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L.E: Do you remember that game called King of the Hill?

Only one person can be at the top of the hill and everybody else tries to get

to the top and replace the King and become the King themselves.

Have you ever noticed those teachers that never approve of anyone, that

always criticize and find fault? Are they playing King of the Hill?

Are they so competitive for the primary position of chief, authority,

leader, that they can never really approve of anyone because the are afraid that

if they approve, they will lose their position as the all-knowing authority?

Ramana Maharshi puts down anyone who give spiritual teaching by talking,

he say they are " haranguing " the audience and the real teaching and preaching

is through silence and experiencing the presence of the holy one, meaning of

course himself. He implies the only ones of value are the silent teachers as

himself and everyone else is worthless and will not change the lives of anyone.

Swami Satchitananda didn't leave a successor. He couldn't find anyone

of equal or worthy status to give them his blessing and authority, so his

follows of course fought over leadership when he died. Krishnamurti chose no

follower or worthy successor to not guru and not lead, and not influence as he

did. One after another, no one is worthy to equal or carry on. Have you heard

of

Swami Rama, or Yogananda? Who are their successors? No one. Is this King of

the Hill?

There are people in this group that play the same King of the Hill game.

They give no approval to anyone and try to always be the last and final

authority. When ever you write to them, the answer you give is always lacking,

always mistaken, always wrong. They never have anything happy or joyful to say

to anyone.

There are some in their pursuit of King of the Hill who play the " as long as

you write I am " you are not, have no basis, no accomplishment, so here are a

few comments from Nisargatta.

 

Nisargatta: " I am neither conscious nor unconscious. " " I am beyond the

mind. " " I am pure consciousness itself " " I am not a person in your sense of the

word. "

 

He seems very comfortable with " I am " declarations and statements so what is

the objection of certain list members to " I am " statements.

OOOOOO! You said " I am " therefore you haven't got it!

OOOOOO! You wrote " I am " therefore you are lost in illusion and dreams.!

 

OOOOOO! When you say I am you are wrong wrong.

Writing, without writing I am is arbitrary and ridiculous for those that

feel they are accomplishing some spiritual feat of greatness by finding a

writing style that eliminates " I am " statements. It's just someone trying to

maintain the highest position and find everyone else wrong. King of the Hill for

adults. Stupid!! Toom.

 

Larry Epston

 

 

 

 

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Writing, without writing I am is arbitrary and ridiculous for those that

feel they are accomplishing some spiritual feat of greatness by finding

a writing style that eliminates " I am " statements.

>>>>

 

I am in basic agreement...

 

That the pronoun " I " occurs in speech says nothing

of the conceptualization of the speaker.

 

I will go even further: to read some words and from

those words assume that one can adduce the state of

consciousness behind the emission of those words...

sheer rubbish!

 

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote:

>

> Writing, without writing I am is arbitrary and ridiculous for those that

> feel they are accomplishing some spiritual feat of greatness by finding

> a writing style that eliminates " I am " statements.

> >>>>

>

> I am in basic agreement...

>

> That the pronoun " I " occurs in speech says nothing

> of the conceptualization of the speaker.

>

> I will go even further: to read some words and from

> those words assume that one can adduce the state of

> consciousness behind the emission of those words...

> sheer rubbish!

>

>

> Bill

>

 

 

 

 

Rubbish...........as far as the I can see.

 

 

 

 

toombaru

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In a message dated 4/21/2006 12:09:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:37:23 EDT

epston

King Of The Hill

 

L.E: Do you remember that game called King of the Hill?

Only one person can be at the top of the hill and everybody else tries to

get

to the top and replace the King and become the King themselves.

Have you ever noticed those teachers that never approve of anyone, that

always criticize and find fault? Are they playing King of the Hill?

Are they so competitive for the primary position of chief, authority,

leader, that they can never really approve of anyone because the are afraid

that

if they approve, they will lose their position as the all-knowing

authority?

Ramana Maharshi puts down anyone who give spiritual teaching by talking,

he say they are " haranguing " the audience and the real teaching and

preaching

is through silence and experiencing the presence of the holy one, meaning of

course himself. He implies the only ones of value are the silent teachers

as

himself and everyone else is worthless and will not change the lives of

anyone.

Swami Satchitananda didn't leave a successor. He couldn't find anyone

of equal or worthy status to give them his blessing and authority, so his

follows of course fought over leadership when he died. Krishnamurti chose

no

follower or worthy successor to not guru and not lead, and not influence as

he

did. One after another, no one is worthy to equal or carry on. Have you

heard of

Swami Rama, or Yogananda? Who are their successors? No one. Is this King

of

the Hill?

