Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 I have tried looking for words to describe it; I have not found any! I have tried to ask if is Sat-Chit- Ananda... - Sat [Existence, I AM] Do I exist? I find that it is not accurate to either describe it in affirmative or negative. I find that neither neither existence, nor non-existence make sense here! - Chit [Consciousness] Am I Conscious? Again, I find both positive and negative answers incomplete and thus wrong. - Ananda [bliss] Am I Bliss? Same answer here. I find no such distinction. It is strange kind of 'sameness', stillness that seem to have no correspondence in the relative world that " I " live in... It seems as I am just an Absolutely Silent, 'no mind' part of THAT in which all the 'movement' takes place... Yet, I don't feel any movement... any change... as if Time is Frozen! or, as if... someone has just opened... my eyes, my ears, my nose, all of my body... but, has stopped my Mind! ... Just like the images pass through a still transparent medium [i know, how can you see something in that which is 'transparent'...] Just like clouds pass through the 'non existing' Sky... Just like the stars, planets, galaxies pass through the 'non existing', 'not bothering', STILL Space... all seem to just pass through me! [or, maybe, as the moving images JUST 'pass' through the *dead* lens of a Camcorder... Perception is the lens's nature but, the lens has absolutely No idea what is that it is Seeing!] as if my body has 'woke up' and... I have died! or, as if ONLY my *body* woke up from the last night Sleep... and, now the World feels ever... 'not there'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 [...] > > as if my body has 'woke up' and... *I* > has died! > > or, as if ONLY my *body* woke up from > the last night Sleep but the automatic > 'mind' kept sleeping... > > and, now the World feels ever... 'not there'... > I think it is accurate to say that HERE... there are almost no automatic thoughts... and, it seems there is just an Intensely Aware Watcher who makes 'conscious' decision as to when start thinking! Yet, the impacts of this 'no unconscious background thinking' are somewhat Dramatic and even Unexpected! Not only does it results in the absence of concern, goal, plan, desire, preference... In the absence of automatic repetitive thoughts... 'memory usage pattern' too seems to go through a dramatic change... It translates into events like: - Visiting a colleague's cube and then trying to remember what his name is - Visiting manager and thinking about what I should say - Daughter goes to get candies from the vending machine and two minutes later I wonder where has she gone. - Putting the key and wallet safely in drawer and trying to remember where it is 10 minutes later***. --- ***Ultimately... all of these do get remembered. But, now there is a considerable 'lag' that is easily observable. Whereas, in normal [unconscious automatic continuous *background* thinking] mode, all these 'forgetting' kind of events seem to 'not occur' i.e. *remembering* seems to be 'automatic' and take almost 'no time'! Based on this experience, it is perhaps, correct to think that [as scientists have discovered] REM Dreams are extremely Important for 'memory formation'; day time unconscious *background* thinking too might play a Very Big Role in all memories. In fact, background thinking might be simply brain trying to use otherwise 'unused' cycles to *make*, *repair* and *strengthen* memories as well as to continually freshen and *retrieve* them anticipating an immediate future need. The *repeating* of thoughts simply might be the brain's way of doing the 'memory maintenance'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > > > > as if my body has 'woke up' and... *I* > > has died! > > > > or, as if ONLY my *body* woke up from > > the last night Sleep but the automatic > > 'mind' kept sleeping... > > > > and, now the World feels ever... 'not there'... > > > > > > I think it is accurate to say that > HERE... there are almost no automatic > thoughts... > > and, it seems there is just an > Intensely Aware Watcher who makes > 'conscious' decision as to when start > thinking! Arvind, i wonder how can you seriously write such a thing! A Watcher does not make any decision, it wouldn't be there to see the decision if this could happen. While being a watcher it ONLY SEES the decision happening, it does NOT make it. If you want to go on with this path you must be clear about this. > > Yet, the impacts of this 'no > unconscious background thinking' are > somewhat Dramatic and even Unexpected! > > Not only does it results in the > absence of concern, goal, plan, desire, > preference... > > In the absence of automatic repetitive > thoughts... 'memory usage pattern' too > seems to go through a dramatic change... > > It translates into events like: > > - Visiting a colleague's cube and > then trying to remember what his name is > > - Visiting manager and thinking > about what I should say > > - Daughter goes to get candies from > the vending machine and two minutes > later I wonder where has she gone. > > - Putting the key and wallet safely > in drawer and trying to remember where > it is 10 minutes later***. > > > --- > > > ***Ultimately... all of these do get > remembered. But, now there is a > considerable 'lag' that is easily > observable. Whereas, in normal > [unconscious automatic continuous > *background* thinking] mode, all these > 'forgetting' kind of events seem to > 'not occur' i.e. *remembering* seems to > be 'automatic' and take almost 'no time'! > > Based on this experience, it is > perhaps, correct to think that [as > scientists have discovered] REM Dreams > are extremely Important for 'memory > formation'; day time unconscious > *background* thinking too might play a > Very Big Role in all memories. > > In fact, > background thinking might be simply > brain trying to use otherwise 'unused' > cycles to *make*, *repair* and > *strengthen* memories as well as to > continually freshen and *retrieve* them > anticipating an immediate future need. > > The *repeating* of thoughts simply > might be the brain's way of doing the > 'memory maintenance'! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 > [...] > > > > > as if my body has 'woke up' and... *I* > > has died! > > > > or, as if ONLY my *body* woke up from > > the last night Sleep but the automatic > > 'mind' kept sleeping... > > > > and, now the World feels ever... 'not there'... > > > > > > I think it is accurate to say that > HERE... there are almost no automatic > thoughts... > > and, it seems there is just an > Intensely Aware Watcher... Among the best and Most Direct pointers that I have read on this are from Papaji: - just for a fraction of second, don't touch the 'sense of I'... and see if you are not in deep sleep Right Now! another excellent pointer that I have read from him is: - just for a fraction of second, don't make any effort... and don't stir any thought... and see if you are not in deep sleep Right Now! As many teachers [including Ramana, Tolle] have pointed out, the unconscious mind [unconscious thinking] being a very deep-seated, long-time habit has a tendency to lurk around, lie in the background and make attempts to come back... Ramana says as long as there is any Vassana... the 'individual' mind will continue to have this tendency to 'resume' control! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 > > [...] > > > > > > > > as if my body has 'woke up' and... *I* > > > has died! > > > > > > or, as if ONLY my *body* woke up from > > > the last night Sleep but the automatic > > > 'mind' kept sleeping... > > > > > > and, now the World feels ever... 'not there'... > > > > > > > > > > > I think it is accurate to say that > > HERE... there are almost no automatic > > thoughts... > > > > and, it seems there is just an > > Intensely Aware Watcher... > > > Among the best and Most Direct pointers > that I have read on this are from Papaji: > > - just for a fraction of second, > don't touch the 'sense of I'... and see > if you are not in deep sleep Right Now! > > another excellent pointer that I have > read from him is: > > - just for a fraction of second, > don't make any effort... and don't stir > any thought... and see if you are not > in deep sleep Right Now! > > > As many teachers [including Ramana, > Tolle] have pointed out, the > unconscious mind [unconscious thinking] > being a very deep-seated, long-time > habit has a tendency to lurk around, > lie in the background and make attempts > to come back... > > Ramana says as long as there is any > Vassana... the 'individual' mind will > continue to have this tendency to > 'resume' control! > Tolle in his book sites examples of highly spiritual people forgetting all about " I am not the body " , " I am formless Self " , " I am immortal Soul " , " I am unborn Buddha Mind " and start acting in an unconscious and Insane way the moment they hear a bad news from their Real Estate Agent or the Stock Broker. Tolle offers deep insecurity/attachment about money as the reason for this 'unconscious' behavior! Money acts like a 'button' for them! For many others, sex, power, name, respect, job, spouse, children or... just 'entertainment' works like a similar 'trigger' that pulls them back towards the OLD 'unconscious' identified 'ego centric' behavior. Ramana refers to these tendencies as Vassana and asserts that their elimination is needed for Jnana [True Knowledge] to transform all of life and for Peace to become unbroken! He talks about continued vigilance and Practice until this is achieved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 > > Among the best and Most Direct pointers > > that I have read on 'non dual' state > > are from Papaji: > > > > - just for a fraction of second, > > don't touch the 'sense of I'... and see > > if you are not in deep sleep Right Now! > > > > another excellent pointer that I have > > read from him is: > > > > - just for a fraction of second, > > don't make any effort... and don't stir > > any thought... and see if you are not > > in deep sleep Right Now! > > .... Living without the sense of individual I [iOW... continuous thinking, as this is the only thing that creates a seemingly solid 'sense of I'] is somewhat a Very Radical and Dramatic experience! To ego [which still operates initially]... it is even Frightening! And, it wouldn't be unexpected for some individuals to taste this 'ego less' state yet, revert back to the Prior 'continuous thinking' mode out of fear! This fear occurs only after the mind has already risen! This fear rises the mind advocating... its 'need' to 'be there' for 'protection' .... because, 'without it'... ANYTHING can Happen! 'Without it'... there is no [sense of] Security... 'Without it'... there is no [sense of] Continuity... 'Without it'... there is no [sense of] " life " ... 