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In my experience, it is not someone

outside us who is trying to *propel*

and recycle our thoughts! Thoughts are

propelled, created and recycled by us!

Though, much of this might happen

'indirectly', unconsciously and there

might be some delay between... 'what we

do now' and the thoughts that appear

later!

 

- freedom from thoughts looks

impossible until you become free of

them! Even the desires to be 'free of

them' looks just like another thought

which in turn seem to only start more

thoughts!

 

- When you find yourself submerged in

thoughts, only thing that does work

is... surrender! That is giving up all

'efforts', giving up all 'desires',

giving up all 'care', giving up all...

'doing'! That is... __Playing Dead__!

Imagine... what responses, what efforts

would occur... if you were dead just

this very Moment! Make only those

efforts that someone *dead* can make

i.e. make No Effort! In my experience,

this *does* work!

 

IMO... surrender is not that 'I have

given myself to God and I know only

*good* will happen'! IMO... surrender

is 'I am not making any effort now and

I don't care what happens'!

 

- Once you reach the state of 'no

thought', you see the *ground* on which

thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

where you have power to truly see,

observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

 

This SPACE is also known as Pure

Awareness, Consciousness... it is also

known as Peace! Until we reach that

SPACE... our effort is best directed

only to reach this space rather than

trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a

great way to reach that Space!

 

 

 

 

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In my experience, it is not someone

outside us who is trying to *propel*

and recycle our thoughts! Thoughts are

propelled, created and recycled by us!