There are people in this group that play the same King of the Hill game.

They give no approval to anyone and try to always be the last and final

authority. When ever you write to them, the answer you give is always

lacking,

always mistaken, always wrong. They never have anything happy or joyful to

say

to anyone.

There are some in their pursuit of King of the Hill who play the " as long as

you write I am " you are not, have no basis, no accomplishment, so here are a

few comments from Nisargatta.

 

Nisargatta: " I am neither conscious nor unconscious. " " I am beyond the

mind. " " I am pure consciousness itself " " I am not a person in your sense of

the

word. "

 

He seems very comfortable with " I am " declarations and statements so what is

the objection of certain list members to " I am " statements.

OOOOOO! You said " I am " therefore you haven't got it!

OOOOOO! You wrote " I am " therefore you are lost in illusion and dreams.!

 

OOOOOO! When you say I am you are wrong wrong.

Writing, without writing I am is arbitrary and ridiculous for those that

feel they are accomplishing some spiritual feat of greatness by finding a

writing style that eliminates " I am " statements. It's just someone trying

to

maintain the highest position and find everyone else wrong. King of the Hill

for

adults. Stupid!! Toom.

 

Larry Epston

 

 

 

 

I doubt if my perspective is particularly meaningful to you but......I never

saw Toom as trying to make anybody wrong or to be right. I don't think he

cares who wins, I think he just seeks to negate his own processes. Of course, I

could be mistaken about that.

 

 

 

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In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:24:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

lastrain writes:

 

> Any statement about another is mistaken.

>

> toombaru

 

L.E: Both Nisargardatta and I say, " In reality, there are no others. " P. 383,

I Am That. In that sense, talking about another is talking about yourself. On

the other hand the concept of another or the other is mistaken. So if you

imagine another at all, you are mistaken.

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 4/21/2006 12:09:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:37:23 EDT

> epston

> King Of The Hill

>

> L.E: Do you remember that game called King of the Hill?

> Only one person can be at the top of the hill and everybody else

tries to

> get

> to the top and replace the King and become the King themselves.

> Have you ever noticed those teachers that never approve of

anyone, that

> always criticize and find fault? Are they playing King of the

Hill?

> Are they so competitive for the primary position of chief,

authority,

> leader, that they can never really approve of anyone because the

are afraid

> that

> if they approve, they will lose their position as the all-

knowing

> authority?

> Ramana Maharshi puts down anyone who give spiritual teaching by

talking,

> he say they are " haranguing " the audience and the real teaching

and

> preaching

> is through silence and experiencing the presence of the holy one,

meaning of

> course himself. He implies the only ones of value are the silent

teachers

> as

> himself and everyone else is worthless and will not change the

lives of

> anyone.

> Swami Satchitananda didn't leave a successor. He couldn't find

anyone

> of equal or worthy status to give them his blessing and

authority, so his

> follows of course fought over leadership when he died.

Krishnamurti chose

> no

> follower or worthy successor to not guru and not lead, and not

influence as

> he

> did. One after another, no one is worthy to equal or carry on.

Have you

> heard of

> Swami Rama, or Yogananda? Who are their successors? No one. Is

this King

> of

> the Hill?

> There are people in this group that play the same King of the

Hill game.

> They give no approval to anyone and try to always be the last and

final

> authority. When ever you write to them, the answer you give is

always

> lacking,

> always mistaken, always wrong. They never have anything happy

or joyful to

> say

> to anyone.

> There are some in their pursuit of King of the Hill who play

the " as long as

> you write I am " you are not, have no basis, no accomplishment, so

here are a

> few comments from Nisargatta.

>

> Nisargatta: " I am neither conscious nor unconscious. " " I am

beyond the

> mind. " " I am pure consciousness itself " " I am not a person in

your sense of

> the

> word. "

>

> He seems very comfortable with " I am " declarations and statements

so what is

> the objection of certain list members to " I am " statements.

> OOOOOO! You said " I am " therefore you haven't got it!

> OOOOOO! You wrote " I am " therefore you are lost in illusion and

dreams.!

>

> OOOOOO! When you say I am you are wrong wrong.

> Writing, without writing I am is arbitrary and ridiculous for

those that

> feel they are accomplishing some spiritual feat of greatness by

finding a

> writing style that eliminates " I am " statements. It's just

someone trying

> to

> maintain the highest position and find everyone else wrong. King

of the Hill

> for

> adults. Stupid!! Toom.

