Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 In my experience, it is not someone outside us who is trying to *propel* and recycle our thoughts! Thoughts are propelled, created and recycled by us! Though, much of this might happen 'indirectly', unconsciously and there might be some delay between... 'what we do now' and the thoughts that appear later! - freedom from thoughts looks impossible until you become free of them! Even the desires to be 'free of them' looks just like another thought which in turn seem to only start more thoughts! - When you find yourself submerged in thoughts, only thing that does work is... surrender! That is giving up all 'efforts', giving up all 'desires', giving up all 'care', giving up all... 'doing'! That is... __Playing Dead__! Imagine... what responses, what efforts would occur... if you were dead just this very Moment! Make only those efforts that someone *dead* can make i.e. make No Effort! In my experience, this *does* work! IMO... surrender is not that 'I have given myself to God and I know only *good* will happen'! IMO... surrender is 'I am not making any effort now and I don't care what happens'! - Once you reach the state of 'no thought', you see the *ground* on which thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE where you have power to truly see, observe, select and cultivate thoughts! This SPACE is also known as Pure Awareness, Consciousness... it is also known as Peace! Until we reach that SPACE... our effort is best directed only to reach this space rather than trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a great way to reach that Space! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 In my experience, it is not someone outside us who is trying to *propel* and recycle our thoughts! Thoughts are propelled, created and recycled by us! ~~~~~~~~ Alternative interpretation: the *appearance of* an 'us' is created by the cycling of thoughts. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 [...] > - Once you reach the state of 'no > thought', you see the *ground* on which > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > where you have power to truly see, > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > This SPACE is also known as Pure > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also > known as Peace! Until we reach that > SPACE... our effort is best directed > only to reach this space rather than > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a > great way to reach that Space! > - As long as we remain in *touch* with this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with this Space, we are powerless again and we tend to become increasingly more submerged [in thoughts] and increasingly more powerless! Surrender ['no effort'] is again the way that can get us *in touch* with Inner Peace! - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we remain __At Home__, we remain in the position of our Power and the things, events lose their heaviness! They lose their heaviness because we realize that we *already* have that which matters Most... we have Peace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > where you have power to truly see, > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also > > known as Peace! Until we reach that > > SPACE... our effort is best directed > > only to reach this space rather than > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a > > great way to reach that Space! > > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with > this Space, we are powerless again and > we tend to become increasingly more > submerged [in thoughts] and > increasingly more powerless! Surrender > ['no effort'] is again the way that can > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace! > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we > remain __At Home__, we remain in the > position of our Power and the things, > events lose their heaviness! They lose > their heaviness because we realize that > we *already* have that which matters > Most... we have Peace! > My take: More or less yes, except... Simply by relaxing attention we are " at home " ... " At home " has no location... " At home " *is* peace/Peace... No-one *has* Peace... Peace is always the case, but unrecognized when covered by the wheel of concerns. The sense of a " we " (i.e. 'me') is simply the activity of attention. The 'me' is identification with the movement of attention. When attention is relaxed the identification has no basis... and What Is/Peace remains simply evident. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 [...] >>>- When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we remain __At Home__, we remain in the position of our Power and the things, events lose their heaviness! They lose their heaviness because we realize that we *already* have that which matters Most... we have Peace! - Remaining in touch with this Space requires some of our *attention* bent *inward* and it requires that some of our attention [focus, awareness] remains... *free of thoughts*! - Dealing with *things*, words and external stimuli requires some of our attention directed towards them! We live in *thought* word, and, work is very much *thought centric*! Most *entertainment* and *personal communication* is even much more *thought centric* than work! - When you combine the above two, *learning to live* becomes a practice of being STILL [at peace] inside and yet remain attentive and active outside! It might require an alteration between inward and outward movement! Breathing is one such *natural* movement... that can be used alternately travel inward and outward! - Not all thoughts require *movement away from Peace* to the same degree! Solving a purely technical problem, objective study of facts or physical objects may not require such a Movement! - The thoughts that often cause such a movement away from peace are thoughts that concern a *me*... such as *my job*, my life, my house, my money, my family, my