 

~~~~~~~~

 

Alternative interpretation:

 

the *appearance of* an 'us' is created by

the cycling of thoughts.

 

 

Bill

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[...]

 

> - Once you reach the state of 'no

> thought', you see the *ground* on which

> thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> where you have power to truly see,

> observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

>

> This SPACE is also known as Pure

> Awareness, Consciousness... it is also

> known as Peace! Until we reach that

> SPACE... our effort is best directed

> only to reach this space rather than

> trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a

> great way to reach that Space!

>

 

 

- As long as we remain in *touch* with

this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace

is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with

this Space, we are powerless again and

we tend to become increasingly more

submerged [in thoughts] and

increasingly more powerless! Surrender

['no effort'] is again the way that can

get us *in touch* with Inner Peace!

 

- When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we

remain __At Home__, we remain in the

position of our Power and the things,

events lose their heaviness! They lose

their heaviness because we realize that

we *already* have that which matters

Most... we have Peace!

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Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote:

>

> [...]

>

> > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > where you have power to truly see,

> > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> >

> > This SPACE is also known as Pure

> > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also

> > known as Peace! Until we reach that

> > SPACE... our effort is best directed

> > only to reach this space rather than

> > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a

> > great way to reach that Space!

> >

 

>

> - As long as we remain in *touch* with

> this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace

> is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with

> this Space, we are powerless again and

> we tend to become increasingly more

> submerged [in thoughts] and

> increasingly more powerless! Surrender

> ['no effort'] is again the way that can

> get us *in touch* with Inner Peace!

>

> - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we

> remain __At Home__, we remain in the

> position of our Power and the things,

> events lose their heaviness! They lose

> their heaviness because we realize that

> we *already* have that which matters

> Most... we have Peace!

>

 

My take:

 

More or less yes, except...

 

Simply by relaxing attention we are

" at home " ...

 

" At home " has no location...

 

" At home " *is* peace/Peace...

 

No-one *has* Peace...

 

Peace is always the case, but unrecognized

when covered by the wheel of concerns.

 

The sense of a " we " (i.e. 'me') is simply the

activity of attention.

 

The 'me' is identification with the movement

of attention.

 

When attention is relaxed the identification

has no basis...

 

and What Is/Peace remains simply evident.

 

 

Bill

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[...]

>>>- When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we

remain __At Home__, we remain in the

position of our Power and the things,

events lose their heaviness! They lose

their heaviness because we realize that

we *already* have that which matters

Most... we have Peace!

 

 

- Remaining in touch with this Space

requires some of our *attention* bent

*inward* and it requires that some of

our attention [focus, awareness]

remains... *free of thoughts*!

 

- Dealing with *things*, words and

external stimuli requires some of our

attention directed towards them! We

live in *thought* word, and, work is

very much *thought centric*! Most

*entertainment* and *personal

communication* is even much more

*thought centric* than work!

 

- When you combine the above two,

*learning to live* becomes a practice

of being STILL [at peace] inside and

yet remain attentive and active

outside! It might require an alteration

between inward and outward movement!

Breathing is one such *natural*

movement... that can be used

alternately travel inward and outward!

 

- Not all thoughts require *movement

away from Peace* to the same degree!

Solving a purely technical problem,

objective study of facts or physical

objects may not require such a Movement!

 

- The thoughts that often cause such a

movement away from peace are thoughts

that concern a *me*... such as *my

job*, my life, my house, my money, my

family, my wife, my children, my

prestige, my respect, my image,

my pride!

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- Everything that we give our *partial*

attention to and do only with 'partial

consciousness'... [TV, news, sports

watching, shopping, politics, gossip,

idle chatting, sex...] tends to grow

and spread inside us and it tends to recycle!

 

- Anything that we do with Complete

FOCUS, Full Attention, Complete

Awareness and Full Consciousness tends

to dissolve in the moment and not leave

'unwanted' and 'unexamined' residue!

In stead, it only works to make us...

even more Conscious thereby, freeing us

further from the grip of recycling

thoughts!

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> - Everything that we give our *partial*

> attention to and do only with 'partial

> consciousness'... [TV, news, sports

> watching, shopping, politics, gossip,

> idle chatting, sex...] tends to grow

> and spread inside us and it tends to recycle!

>

> - Anything that we do with Complete

> FOCUS, Full Attention, Complete

> Awareness and Full Consciousness tends

> to dissolve in the moment and not leave

> 'unwanted' and 'unexamined' residue!

> In stead, it only works to make us...

> even more Conscious thereby, freeing us

> further from the grip of recycling

> thoughts!

>

 

It seems thoughts recycle because of an

underlying feeling that we have

*missed* something or there was

something that we could/should have done

better or differently!

 

When we pay our

Full Attention to the Present Moment,

such *belief* doesn't take root as we

KNOW we are already doing it with

