Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Please don't post personal attacks on this board. Take it " outside " ...via email, webcam, phone, etc. Please respect the Satsang. Granted, Maharaj is not around to ask " any questions? " but at least please keep your comments relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur wrote: > > Please don't post personal attacks on this board. > Take it " outside " ...via email, webcam, phone, etc. > > Please respect the Satsang. Granted, Maharaj > is not around to ask " any questions? " but > at least please keep your comments relevant. You've got it as a promise from this end Hur. .....bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur wrote: > > Please don't post personal attacks on this board. > Take it " outside " ...via email, webcam, phone, etc. > > Please respect the Satsang. Granted, Maharaj > is not around to ask " any questions? " but > at least please keep your comments relevant. > ********* Yes. You have my word that I will strive to continue refraining from making any personal attacks on anyone. However, should someone like Larry, who instigates these disrespectful exchanges, even continue to have access to this list? He's out of control, Hur. I've tolerated him for quite a while now, trying to see his derogatory comments as an opportunity to learn more about myself and why I react/respond the way I do but I find him really disruptive and upsetting. I'm not learning anything from being called stupid and blind and such. I'm fed up with his b.s. and want him banished. Let the feeling of mutual respect between members of this list be restored by getting rid of him for the highest good of all. Please don't take my imploring lightly. I love this forum but if Larry's b.s. is allowed to continue, I'll just have to leave and I don't want to do that. So please consider banishing him. Thank you. Silver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 The only person who's on moderated status at this group is Judi. If the personal attacks continue on the board I will put the participants on moderated status. I don't like to do it because it creates more work for me. I'm not interested in who's right or wrong...to avoid being put on moderated status, just don't post/respond to such attacks on this board. As I mentioned before If you have a problem with another member, please take it " outside " via emails, webcam, phones, or start your own group for this purpose. Hur Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur wrote: > > Please don't post personal attacks on this board. > Take it " outside " ...via email, webcam, phone, etc. > > Please respect the Satsang. Granted, Maharaj > is not around to ask " any questions? " but > at least please keep your comments relevant. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 In a message dated 4/19/2006 5:42:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:26:56 -0000 " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069 Re: Personal Attacks Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur wrote: > > Please don't post personal attacks on this board. > Take it " outside " ...via email, webcam, phone, etc. > > Please respect the Satsang. Granted, Maharaj > is not around to ask " any questions? " but > at least please keep your comments relevant. > ********* Yes. You have my word that I will strive to continue refraining from making any personal attacks on anyone. However, should someone like Larry, who instigates these disrespectful exchanges, even continue to have access to this list? He's out of control, Hur. I've tolerated him for quite a while now, trying to see his derogatory comments as an opportunity to learn more about myself and why I react/respond the way I do but I find him really disruptive and upsetting. I'm not learning anything from being called stupid and blind and such. I'm fed up with his b.s. and want him banished. Let the feeling of mutual respect between members of this list be restored by getting rid of him for the highest good of all. Please don't take my imploring lightly. I love this forum but if Larry's b.s. is allowed to continue, I'll just have to leave and I don't want to do that. So please consider banishing him. Thank you. Silver I do understand your frustration, Silver, in fact, Bob's and Larry's frustration is also understandable. It's interesting that we've been discussing exploring these unconscious processes that lead to attack and defense, and then all this attacking and defending shows up. In my world, this isn't a 'coincidence', but rather an opportunity to do some real spiritual work. I know you've been trying to see the opportunity, but at what point did you stop looking for it and decide it wasn't about you at all but rather about somebody else? As was mentioned in the discussion, looking at our reactions and allowing them to be and sitting with them is likely the most difficult work there is on any spiritual path. This is why struggles, judgment and attachments continue for almost everyone, even those who are studying, and even comprehending, the teachings of the enlightened masters. The perfection of God's universe is such that what is occurring is already " for the highest good of all " , and if banishing is the highest choice that a community can make, perhaps it's time to ask ourselves what's gone horribly wrong with the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/19/2006 5:42:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:26:56 -0000 > " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069 > Re: Personal Attacks > > Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur@> wrote: > > > > Please don't post personal attacks on this board. > > Take it " outside " ...via email, webcam, phone, etc. > > > > Please respect the Satsang. Granted, Maharaj > > is not around to ask " any