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Toom-It ain't It!

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In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

lastrain writes:

 

> If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

>

>

> toombaru

>

L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it all or

nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or totally

ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any progress

involved

or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind?

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , epston wrote:

>

> In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> lastrain writes:

>

> > If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

> >

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

> Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it

all or

> nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or

totally

> ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any

progress involved

> or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind?

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never become

enlightened.

 

Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed person.

 

It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the

words.....tries to copy the motions......and then envisions its self

as all knowing....sometime in the future.

 

The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self.

 

 

 

toombaru

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In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000

" toombaru2006 " <lastrain

Re: Toom-It ain't It!

 

Nisargadatta , epston wrote:

>

> In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> lastrain writes:

>

> > If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

> >

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

> Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it

all or

> nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or

totally

> ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any

progress involved

> or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind?

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

 

 

A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never become

enlightened.

 

Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed person.

 

It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the

words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self as all

knowing....sometime in the future.

 

The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self.

 

 

 

toombaru

 

 

 

But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is it that

the sun can remain blocked by this shadow?

 

 

 

 

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In a message dated 4/22/2006 8:46:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:25:03 -0000

" toombaru2006 " <lastrain

Re: Toom-It ain't It!

 

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000

> " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

> Re: Toom-It ain't It!

>

> Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > lastrain@ writes:

> >

> > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

> > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it

> all or

> > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or

> totally

> > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any

> progress involved

> > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind?

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

> A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never become

> enlightened.

>

> Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed

person.

>

> It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the

> words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self as all

> knowing....sometime in the future.

>

> The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self.

>

>

>

> toombaru

>

>

>

> But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is

it that

> the sun can remain blocked by this shadow?

>

>

 

In a total eclipse of the sun.....it only appears from the perspective

of earth........ that the sun is blocked.

 

 

 

toombaru

 

 

 

It's not just appearances. It really is blocked, but it's understood that

the moon is doing the blocking. In the case of self, it is a shadow which

blocks. The problem is seen. The question remains, how?

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , epston wrote:

>

> In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> lastrain writes:

>

> > If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

> >

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

> Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is

it all or

> nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or

totally

> ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any

progress involved

> or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind?

 

Neither.

 

Is as is.

 

No comparison.

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In a message dated 4/22/2006 10:34:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

Sun, 23 Apr 2006 05:18:19 -0000

" toombaru2006 " <lastrain

Re: Toom-It ain't It!

 

Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 4/22/2006 8:46:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:25:03 -0000

> " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

> Re: Toom-It ain't It!

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > Nisargadatta writes:

> >

> > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000

> > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > Re: Toom-It ain't It!

> >

> > --- In Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > > lastrain@ writes:

> > >

> > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

> > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or

is it

> > all or

> > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or

> > totally

> > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any

> > progress involved

> > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind?

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never

become

> > enlightened.

> >

> > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed

> person.

> >

> > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the

> > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self

as all

> > knowing....sometime in the future.

> >

> > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self.

> >

> >

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> >

> >

> > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is

> it that

> > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow?

> >

> >

>

> In a total eclipse of the sun.....it only appears from the perspective

> of earth........ that the sun is blocked.

>

>

>

> toombaru

>

>

>

> It's not just appearances. It really is blocked, but it's understood

that

> the moon is doing the blocking. In the case of self, it is a shadow

which

> blocks. The problem is seen. The question remains, how?

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

" How " and " Why " are questions that even the greatest of sages never

answer.

 

 

 

 

toombaru

 

 

 

Wasn't looking for an answer. Was just pondering why the question remained.

:)

 

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000

> " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

> Re: Toom-It ain't It!

>

> Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > lastrain@ writes:

> >

> > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

> > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it

> all or

> > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or

> totally

> > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any

> progress involved

> > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind?

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

> A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never become

> enlightened.

>

> Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed

person.

>

> It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the

> words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self as all

> knowing....sometime in the future.

>

> The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self.

>

>

>

> toombaru

>

>

>

> But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is

it that

> the sun can remain blocked by this shadow?

>

>

 

In a total eclipse of the sun.....it only appears from the perspective

of earth........ that the sun is blocked.

 

 

 

toombaru

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

>

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Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 4/22/2006 8:46:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:25:03 -0000

> " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

> Re: Toom-It ain't It!

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > Nisargadatta writes:

> >

> > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000

> > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > Re: Toom-It ain't It!

> >

> > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > > lastrain@ writes:

> > >

> > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

> > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or

is it

> > all or

> > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or

> > totally

> > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any

> > progress involved

> > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind?

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never

become

> > enlightened.

> >

> > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed

> person.

> >

> > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the

> > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self

as all

> > knowing....sometime in the future.

> >

> > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self.

> >

> >

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> >

> >

> > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is

> it that

> > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow?

> >

> >

>

> In a total eclipse of the sun.....it only appears from the perspective

> of earth........ that the sun is blocked.

>

>

>

> toombaru

>

>

>

> It's not just appearances. It really is blocked, but it's understood

that

> the moon is doing the blocking. In the case of self, it is a shadow

which

> blocks. The problem is seen. The question remains, how?