Complete Awareness [thereby not

*missing* that which we can be avoided

missing] and we know that with Full

Consciousness are doing the BEST that

we can do in this Moment!

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@>

wrote:

> >

> > [...]

> >

> > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

 

 

No, this is wrong teaching.

there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that is

trying to maintain a control on mind and world.

Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and so on...

 

> > >

> > > This SPACE is also known as Pure

> > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also

> > > known as Peace! Until we reach that

> > > SPACE... our effort is best directed

> > > only to reach this space rather than

> > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a

> > > great way to reach that Space!

> > >

>

> >

> > - As long as we remain in *touch* with

> > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace

> > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with

> > this Space, we are powerless again and

> > we tend to become increasingly more

> > submerged [in thoughts] and

> > increasingly more powerless! Surrender

> > ['no effort'] is again the way that can

> > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace!

> >

> > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we

> > remain __At Home__, we remain in the

> > position of our Power and the things,

> > events lose their heaviness! They lose

> > their heaviness because we realize that

> > we *already* have that which matters

> > Most... we have Peace!

> >

>

> My take:

>

> More or less yes, except...

>

> Simply by relaxing attention we are

> " at home " ...

>

> " At home " has no location...

>

> " At home " *is* peace/Peace...

>

> No-one *has* Peace...

>

> Peace is always the case, but unrecognized

> when covered by the wheel of concerns.

>

> The sense of a " we " (i.e. 'me') is simply the

> activity of attention.

>

> The 'me' is identification with the movement

> of attention.

>

> When attention is relaxed the identification

> has no basis...

>

> and What Is/Peace remains simply evident.

>

>

> Bill

>

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn

wrote:

>

> In my experience, it is not someone

> outside us who is trying to *propel*

> and recycle our thoughts! Thoughts are

> propelled, created and recycled by us!

>

> ~~~~~~~~

>

> Alternative interpretation:

>

> the *appearance of* an 'us' is created by

> the cycling of thoughts.

>

>

> Bill

 

 

Yep, and the appearance of a pizza is also created by the cycling of

thoughts. Fascinating!

 

len

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Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming

wrote:

>

> [...]

>

> > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > where you have power to truly see,

> > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> >

> > This SPACE is also known as Pure

> > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also

> > known as Peace! Until we reach that

> > SPACE... our effort is best directed

> > only to reach this space rather than

> > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a

> > great way to reach that Space!

> >

>

>

> - As long as we remain in *touch* with

> this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace

> is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with

> this Space, we are powerless again and

> we tend to become increasingly more

> submerged [in thoughts] and

> increasingly more powerless! Surrender

> ['no effort'] is again the way that can

> get us *in touch* with Inner Peace!

>

> - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we

> remain __At Home__, we remain in the

> position of our Power and the things,

> events lose their heaviness! They lose

> their heaviness because we realize that

> we *already* have that which matters

> Most... we have Peace!

 

 

 

Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy iron

chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of Peace.

No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-)

 

Len

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Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > [...]

> > >

> > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

>

>

> No, this is wrong teaching.

> there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that is

> trying to maintain a control on mind and world.

> Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and so on...

 

Quite so.

 

There is an excitement in the words as a

result of transformation...

 

but the transformation is incomplete

 

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> wrote:

> >

> > In my experience, it is not someone

> > outside us who is trying to *propel*

> > and recycle our thoughts! Thoughts are

> > propelled, created and recycled by us!

> >

> > ~~~~~~~~

> >

> > Alternative interpretation:

> >

> > the *appearance of* an 'us' is created by

> > the cycling of thoughts.

> >

> >

> > Bill

>

>

> Yep, and the appearance of a pizza is also created by the cycling of

> thoughts. Fascinating!

>

> len

>

 

Yes... anything that is *named* is hooked into thought.

 

I don't see that it has always to be a " cycling " ...

 

I see the cycling as tied into processes entailing ownership.

 

Depends on what you mean by " cycling " ...

 

For example, taking a walk a bird lands on a branch nearby

and I say to my friend, " Look! A bluejay! "

 

That entails memory, but not a cycling as I see it.

 

When I said 'cycling' I was thinking more of a *thrashing*,

of a process that is *feeding on itself*.

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind "

<adithya_comming@>

> > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > [...]

> > > >

> > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> >

> >

> > No, this is wrong teaching.

> > there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that is

> > trying to maintain a control on mind and world.

> > Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and so

on...

>

> Quite so.

>

> There is an excitement in the words as a

> result of transformation...

>

> but the transformation is incomplete

>

>

> Bill

 

 

True.

The ground on which thoughts grow, and where you have power to