'Without it'... there is no [sense of] " purpose " ... The mind comes, and, asks... without " me " ... for " whom " is this 'living'... How this [individual] mind rises in the first place is still somewhat a Mystery... One possible explanation is that just like the heart beat, breathing... it too is the 'pulse of Life'... the 'Vibration of Consciousness'... It is Only the 'Vibration of Life' [Heart Beat] that makes each human an individual Living being... It is only the 'Vibration Of Consciousness' [mind] that makes each human an individual mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Without 'individual I' [continuous thinking] everything starts feeling Very Different... One way to look at it is... that it starts looking ever new and Fresh and a journey of continuous wonderment, amazement and unknowingness starts... Another way to look at it is that... the 'sense of continuity', 'sense of living'... 'sense of security' is gone! And, remember that the 'mind' only feels secure with what is OLD, what it " feels " is ...already 'known'! 'Living in mind'... even new appears like " old " ... Without mind... there is no " old " or 'already known'! The whole universe comes *alive* in a Strange way! The feeling becomes so radical that someone who hasn't experienced it might even find it laughable... - even 'walking' feels like a Miraculous, Adventurous and Wondrous Process... It feels as if one has never walked before! - eating feels like... 'emptiness eating'... [it feels very strange... maybe, I will find a way to somewhat explain it] When a thought comes about *death*... it results in a *natural* question of: - *who* is living now? and, this results in no answer! The fear of death seems 'non existent' as the previous [false] 'sense of life' is found missing... both death and life seem like a strange concept not applying to....... [ NNB ] > > > > Among the best and Most Direct pointers > > > that I have read on 'non dual' state > > > are from Papaji: > > > > > > - just for a fraction of second, > > > don't touch the 'sense of I'... and see > > > if you are not in deep sleep Right Now! > > > > > > another excellent pointer that I have > > > read from him is: > > > > > > - just for a fraction of second, > > > don't make any effort... and don't stir > > > any thought... and see if you are not > > > in deep sleep Right Now! > > > > > ... > > Living without the sense of individual > I [iOW... continuous thinking, as this > is the only thing that creates a seemingly solid > 'sense of I'] is somewhat a Very Radical and > Dramatic experience! > > To ego [which still operates > initially]... it is even Frightening! > And, it wouldn't be unexpected for some > individuals to taste this 'ego less' > state yet, revert back to the Prior > 'continuous thinking' mode out of fear! > > This fear occurs only after the mind > has already risen! > > This fear rises the mind advocating... > its 'need' to 'be there' for 'protection' > ... because, > > 'without it'... ANYTHING can Happen! > > > 'Without it'... there is no [sense of] > Security... > > 'Without it'... there is no [sense of] > Continuity... > > 'Without it'... there is no [sense of] > " life " ... > > 'Without it'... there is no [sense of] > " purpose " ... > > > The mind comes, and, asks... without > " me " ... for " whom " is this 'living'... > > > How this [individual] mind rises in > the first place is still somewhat a Mystery... > > One possible explanation is that just > like the heart beat, breathing... it > too is the 'pulse of Life'... the > 'Vibration of Consciousness'... > > It is Only the 'Vibration of Life' > [Heart Beat] that makes each human an > individual Living being... > > It is only the 'Vibration Of > Consciousness' [mind] that makes each > human an individual mind... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Arvind " <adithya_comming wrote: > Living without the sense of individual > I [iOW... continuous thinking, as this > is the only thing that creates a seemingly solid > 'sense of I'] is somewhat a Very Radical and > Dramatic experience! > > To ego [which still operates > initially]... it is even Frightening! Nonsense. When ego operates the sense of I is there. All drama and fear are a product of ego imagination about how it would be if it wasn´t there. This imagination has obviously nothing to do with the absence of I, but everything to do with the fearful movement of ego imagining its own death, which is an absurd, useless, ego strenghtening activity. Len > And, it wouldn't be unexpected for some > individuals to taste this 'ego less' > state yet, revert back to the Prior > 'continuous thinking' mode out of fear! > > This fear occurs only after the mind > has already risen! > > This fear rises the mind advocating... > its 'need' to 'be there' for 'protection' > ... because, > > 'without it'... ANYTHING can Happen! > > > 'Without it'... there is no [sense of] > Security... > > 'Without it'... there is no [sense of] > Continuity... > > 'Without it'... there is no [sense of] > " life " ... > > 'Without it'... there is no [sense of] > " purpose " ... > > > The mind comes, and, asks... without > " me " ... for " whom " is this 'living'... > > > How this [individual] mind rises in > the first place is still somewhat a Mystery... > > One possible explanation is that just > like the heart beat, breathing... it > too is the 'pulse of Life'... the > 'Vibration of Consciousness'... > > It is Only the 'Vibration of Life' > [Heart Beat] that makes each human an > individual Living being... > > It is only the 'Vibration Of > Consciousness' [mind] that makes each > human an individual mind... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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