Guest guest Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 < The key is that when something like that comes up < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I am < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am not < *trying to surrender* either. < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have learned < that when something " charged " comes up it is best < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to fight anything. < There is no state that is not grace. < Bill I believe another way of stating the above is " to be uncontracted in the presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. Krishnamurti put it, " to make absolutely no movement whatsoever in any direction " . Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > > < The key is that when something like that comes up > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I am > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am not > < *trying to surrender* either. > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have learned > < that when something " charged " comes up it is best > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to fight anything. > < There is no state that is not grace. > > < Bill > > I believe another way of stating the above is " to be uncontracted in the > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. Krishnamurti put it, " to make > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any direction " . > > Michael > The attempt to make no movement.....is movement. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2006 Report Share Posted April 30, 2006 > > < The key is that when something like that comes up > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I am > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am not > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have learned > > < that when something " charged " comes up it is best > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to fight anything. > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > < Bill > > > > I believe another way of stating the above is " to be uncontracted in > the > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. Krishnamurti put it, " to make > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any direction " . > > > > Michael > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is movement. > > > toombaru > You make the error of taking description for prescription here, toom. " Absolutely no movement whatsoever in any direction " need not be read as a prescription. You are right that any attempt at such is itself movement. But there can indeed be no movement whatsoever in any direction. It is when all intention has become utterly quiet. And how is it that all intention becomes utterly quiet? No recipe for that. Which is obvious given that any recipe entails intention. But that there is no recipe does not mean it does not occur. As long as there is desire to change what is, to " fix " the nature of experience, there will be turmoil and confusion. Which is why surrender is essential. Surrender is the giving up of not only of effort to fix, but of the very desire to fix. And even surrender cannot be intentionally chosen as something to " do " . When the nature of the operation of conditioning, not as theory, but in the actuality of direct experience, penetrates deeply enough surrender comes about as a " giving up " , as with a sigh at the utter futility of any effort to " improve " . In other words, real surrender is the outcome of despair. So it cannot be said that " surrender is the way " . That again is taking description for prescription. It is only through intense inquiry into the operation of conditioning that the futility of effort is seen, leading to true despair. And that is how I view Nisargadatta's emphasis on earnestness and inquiry. " Figuring things out " is of no avail. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > > > > < The key is that when something like that comes up > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I am > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am not > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have learned > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it is best > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to fight anything. > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > < Bill > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above is " to be uncontracted > in > > the > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. Krishnamurti put > it, " to make > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any direction " . > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is movement. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > You make the error of taking description for prescription > here, toom. It seems one of your favorite statements. However my impression is that it´s you who takes prescription for description, which comes down to taking an image/ideal for a fact. You probably repeat it so often in order to covince yourself ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that comes up > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I am > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am not > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have learned > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it is best > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to fight anything. > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > < Bill > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above is " to be > uncontracted > > in > > > the > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. Krishnamurti put > > it, " to make > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any direction " . > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is movement. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > You make the error of taking description for prescription > > here, toom. > > > It seems one of your favorite statements. > However my impression is that it´s you who takes prescription for > description, which comes down to taking an image/ideal for a fact. > You probably repeat it so often in order to covince yourself ;-) > > Len > Oh yes Len. I keep forgeting you are the God of Ego, and can smell ego on a person's breath... even in the way they use punctuation. Not interested in what you have to say Len. Period. So why do you keep proffering your little judgements? Passing judgement on others is what you know, so that is what you do. It is the only thing you know. It is your way of hiding the fact that you really don't have anything fresh in your repertorie. Focus on others, so your limitations are not so obvious. Had any fresh ideas lately? Perhaps I missed one. Please clue me in. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that comes up > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I am > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am not > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have learned > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it is best > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to fight anything. > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > < Bill What a graceful post , thank-you. Patricia > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above is " to be > uncontracted > > in > > > the > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. Krishnamurti put > > it, " to make > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any direction " . > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is movement. > > > > > > > > > toombaru Michael didn`t talk about attempting not to make any movements, he talked about non-reaction : immobility in face of adversity. Try it.... Oh you have ??... Then you know how it is!! No more formulas Toomb. I want milk. Patricia > _________________________ Faites de votre page d'accueil sur le web pour retrouver directement vos services préférés : vérifiez vos nouveaux mails, lancez vos recherches et suivez l'actualité en temps réel. Rendez-vous sur http://fr./set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that > comes up > > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I > am > > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am > not > > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have > learned > > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it is > best > > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to > fight anything. > > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > > > < Bill > > What a graceful post , thank-you. > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above is > " to be > > uncontracted > > > in > > > > the > > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. > Krishnamurti put > > > it, " to make > > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any > direction " . > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is movement. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Michael didn`t talk about attempting not to make any > movements, he talked about non-reaction : immobility > in face of adversity. > Try it.... Oh you have ??... > Then you know how it is!! > No more formulas Toomb. > I want milk. > > Patricia > > > > > > Any attempt by the self.......or any suggestion given to....or received by the self...is an effort to revive the dead. It is the illusion of self that wants and needs sustenance. Without food....it atrophies....but it can live a long time on nothing but memories. toombaru > > > _________________________ > Faites de votre page d'accueil sur le web pour retrouver directement vos services préférés : vérifiez vos nouveaux mails, lancez vos recherches et suivez l'actualité en temps réel. > Rendez-vous sur http://fr./set > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 --- toombaru2006 <lastrain a écrit : Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that > comes up > > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I > am > > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am > not > > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have > learned > > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it is > best > > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to > fight anything. > > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > > > < Bill > > What a graceful post , thank-you. > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above is > " to be > > uncontracted > > > in > > > > the > > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. > Krishnamurti put > > > it, " to make > > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any > direction " . > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is movement. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Michael didn`t talk about attempting not to make any > movements, he talked about non-reaction : immobility > in face of adversity. > Try it.... Oh you have ??... > Then you know how it is!! > No more formulas Toomb. > I want milk. > > Patricia > > > > > > Any attempt by the self.......or any suggestion given to....or received by the self...is an effort to revive the dead. It is the illusion of self that wants and needs sustenance. Without food....it atrophies....but it can live a long time on nothing but memories. toombaru maybe you don`t really try to read what we are talking about...it was not about revivification of the dead. When witnessing without reacting...you call that an attempt by the self? Where is the attempt? Or maybe you are just in need of clarifying what was suggested.. or maybe you like to have your name at the bottom of the list.. Which is fine with me.. Patricia P.S (so you don`t have to answer that one): any attempt at clarifying what does not exist is a loud cry in a deserted parking lot. > > > _________________________ > Faites de votre page d'accueil sur le web pour retrouver directement vos services préférés : vérifiez vos nouveaux mails, lancez vos recherches et suivez l'actualité en temps réel. > Rendez-vous sur http://fr./set > ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > --- toombaru2006 <lastrain a écrit : > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that > > comes up > > > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, > I > > am > > > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am > > not > > > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I > have > > learned > > > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it > is > > best > > > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to > > fight anything. > > > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > < Bill > > > > What a graceful post , thank-you. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above > is > > " to be > > > uncontracted > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. > > Krishnamurti put > > > > it, " to make > > > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any > > direction " . > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is > movement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Michael didn`t talk about attempting not to make any > > movements, he talked about non-reaction : immobility > > in face of adversity. > > Try it.... Oh you have ??... > > Then you know how it is!! > > No more formulas Toomb. > > I want milk. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any attempt by the self.......or any suggestion given > to....or > received by the self...is an effort to revive the > dead. > > It is the illusion of self that wants and needs > sustenance. > > Without food....it atrophies....but it can live a long > time on nothing > but memories. > > > toombaru > > maybe you don`t really try to read what we are talking > about...it was not about revivification of the dead. > When witnessing without reacting...you call that an > attempt by the self? Witnessing is reacting. The statement that witnessing is possible without reacting is an ideation concocted by self....for self. Michael says that he " allows himself to be what he is " . If he is allowing himself to be what he is....he isn't. " He " cannot see himself at any given time.....by the time he sees " himself " ....whatever that was has moves on..... This 'himself' that he claims to be able to allow to do what it is doing is nothing other then the one observing. He speaks as if there were two of him....one doing.....and one attempting to allow the observed doing. Can you see the problem here? (And yes......I have to admit......I do like my name at the bottom) toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 --- toombaru2006 <lastrain a écrit : Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > --- toombaru2006 <lastrain a écrit : > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that > > comes up > > > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, > I > > am > > > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am > > not > > > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I > have > > learned > > > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it > is > > best > > > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to > > fight anything. > > > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > < Bill > > > > What a graceful post , thank-you. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above > is > > " to be > > > uncontracted > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. > > Krishnamurti put > > > > it, " to make > > > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any > > direction " . > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is > movement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Michael didn`t talk about attempting not to make any > > movements, he talked about non-reaction : immobility > > in face of adversity. > > Try it.... Oh you have ??... > > Then you know how it is!! > > No more formulas Toomb. > > I want milk. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any attempt by the self.......or any suggestion given > to....or > received by the self...is an effort to revive the > dead. > > It is the illusion of self that wants and needs > sustenance. > > Without food....it atrophies....but it can live a long > time on nothing > but memories. > > > toombaru > > maybe you don`t really try to read what we are talking > about...it was not about revivification of the dead. > When witnessing without reacting...you call that an > attempt by the self? Witnessing is reacting. The statement that witnessing is possible without reacting is an ideation concocted by self....for self. Michael says that he " allows himself to be what he is " . If he is allowing himself to be what he is....he isn't. " He " cannot see himself at any given time.....by the time he sees " himself " ....whatever that was has moves on..... This 'himself' that he claims to be able to allow to do what it is doing is nothing other then the one observing. He speaks as if there were two of him....one doing.....and one attempting to allow the observed doing. Can you see the problem here? (And yes......I have to admit......I do like my name at the bottom) toombaru HHmmm intersting... I see the problem, But I don`t see the solution. Patricia P.s : I think I beat you to the last name on this post. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > --- toombaru2006 <lastrain a écrit : > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > --- toombaru2006 <lastrain@> a écrit : > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor > Patricia > > <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that > > > comes up > > > > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it > is, > > I > > > am > > > > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I > am > > > not > > > > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I > > have > > > learned > > > > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up > it > > is > > > best > > > > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to > > > fight anything. > > > > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < Bill > > > > > > What a graceful post , thank-you. > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above > > is > > > " to be > > > > uncontracted > > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. > > > Krishnamurti put > > > > > it, " to make > > > > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any > > > direction " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is > > movement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Michael didn`t talk about attempting not to make > any > > > movements, he talked about non-reaction : > immobility > > > in face of adversity. > > > Try it.... Oh you have ??... > > > Then you know how it is!! > > > No more formulas Toomb. > > > I want milk. > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any attempt by the self.......or any suggestion > given > > to....or > > received by the self...is an effort to revive the > > dead. > > > > It is the illusion of self that wants and needs > > sustenance. > > > > Without food....it atrophies....but it can live a > long > > time on nothing > > but memories. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > maybe you don`t really try to read what we are > talking > > about...it was not about revivification of the dead. > > When witnessing without reacting...you call that an > > attempt by the self? > > > > Witnessing is reacting. > > The statement that witnessing is possible without > reacting is an > ideation concocted by self....for self. > > Michael says that he " allows himself to be what he > is " . > > If he is allowing himself to be what he is....he > isn't. > > " He " cannot see himself at any given time.....by the > time he sees > " himself " ....whatever that was has moves on..... > > This 'himself' that he claims to be able to allow to > do what it is > doing is nothing other then the one observing. > > He speaks as if there were two of him....one > doing.....and one > attempting to allow the observed doing. > > Can you see the problem here? > > (And yes......I have to admit......I do like my name > at the bottom) > > > toombaru > > > HHmmm intersting... > I see the problem, > But I don`t see the solution. > Seeing that there never was a goose egg in a bottle solves the problem. toombaru (I think that I like you on the bottom) > Patricia > > P.s : I think I beat you to the last name on this > post. > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > change your subscription, sign in with your ID > and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " > for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 In a message dated 4/30/2006 7:25:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:14:41 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: More on " surrender " --- In Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > > > > < The key is that when something like that comes up > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I am > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am not > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have learned > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it is best > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to fight anything. > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > < Bill > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above is " to be uncontracted > in > > the > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. Krishnamurti put > it, " to make > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any direction " . > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is movement. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > You make the error of taking description for prescription > here, toom. It seems one of your favorite statements. However my impression is that it´s you who takes prescription for description, which comes down to taking an image/ideal for a fact. You probably repeat it so often in order to covince yourself ;-) Len We can learn a lot by talking to our'selves', and paying attention. It's actually very cool how that works. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 In a message dated 4/30/2006 7:25:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Mon, 01 May 2006 00:06:01 -0000 " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Re: More on " surrender " Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that > comes up > > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I > am > > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am > not > > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have > learned > > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it is > best > > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to > fight anything. > > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > > > < Bill > > What a graceful post , thank-you. > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above is > " to be > > uncontracted > > > in > > > > the > > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. > Krishnamurti put > > > it, " to make > > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any > direction " . > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is movement. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Michael didn`t talk about attempting not to make any > movements, he talked about non-reaction : immobility > in face of adversity. > Try it.... Oh you have ??... > Then you know how it is!! > No more formulas Toomb. > I want milk. > > Patricia > > > > > > Any attempt by the self.......or any suggestion given to....or received by the self...is an effort to revive the dead. It is the illusion of self that wants and needs sustenance. Without food....it atrophies....but it can live a long time on nothing but memories. toombaru What if instead of trying to kill it, you gave it a big ole bear hug, big enough to embrace the universe? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 In a message dated 4/30/2006 7:25:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Mon, 1 May 2006 03:31:10 +0200 (CEST) OConnor Patricia <gdtige RE: Re: More on " surrender " --- toombaru2006 <lastrain a écrit : Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > --- toombaru2006 <lastrain a écrit : > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that > > comes up > > > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, > I > > am > > > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am > > not > > > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I > have > > learned > > > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it > is > > best > > > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to > > fight anything. > > > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > < Bill > > > > What a graceful post , thank-you. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above > is > > " to be > > > uncontracted > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. > > Krishnamurti put > > > > it, " to make > > > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any > > direction " . > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is > movement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Michael didn`t talk about attempting not to make any > > movements, he talked about non-reaction : immobility > > in face of adversity. > > Try it.... Oh you have ??... > > Then you know how it is!! > > No more formulas Toomb. > > I want milk. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any attempt by the self.......or any suggestion given > to....or > received by the self...is an effort to revive the > dead. > > It is the illusion of self that wants and needs > sustenance. > > Without food....it atrophies....but it can live a long > time on nothing > but memories. > > > toombaru > > maybe you don`t really try to read what we are talking > about...it was not about revivification of the dead. > When witnessing without reacting...you call that an > attempt by the self? Witnessing is reacting. The statement that witnessing is possible without reacting is an ideation concocted by self....for self. Michael says that he " allows himself to be what he is " . If he is allowing himself to be what he is....he isn't. " He " cannot see himself at any given time.....by the time he sees " himself " ....whatever that was has moves on..... This 'himself' that he claims to be able to allow to do what it is doing is nothing other then the one observing. He speaks as if there were two of him....one doing.....and one attempting to allow the observed doing. Can you see the problem here? (And yes......I have to admit......I do like my name at the bottom) toombaru HHmmm intersting... I see the problem, But I don`t see the solution. Patricia P.s : I think I beat you to the last name on this post. The solution is to stop, but that's not something you can choose to do, so you keep going instead. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that comes up > > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I am > > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am not > > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have learned > > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it is best > > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to fight anything. > > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > > > < Bill > > > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above is " to be > > uncontracted > > > in > > > > the > > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. Krishnamurti put > > > it, " to make > > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any direction " . > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is movement. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > You make the error of taking description for prescription > > > here, toom. > > > > > > It seems one of your favorite statements. > > However my impression is that it´s you who takes prescription for > > description, which comes down to taking an image/ideal for a fact. > > You probably repeat it so often in order to covince yourself ;-) > > > > Len > > > > Oh yes Len. I keep forgeting you are the God of Ego, > and can smell ego on a person's breath... even in > the way they use punctuation. > > Not interested in what you have to say Len. Period. > So why do you keep proffering your little judgements? > > Passing judgement on others is what you know, so that is > what you do. > > It is the only thing you know. > > It is your way of hiding the fact that you really don't > have anything fresh in your repertorie. Focus on others, > so your limitations are not so obvious. > > Had any fresh ideas lately? > > Perhaps I missed one. Please clue me in. > > > Bill OK. No idea is ever fresh ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > --- toombaru2006 <lastrain@> a écrit : > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > > <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that > > > comes up > > > > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, > > I > > > am > > > > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am > > > not > > > > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I > > have > > > learned > > > > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it > > is > > > best > > > > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to > > > fight anything. > > > > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < Bill > > > > > > What a graceful post , thank-you. > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above > > is > > > " to be > > > > uncontracted > > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. > > > Krishnamurti put > > > > > it, " to make > > > > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any > > > direction " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is > > movement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Michael didn`t talk about attempting not to make any > > > movements, he talked about non-reaction : immobility > > > in face of adversity. > > > Try it.... Oh you have ??... > > > Then you know how it is!! > > > No more formulas Toomb. > > > I want milk. > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any attempt by the self.......or any suggestion given > > to....or > > received by the self...is an effort to revive the > > dead. > > > > It is the illusion of self that wants and needs > > sustenance. > > > > Without food....it atrophies....but it can live a long > > time on nothing > > but memories. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > maybe you don`t really try to read what we are talking > > about...it was not about revivification of the dead. > > When witnessing without reacting...you call that an > > attempt by the self? > > > > Witnessing is reacting. No. Every reaction can be witnessed. You confuse mental reacting and commenting with the observation. Len > The statement that witnessing is possible without reacting is an > ideation concocted by self....for self. > > Michael says that he " allows himself to be what he is " . > > If he is allowing himself to be what he is....he isn't. > > " He " cannot see himself at any given time.....by the time he sees > " himself " ....whatever that was has moves on..... > > This 'himself' that he claims to be able to allow to do what it is > doing is nothing other then the one observing. > > He speaks as if there were two of him....one doing.....and one > attempting to allow the observed doing. > > Can you see the problem here? > > (And yes......I have to admit......I do like my name at the bottom) > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/30/2006 7:25:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:14:41 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: More on " surrender " > > --- In Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that comes up > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I am > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am not > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have learned > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it is best > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to fight anything. > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > < Bill > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above is " to be > uncontracted > > in > > > the > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. Krishnamurti put > > it, " to make > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any direction " . > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is movement. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > You make the error of taking description for prescription > > here, toom. > > > It seems one of your favorite statements. > However my impression is that it´s you who takes prescription for > description, which comes down to taking an image/ideal for a fact. > You probably repeat it so often in order to covince yourself ;-) > > Len > > > > We can learn a lot by talking to our'selves', and paying attention. It's > actually very cool how that works. > > Phil Yes, but only if we pay attention. If we don´t, we can talk for ever ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 In a message dated 5/1/2006 7:48:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Mon, 01 May 2006 12:06:02 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: More on " surrender " --- In Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/30/2006 7:25:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:14:41 -0000 > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 > Re: More on " surrender " > > --- In Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > < The key is that when something like that comes up > > > > < and I allow myself to *be* whatever it is, I am > > > > < not trying to fix, heal, correct. And I am not > > > > < *trying to surrender* either. > > > > > > > > < It is, or at least seems to be, that I have learned > > > > < that when something " charged " comes up it is best > > > > < not to fight that. It is OK. No need to fight anything. > > > > < There is no state that is not grace. > > > > > > > > < Bill > > > > > > > > I believe another way of stating the above is " to be > uncontracted > > in > > > the > > > > presence of contraction " . As good ol' J. Krishnamurti put > > it, " to make > > > > absolutely no movement whatsoever in any direction " . > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to make no movement.....is movement. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > You make the error of taking description for prescription > > here, toom. > > > It seems one of your favorite statements. > However my impression is that it´s you who takes prescription for > description, which comes down to taking an image/ideal for a fact. > You probably repeat it so often in order to covince yourself ;-) > > Len > > > > We can learn a lot by talking to our'selves', and paying attention. It's > actually very cool how that works. > > Phil Yes, but only if we pay attention. If we don´t, we can talk for ever ;-) Len ........Huh?.......Wad ya say?........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.