>

> Larry Epston

>

>

>

>

> I doubt if my perspective is particularly meaningful to you

but......I never

> saw Toom as trying to make anybody wrong or to be right. I don't

think he

> cares who wins, I think he just seeks to negate his own processes.

Of course, I

> could be mistaken about that.

>

 

 

 

Any statement about another is mistaken.

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn

wrote:

>

> Writing, without writing I am is arbitrary and ridiculous for

those that

> feel they are accomplishing some spiritual feat of greatness by

finding

> a writing style that eliminates " I am " statements.

> >>>>

>

> I am in basic agreement...

>

> That the pronoun " I " occurs in speech says nothing

> of the conceptualization of the speaker.

>

> I will go even further: to read some words and from

> those words assume that one can adduce the state of

> consciousness behind the emission of those words...

> sheer rubbish!

>

>

> Bill

 

 

You wish;-)

 

Len

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Any statement about another is mistaken.

>>

toombaru

>

>L.E: Both Nisargardatta and I say, " In reality, there are no

others. " P. 383, I Am That.

In that sense, talking about another is talking about > yourself. On the

> other hand the concept of another or the other is mistaken. So

> if you imagine another at all, you are mistaken.

>

> Even it they were real.......both would be in constant flux.

> One would not be able to get a good look at the other in the swirling

> .......constantly changing....self-referential impressions.

>

> toombaru

 

L.E: Nisargardatta and I both agree about it, but you are welcome to have

your own opinion. And, as we both have said, there is no other. Otherness is

the illusion of separation of self from Self, the individual from its

environment, or as some say it, the soul from god, although we don't talk about

it that

way. Neither Niz, or I, or we or us have that illusion. Even Ana if free

from that illusion. Are you, who pretends to have or is not a self?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , epston wrote:

>

> In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:24:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> lastrain writes:

>

> > Any statement about another is mistaken.

> >

> > toombaru

>

> L.E: Both Nisargardatta and I say, " In reality, there are no

others. " P. 383,

> I Am That. In that sense, talking about another is talking about

yourself. On

> the other hand the concept of another or the other is mistaken. So

if you

> imagine another at all, you are mistaken.

>

>

>

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In a message dated 4/22/2006 1:50:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

Sat, 22 Apr 2006 01:23:54 -0000

" toombaru2006 " <lastrain

Re: King Of The Hill

 

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 4/21/2006 12:09:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:37:23 EDT

> epston

> King Of The Hill

>

> L.E: Do you remember that game called King of the Hill?

> Only one person can be at the top of the hill and everybody else

tries to

> get

> to the top and replace the King and become the King themselves.

> Have you ever noticed those teachers that never approve of

anyone, that

> always criticize and find fault? Are they playing King of the

Hill?

> Are they so competitive for the primary position of chief,

authority,

> leader, that they can never really approve of anyone because the

are afraid

> that

> if they approve, they will lose their position as the all-

knowing

> authority?

> Ramana Maharshi puts down anyone who give spiritual teaching by

talking,

> he say they are " haranguing " the audience and the real teaching

and

> preaching

> is through silence and experiencing the presence of the holy one,

meaning of

> course himself. He implies the only ones of value are the silent

teachers

> as

> himself and everyone else is worthless and will not change the

lives of

> anyone.

> Swami Satchitananda didn't leave a successor. He couldn't find

anyone

> of equal or worthy status to give them his blessing and

authority, so his

> follows of course fought over leadership when he died.

Krishnamurti chose

> no

> follower or worthy successor to not guru and not lead, and not

influence as

> he

> did. One after another, no one is worthy to equal or carry on.

Have you

> heard of

> Swami Rama, or Yogananda? Who are their successors? No one. Is

this King

> of

> the Hill?

> There are people in this group that play the same King of the

Hill game.

> They give no approval to anyone and try to always be the last and

final

> authority. When ever you write to them, the answer you give is

always

> lacking,

> always mistaken, always wrong. They never have anything happy

or joyful to

> say

> to anyone.

> There are some in their pursuit of King of the Hill who play

the " as long as

> you write I am " you are not, have no basis, no accomplishment, so

here are a

> few comments from Nisargatta.

>

> Nisargatta: " I am neither conscious nor unconscious. " " I am

beyond the

> mind. " " I am pure consciousness itself " " I am not a person in

your sense of

> the

> word. "

>

> He seems very comfortable with " I am " declarations and statements

so what is

> the objection of certain list members to " I am " statements.

> OOOOOO! You said " I am " therefore you haven't got it!

> OOOOOO! You wrote " I am " therefore you are lost in illusion and

dreams.!

>

> OOOOOO! When you say I am you are wrong wrong.

