Guest guest Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Greetings! The Maharshi is written as saying "one should take sattvice food in moderation". Can someone please explain what is "sattvic" food? Namaste, wanda michael bindel <michael_bindel wrote: THE MAHARSHI November/December 2002Vol. 12 - No. 6 Produced & Edited byDennis HartelDr. Anil K. Sharma Surrender The following is from the talk given by Sri V. S. Ramanan, President of Sri Ramanasramam, in New York City at the September 8th, 2002 "Advent at Arunachala" program. The whole life of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi is a commentary on saranagati (surrender). When he left Madurai for good, he took just the train fare to Tiruvannamalai, threw away the packets of sweets given to him by Muthukrishna Bhagavathara’s wife and was not anxious for the morrow. He tore off from his dhoti only a strip for a kaupina (loin cloth) and he did not even think of using the remaining cloth as a towel. This is total surrender. Surrender is a practical proposition. It releases the devotee from life’s dilemma. Wherever Sri Krishna teaches about saranagati in the Bhagavad Gita he refers to ananya bhakti, where the instrument and the goal are one and the same. The same idea is stated by Sri Bhagavan in the fifth verse of "Arunachala Pancharatnam": One who surrenders his heart wholly to you, one who sees you in every aspect of creation, one who loves every creation as himself – he is the one who will succeed, O Arunachala! he will get immersed in you! Here Sri Bhagavan stresses ananya bhakti and self-surrender. It is interesting to note that Sri Krishna says, "Do not grieve." After surrendering yourself totally to God, you should not even worry about your own shortcomings or flaws. For if you think you have to improve yourself after surrender, then it indicates a residual ego in you. Hence, don’t grieve about your flaws after surrender. It only shows your surrender is incomplete. Bhagavan says after getting into a train, nobody carries the luggage on his head. He keeps it on the luggage-rack. Likewise, after surrendering, do not continue to carry your mental luggage. Leave it totally to His care. After surrender you should not have 1) worries, 2) fear, 3) doubt, 4) sorrow, 5) the inclination to test whether surrender is effective or not and 6) aberrations (conflicts). The devotee who has surrendered is like a lump of clay in the hands of the potter. The lump never says, "Make me a pot! Make me a cup, etc." It leaves it to the potter to mold it into whatever shape he wants it to become. Sri Bhagavan lays great value on ananya saranagati. There are several instances where He explains the concept to the questioner: "If you have surrender, it means that you must accept the will of God and not make a grievance of what may not happen to please you. Things may turn out differently from what they appear. Distress often leads people to faith in God. "The Lord bears the burden of the world. Know that the spurious ego which presumes to bear that burden is like a sculptured figure at the foot of a temple tower which appears to sustain the tower’s weight. There cannot even be impatience for speedy realization." To one who was so afflicted, he replied: "Surrender to Him and accept His will whether He appears or vanishes. Await His pleasure. If you want Him to do as you want, it is not surrender, but command. You cannot ask Him to obey you and yet think you have surrendered. He knows what is best and when and how to do it. Leave everything entirely to Him. That is what is meant by surrender." Even prayer can imply a lack of trust and Sri Bhagavan normally did not encourage prayer in the sense of petition: "They pray to God and finish with ‘Thy will be done’. If His will be done, why do they pray at all? It is true that Divine Will prevails at all times under all circumstances. Individuals cannot act of their own accord. Recognize the force of the Divine Will and keep quiet. Everyone is looked after by God. He created all. You are only one among two thousand millions. When He looks after so many, will He omit you? Even common sense dictates that one should accept His will. There is no need to tell Him your requirements. He knows them Himself and will look after them." To a devotee’s question Sri Bhagavan replied: "Gandhiji has surrendered himself to the Divine and works accordingly with no self interest. He does not concern himself with the results but accepts them as they turn up. That must be the attitude of national workers. "Devotee: Will the work be crowned with success? "Bhagavan: The question arises because the questioner has not surrendered himself." When a devotee questioned about unconditional surrender, Bhagavan replied: "If one surrenders completely, there will be no one left to ask questions or to be considered. Either the thoughts are eliminated by holding on to the root thought "I", or one surrenders unconditionally to the Higher Power. These are the only two ways to Realization." SportsRekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 Willful surrender is about as easy as lifting one's self up by its bootstraps. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2006 Report Share Posted April 30, 2006 In a message dated 4/29/2006 1:34:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:11:19 -0000 " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Surrender Willful surrender is about as easy as lifting one's self up by its bootstraps. toombaru Mucho true. The mind is like an iceberg...........No, wait, come back. Listen, the mind is like an iceberg, and the tip that's above water is the stuff we're aware of. This is where thinking and choosing and such happens, but the thoughts don't pop into the top of the iceberg. Instead, they bubble up from the submerged part that makes up the core of our beliefs and fears and needs and our understanding. We can't choose our thoughts because they don't originate in the conscious mind. We can't make choices about that 90% that's below water, cause we're not even consciously aware of all that, and even if we were, we couldn't change the essence of that with a conscious choice. The only reason it would look like we could is that we think all we are is that 10% that we consciously see, and we figure, no sweat, piece of cake. So, what I'm saying is that I agree. We can never make a choice about what we are being in that iceberg, only what the iceberg is doing and what ships it's sinking and such. But then that iceberg starts a-pondering, and it thinks, how does that 90% under there change in such a way that what the 10% chooses can actually come about? That core was created out of the accumulated understanding of a lifetime. If we could take a big ole hair dryer to that iceberg, no more iceberg, no problemo, but we can't do that. It already is what it is and it can't go away unless it drifts into the tropics or sumthin. The only way to change it is to add more experience. We can sit on top and read all the books in the iceberg library and it doesn't change much, as you know. But we can put on our diving suit and go down and 'see' what's in that ole burg and see if that's how we really want it to be or if we're willing to just let it melt away. P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/29/2006 1:34:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:11:19 -0000 > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Surrender > > > > > Willful surrender is about as easy as lifting one's self up by its > bootstraps. > > > toombaru > > > > Mucho true. The mind is like an iceberg...........No, wait, come back. > Listen, the mind is like an iceberg, and the tip that's above water is the stuff > we're aware of. This is where thinking and choosing and such happens, but the > thoughts don't pop into the top of the iceberg. Instead, they bubble up from > the submerged part that makes up the core of our beliefs and fears and needs > and our understanding. We can't choose our thoughts because they don't > originate in the conscious mind. We can't make choices about that 90% that's below > water, cause we're not even consciously aware of all that, and even if we > were, we couldn't change the essence of that with a conscious choice. The only > reason it would look like we could is that we think all we are is that 10% that > we consciously see, and we figure, no sweat, piece of cake. > > So, what I'm saying is that I agree. We can never make a choice about what > we are being in that iceberg, only what the iceberg is doing and what ships > it's sinking and such. But then that iceberg starts a-pondering, and it thinks, > how does that 90% under there change in such a way that what the 10% chooses > can actually come about? > > That core was created out of the accumulated understanding of a lifetime. If > we could take a big ole hair dryer to that iceberg, no more iceberg, no > problemo, but we can't do that. It already is what it is and it can't go away > unless it drifts into the tropics or sumthin. > > The only way to change it is to add more experience. We can sit on top and > read all the books in the iceberg library and it doesn't change much, as you > know. But we can put on our diving suit and go down and 'see' what's in that > ole burg and see if that's how we really want it to be or if we're willing to > just let it melt away. > > P I don´t think we need to go anywhere, to see. We´re already there, because we are it, but being almost constantly absorbed in the content of images, there is no attention left for being what one is. The language of being is entirely different from the language of thought, and we are so stuffed with images that there is hardly any attention left for factual perception. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 In a message dated 4/30/2006 7:25:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:08:28 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Surrender Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/29/2006 1:34:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:11:19 -0000 > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Surrender > > > > > Willful surrender is about as easy as lifting one's self up by its > bootstraps. > > > toombaru > > > > Mucho true. The mind is like an iceberg...........No, wait, come back. > Listen, the mind is like an iceberg, and the tip that's above water is the stuff > we're aware of. This is where thinking and choosing and such happens, but the > thoughts don't pop into the top of the iceberg. Instead, they bubble up from > the submerged part that makes up the core of our beliefs and fears and needs > and our understanding. We can't choose our thoughts because they don't > originate in the conscious mind. We can't make choices about that 90% that's below > water, cause we're not even consciously aware of all that, and even if we > were, we couldn't change the essence of that with a conscious choice. The only > reason it would look like we could is that we think all we are is that 10% that > we consciously see, and we figure, no sweat, piece of cake. > > So, what I'm saying is that I agree. We can never make a choice about what > we are being in that iceberg, only what the iceberg is doing and what ships > it's sinking and such. But then that iceberg starts a-pondering, and it thinks, > how does that 90% under there change in such a way that what the 10% chooses > can actually come about? > > That core was created out of the accumulated understanding of a lifetime. If > we could take a big ole hair dryer to that iceberg, no more iceberg, no > problemo, but we can't do that. It already is what it is and it can't go away > unless it drifts into the tropics or sumthin. > > The