cultivate and select them is found.

What´s left to do, is the realization that this ground is a thought

too ;-)

 

Len

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Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@>

> wrote:

> >

> > [...]

> >

> > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> > >

> > > This SPACE is also known as Pure

> > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also

> > > known as Peace! Until we reach that

> > > SPACE... our effort is best directed

> > > only to reach this space rather than

> > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a

> > > great way to reach that Space!

> > >

> >

> >

> > - As long as we remain in *touch* with

> > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace

> > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with

> > this Space, we are powerless again and

> > we tend to become increasingly more

> > submerged [in thoughts] and

> > increasingly more powerless! Surrender

> > ['no effort'] is again the way that can

> > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace!

> >

> > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we

> > remain __At Home__, we remain in the

> > position of our Power and the things,

> > events lose their heaviness! They lose

> > their heaviness because we realize that

> > we *already* have that which matters

> > Most... we have Peace!

>

>

>

> Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy iron

> chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of Peace.

> No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-)

>

> Len

>

 

whereas, on the other hand, if no chain at all...

 

what would you call that?

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind "

> <adithya_comming@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > [...]

> > > > >

> > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > > > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> > >

> > >

> > > No, this is wrong teaching.

> > > there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that is

> > > trying to maintain a control on mind and world.

> > > Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and so

> on...

> >

> > Quite so.

> >

> > There is an excitement in the words as a

> > result of transformation...

> >

> > but the transformation is incomplete

> >

> >

> > Bill

>

>

> True.

> The ground on which thoughts grow, and where you have power to

> cultivate and select them is found.

> What´s left to do, is the realization that this ground is a thought

> too ;-)

>

> Len

>

 

quite so!

 

and then the realization that any need to communicate

about whatever realization...

that too is empty, not-urgent...

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > [...]

> > >

> > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> > > >

> > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure

> > > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also

> > > > known as Peace! Until we reach that

> > > > SPACE... our effort is best directed

> > > > only to reach this space rather than

> > > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a

> > > > great way to reach that Space!

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with

> > > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace

> > > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with

> > > this Space, we are powerless again and

> > > we tend to become increasingly more

> > > submerged [in thoughts] and

> > > increasingly more powerless! Surrender

> > > ['no effort'] is again the way that can

> > > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace!

> > >

> > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we

> > > remain __At Home__, we remain in the

> > > position of our Power and the things,

> > > events lose their heaviness! They lose

> > > their heaviness because we realize that

> > > we *already* have that which matters

> > > Most... we have Peace!

> >

> >

> >

> > Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy

iron

> > chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of Peace.

> > No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-)

> >

> > Len

> >

>

> whereas, on the other hand, if no chain at all...

>

> what would you call that?

>

> Bill

 

 

Freedom.

 

Len

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind "

> > <adithya_comming@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [...]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > > > > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > No, this is wrong teaching.

> > > > there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that

is

> > > > trying to maintain a control on mind and world.

> > > > Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and

so

> > on...

> > >

> > > Quite so.

> > >

> > > There is an excitement in the words as a

> > > result of transformation...

> > >

> > > but the transformation is incomplete

> > >

> > >

> > > Bill

> >

> >

> > True.

> > The ground on which thoughts grow, and where you have power to

> > cultivate and select them is found.

> > What´s left to do, is the realization that this ground is a

thought

> > too ;-)

> >

> > Len

> >

>

> quite so!

>

> and then the realization that any need to communicate

> about whatever realization...

> that too is empty, not-urgent...

>

> Bill

 

 

....and then the realization that this realization

is a concept too ;-)

 

Len

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Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind "

<adithya_comming@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > [...]

> > > >

> > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> > > > >

> > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure

> > > > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also

> > > > > known as Peace! Until we reach that

> > > > > SPACE... our effort is best directed

> > > > > only to reach this space rather than

> > > > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a

> > > > > great way to reach that Space!

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with

> > > > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace

> > > > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with

