really sure. > >To me, Larry has latched onto the useful idea of just letting > everything be > >what it is, which might be one area where his beliefs and mine > intersect. As a > > result, he doesn't look for anything that's not already present, > because > >this looks like not letting things be the way they are. This is > one of the ways > >ego distorts concepts for it's own use. > > > >The problem with that is that the limiting beliefs that are already > held are > >never challenged, and so the boundaries that these beliefs create > on > >awareness are held in place. Thoughts and feelings and motivations > and fears are > >never looked at and so all manner of unconscious ego processes can > continue to > >create judgment and struggle and misunderstanding and projection > and none of > >it can ever change. He doesn't believe change (evolution) is good > or useful or > >even possible, and he doesn't believe anything is occurring in his > own mind > >that isn't obvious, or if there is, it can't be found, and so why > look. > >Basically, the whole belief system is geared toward stagnation. > > > >Not taking responsibility for the self can have a freeing aspect in > which > >everything can just be let go in the good times when none of these > limitations > >and ego triggers come into play, and so I do believe he experiences > some > >wonderful moments of presence in which all things are just allowed > to be what > >they are. > > > > I'm sure he has some blissful moments, while having a pizza and a > cold beer on a sofa, in front of television. I've had some of those > wonderful moments too, when everything was just perfect, including > the cheese on top of the pizza :-) > > Len > > > > >However, my guess is that these moments are fragile and short > lived, > >and something soon comes along to rock him out of that blissful > state cause > >most of his life is perceived as happening to him rather than > arising out of > >his own perception. > > L.E: To me, beliefs have to be consciously and purposely advocated. I don't think there are unconscious or hidden beliefs so I disagree with much of your whole premise of reality. As I have said, you and Len seem to live in a myth rather than in a shared reality. Just as christians live in their myths, and muslims live in theirs and Jews are deeply involved in a fantasyland of mythology, you and Len also live in a mythic world of ideas, some of which are shared, which doesn't make them true, and related emotions that are sometimes mocking and sarcastic and unkind. Larry Epston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 In a message dated 4/15/2006 1:55:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:10:37 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: The Ego As Split Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > Well, I think that was the implication but I'm not really sure. > To me, Larry has latched onto the useful idea of just letting everything be > what it is, which might be one area where his beliefs and mine intersect. As a > result, he doesn't look for anything that's not already present, because > this looks like not letting things be the way they are. This is one of the ways > ego distorts concepts for it's own use. > > The problem with that is that the limiting beliefs that are already held are > never challenged, and so the boundaries that these beliefs create on > awareness are held in place. Thoughts and feelings and motivations and fears are > never looked at and so all manner of unconscious ego processes can continue to > create judgment and struggle and misunderstanding and projection and none of > it can ever change. He doesn't believe change (evolution) is good or useful or > even possible, and he doesn't believe anything is occurring in his own mind > that isn't obvious, or if there is, it can't be found, and so why look. > Basically, the whole belief system is geared toward stagnation. > > Not taking responsibility for the self can have a freeing aspect in which > everything can just be let go in the good times when none of these limitations > and ego triggers come into play, and so I do believe he experiences some > wonderful moments of presence in which all things are just allowed to be what > they are. I'm sure he has some blissful moments, while having a pizza and a cold beer on a sofa, in front of television. I've had some of those wonderful moments too, when everything was just perfect, including the cheese on top of the pizza :-) Len Pepperoni with extra cheese. Mmmm, perfection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > Well, I think that was the implication but I'm not really sure. > To me, Larry has latched onto the useful idea of just letting everything be > what it is, which might be one area where his beliefs and mine intersect. As a > result, he doesn't look for anything that's not already present, because > this looks like not letting things be the way they are. This is one of the ways > ego distorts concepts for it's own use. > > The problem with that is that the limiting beliefs that are already held are > never challenged, and so the boundaries that these beliefs create on > awareness are held in place. Thoughts and feelings and motivations and fears are > never looked at and so all manner of unconscious ego processes can continue to > create judgment and struggle and misunderstanding and projection and none of > it can ever change. He doesn't believe change (evolution) is good or useful or > even possible, and he doesn't believe anything is occurring in his own mind > that isn't obvious, or if there is, it can't be found, and so why look. > Basically, the whole belief system is geared toward stagnation. > > Not taking responsibility for the self can have a freeing aspect in which > everything can just be let go in the good times when none of these limitations > and ego triggers come into play, and so I do believe he experiences some > wonderful moments of presence in which all things are just allowed to be what > they are. I'm sure he has some blissful moments, while having a pizza and a cold beer on a sofa, in front of television. I've had some of those wonderful moments too, when everything was just perfect, including the cheese on top of the pizza :-) Len > However, my guess is that these moments are fragile and short lived, > and something soon comes along to rock him out of that blissful state cause > most of his life is perceived as happening to him rather than arising out of > his own perception. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 In a message dated 4/15/2006 3:01:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > I do believe he experiences > some > >wonderful moments of presence in which all things are just allowed > to be what > > they are. > > > > I'm sure he has some blissful moments, while having a pizza and a > cold beer on a sofa, in front of television. I've had some of those > wonderful moments too, when everything was just perfect, including > the cheese on top of the pizza :-) > > Len > > > Phil: Pepperoni with extra cheese. Mmmm, perfection! > > L.E: You wouldn't recognize perfection if it hit you in the face. You'd say its just another concept and a hidden trick of the ego that's out to get you. Larry Epston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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