Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 In a message dated 4/30/2006 7:25:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:47:27 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: nisargadatta says what? = no-ownership Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/29/2006 8:52:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:58:13 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: nisargadatta says what? = no-ownership > > > Lemme suggest that it may not be question of 'remaining > attention', but that > > there is a strong motivation to not place attention on > these 'images' for > > the exact reason you mention; they are mushrooms that can only > live in the dark. > > > > Phil > > > > Yes :-) If there is no interest in understanding and a strong > motivation to cling to images, there is no attention to the process > whatsoever... All emphasis is put on worshipping images, and > everything which may challenge their holiness is interpreted as a > danger. > But it seems that even without the problem of the motivation, > treating images as reality is such a strong habit, that we need > plenty of attention. > > Len > > > > Since you've had the experience of the illusion 'collapsing', this might be > of interest. There aren't any 'images' to go with it but I'll wing it. I've > noticed that the illusion is always on the verge of collapsing every moment, > and it's only through rather strenuous effort, conscious and unconscious, and > some tricks of mind that we are able to prevent this from happening. The > reason any effort happens at all is ultimately to hold up the fake scenery. This, > of course, makes liars of us all who imagine that we're looking for Reality > but refuse to stop the effort to hide it even for a moment. > > > It was a shock to notice that which we seek is so close that it literally > can't be avoided and must be ignored through these efforts, and the efforts are > very subtle and complex. Indeed. The reality of the self is a result of quasi constant mental effort, without which it collapses. It is evident and very funny when one isn´t caught in this process. However, this knowledge means nothing when one is caught in it, and plenty of attention is needed to see through it. As you say the effort is very subtle and complex, and can easily hide in any unexamined statement/concept, especially a concept of the unreality of the self, so popular among seekers ;-) Seeking is itself an effort, that´s why it´s so hard, if not impossible at all to " find " that is which is more then close, because it is just there, and only escapes because one is seeking. Len Yeah, it can't be found because the one looking for it is standing in the way. Hehe. It would be impossible to 'find', and so the focus can be removed from finding. Ego has done quite a vanishing act. It's a bit hard to challenge the perceived reality of something that is declared to not exist. An excellent hiding place. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/30/2006 7:25:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:47:27 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: nisargadatta says what? = no-ownership > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/29/2006 8:52:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:58:13 -0000 > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > Re: nisargadatta says what? = no-ownership > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lemme suggest that it may not be question of 'remaining > > attention', but that > > > there is a strong motivation to not place attention on > > these 'images' for > > > the exact reason you mention; they are mushrooms that can only > > live in the dark. > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > Yes :-) If there is no interest in understanding and a strong > > motivation to cling to images, there is no attention to the > process > > whatsoever... All emphasis is put on worshipping images, and > > everything which may challenge their holiness is interpreted as a > > danger. > > But it seems that even without the problem of the motivation, > > treating images as reality is such a strong habit, that we need > > plenty of attention. > > > > Len > > > > > > > > Since you've had the experience of the illusion 'collapsing', this > might be > > of interest. There aren't any 'images' to go with it but I'll wing > it. I've > > noticed that the illusion is always on the verge of collapsing > every moment, > > and it's only through rather strenuous effort, conscious and > unconscious, and > > some tricks of mind that we are able to prevent this from > happening. The > > reason any effort happens at all is ultimately to hold up the > fake scenery. This, > > of course, makes liars of us all who imagine that we're looking > for Reality > > but refuse to stop the effort to hide it even for a moment. > > > > > > It was a shock to notice that which we seek is so close that it > literally > > can't be avoided and must be ignored through these efforts, and > the efforts are > > very subtle and complex. > > > > > Indeed. The reality of the self is a result of quasi constant mental > effort, without which it collapses. It is evident and very funny > when one isn´t caught in this process. However, this knowledge means > nothing when one is caught in it, and plenty of attention is needed > to see through it. As you say the effort is very subtle and complex, > and can easily hide in any unexamined statement/concept, especially > a concept of the unreality of the self, so popular among seekers ;-) > Seeking is itself an effort, that´s why it´s so hard, if not > impossible at all to " find " that is which is more then close, > because it is just there, and only escapes because one is seeking. > > Len > > > > Yeah, it can't be found because the one looking for it is standing in the > way. Hehe. It would be impossible to 'find', and so the focus can be removed > from finding. > > Ego has done quite a vanishing act. It's a bit hard to challenge the > perceived reality of something that is declared to not exist. An excellent hiding > place. The best. Ego is very clever. It is funny, most people are just interested in pursuing ego goals, and those who pretend to be interested in understanding it, are also pursuing ego goals. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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