> > > > this Space, we are powerless again and

> > > > we tend to become increasingly more

> > > > submerged [in thoughts] and

> > > > increasingly more powerless! Surrender

> > > > ['no effort'] is again the way that can

> > > > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace!

> > > >

> > > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we

> > > > remain __At Home__, we remain in the

> > > > position of our Power and the things,

> > > > events lose their heaviness! They lose

> > > > their heaviness because we realize that

> > > > we *already* have that which matters

> > > > Most... we have Peace!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy

> iron

> > > chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of

Peace.

> > > No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-)

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> >

> > whereas, on the other hand, if no chain at all...

> >

> > what would you call that?

> >

> > Bill

>

>

> Freedom.

>

> Len

>

 

And who is enjoying that freedom ?

 

Werner

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Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > [...]

> > > >

> > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> > > > >

> > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure

> > > > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also

> > > > > known as Peace! Until we reach that

> > > > > SPACE... our effort is best directed

> > > > > only to reach this space rather than

> > > > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a

> > > > > great way to reach that Space!

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with

> > > > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace

> > > > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with

> > > > this Space, we are powerless again and

> > > > we tend to become increasingly more

> > > > submerged [in thoughts] and

> > > > increasingly more powerless! Surrender

> > > > ['no effort'] is again the way that can

> > > > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace!

> > > >

> > > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we

> > > > remain __At Home__, we remain in the

> > > > position of our Power and the things,

> > > > events lose their heaviness! They lose

> > > > their heaviness because we realize that

> > > > we *already* have that which matters

> > > > Most... we have Peace!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy

> iron

> > > chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of Peace.

> > > No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-)

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> >

> > whereas, on the other hand, if no chain at all...

> >

> > what would you call that?

> >

> > Bill

>

>

> Freedom.

>

> Len

>

 

:))

 

pretty direct way of putting it!

 

and I call that Now

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

<lissbon2002@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind "

<adithya_comming@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > [...]

> > > > >

> > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > > > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure

> > > > > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also

> > > > > > known as Peace! Until we reach that

> > > > > > SPACE... our effort is best directed

> > > > > > only to reach this space rather than

> > > > > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a

> > > > > > great way to reach that Space!

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with

> > > > > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace

> > > > > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with

> > > > > this Space, we are powerless again and

> > > > > we tend to become increasingly more

> > > > > submerged [in thoughts] and

> > > > > increasingly more powerless! Surrender

> > > > > ['no effort'] is again the way that can

> > > > > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace!

> > > > >

> > > > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we

> > > > > remain __At Home__, we remain in the

> > > > > position of our Power and the things,

> > > > > events lose their heaviness! They lose

> > > > > their heaviness because we realize that

> > > > > we *already* have that which matters

> > > > > Most... we have Peace!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a

heavy

> > iron

> > > > chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of

Peace.

> > > > No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-)

> > > >

> > > > Len

> > > >

> > >

> > > whereas, on the other hand, if no chain at all...

> > >

> > > what would you call that?

> > >

> > > Bill

> >

> >

> > Freedom.

> >

> > Len

> >

>

> :))

>

> pretty direct way of putting it!

>

> and I call that Now

>

> Bill

 

 

 

There is a difference between no chains because the nature of chains

in understood, and no chains, because the awareness of chains is

lacking ;-) The latter is not freedom, but a concept.

 

Len

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Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@>

> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind "

> > > <adithya_comming@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [...]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > > > > > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > No, this is wrong teaching.

> > > > > there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that

> is

> > > > > trying to maintain a control on mind and world.

> > > > > Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and

> so

> > > on...

> > > >

> > > > Quite so.

> > > >

> > > > There is an excitement in the words as a

> > > > result of transformation...

> > > >

> > > > but the transformation is incomplete

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > >

> > >

> > > True.

> > > The ground on which thoughts grow, and where you have power to

> > > cultivate and select them is found.

> > > What�s left to do, is the realization that this ground is a

> thought

> > > too ;-)

> > >

> > > Len

> > >

> >

> > quite so!

> >

> > and then the realization that any need to communicate

> > about whatever realization...

> > that too is empty, not-urgent...

> >

> > Bill

>

>