questions? " but > > at least please keep your comments relevant. > > > ********* > Yes. You have my word that I will strive to continue refraining from > making any personal attacks on anyone. However, should someone like > Larry, who instigates these disrespectful exchanges, even continue to > have access to this list? He's out of control, Hur. I've tolerated > him for quite a while now, trying to see his derogatory comments as an > opportunity to learn more about myself and why I react/respond the way > I do but I find him really disruptive and upsetting. I'm not learning > anything from being called stupid and blind and such. I'm fed up with > his b.s. and want him banished. Let the feeling of mutual respect > between members of this list be restored by getting rid of him for the > highest good of all. Please don't take my imploring lightly. I love > this forum but if Larry's b.s. is allowed to continue, I'll just have > to leave and I don't want to do that. So please consider banishing > him. Thank you. > > Silver > > > > I do understand your frustration, Silver, in fact, Bob's and Larry's > frustration is also understandable. It's interesting that we've been discussing > exploring these unconscious processes that lead to attack and defense, and then > all this attacking and defending shows up. In my world, this isn't a > 'coincidence', but rather an opportunity to do some real spiritual work. > > I know you've been trying to see the opportunity, but at what point did you > stop looking for it and decide it wasn't about you at all but rather about > somebody else? As was mentioned in the discussion, looking at our reactions and > allowing them to be and sitting with them is likely the most difficult work > there is on any spiritual path. This is why struggles, judgment and > attachments continue for almost everyone, even those who are studying, and even > comprehending, the teachings of the enlightened masters. > > The perfection of God's universe is such that what is occurring is already > " for the highest good of all " , and if banishing is the highest choice that a > community can make, perhaps it's time to ask ourselves what's gone horribly > wrong with the community. Unless the community decides to banish those who ask such question ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 In a message dated 4/19/2006 11:08:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:29:13 -0000 " Hur " <hur Re: Personal Attacks The only person who's on moderated status at this group is Judi. If the personal attacks continue on the board I will put the participants on moderated status. I don't like to do it because it creates more work for me. I'm not interested in who's right or wrong...to avoid being put on moderated status, just don't post/respond to such attacks on this board. As I mentioned before If you have a problem with another member, please take it " outside " via emails, webcam, phones, or start your own group for this purpose. Hur A clarification, please, Hur. I'm in a minority here in believing that ego explorations are of value, and I have been responding to some in the context of this exploration. There is no judgment here, although it no doubt appears to some others that there is. This surely adds fuel to the fire since there's no such thing as a peaceful ego exploration, and so that's why I'm asking. If it's your preference to not explore in this way on this forum, then I'll defer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 In a message dated 4/19/2006 9:35:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > A clarification, please, Hur. > I'm in a minority here in believing that ego explorations are of value, and > > I have been responding to some in the context of this exploration. There is > > no judgment here, although it no doubt appears to some others that there > is. > This surely adds fuel to the fire since there's no such thing as a peaceful > > ego exploration, and so that's why I'm asking. If it's your preference to > not > explore in this way on this forum, then I'll defer. > > L.E: Ego explorations are of value as long as they are respectful and descent. Bob's attacks were violent and abusive and not appropriate for this group or directed at a particular person like myself. I found his comments abusive and mean, and he should not have been supported or encouraged by Phil or any other who wants to do experiements on human subjects. After all, this is not a psychology lab and the members are not lab rats. Ego explorations are fine, but encouraging abuse and disrespect is not. And frankly, he should have been stopped long before he finally was and left because he has nothing else to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 In a message dated 4/19/2006 4:57:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:34:20 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Personal Attacks Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/19/2006 5:42:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:26:56 -0000 > " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069 > Re: Personal Attacks > > Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur@> wrote: > > > > Please don't post personal attacks on this board. > > Take it " outside " ...via email, webcam, phone, etc. > > > > Please respect the Satsang. Granted, Maharaj > > is not around to ask " any questions? " but > > at least please keep your comments relevant. > > > ********* > Yes. You have my word that I will strive to continue refraining from > making any personal attacks on anyone. However, should someone like > Larry, who instigates these disrespectful exchanges, even continue to > have access to this list? He's out of control, Hur. I've tolerated > him for quite a while now, trying to see his derogatory comments as an > opportunity to learn more about