> Writing, without writing I am is arbitrary and ridiculous for

those that

> feel they are accomplishing some spiritual feat of greatness by

finding a

> writing style that eliminates " I am " statements. It's just

someone trying

> to

> maintain the highest position and find everyone else wrong. King

of the Hill

> for

> adults. Stupid!! Toom.

>

> Larry Epston

>

>

>

>

> I doubt if my perspective is particularly meaningful to you

but......I never

> saw Toom as trying to make anybody wrong or to be right. I don't

think he

> cares who wins, I think he just seeks to negate his own processes.

Of course, I

> could be mistaken about that.

>

 

 

 

Any statement about another is mistaken.

 

toombaru

 

 

 

Okay, Toom is an obsessive compulsive egomaniac who just wants to win at all

cost..........Oops, that would be mistaken too, huh? Okay, never mind. :)

 

 

 

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In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:35:15 -0000

" lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

Re: King Of The Hill

 

Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn

wrote:

>

> Writing, without writing I am is arbitrary and ridiculous for

those that

> feel they are accomplishing some spiritual feat of greatness by

finding

> a writing style that eliminates " I am " statements.

> >>>>

>

> I am in basic agreement...

>

> That the pronoun " I " occurs in speech says nothing

> of the conceptualization of the speaker.

>

> I will go even further: to read some words and from

> those words assume that one can adduce the state of

> consciousness behind the emission of those words...

> sheer rubbish!

>

>

> Bill

 

 

You wish;-)

 

Len

 

 

 

Part of the reinforcement of illusory individuality is the belief that one

can remain hidden while occupying the same consciousness as 'others'.

 

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:35:15 -0000

> " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

> Re: King Of The Hill

>

> Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Writing, without writing I am is arbitrary and ridiculous for

> those that

> > feel they are accomplishing some spiritual feat of greatness by

> finding

> > a writing style that eliminates " I am " statements.

> > >>>>

> >

> > I am in basic agreement...

> >

> > That the pronoun " I " occurs in speech says nothing

> > of the conceptualization of the speaker.

> >

> > I will go even further: to read some words and from

> > those words assume that one can adduce the state of

> > consciousness behind the emission of those words...

> > sheer rubbish!

> >

> >

> > Bill

>

>

> You wish;-)

>

> Len

>

>

>

> Part of the reinforcement of illusory individuality is the belief

that one

> can remain hidden while occupying the same consciousness

as 'others'.

 

 

He, he :-)

 

len

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Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:35:15 -0000

> " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

> Re: King Of The Hill

>

> Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Writing, without writing I am is arbitrary and ridiculous for

> those that

> > feel they are accomplishing some spiritual feat of greatness by

> finding

> > a writing style that eliminates " I am " statements.

> > >>>>

> >

> > I am in basic agreement...

> >

> > That the pronoun " I " occurs in speech says nothing

> > of the conceptualization of the speaker.

> >

> > I will go even further: to read some words and from

> > those words assume that one can adduce the state of

> > consciousness behind the emission of those words...

> > sheer rubbish!

> >

> >

> > Bill

>

>

> You wish;-)

>

> Len

>

>

>

> Part of the reinforcement of illusory individuality is the belief

that one

> can remain hidden while occupying the same consciousness as 'others'.

>

 

mere belief is an affirmation of individuality

 

immersion in Now entails no belief

 

isn't that simple?

isn't that clear?

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn

wrote:

 

 

> mere belief is an affirmation of individuality

>

> immersion in Now entails no belief

 

 

This is just a thought you hang on to, because it pleases you.

 

Len

 

 

 

> isn't that simple?

> isn't that clear?

>

> Bill

>

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Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> wrote:

>

>

> > mere belief is an affirmation of individuality

> >

> > immersion in Now entails no belief

>

>

> This is just a thought you hang on to, because it pleases you.

>

> Len

>

 

your imagination is running wild

 

 

>

> > isn't that simple?

> > isn't that clear?

> >

> > Bill

> >

>

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> > wrote:

> >

> >

> > > mere belief is an affirmation of individuality

> > >

> > > immersion in Now entails no belief

> >

> >

> > This is just a thought you hang on to, because it pleases you.

> >

> > Len

> >

>

> your imagination is running wild

 

 

Projection ;-)

 

Len

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Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > > mere belief is an affirmation of individuality

> > > >

> > > > immersion in Now entails no belief

> > >

> > >

> > > This is just a thought you hang on to, because it pleases you.

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> >

> > your imagination is running wild

>

>

> Projection ;-)

>

> Len

>

 

thus speaks the projectionist!

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