Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes: > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > toombaru > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it all or nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or totally ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any progress involved or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > lastrain writes: > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > > > > toombaru > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it all or > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or totally > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any progress involved > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind? > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never become enlightened. Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed person. It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the words.....tries to copy the motions......and then envisions its self as all knowing....sometime in the future. The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000 " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Re: Toom-It ain't It! Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > lastrain writes: > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > > > > toombaru > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it all or > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or totally > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any progress involved > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never become enlightened. Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed person. It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self as all knowing....sometime in the future. The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self. toombaru But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is it that the sun can remain blocked by this shadow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 In a message dated 4/22/2006 8:46:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:25:03 -0000 " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Re: Toom-It ain't It! Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000 > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: Toom-It ain't It! > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it > all or > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or > totally > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any > progress involved > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never become > enlightened. > > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed person. > > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self as all > knowing....sometime in the future. > > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self. > > > > toombaru > > > > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is it that > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow? > > In a total eclipse of the sun.....it only appears from the perspective of earth........ that the sun is blocked. toombaru It's not just appearances. It really is blocked, but it's understood that the moon is doing the blocking. In the case of self, it is a shadow which blocks. The problem is seen. The question remains, how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > lastrain writes: > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > > > > toombaru > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it all or > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or totally > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any progress involved > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind? Neither. Is as is. No comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 In a message dated 4/22/2006 10:34:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 05:18:19 -0000 " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Re: Toom-It ain't It! Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/22/2006 8:46:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:25:03 -0000 > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: Toom-It ain't It! > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000 > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > Re: Toom-It ain't It! > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. > > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it > > all or > > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or > > totally > > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any > > progress involved > > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind? > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never become > > enlightened. > > > > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed > person. > > > > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the > > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self as all > > knowing....sometime in the future. > > > > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is > it that > > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow? > > > > > > In a total eclipse of the sun.....it only appears from the perspective > of earth........ that the sun is blocked. > > > > toombaru > > > > It's not just appearances. It really is blocked, but it's understood that > the moon is doing the blocking. In the case of self, it is a shadow which > blocks. The problem is seen. The question remains, how? > > " How " and " Why " are questions that even the greatest of sages never answer. toombaru Wasn't looking for an answer. Was just pondering why the question remained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000 > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: Toom-It ain't It! > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it > all or > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or > totally > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any > progress involved > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never become > enlightened. > > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed person. > > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self as all > knowing....sometime in the future. > > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self. > > > > toombaru > > > > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is it that > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow? > > In a total eclipse of the sun.....it only appears from the perspective of earth........ that the sun is blocked. toombaru > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/22/2006 8:46:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:25:03 -0000 > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: Toom-It ain't It! > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000 > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > Re: Toom-It ain't It! > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. > > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it > > all or > > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or > > totally > > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any > > progress involved > > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind? > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never become > > enlightened. > > > > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed > person. > > > > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the > > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self as all > > knowing....sometime in the future. > > > > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is > it that > > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow? > > > > > > In a total eclipse of the sun.....it only appears from the perspective > of earth........ that the sun is blocked. > > > > toombaru > > > > It's not just appearances. It really is blocked, but it's understood that > the moon is doing the blocking. In the case of self, it is a shadow which > blocks. The problem is seen. The question remains, how? > > " How " and " Why " are questions that even the greatest of sages never answer. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000 > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: Toom-It ain't It! > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it > all or > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or > totally > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any > progress involved > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never become > enlightened. > > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed person. > > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self as all > knowing....sometime in the future. > > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self. > > > > toombaru > > > > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is it that > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow? Because you think you are the shadow. Therefore all attention is focused on the shadow. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 In a message dated 4/23/2006 7:41:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:57:01 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Toom-It ain't It! --- In Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000 > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: Toom-It ain't It! > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or is it > all or > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened or > totally > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any > progress involved > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or blind? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never become > enlightened. > > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed person. > > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self as all > knowing....sometime in the future. > > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the self. > > > > toombaru > > > > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is it that > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow? Because you think you are the shadow. Therefore all attention is focused on the shadow. Len And if you know this to be so, then the shadow is no more, so the question still remains. Not saying there is no answer, only that the question remains in spite of answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000 > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > Re: Toom-It ain't It! > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. > > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or > is it > > all or > > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened > or > > totally > > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any > > progress involved > > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or > blind? > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never > become > > enlightened. > > > > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed > person. > > > > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the > > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self > as all > > knowing....sometime in the future. > > > > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the > self. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is > it that > > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow? > > > > Because you think you are the shadow. Therefore all attention is > focused on the shadow. > > Len A shadow can only be created when there is someplace else, outside of the sun, for its light to fall. If there is no outside, there is no shadow, plain and simple. To be concerned about how to unblock the sun, is itself the so-called shadow. You can't eliminate the shadow for someone else - thinking you can do so, is the shadow of your own creation. When for you, there is no outside for the sun's light, there is neither light nor shadow -- just " is " ... -- D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000 > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > Re: Toom-It ain't It! > > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > > > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. > > > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or > > is it > > > all or > > > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened > > or > > > totally > > > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any > > > progress involved > > > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or > > blind? > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never > > become > > > enlightened. > > > > > > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed > > person. > > > > > > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the > > > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self > > as all > > > knowing....sometime in the future. > > > > > > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the > > self. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is > > it that > > > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow? > > > > > > > > Because you think you are the shadow. Therefore all attention is > > focused on the shadow. > > > > Len > > A shadow can only be created when there is someplace else, outside of > the sun, for its light to fall. > > If there is no outside, there is no shadow, plain and simple. > > To be concerned about how to unblock the sun, is itself the so-called > shadow. You can't eliminate the shadow for someone else - thinking > you can do so, is the shadow of your own creation. > > When for you, there is no outside for the sun's light, there is > neither light nor shadow -- just " is " ... > > -- D. > :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/23/2006 7:41:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:57:01 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Toom-It ain't It! > > --- In Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/22/2006 7:13:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:12:39 -0000 > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > Re: Toom-It ain't It! > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > > > If anything can be known.......It ain't It. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > L.E: Perhaps that's good enough for 100 billion people. > > > Maybe it's some of it, part of it, a section or piece of it or > is it > > all or > > > nothing. Either you have it or you don't. Either enlightened > or > > totally > > > ignorant and lost in illusion like most everybody? Is there any > > progress involved > > > or is it a 1/0 situation. On or off. In or out. Seeing or > blind? > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > A Mind.....which is the source of the illusory self...can never > become > > enlightened. > > > > Mind looks at a sage and interprets what it sees as a transformed > person. > > > > It then tries to become like what it sees.....It reads the > > words.....tries to copy the motions......and envivions its self > as all > > knowing....sometime in the future. > > > > The problem....once seen......destroys all questions about the > self. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > But it doesn't destroy all questions. The question remains, how is > it that > > the sun can remain blocked by this shadow? > > > > Because you think you are the shadow. Therefore all attention is > focused on the shadow. > > Len > > > > And if you know this to be so, then the shadow is no more, so the question > still remains. Not saying there is no answer, only that the question remains in > spite of answers. There is " knowing " and there is actual perception. Intellectual answers are no answers at all. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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