myself and why I react/respond the way > I do but I find him really disruptive and upsetting. I'm not learning > anything from being called stupid and blind and such. I'm fed up with > his b.s. and want him banished. Let the feeling of mutual respect > between members of this list be restored by getting rid of him for the > highest good of all. Please don't take my imploring lightly. I love > this forum but if Larry's b.s. is allowed to continue, I'll just have > to leave and I don't want to do that. So please consider banishing > him. Thank you. > > Silver > > > > I do understand your frustration, Silver, in fact, Bob's and Larry's > frustration is also understandable. It's interesting that we've been discussing > exploring these unconscious processes that lead to attack and defense, and then > all this attacking and defending shows up. In my world, this isn't a > 'coincidence', but rather an opportunity to do some real spiritual work. > > I know you've been trying to see the opportunity, but at what point did you > stop looking for it and decide it wasn't about you at all but rather about > somebody else? As was mentioned in the discussion, looking at our reactions and > allowing them to be and sitting with them is likely the most difficult work > there is on any spiritual path. This is why struggles, judgment and > attachments continue for almost everyone, even those who are studying, and even > comprehending, the teachings of the enlightened masters. > > The perfection of God's universe is such that what is occurring is already > " for the highest good of all " , and if banishing is the highest choice that a > community can make, perhaps it's time to ask ourselves what's gone horribly > wrong with the community. Unless the community decides to banish those who ask such question ;-) Len Yes, and you probly know this is almost always what happens, and will likely happen here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 In a message dated 4/20/2006 12:28:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 00:56:26 EDT epston Re: Personal Attacks In a message dated 4/19/2006 9:35:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > A clarification, please, Hur. > I'm in a minority here in believing that ego explorations are of value, and > > I have been responding to some in the context of this exploration. There is > > no judgment here, although it no doubt appears to some others that there > is. > This surely adds fuel to the fire since there's no such thing as a peaceful > > ego exploration, and so that's why I'm asking. If it's your preference to > not > explore in this way on this forum, then I'll defer. > > L.E: Ego explorations are of value as long as they are respectful and descent. Bob's attacks were violent and abusive and not appropriate for this group or directed at a particular person like myself. I found his comments abusive and mean, and he should not have been supported or encouraged by Phil or any other who wants to do experiements on human subjects. After all, this is not a psychology lab and the members are not lab rats. Ego explorations are fine, but encouraging abuse and disrespect is not. And frankly, he should have been stopped long before he finally was and left because he has nothing else to offer. Show me where I encouraged or supported Bob's abuse, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 In a message dated 4/19/2006 10:24:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > The perfection of God's universe is such that what is occurring is > already > > " for the highest good of all " , and if banishing is the highest > choice that a > > community can make, perhaps it's time to ask ourselves what's gone > horribly > >wrong with the community. > > Unless the community decides to banish those > who ask such question ;-) > > Len > > Yes, and you probly know this is almost always what happens, and will > likely > happen here. L.E: As you know, the community has no ability to make those decisions. This list is not a democracy. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/19/2006 4:57:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:34:20 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Personal Attacks > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/19/2006 5:42:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:26:56 -0000 > > " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069@> > > Re: Personal Attacks > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur@> wrote: > > > > > > Please don't post personal attacks on this board. > > > Take it " outside " ...via email, webcam, phone, etc. > > > > > > Please respect the Satsang. Granted, Maharaj > > > is not around to ask " any questions? " but > > > at least please keep your comments relevant. > > > > > ********* > > Yes. You have my word that I will strive to continue refraining > from > > making any personal attacks on anyone. However, should someone > like > > Larry, who instigates these disrespectful exchanges, even > continue to > > have access to this list? He's out of control, Hur. I've > tolerated > > him for quite a while now, trying to see his derogatory comments > as an > > opportunity to learn more about myself and why I react/respond > the way > > I do but I find him really disruptive and upsetting. I'm not > learning > > anything from being called stupid and blind and such. I'm fed up > with > > his b.s. and want him banished. Let the feeling of mutual > respect > > between members of this list be restored by getting rid of him > for the > > highest good of all. Please don't take my imploring lightly. I > love > > this forum but if Larry's b.s. is allowed to continue, I'll just > have > > to leave and I don't want to do that. So please consider > banishing > > him. Thank you. > > > > Silver > > > > > > > > I do understand your