wife, my children, my prestige, my respect, my image, my pride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 - Everything that we give our *partial* attention to and do only with 'partial consciousness'... [TV, news, sports watching, shopping, politics, gossip, idle chatting, sex...] tends to grow and spread inside us and it tends to recycle! - Anything that we do with Complete FOCUS, Full Attention, Complete Awareness and Full Consciousness tends to dissolve in the moment and not leave 'unwanted' and 'unexamined' residue! In stead, it only works to make us... even more Conscious thereby, freeing us further from the grip of recycling thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 > - Everything that we give our *partial* > attention to and do only with 'partial > consciousness'... [TV, news, sports > watching, shopping, politics, gossip, > idle chatting, sex...] tends to grow > and spread inside us and it tends to recycle! > > - Anything that we do with Complete > FOCUS, Full Attention, Complete > Awareness and Full Consciousness tends > to dissolve in the moment and not leave > 'unwanted' and 'unexamined' residue! > In stead, it only works to make us... > even more Conscious thereby, freeing us > further from the grip of recycling > thoughts! > It seems thoughts recycle because of an underlying feeling that we have *missed* something or there was something that we could/should have done better or differently! When we pay our Full Attention to the Present Moment, such *belief* doesn't take root as we KNOW we are already doing it with Complete Awareness [thereby not *missing* that which we can be avoided missing] and we know that with Full Consciousness are doing the BEST that we can do in this Moment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! No, this is wrong teaching. there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that is trying to maintain a control on mind and world. Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and so on... > > > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure > > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also > > > known as Peace! Until we reach that > > > SPACE... our effort is best directed > > > only to reach this space rather than > > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a > > > great way to reach that Space! > > > > > > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with > > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace > > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with > > this Space, we are powerless again and > > we tend to become increasingly more > > submerged [in thoughts] and > > increasingly more powerless! Surrender > > ['no effort'] is again the way that can > > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace! > > > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we > > remain __At Home__, we remain in the > > position of our Power and the things, > > events lose their heaviness! They lose > > their heaviness because we realize that > > we *already* have that which matters > > Most... we have Peace! > > > > My take: > > More or less yes, except... > > Simply by relaxing attention we are > " at home " ... > > " At home " has no location... > > " At home " *is* peace/Peace... > > No-one *has* Peace... > > Peace is always the case, but unrecognized > when covered by the wheel of concerns. > > The sense of a " we " (i.e. 'me') is simply the > activity of attention. > > The 'me' is identification with the movement > of attention. > > When attention is relaxed the identification > has no basis... > > and What Is/Peace remains simply evident. > > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > In my experience, it is not someone > outside us who is trying to *propel* > and recycle our thoughts! Thoughts are > propelled, created and recycled by us! > > ~~~~~~~~ > > Alternative interpretation: > > the *appearance of* an 'us' is created by > the cycling of thoughts. > > > Bill Yep, and the appearance of a pizza is also created by the cycling of thoughts. Fascinating! len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > where you have power to truly see, > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also > > known as Peace! Until we reach that > > SPACE... our effort is best directed > > only to reach this space rather than > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a > > great way to reach that Space! > > > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with > this Space, we are powerless again and > we tend to become increasingly more > submerged [in thoughts] and > increasingly more powerless! Surrender > ['no effort'] is again the way that can > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace! > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we > remain __At Home__, we remain in the > position of our Power and the things, > events lose their heaviness! They lose > their heaviness because we realize that > we *already* have that which matters > Most... we have Peace! Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy iron chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of Peace. No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > No, this is wrong teaching. > there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that is > trying to maintain a control on mind and world. > Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and so on... Quite so. There is an excitement in the words as a result of transformation... but the transformation is incomplete Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > In my experience, it is not someone > > outside us who is trying to *propel* > > and recycle our thoughts! Thoughts are > > propelled, created and recycled by us! > > > > ~~~~~~~~ > > > > Alternative interpretation: > > > > the *appearance of* an 'us' is created by > > the cycling of thoughts. > > > > > > Bill > > > Yep, and the appearance of a pizza is also created by the cycling of > thoughts. Fascinating! > > len > Yes... anything that is *named* is hooked into thought. I don't see that it has always to be a " cycling " ... I see the cycling as tied into processes entailing ownership. Depends on what you mean by " cycling " ... For example, taking a walk a bird lands on a branch nearby and I say to my friend, " Look! A bluejay! " That entails memory, but not a cycling as I see it. When I said 'cycling' I was thinking more of a *thrashing*, of a process that is *feeding on itself*. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > > > No, this is wrong teaching. > > there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that is > > trying to maintain a control on mind and world. > > Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and so on... > > Quite so. > > There is an excitement in the words as a > result of transformation... > > but the transformation is incomplete > > > Bill True. The ground on which thoughts grow, and where you have power to cultivate and select them is found. What´s left to do, is the realization that this ground is a thought too ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure > > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also > > > known as Peace! Until we reach that > > > SPACE... our effort is best directed > > > only to reach this space rather than > > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a > > > great way to reach that Space! > > > > > > > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with > > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace > > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with > > this Space, we are powerless again and > > we tend to become increasingly more > > submerged [in thoughts] and > > increasingly more powerless! Surrender > > ['no effort'] is again the way that can > > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace! > > > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we > > remain __At Home__, we remain in the > > position of our Power and the things, > > events lose their heaviness! They lose > > their heaviness because we realize that > > we *already* have that which matters > > Most... we have Peace! > > > > Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy iron > chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of Peace. > No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-) > > Len > whereas, on the other hand, if no chain at all... what would you call that? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " > <adithya_comming@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > > > > > > No, this is wrong teaching. > > > there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that is > > > trying to maintain a control on mind and world. > > > Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and so > on... > > > > Quite so. > > > > There is an excitement in the words as a > > result of transformation... > > > > but the transformation is incomplete > > > > > > Bill > > > True. > The ground on which thoughts grow, and where you have power to > cultivate and select them is found. > What´s left to do, is the realization that this ground is a thought > too ;-) > > Len > quite so! and then the realization that any need to communicate about whatever realization... that too is empty, not-urgent... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > > wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure > > > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also > > > > known as Peace! Until we reach that > > > > SPACE... our effort is best directed > > > > only to reach this space rather than > > > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a > > > > great way to reach that Space! > > > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with > > > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace > > > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with > > > this Space, we are powerless again and > > > we tend to become increasingly more > > > submerged [in thoughts] and > > > increasingly more powerless! Surrender > > > ['no effort'] is again the way that can > > > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace! > > > > > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we > > > remain __At Home__, we remain in the > > > position of our Power and the things, > > > events lose their heaviness! They lose > > > their heaviness because we realize that > > > we *already* have that which matters > > > Most... we have Peace! > > > > > > > > Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy iron > > chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of Peace. > > No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-) > > > > Len > > > > whereas, on the other hand, if no chain at all... > > what would you call that? > > Bill Freedom. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " > > <adithya_comming@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > > > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > > > > > > > > > No, this is wrong teaching. > > > > there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that is > > > > trying to maintain a control on mind and world. > > > > Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and so > > on... > > > > > > Quite so. > > > > > > There is an excitement in the words as a > > > result of transformation... > > > > > > but the transformation is incomplete > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > True. > > The ground on which thoughts grow, and where you have power to > > cultivate and select them is found. > > What´s left to do, is the realization that this ground is a thought > > too ;-) > > > > Len > > > > quite so! > > and then the realization that any need to communicate > about whatever realization... > that too is empty, not-urgent... > > Bill ....and then the realization that this realization is a concept too ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > > > > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure > > > > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also > > > > > known as Peace! Until we reach that > > > > > SPACE... our effort is best directed > > > > > only to reach this space rather than > > > > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a > > > > > great way to reach that Space! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with > > > > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace > > > > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with > > > > this Space, we are powerless again and > > > > we tend to become increasingly more > > > > submerged [in thoughts] and > > > > increasingly more powerless! Surrender > > > > ['no effort'] is again the way that can > > > > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace! > > > > > > > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we > > > > remain __At Home__, we remain in the > > > > position of our Power and the things, > > > > events lose their heaviness! They lose > > > > their heaviness because we realize that > > > > we *already* have that which matters > > > > Most... we have Peace! > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy > iron > > > chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of Peace. > > > No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-) > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > whereas, on the other hand, if no chain at all... > > > > what would you call that? > > > > Bill > > > Freedom. > > Len > And who is enjoying that freedom ? Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > > > > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure > > > > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also > > > > > known as Peace! Until we reach that > > > > > SPACE... our effort is best directed > > > > > only to reach this space rather than > > > > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a > > > > > great way to reach that Space! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with > > > > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace > > > > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with > > > > this Space, we are powerless again and > > > > we tend to become increasingly more > > > > submerged [in thoughts] and > > > > increasingly more powerless! Surrender > > > > ['no effort'] is again the way that can > > > > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace! > > > > > > > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we > > > > remain __At Home__, we remain in the > > > > position of our Power and the things, > > > > events lose their heaviness! They lose > > > > their heaviness because we realize that > > > > we *already* have that which matters > > > > Most... we have Peace! > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy > iron > > > chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of Peace. > > > No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-) > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > whereas, on the other hand, if no chain at all... > > > > what would you call that? > > > > Bill > > > Freedom. > > Len > ) pretty direct way of putting it! and I call that Now Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > > > > > > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure > > > > > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also > > > > > > known as Peace! Until we reach that > > > > > > SPACE... our effort is best directed > > > > > > only to reach this space rather than > > > > > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a > > > > > > great way to reach that Space! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with > > > > > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace > > > > > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with > > > > > this Space, we are powerless again and > > > > > we tend to become increasingly more > > > > > submerged [in thoughts] and > > > > > increasingly more powerless! Surrender > > > > > ['no effort'] is again the way that can > > > > > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace! > > > > > > > > > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we > > > > > remain __At Home__, we remain in the > > > > > position of our Power and the things, > > > > > events lose their heaviness! They lose > > > > > their heaviness because we realize that > > > > > we *already* have that which matters > > > > > Most... we have Peace! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy > > iron > > > > chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of Peace. > > > > No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-) > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > whereas, on the other hand, if no chain at all... > > > > > > what would you call that? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Freedom. > > > > Len > > > > ) > > pretty direct way of putting it! > > and I call that Now > > Bill There is a difference between no chains because the nature of chains in understood, and no chains, because the awareness of chains is lacking ;-) The latter is not freedom, but a concept. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " > > > <adithya_comming@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > > > > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, this is wrong teaching. > > > > > there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that > is > > > > > trying to maintain a control on mind and world. > > > > > Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and > so > > > on... > > > > > > > > Quite so. > > > > > > > > There is an excitement in the words as a > > > > result of transformation... > > > > > > > > but the transformation is incomplete > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > True. > > > The ground on which thoughts grow, and where you have power to > > > cultivate and select them is found. > > > What�s left to do, is the realization that this ground is a > thought > > > too ;-) > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > quite so! > > > > and then the realization that any need to communicate > > about whatever realization... > > that too is empty, not-urgent... > > > > Bill > > > ...and then the realization that this realization > is a concept too ;-) > > Len > it would seem to become an infinite regress... but at some point the " bubble pops " ... and then what remains is just the sparkle of Now Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " > <adithya_comming@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > > > > > > > > > This SPACE is also known as Pure > > > > > > Awareness, Consciousness... it is also > > > > > > known as Peace! Until we reach that > > > > > > SPACE... our effort is best directed > > > > > > only to reach this space rather than > > > > > > trying to stop thoughts! Surrender is a > > > > > > great way to reach that Space! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as we remain in *touch* with > > > > > this Space, we have Power! [inner Peace > > > > > is our Power!]! Once we lose touch with > > > > > this Space, we are powerless again and > > > > > we tend to become increasingly more > > > > > submerged [in thoughts] and > > > > > increasingly more powerless! Surrender > > > > > ['no effort'] is again the way that can > > > > > get us *in touch* with Inner Peace! > > > > > > > > > > - When we remain *rooted* in Peace, we > > > > > remain __At Home__, we remain in the > > > > > position of our Power and the things, > > > > > events lose their heaviness! They lose > > > > > their heaviness because we realize that > > > > > we *already* have that which matters > > > > > Most... we have Peace! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, chaining yourself down to the root of Peace with a heavy > > iron > > > > chain seems to be the best way to ensure the ownership of > Peace. > > > > No insurance needed. Think of the money you save :-) > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > whereas, on the other hand, if no chain at all... > > > > > > what would you call that? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Freedom. > > > > Len > > > > And who is enjoying that freedom ? > > Werner > Is true freedom really *enjoyed*? It just is. One could say that the Now is limitless. And one could ask, " Who enjoys that limitlessness? " No one. It is not enjoyed in the sense that someone might enjoy an ice cream cone. It is the very nature of Freedom that there is no one to enjoy it. And that is the very beauty of it. One/someone might " have " freedom, there is no one that has Freedom. And here the term Freedom = Now = What Is. True Freedom *is* in-joy-ment... True Freedom *is* Joy. But it is so light, so spacious, so vast. No one could ever " have " that. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 I noticed that I am able to pay FULL Attention to the Present Moment only when I am internally at Peace! ....I noticed that when I pay Full Attention to the Present Moment, I become Peaceful inside! I noticed that when I pay Full Attention to the Present Moment, any prior expectation that I might have from it... automatically drops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 > > I noticed that I am able to pay FULL > Attention to the Present Moment only > when I am internally at Peace! > > ...I noticed that when I pay Full > Attention to the Present Moment, I > become Peaceful inside! > > > I noticed that when I pay Full > Attention to the Present Moment, any > prior expectation that I might have from > it... automatically drops! > And, that I found can work like a Key! Jus as the darkness ceases when we light a torch... In same way, mental noise ceases when we bring our Full Attention to the Present Moment! And, just as dispelling darkness simply requires Light, dispelling unwanted thoughts simply requires Full Awareness in the Present Moment! And, just as dispelling darkness by using light doesn't require elaborate study of the causes and natures of darkness, similarly gaining peace is not dependent on the elaborate knowledge of " thoughts " ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Arvind " > > > > <adithya_comming@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Once you reach the state of 'no > > > > > > > > > thought', you see the *ground* on which > > > > > > > > > thoughts *grow*! This is the SPACE > > > > > > > > > where you have power to truly see, > > > > > > > > > observe, select and cultivate thoughts! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, this is wrong teaching. > > > > > > there is a part of this sharing that is true and a part that > > is > > > > > > trying to maintain a control on mind and world. > > > > > > Too much stress is still put on " you " , " power " , " select " and > > so > > > > on... > > > > > > > > > > Quite so. > > > > > > > > > > There is an excitement in the words as a > > > > > result of transformation... > > > > > > > > > > but the transformation is incomplete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > True. > > > > The ground on which thoughts grow, and where you have power to > > > > cultivate and select them is found. > > > > What�s left to do, is the realization that this ground is a > > thought > > > > too ;-) > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > quite so! > > > > > > and then the realization that any need to communicate > > > about whatever realization... > > > that too is empty, not-urgent... > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > ...and then the realization that this realization > > is a concept too ;-) > > > > Len > > > > it would seem to become an infinite regress... > but at some point the " bubble pops " ... > > and then what remains is just the sparkle of Now > > Bill No, then one comes back on earth, and real life starts. With all these annoying things one would rather not own ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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