Guest guest Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 > > < And what for do you want to surrender ? Is you wife arround ? > > < Werner > > Perhaps such things as " unlove, resentment, anger, condescenscion, > hatred, prejudice, indifference, smugness, malicious intent, > etc. " > Only annoying things you want to get rid off? ;-) > What about pleasure and elf-estime? > Len Hi Len, I didn't say I wanted to " get rid of(f) " these things or any things, whethr annoying or not. Just to merely surrender into what is AS what is which isn't an " intentional act " but the automatic result of the clarity of the realization that what is is what is and there ain't nuttin' else and no getting out of it, going beyond it, changing it, improving it, etc. The rest takes care of itself all by itself, just as turbulent water settles when left alone. In regards to " pleasure " , it's one's attachment to pleasure and the driven desire to have it be repeated, possesed, control, engineered, exploited, etc that is the cause of and *is* the pain and suffering. If the desire to avoid/pursue is simply and only felt without motive, it dissipates on it's own, which is surrender in my parlance, leaving in its wake the a sense of infinite presence (for lack of better words). In regards to " (s)elf-est(e)ime " , it's totally uncessary, a mental concoction or fabrication similar to a mirage in the desert taken to be " real " or even necessary. When seen as such, it loses its distracting/disturbing influence. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2006 Report Share Posted April 30, 2006 In a message dated 4/29/2006 8:52:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 14:10:12 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Surrender - a view of Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > < Message: 8 > > < Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:45:35 -0000 > > < " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > < Re: Surrender - a view of > > > > < Dear amateur, > > > > < And what for do you want to surrender ? Is you wife arround ? > > > > < Werner > > > > Perhaps such things as " unlove, resentment, anger, condescenscion, > > hatred, prejudice, indifference, smugness, malicious intent, > etc. " > > > Only annoying things you want to get rid off? ;-) > What about pleasure and elf-estime? > > Len Interesting typo: elf-esteem :-) Len Yeah, the first time I saw that the thought occurred to ask you if you knew something about Werner's genetic background that we didn't, but I thought better of it...........Oops! P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2006 Report Share Posted April 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/29/2006 1:34:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:33:46 -0700 > " Adamson " <adamson > Surrender - a view of > > > > > > < And what for do you want to surrender ? Is you wife arround ? > > > > < Werner > > > > Perhaps such things as " unlove, resentment, anger, condescenscion, > > hatred, prejudice, indifference, smugness, malicious intent, > > etc. " > > > > Only annoying things you want to get rid off? ;-) > > What about pleasure and elf-estime? > > > Len > > Hi Len, > > I didn't say I wanted to " get rid of(f) " these things or any things, > whethr annoying or not. Just to merely surrender into what is AS what > is which isn't an " intentional act " but the automatic result of the > clarity of the realization that what is is what is and there ain't > nuttin' else and no getting out of it, going beyond it, changing it, > improving it, etc. The rest takes care of itself all by itself, just as > turbulent water settles when left alone. > > In regards to " pleasure " , it's one's attachment to pleasure and the > driven desire to have it be repeated, possesed, control, engineered, > exploited, etc that is the cause of and *is* the pain and suffering. If > the desire to avoid/pursue is simply and only felt without motive, it > dissipates on it's own, which is surrender in my parlance, leaving in > its wake the a sense of infinite presence (for lack of better words). > In regards to " (s)elf-est(e)ime " , it's totally uncessary, a mental > concoction or fabrication similar to a mirage in the desert taken to be > " real " or even necessary. When seen as such, it loses its > distracting/disturbing influence. > > Michael > > > > But don't you hafta qualify that realization that what is, is, and it can't > be changed? I mean, if you're sitting on a knitting needle, you don't just say > it can't be changed and sit there. So, are there some things that can be > changed and others not? > > P Attempting to change the nature of experience is one thing. Attempting to change a flat tire another. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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