frustration, Silver, in fact, Bob's and > Larry's > > frustration is also understandable. It's interesting that we've > been discussing > > exploring these unconscious processes that lead to attack and > defense, and then > > all this attacking and defending shows up. In my world, this isn't > a > > 'coincidence', but rather an opportunity to do some real spiritual > work. > > > > I know you've been trying to see the opportunity, but at what > point did you > > stop looking for it and decide it wasn't about you at all but > rather about > > somebody else? As was mentioned in the discussion, looking at our > reactions and > > allowing them to be and sitting with them is likely the most > difficult work > > there is on any spiritual path. This is why struggles, judgment > and > > attachments continue for almost everyone, even those who are > studying, and even > > comprehending, the teachings of the enlightened masters. > > > > The perfection of God's universe is such that what is occurring is > already > > " for the highest good of all " , and if banishing is the highest > choice that a > > community can make, perhaps it's time to ask ourselves what's gone > horribly > > wrong with the community. > > > > Unless the community decides to banish those > who ask such question ;-) > > Len > > > > Yes, and you probly know this is almost always what happens, and will likely > happen here. Did it happen to you? Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 In a message dated 4/20/2006 4:38:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:36:45 EDT epston Re: Personal Attacks In a message dated 4/19/2006 10:24:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > The perfection of God's universe is such that what is occurring is > already > > " for the highest good of all " , and if banishing is the highest > choice that a > > community can make, perhaps it's time to ask ourselves what's gone > horribly > >wrong with the community. > > Unless the community decides to banish those > who ask such question ;-) > > Len > > Yes, and you probly know this is almost always what happens, and will > likely > happen here. L.E: As you know, the community has no ability to make those decisions. This list is not a democracy. Why would Hur feel it necessary to banish anyone if everybody started acting like grownups? That's up to the members of the 'community'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 In a message dated 4/20/2006 7:16:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:45:36 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Personal Attacks Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/19/2006 4:57:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:34:20 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Personal Attacks > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/19/2006 5:42:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:26:56 -0000 > > " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069@> > > Re: Personal Attacks > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur@> wrote: > > > > > > Please don't post personal attacks on this board. > > > Take it " outside " ...via email, webcam, phone, etc. > > > > > > Please respect the Satsang. Granted, Maharaj > > > is not around to ask " any questions? " but > > > at least please keep your comments relevant. > > > > > ********* > > Yes. You have my word that I will strive to continue refraining > from > > making any personal attacks on anyone. However, should someone > like > > Larry, who instigates these disrespectful exchanges, even > continue to > > have access to this list? He's out of control, Hur. I've > tolerated > > him for quite a while now, trying to see his derogatory comments > as an > > opportunity to learn more about myself and why I react/respond > the way > > I do but I find him really disruptive and upsetting. I'm not > learning > > anything from being called stupid and blind and such. I'm fed up > with > > his b.s. and want him banished. Let the feeling of mutual > respect > > between members of this list be restored by getting rid of him > for the > > highest good of all. Please don't take my imploring lightly. I > love > > this forum but if Larry's b.s. is allowed to continue, I'll just > have > > to leave and I don't want to do that. So please consider > banishing > > him. Thank you. > > > > Silver > > > > > > > > I do understand your frustration, Silver, in fact, Bob's and > Larry's > > frustration is also understandable. It's interesting that we've > been discussing > > exploring these unconscious processes that lead to attack and > defense, and then > > all this attacking and defending shows up. In my world, this isn't > a > > 'coincidence', but rather an opportunity to do some real spiritual > work. > > > > I know you've been trying to see the opportunity, but at what > point did you > > stop looking for it and decide it wasn't about you at all but > rather about > > somebody else? As was mentioned in the discussion, looking at our > reactions and > > allowing them to be and sitting with them is likely the most > difficult work > > there is on any spiritual path. This is why struggles, judgment > and > > attachments continue for almost everyone, even those who are > studying, and even > > comprehending, the teachings of the enlightened masters. > > > > The perfection of God's universe is such that what is occurring is > already > > " for the highest good of all " , and if banishing is the highest > choice that a > > community can make, perhaps it's time to ask ourselves what's gone > horribly > > wrong with the community. > > > > Unless the community decides to banish those > who ask such question ;-) > > Len > > > > Yes, and you probly know this is almost always what happens, and will likely > happen here. Did it happen to you? Len I've been 