only way to change it is to add more experience. We can sit on top and > read all the books in the iceberg library and it doesn't change much, as you > know. But we can put on our diving suit and go down and 'see' what's in that > ole burg and see if that's how we really want it to be or if we're willing to > just let it melt away. > > P I don´t think we need to go anywhere, to see. We´re already there, because we are it, but being almost constantly absorbed in the content of images, there is no attention left for being what one is. The language of being is entirely different from the language of thought, and we are so stuffed with images that there is hardly any attention left for factual perception. Len Re: " language of being " , it's clear to me that thought arises from consciousness (beyond mind) but not in the form of thought. In this context, the mind converts 'it' to thought. I noticed the other day that feeling is what actually creates the focus in consciousness from which thought is derived. In this sense, it's actually willingness, openness, effortlessness and a kind of child like curiosity that makes it possible to 'see' intuitively into consciousness. Thought creates such feelings (hopefully) and then thought must be dropped. Wadaya 'think'? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > Re: " language of being " , it's clear to me that thought arises from > consciousness (beyond mind) but not in the form of thought. In this context, the mind > converts 'it' to thought. I noticed the other day that feeling is what > actually creates the focus in consciousness from which thought is derived. Are you sure? What I see is how thought, association, triggers a feeling. Without thought no feelings. > In this > sense, it's actually willingness, openness, effortlessness and a kind of > child like curiosity that makes it possible to 'see' intuitively into > consciousness. Thought creates such feelings (hopefully) and then thought must be > dropped. Wadaya 'think'? > > Phil I don´t understand what you mean. Can you explain? Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 In a message dated 5/1/2006 7:48:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Mon, 01 May 2006 12:34:18 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Surrender Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > Re: " language of being " , it's clear to me that thought arises from > consciousness (beyond mind) but not in the form of thought. In this context, the mind > converts 'it' to thought. I noticed the other day that feeling is what > actually creates the focus in consciousness from which thought is derived. Are you sure? What I see is how thought, association, triggers a feeling. Without thought no feelings. Oh, yes, feeling arises from thought, and this non-thought content of feeling is what 'points' to consciousness. That focus of consciousness somehow leads to thought. It 'feels' a bit incomplete, but that's what I see. > In this > sense, it's actually willingness, openness, effortlessness and a kind of > child like curiosity that makes it possible to 'see' intuitively into > consciousness. Thought creates such feelings (hopefully) and then thought must be > dropped. Wadaya 'think'? > > Phil I don´t understand what you mean. Can you explain? Len I'm suggesting that it's the curiosity, the openness to new ideas, the willingness to explore and ultimately the relaxing of mentation that allows, for example, the scientist to come to a realization which occurs in consciousness rather than in the brain. The realization of a solution to a complex problem, for example, does not occur without the contemplation of the problem, but the mentation must cease before the realization occurs. This is referred to as an 'AHA!' moment, which often occurs when the mind is resting following an intense thinking process. Mind/ego will take credit for it, but it didn't occur in mind, but was rather allowed to occur as a focus of consciousness. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/1/2006 7:48:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Mon, 01 May 2006 12:34:18 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Surrender > > > In this > > sense, it's actually willingness, openness, effortlessness and a > kind of > > child like curiosity that makes it possible to 'see' intuitively > into > > consciousness. Thought creates such feelings (hopefully) and then > thought must be > > dropped. Wadaya 'think'? > > > > Phil > > > I don´t understand what you mean. Can you explain? > > Len > > > > I'm suggesting that it's the curiosity, the openness to new ideas, the > willingness to explore and ultimately the relaxing of mentation that allows, for > example, the scientist to come to a realization which occurs in consciousness > rather than in the brain. The realization of a solution to a complex problem, > for example, does not occur without the contemplation of the problem, but the > mentation must cease before the realization occurs. This is referred to as > an 'AHA!' moment, which often occurs when the mind is resting following an > intense thinking process. Mind/ego will take credit for it, but it didn't occur > in mind, but was rather allowed to occur as a focus of consciousness. > > Phil Oh yes, now I get it. True, this is how intentions work as well. Simply the willigness, openness and curiosity to understand about something, without any following mental pursuite, but with readiness to let in whatever occurs and to watch it with attention. This is a pretty amazing energy, it can even hurt badly if you cannot let it in yet. This is probably why some understanding cannot come until one is capable to contain it, which comes down to the degree to which the ego defences are gone. The more narrow the (de)fences, the smaller the space for understanding, and then the energy of it hurts more, because it destroys the fences/protection mechanisms to which one clings too strongly. The stronger/more narrow the ego, the more the energy of understanding hurts and is being pushed away. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 In a message dated 5/3/2006 8:10:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: " lissbon2002 " lissbon2002 Wed May 3, 2006 4:18pm(PDT) Re: Surrender Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/1/2006 7:48:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Mon, 01 May 2006 12:34:18 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: Surrender > > > In this > > sense, it's actually willingness, openness, effortlessness and a > kind of > > child like curiosity that makes it possible to 'see' intuitively > into > > consciousness. Thought creates such feelings (hopefully) and then > thought must be > > dropped. Wadaya 'think'? > > > > Phil > > > I don´t understand what you mean. Can you explain? > > Len > > > > I'm suggesting that it's the curiosity, the openness to new ideas, the > willingness to explore and ultimately the relaxing of mentation that allows, for > example, the scientist to come to a realization which occurs in consciousness > rather than in the brain. The realization of a solution to a complex problem, > for example, does not occur without the contemplation of the problem, but the > mentation must cease before the realization occurs. This is referred to as > an 'AHA!' moment, which often occurs when the mind is resting following an > intense thinking process. Mind/ego will take credit for it, but it didn't occur > in mind, but was rather allowed to occur as a focus of consciousness. > > Phil Oh yes, now I get it. True, this is how intentions work as well. Simply the willigness, openness and curiosity to understand about something, without any following mental pursuite, but with readiness to let in whatever occurs and to watch it with attention. This is a pretty amazing energy, it can even hurt badly if you cannot let it in yet. This is probably why some understanding cannot come until one is capable to contain it, which comes down to the degree to which the ego defences are gone. The more narrow the (de)fences, the smaller the space for understanding, and then the energy of it hurts more, because it destroys the fences/protection mechanisms to which one clings too strongly. The stronger/more narrow the ego, the more the energy of understanding hurts and is being pushed away. Len The idea that such insight can only occur to the degree that ego has subsided makes a lot of sense. I don't recognize this " hurt " you're talking about. You mean a physical pain? Where? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/3/2006 8:10:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " lissbon2002 " lissbon2002 > Wed May 3, 2006 4:18pm(PDT) > Re: Surrender > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 5/1/2006 7:48:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > Mon, 01 May 2006 12:34:18 -0000 > > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > Re: Surrender > > > > > > > In this > > > sense, it's actually willingness, openness, effortlessness and > a > > kind of > > > child like curiosity that makes it possible to 'see' > intuitively > > into > > > consciousness. Thought creates such feelings (hopefully) and > then > > thought must be > > > dropped. Wadaya 'think'? > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > I don´t understand what you mean. Can you explain? > > > > Len > > > > > > > > I'm suggesting that it's the curiosity, the openness to new ideas, > the > > willingness to explore and ultimately the relaxing of mentation > that allows, for > > example, the scientist to come to a realization which occurs in > consciousness > > rather than in the brain. The realization of a solution to a > complex problem, > > for example, does not occur without the contemplation of the > problem, but the > > mentation must cease before the realization occurs. This is > referred to as > > an 'AHA!' moment, which often occurs when the mind is resting > following an > > intense thinking process. Mind/ego will take credit for it, but it > didn't occur > > in mind, but was rather allowed to occur as a focus of > consciousness. > > > > Phil > > > > Oh yes, now I get it. > True, this is how intentions work as well. Simply the willigness, > openness and curiosity to understand about something, without any > following mental pursuite, but with readiness to let in whatever > occurs and to watch it with attention. > This is a pretty amazing energy, it can even hurt badly if you > cannot let it in yet. This is probably why some understanding cannot > come until one is capable to contain it, which comes down to the > degree to which the ego defences are gone. The more > narrow the (de)fences, the smaller the space for understanding, and > then the energy of it hurts more, because it destroys the > fences/protection mechanisms to which one clings too strongly. > The stronger/more narrow the ego, the more the energy of > understanding hurts and is being pushed away. > > Len > > > > The idea that such insight can only occur to the degree that ego has > subsided makes a lot of sense. I don't recognize this " hurt " you're talking about. > You mean a physical pain? Where? > > Phil The (psychological)suffering is the function of the tension between the image we cling to and reality. The more threatening the perception of actual facts is to the belief we cling to, the more psychological suffering. It can be felt all over in the body as fearful tension. When the insight imposes itself through simple facts of life (like for instance a sudden loss) which are however rejected as unacceptable, a lot of painful tension is created. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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