> ...and then the realization that this realization

> is a concept too ;-)

>

> Len

>

 

it would seem to become an infinite regress...

but at some point the " bubble pops " ...

 

and then what remains is just the sparkle of Now

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind "

> <adithya_comming@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > [...]

> > > > >

> > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > > > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure

> > > > > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also

> > > > > > known as Peace! Until we reach that

> > > > > > SPACE... our effort is best directed

> > > > > > only to reach this space rather than

> > > > > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a

> > > > > > great way to reach that Space!

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with

> > > > > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace

> > > > > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with

> > > > > this Space, we are powerless again and

> > > > > we tend to become increasingly more

> > > > > submerged [in thoughts] and

> > > > > increasingly more powerless! Surrender

> > > > > ['no effort'] is again the way that can

> > > > > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace!

> > > > >

> > > > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we

> > > > > remain __At Home__, we remain in the

> > > > > position of our Power and the things,

> > > > > events lose their heaviness! They lose

> > > > > their heaviness because we realize that

> > > > > we *already* have that which matters

> > > > > Most... we have Peace!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy

> > iron

> > > > chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of

> Peace.

> > > > No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-)

> > > >

> > > > Len

> > > >

> > >

> > > whereas, on the other hand, if no chain at all...

> > >

> > > what would you call that?

> > >

> > > Bill

> >

> >

> > Freedom.

> >

> > Len

> >

>

> And who is enjoying that freedom ?

>

> Werner

>

 

Is true freedom really *enjoyed*?

 

It just is.

 

One could say that the Now is limitless.

 

And one could ask, " Who enjoys that limitlessness? "

No one. It is not enjoyed in the sense that someone

might enjoy an ice cream cone.

 

It is the very nature of Freedom that there is

no one to enjoy it.

 

And that is the very beauty of it.

 

One/someone might " have " freedom,

there is no one that has Freedom.

 

And here the term Freedom = Now = What Is.

 

True Freedom *is* in-joy-ment...

True Freedom *is* Joy.

But it is so light, so spacious, so vast.

No one could ever " have " that.

 

Bill

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I noticed that I am able to pay FULL

Attention to the Present Moment only

when I am internally at Peace!

 

....I noticed that when I pay Full

Attention to the Present Moment, I

become Peaceful inside!

 

 

I noticed that when I pay Full

Attention to the Present Moment, any

prior expectation that I might have from

it... automatically drops!

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>

> I noticed that I am able to pay FULL

> Attention to the Present Moment only

> when I am internally at Peace!

>

> ...I noticed that when I pay Full

> Attention to the Present Moment, I

> become Peaceful inside!

>

>

> I noticed that when I pay Full

> Attention to the Present Moment, any

> prior expectation that I might have from

> it... automatically drops!

>

 

And, that I found can work like a Key!

 

Jus as the darkness ceases when we

light a torch...

 

In same way, mental noise ceases when

we bring our Full Attention to the

Present Moment!

 

And, just as dispelling darkness

simply requires Light, dispelling

unwanted thoughts simply requires Full

Awareness in the Present Moment!

 

And, just as dispelling darkness by

using light doesn't require elaborate

study of the causes and natures of

darkness, similarly gaining peace is

not dependent on the elaborate

knowledge of " thoughts " !

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Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 "

<lissbon2002@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba "

<bigwaaba@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel "

<illusyn@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind "

> > > > <adithya_comming@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > [...]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no

> > > > > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which

> > > > > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE

> > > > > > > > > where you have power to truly see,

> > > > > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts!

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No, this is wrong teaching.

> > > > > > there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part

that

> > is

> > > > > > trying to maintain a control on mind and world.

> > > > > > Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select "

and

> > so

> > > > on...

> > > > >

> > > > > Quite so.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is an excitement in the words as a

> > > > > result of transformation...

> > > > >

> > > > > but the transformation is incomplete

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Bill

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > True.

> > > > The ground on which thoughts grow, and where you have power

to

> > > > cultivate and select them is found.

> > > > What�s left to do, is the realization that this ground is

a

> > thought

> > > > too ;-)

> > > >

> > > > Len

> > > >

> > >

> > > quite so!

> > >

> > > and then the realization that any need to communicate

> > > about whatever realization...

> > > that too is empty, not-urgent...

> > >

> > > Bill

> >

> >

> > ...and then the realization that this realization

> > is a concept too ;-)

> >

> > Len

> >

>

> it would seem to become an infinite regress...

> but at some point the " bubble pops " ...

>

> and then what remains is just the sparkle of Now

>

> Bill

 

 

 

No, then one comes back on earth, and real life starts.

With all these annoying things one would rather not own ;-)

 

Len

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