'banished' from many forums, although never formally banned since I always left voluntarily when my presence was resisted. I used to have a reputation for 'blowing up' forums, though it was never my intention to cause trouble. It's interesting what a few pointed questions/comments can do to folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 In a message dated 4/20/2006 5:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > >>I do understand your frustration, Silver, in fact, Bob's and > >Larry's > >>frustration is also understandable. It's interesting that we've > >been discussing > >> exploring these unconscious processes that lead to attack and > >defense, and then > >>all this attacking and defending shows up. In my world, this > isn't > >a > >>'coincidence', but rather an opportunity to do some real > spiritual > > work. L.E: Here is Phil playing the objective observer watching Larry and Bob as lab rats and " exploring " unconscious processes. What about the actual events that were conscious and intentional? And there you are on the sidelines taking notes while Bob is inflicting his obsenity and insults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 In a message dated 4/20/2006 8:41:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 22:19:05 EDT epston Re: Personal Attacks In a message dated 4/20/2006 5:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > >>I do understand your frustration, Silver, in fact, Bob's and > >Larry's > >>frustration is also understandable. It's interesting that we've > >been discussing > >> exploring these unconscious processes that lead to attack and > >defense, and then > >>all this attacking and defending shows up. In my world, this > isn't > >a > >>'coincidence', but rather an opportunity to do some real > spiritual > > work. L.E: Here is Phil playing the objective observer watching Larry and Bob as lab rats and " exploring " unconscious processes. What about the actual events that were conscious and intentional? And there you are on the sidelines taking notes while Bob is inflicting his obsenity and insults. What about your " actual events " ? How did you create them and when are you going to stop? Yes, Larry, you've been an excellent lab rat and I'm grateful. For some reason, there has been a greater level of detachment here over the past few days and so perhaps all your maze running has led to a shift for me. It's not clear why, but it's welcomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 In a message dated 4/20/2006 11:12:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > In a message dated 4/20/2006 5:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > ADHHUB > writes: > > I do understand your frustration, Silver, in fact, Bob's and Larry's > frustration is also understandable. It's interesting that we've > been discussing exploring these unconscious processes that lead to > attack and > defense, and then all this attacking and defending shows up. In my > world, this isn't a 'coincidence', but rather an opportunity to do some real > spiritual > work. > > L.E: Here is Phil playing the objective observer watching Larry and Bob as > lab rats and " exploring " unconscious processes. What about the actual > events that were conscious and intentional? And there you are on the > sidelines > taking notes while Bob is inflicting his obsenity and insults. > > What about your " actual events " ? How did you create them and when are you > going to stop? Yes, Larry, you've been an excellent lab rat and I'm > grateful. > For some reason, there has been a greater level of detachment here over the > past few days and so perhaps all your maze running has led to a shift for > me. > It's not clear why, but it's welcomed. > > L.E: Well, at least you are willing to admit it. But it indicates something rather absent in your character to say the least. Empathy, concern for another, love, compassion: all missing, absent and in their place the detached observer. A horrible trade-off I'd say. As if you had or have a choice? Do you have a choice? Can you stop this scientific sef-justification and just be caring human being for a while? I don't think it is possible for you to make that change because you are so defended to be as you are for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/20/2006 7:16:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:45:36 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Personal Attacks > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/19/2006 4:57:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:34:20 -0000 > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > Re: Personal Attacks > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/19/2006 5:42:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:26:56 -0000 > > > " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069@> > > > Re: Personal Attacks > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Please don't post personal attacks on this board. > > > > Take it " outside " ...via email, webcam, phone, etc. > > > > > > > > Please respect the Satsang. Granted, Maharaj > > > > is not around to ask " any questions? " but > > > > at least please keep your comments relevant. > > > > > > > ********* > > > Yes. You have my word that I will strive to continue > refraining > > from > > > making any personal attacks on anyone. However, should > someone > > like > > > Larry, who instigates these disrespectful exchanges, even > > continue to > > > have access to this list? He's out of control, Hur. I've > > tolerated > > > him for quite a while now, trying to see his derogatory > comments > > as an > > > opportunity to learn more about myself and why I react/respond > > the way > > > I do but I find him really disruptive and upsetting. I'm not > > learning > > > anything from being called stupid and blind and such. I'm