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

" How " and " Why " are questions that even the greatest of sages never

answer.

 

 

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000

> " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

> Re: Toom-It ain't It!

>

> Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > lastrain@ writes:

> >

> > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

> > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or

is it

> all or

> > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened

or

> totally

> > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any

> progress involved

> > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or

blind?

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

> A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never

become

> enlightened.

>

> Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed

person.

>

> It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the

> words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self

as all

> knowing....sometime in the future.

>

> The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the

self.

>

>

>

> toombaru

>

>

>

> But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is

it that

> the sun can remain blocked by this shadow?

 

 

 

Because you think you are the shadow. Therefore all attention is

focused on the shadow.

 

Len

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In a message dated 4/23/2006 7:41:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:57:01 -0000

" lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

Re: Toom-It ain't It!

 

--- In Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

 

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000

> " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

> Re: Toom-It ain't It!

>

> Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > lastrain@ writes:

> >

> > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

> > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or

is it

> all or

> > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened

or

> totally

> > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any

> progress involved

> > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or

blind?

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

> A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never

become

> enlightened.

>

> Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed

person.

>

> It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the

> words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self

as all

> knowing....sometime in the future.

>

> The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the

self.

>

>

>

> toombaru

>

>

>

> But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is

it that

> the sun can remain blocked by this shadow?

 

 

 

Because you think you are the shadow. Therefore all attention is

focused on the shadow.

 

Len

 

 

 

And if you know this to be so, then the shadow is no more, so the question

still remains. Not saying there is no answer, only that the question remains in

spite of answers.

 

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > Nisargadatta writes:

> >

> > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000

> > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > Re: Toom-It ain't It!

> >

> > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > > lastrain@ writes:

> > >

> > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

> > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or

> is it

> > all or

> > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened

> or

> > totally

> > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any

> > progress involved

> > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or

> blind?

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never

> become

> > enlightened.

> >

> > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed

> person.

> >

> > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the

> > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self

> as all

> > knowing....sometime in the future.

> >

> > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the

> self.

> >

> >

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> >

> >

> > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is

> it that

> > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow?

>

>

>

> Because you think you are the shadow. Therefore all attention is

> focused on the shadow.

>

> Len

 

A shadow can only be created when there is someplace else, outside of

the sun, for its light to fall.

 

If there is no outside, there is no shadow, plain and simple.

 

To be concerned about how to unblock the sun, is itself the so-called

shadow. You can't eliminate the shadow for someone else - thinking

you can do so, is the shadow of your own creation.

 

When for you, there is no outside for the sun's light, there is

neither light nor shadow -- just " is " ...

 

-- D.

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Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > > Nisargadatta writes:

> > >

> > > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000

> > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > > Re: Toom-It ain't It!

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > > > lastrain@ writes:

> > > >

> > > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > toombaru

> > > > >

> > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

> > > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or

> > is it

> > > all or

> > > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened

> > or

> > > totally

> > > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any

> > > progress involved

> > > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or

> > blind?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never

> > become

> > > enlightened.

> > >

> > > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed

> > person.

> > >

> > > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the

> > > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self

> > as all

> > > knowing....sometime in the future.

> > >

> > > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the

> > self.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is

> > it that

> > > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow?

> >

> >

> >

> > Because you think you are the shadow. Therefore all attention is

> > focused on the shadow.

> >

> > Len

>

> A shadow can only be created when there is someplace else, outside of

> the sun, for its light to fall.

>

> If there is no outside, there is no shadow, plain and simple.

>

> To be concerned about how to unblock the sun, is itself the so-called

> shadow. You can't eliminate the shadow for someone else - thinking

> you can do so, is the shadow of your own creation.

>

> When for you, there is no outside for the sun's light, there is

> neither light nor shadow -- just " is " ...

>

> -- D.

>

 

 

 

:-)

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Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 4/23/2006 7:41:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:57:01 -0000

> " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

> Re: Toom-It ain't It!

>

> --- In Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>

> > Nisargadatta writes:

> >

> > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000

> > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > Re: Toom-It ain't It!

> >

> > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight

Time,

> > > lastrain@ writes:

> > >

> > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people.

> > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it

or

> is it

> > all or

> > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either

enlightened

> or

> > totally

> > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is

there any

> > progress involved

> > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or

> blind?

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can

never

> become

> > enlightened.

> >

> > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a

transformed

> person.

> >

> > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the

> > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its

self

> as all

> > knowing....sometime in the future.

> >

> > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the

> self.

> >

> >

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> >

> >

> > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how

is

> it that

> > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow?

>

>

>

> Because you think you are the shadow. Therefore all attention is

> focused on the shadow.

>

> Len

>

>

>

> And if you know this to be so, then the shadow is no more, so the

question

> still remains. Not saying there is no answer, only that the

question remains in

> spite of answers.

 

 

 

There is " knowing " and there is actual perception.

Intellectual answers are no answers at all.

 

Len

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