fed > up > > with > > > his b.s. and want him banished. Let the feeling of mutual > > respect > > > between members of this list be restored by getting rid of him > > for the > > > highest good of all. Please don't take my imploring lightly. > I > > love > > > this forum but if Larry's b.s. is allowed to continue, I'll > just > > have > > > to leave and I don't want to do that. So please consider > > banishing > > > him. Thank you. > > > > > > Silver > > > > > > > > > > > > I do understand your frustration, Silver, in fact, Bob's and > > Larry's > > > frustration is also understandable. It's interesting that we've > > been discussing > > > exploring these unconscious processes that lead to attack and > > defense, and then > > > all this attacking and defending shows up. In my world, this > isn't > > a > > > 'coincidence', but rather an opportunity to do some real > spiritual > > work. > > > > > > I know you've been trying to see the opportunity, but at what > > point did you > > > stop looking for it and decide it wasn't about you at all but > > rather about > > > somebody else? As was mentioned in the discussion, looking at > our > > reactions and > > > allowing them to be and sitting with them is likely the most > > difficult work > > > there is on any spiritual path. This is why struggles, judgment > > and > > > attachments continue for almost everyone, even those who are > > studying, and even > > > comprehending, the teachings of the enlightened masters. > > > > > > The perfection of God's universe is such that what is occurring > is > > already > > > " for the highest good of all " , and if banishing is the highest > > choice that a > > > community can make, perhaps it's time to ask ourselves what's > gone > > horribly > > > wrong with the community. > > > > > > > > Unless the community decides to banish those > > who ask such question ;-) > > > > Len > > > > > > > > Yes, and you probly know this is almost always what happens, and > will likely > > happen here. > > > Did it happen to you? > > Len > > > > I've been 'banished' from many forums, although never formally banned since > I always left voluntarily when my presence was resisted. I used to have a > reputation for 'blowing up' forums, though it was never my intention to cause > trouble. It's interesting what a few pointed questions/comments can do to folks. It is because the ego is very clever, and knows very well what´s going on, no matter how unaware one may seem on a surface. When one´s image sytem is in danger, it is immediately recognized, localised and destroyed. Like the immune system of the body or like national defence. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:37:10 EDT epston Re: Personal Attacks In a message dated 4/20/2006 11:12:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > In a message dated 4/20/2006 5:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > ADHHUB > writes: > > I do understand your frustration, Silver, in fact, Bob's and Larry's > frustration is also understandable. It's interesting that we've > been discussing exploring these unconscious processes that lead to > attack and > defense, and then all this attacking and defending shows up. In my > world, this isn't a 'coincidence', but rather an opportunity to do some real > spiritual > work. > > L.E: Here is Phil playing the objective observer watching Larry and Bob as > lab rats and " exploring " unconscious processes. What about the actual > events that were conscious and intentional? And there you are on the > sidelines > taking notes while Bob is inflicting his obsenity and insults. > > What about your " actual events " ? How did you create them and when are you > going to stop? Yes, Larry, you've been an excellent lab rat and I'm > grateful. > For some reason, there has been a greater level of detachment here over the > past few days and so perhaps all your maze running has led to a shift for > me. > It's not clear why, but it's welcomed. > > L.E: Well, at least you are willing to admit it. But it indicates something rather absent in your character to say the least. Empathy, concern for another, love, compassion: all missing, absent and in their place the detached observer. A horrible trade-off I'd say. As if you had or have a choice? Do you have a choice? Can you stop this scientific sef-justification and just be caring human being for a while? I don't think it is possible for you to make that change because you are so defended to be as you are for now. If you only knew how far I would go, how far I have already gone, to assist you, you would never doubt my love for you again. I'm sure that sounds like the ravings of a liar to you, but that's okay, too, Larry. It's not important that you understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:15:02 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Personal Attacks > I've been 'banished' from many forums, although never formally banned since > I always left voluntarily when my presence was resisted. I used to have a > reputation for 'blowing up' forums, though it was never my intention to cause > trouble. It's interesting what a few pointed questions/comments can do to folks. It is because the ego is very clever, and knows very well what´s going on, no matter how unaware one may seem on a surface. When one´s image sytem is in danger, it is immediately recognized, localised and destroyed. Like the immune system of the body or like national defence. Len Both good similes in their own way. Ego experiences discomfort first, and then seeks defense, and then seeks justification for the defense. It all seems a bit backwards. If the truth takes priority, then the convoluted layers of defense and justification of the defense aren't necessary. But then again, what would everybody do with all that extra time and energy? ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 In a message dated 4/21/2006 1:37:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > If you only knew how far I would go, how far I have already gone, to assist > > you, you would never doubt my love for you again. I'm sure that sounds like > the ravings of a liar to you, but that's okay, too, Larry. It's not > important > that you understand. L.E: I'd feel a lot better about you if I did understand and I want to know, what did you do to assist me? Was you help like Ramana, sharing your holy silent presence as his definition of preaching? Or prayer or chanting or what? Did you write to Hur and object? Did you write to Bob and ask or tell him to stop? What exactly did you do? I felt very deserted and alone as Bob attacked me. It hurt, and nobody spoke up and some attacked me as I changed the name on Bob's post. Oh bad Larry! Terrible behavior by some. No objection to Bob's obscenities and mean assault, but wow, did Marc and others object to my terrible act of changing the name. Some lousy people here on Niz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:15:02 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Personal Attacks > > I've been 'banished' from many forums, although never formally > banned since > > I always left voluntarily when my presence was resisted. I used to > have a > > reputation for 'blowing up' forums, though it was never my > intention to cause > > trouble. It's interesting what a few pointed questions/comments > can do to folks. > > > > It is because the ego is very clever, and knows very well what´s > going on, no matter how unaware one may seem on a surface. When > one´s image sytem is in danger, it is immediately recognized, > localised and destroyed. Like the immune system of the body or like > national defence. > > Len > > > Both good similes in their own way. Ego experiences discomfort first, and > then seeks defense, and then seeks justification for the defense. It all seems a > bit backwards. If the truth takes priority, then the convoluted layers of > defense and justification of the defense aren't necessary. But then again, what > would everybody do with all that extra time and energy? ~ Embroidery? :-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 In a message dated 4/22/2006 1:50:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 04:36:38 EDT epston Re: Personal Attacks In a message dated 4/21/2006 1:37:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: > If you only knew how far I would go, how far I have already gone, to assist > > you, you would never doubt my love for you again. I'm sure that sounds like > the ravings of a liar to you, but that's okay, too, Larry. It's not > important > that you understand. L.E: I'd feel a lot better about you if I did understand and I want to know, what did you do to assist me? Was you help like Ramana, sharing your holy silent presence as his definition of preaching? Or prayer or chanting or what? Did you write to Hur and object? Did you write to Bob and ask or tell him to stop? What exactly did you do? I felt very deserted and alone as Bob attacked me. It hurt, and nobody spoke up and some attacked me as I changed the name on Bob's post. Oh bad Larry! Terrible behavior by some. No objection to Bob's obscenities and mean assault, but wow, did Marc and others object to my terrible act of changing the name. Some lousy people here on Niz. If this were a social gathering of friends or family, it might have turned out much differently as some would commiserate and empathize and soothe your feelings, while others would take sides and send Bob to his room without his supper. As it is, this is a spirituality forum, and as much as my perspective differs from some here, I find value here for the simple reason that most here aren't playing silly children's games. Most here are damn serious and are done screwing around and I honor that. I'm not talking about intolerance, I'm saying if you burp, somebody's gonna explore the spiritual aspects of burping because burping is damn serious spiritual business! Len and I began a discussion about unconscious ego processes. You were part of that discussion and examples of your own processes were given to you, but they were given in a relatively gentle way, and so they were easily ignored, and you ultimately rejected all of our ideas. This isn't seen as a problem by either of us. You will see things as you see them, but it did set you up for what followed. In my world, a focus of consciousness is creative, and so 'our' focus on unconscious ego processes triggered a demonstration of that in the form of you and Bob and some others. I don't see it as something that just accidentally happened or something that interrupted the discussion. Rather, it was an excellent demonstration of exactly what we were talking about. Not only was it a good exploration for me but an excellent opportunity for you to begin seeing what we had been discussing. All your defenses and projections were still being pointed out to you even during the whole explosion, and they're still being pointed out. And so, I recognized your hurt and your anger and your sense of being victimized, but I'm not focussed on stopping it all because you created it and you had an opportunity to learn how to stop doing that. So far, I'm not sure anybody learned anything from the whole process except maybe me, and I'm not sure I could even describe what that is. A deeper level of detachment is all I know. The point is that it's always been about you and I've done everything I could to 'help', just not in the way that you wanted me to help, which was to support you in your judgment and anger and restore the equilibrium of your ego. To me, that's not helping; that's not the loving thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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