Guest guest Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > purpose of the list. > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > eternal truth, it > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > materiel but you are what > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > which you become one > is what is important. Love with that sense of > presence, write and walk > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > need of effort. > Patricia > > > Truth is not what is understood, > but what is lived. > Bill > > > > > _________________________ Faites de votre page d'accueil sur le web pour retrouver directement vos services préférés : vérifiez vos nouveaux mails, lancez vos recherches et suivez l'actualité en temps réel. Rendez-vous sur http://fr./set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > purpose of the list. > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > eternal truth, it > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > materiel but you are what > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > which you become one > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > presence, write and walk > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > need of effort. > > Patricia > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > but what is lived. > > Bill > > .....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the appearing world...until death Marc Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " (and now) > > > > > > ____________________ _____ > Faites de votre page d'accueil sur le web pour retrouver directement vos services préférés : vérifiez vos nouveaux mails, lancez vos recherches et suivez l'actualité en temps réel. > Rendez-vous sur http://fr./set > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > purpose of the list. > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > eternal truth, it > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > materiel but you are what > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > which you become one > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > presence, write and walk > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > need of effort. > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > but what is lived. > > > Bill > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > appearing world...until death > > Marc > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " (and > now) > Truth is not " something " Truth is eternal destruction the devastation of what was again and again and again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > which you become one > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > need of effort. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > but what is lived. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > > appearing world...until death > > > > Marc > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " (and > > now) > > > > Truth is not " something " > > Truth is eternal destruction > > the devastation of what was > > again and again and again yes... it take no effort for Truth to " be " this " eternal destruction " .... just like it take no effort for an ego-mind *....to ignore this Truth.... Marc * even during deep sleep next night.... and also....after death.....and maybe, who knows....during (a) next life-time(s)...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 From the point of view of thought, truth is the negation of falsehood, i.e. eliminate the false and the real remains. Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > which you become one > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > need of effort. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > but what is lived. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > > appearing world...until death > > > > Marc > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " (and > > now) > > > > Truth is not " something " > > Truth is eternal destruction > > the devastation of what was > > again and again and again > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > > which you become one > > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > > need of effort. > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > > but what is lived. > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > > > appearing world...until death > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " > (and > > > now) > > > > > > > Truth is not " something " > > > > Truth is eternal destruction > > > > the devastation of what was > > > > again and again and again > > > yes... > > it take no effort for Truth to " be " this " eternal destruction " .... > > just like it take no effort for an ego-mind *....to ignore this > Truth.... love it > Marc > > > * even during deep sleep next night.... > > and also....after death.....and maybe, who knows....during (a) next > life-time(s)...... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > --- fewtch <fewtch a écrit : > > > > From the point of view of thought, truth is the > negation of > falsehood, i.e. eliminate the false and the real > remains. > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " > <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , > " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor > Patricia <gdtige@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers > defeat the > > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is > never the > > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence > with > > > > > which you become one > > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, > no > > > > > need of effort. > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > > but what is lived. > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being > attached to the > > > appearing world...until death > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth > remain " here " > (and > > > now) > > > > > > > Truth is not " something " > > > > Truth is eternal destruction > > > > the devastation of what was > > > > again and again and again > .............................. > > Yeah? > also, it is eternal creation, > again and again and again! > > Patricia > > oh yeah... how did I miss that? I think I was just about to write that but then... wham! it got destructed! eternal creation again and again and again... always wiping the slate clean before a new wave comes in but maybe am just guessing as how could I know when just now a tsunami crashing in Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Because there is suffering, Even in a dream, And countless injustice... And no power of mine to ever defeat it.. And yet a movement toward all of that, A sensitivity. How can I say, I am nothing, It is all a dream... I know I can make space for true corrective power, Healing substance that I do not generate myself, Yet this is a choice : To make room.. And this is recognition : There is a tangible power. And whether I am aware of this Presence or not, as long as I invite it, It acts. How can one say : I am nothing? Patricia _________________________ Faites de votre page d'accueil sur le web pour retrouver directement vos services préférés : vérifiez vos nouveaux mails, lancez vos recherches et suivez l'actualité en temps réel. Rendez-vous sur http://fr./set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 --- billrishel <illusyn a écrit : Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > --- fewtch <fewtch a écrit : > > > > From the point of view of thought, truth is the > negation of > falsehood, i.e. eliminate the false and the real > remains. > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " > <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , > " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor > Patricia <gdtige@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers > defeat the > > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is > never the > > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence > with > > > > > which you become one > > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, > no > > > > > need of effort. > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > > but what is lived. > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being > attached to the > > > appearing world...until death > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth > remain " here " > (and > > > now) > > > > > > > Truth is not " something " > > > > Truth is eternal destruction > > > > the devastation of what was > > > > again and again and again > .............................. > > Yeah? > also, it is eternal creation, > again and again and again! > > Patricia > > oh yeah... how did I miss that? I think I was just about to write that but then... wham! it got destructed! eternal creation again and again and again... always wiping the slate clean before a new wave comes in but maybe am just guessing as how could I know when just now a tsunami crashing in Bill do you hang on or do you go with the tsunami? Patricia ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > --- billrishel <illusyn a écrit : > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > --- fewtch <fewtch@> a écrit : > > > > > > > > From the point of view of thought, truth is the > > negation of > > falsehood, i.e. eliminate the false and the real > > remains. > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " > > <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor > > Patricia <gdtige@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers > > defeat the > > > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is > > never the > > > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not > that > > > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of > presence > > with > > > > > > which you become one > > > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense > of > > > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > > > And that sense of presence is always > there, > > no > > > > > > need of effort. > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > > > but what is lived. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being > > attached to the > > > > appearing world...until death > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth > > remain " here " > > (and > > > > now) > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not " something " > > > > > > Truth is eternal destruction > > > > > > the devastation of what was > > > > > > again and again and again > > .............................. > > > > Yeah? > > also, it is eternal creation, > > again and again and again! > > > > Patricia > > > > > oh yeah... > how did I miss that? > > I think I was just about to write that > but then... > wham! it got destructed! > > eternal creation > again and again and again... > > always wiping the slate clean > before a new wave comes in > > but maybe am just guessing > as how could I know when > just now a tsunami crashing in > > > Bill > > do you hang on or do you go with the tsunami? > > Patricia > hang on? no... and hardly an option little bits of what may have have been self flying around like debris... and " going with " not an option either this tsunami seems to have my soul already so way beyond acquiesence here whatever this is which at times seems like tsunami at times like electricity striking through at times like coils of liquid light swirling... it is underway and no sense to be made of it nothing to think about in this breathless intensity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > which you become one > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > need of effort. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > but what is lived. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > > appearing world...until death > > > > Marc > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " (and > > now) > > > > Truth is not " something " > > Truth is eternal destruction > > the devastation of what was > > again and again and again So what about devastating your big container with cheap zealotry bull, from which you keep pouring again and again and again? What would Bill be without it? Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 --- billrishel <illusyn a écrit : > Nisargadatta , OConnor > Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > > > > --- billrishel <illusyn a écrit : > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor > Patricia > > <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- fewtch <fewtch@> a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > From the point of view of thought, truth is the > > > negation of > > > falsehood, i.e. eliminate the false and the real > > > remains. > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " billrishel " > > > <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > > " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor > > > Patricia <gdtige@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers > > > defeat the > > > > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood > is > > > never the > > > > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not > > that > > > > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of > > presence > > > with > > > > > > > which you become one > > > > > > > is what is important. Love with that > sense > > of > > > > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > > > > And that sense of presence is always > > there, > > > no > > > > > > > need of effort. > > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > > > > but what is lived. > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in > being > > > attached to the > > > > > appearing world...until death > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but > Truth > > > remain " here " > > > (and > > > > > now) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not " something " > > > > > > > > Truth is eternal destruction > > > > > > > > the devastation of what was > > > > > > > > again and again and again > > > .............................. > > > > > > Yeah? > > > also, it is eternal creation, > > > again and again and again! > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > oh yeah... > > how did I miss that? > > > > I think I was just about to write that > > but then... > > wham! it got destructed! > > > > eternal creation > > again and again and again... > > > > always wiping the slate clean > > before a new wave comes in > > > > but maybe am just guessing > > as how could I know when > > just now a tsunami crashing in > > > > > > Bill > > > > do you hang on or do you go with the tsunami? > > > > Patricia > > > > hang on? > > no... > and hardly an option > > little bits of what may have > have been self flying around > like debris... > > and " going with " not an option > either > > this tsunami seems to have my soul already > so way beyond acquiesence here > > whatever this is > which at times seems like tsunami > at times like electricity striking through > at times like coils of liquid light swirling... > it is underway > and no sense to be made of it > > nothing to think about > in this breathless intensity ........................................................ Then Bill, seaze the moment! Make that salade dressing without the blender. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 In a message dated 5/3/2006 11:10:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: " billrishel " illusyn Wed May 3, 2006 5:51am(PDT) Re: truth is what is lived Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > purpose of the list. > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > eternal truth, it > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > materiel but you are what > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > which you become one > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > presence, write and walk > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > need of effort. > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > but what is lived. > > > Bill > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > appearing world...until death > > Marc > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " (and > now) > Truth is not " something " Truth is eternal destruction the devastation of what was again and again and again Truth is eternal destruction? In who's nightmare? Destruction of what? Illusion? Illusion never existed to begin with. Truth doesn't destroy anything, it doesn't do anything, it doesn't ever change, it just IS. It can be noticed, or not. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > --- fewtch <fewtch a écrit : > > > > From the point of view of thought, truth is the > negation of > falsehood, i.e. eliminate the false and the real > remains. > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " > <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , > " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor > Patricia <gdtige@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers > defeat the > > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is > never the > > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence > with > > > > > which you become one > > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, > no > > > > > need of effort. > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > > but what is lived. > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being > attached to the > > > appearing world...until death > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth > remain " here " > (and > > > now) > > > > > > > Truth is not " something " > > > > Truth is eternal destruction > > > > the devastation of what was > > > > again and again and again > .............................. > > Yeah? > also, it is eternal creation, > again and again and again! > > Patricia > > > > Crearuction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 In a message dated 5/3/2006 3:37:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: " OConnor Patricia " gdtige Wed May 3, 2006 2:53pm(PDT) Re: truth is what is lived --- fewtch <fewtch a écrit : From the point of view of thought, truth is the negation of falsehood, i.e. eliminate the false and the real remains. Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > which you become one > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > need of effort. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > but what is lived. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > > appearing world...until death > > > > Marc > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " (and > > now) > > > > Truth is not " something " > > Truth is eternal destruction > > the devastation of what was > > again and again and again ............................... Yeah? also, it is eternal creation, again and again and again! Patricia Truth isn't doing anything. It's only your mind that moves. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 In a message dated 5/3/2006 8:10:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: " OConnor Patricia " gdtige Wed May 3, 2006 4:05pm(PDT) Re: truth is what is lived Because there is suffering, Even in a dream, And countless injustice... And no power of mine to ever defeat it.. And yet a movement toward all of that, A sensitivity. How can I say, I am nothing, It is all a dream... I know I can make space for true corrective power, Healing substance that I do not generate myself, Yet this is a choice : To make room.. And this is recognition : There is a tangible power. And whether I am aware of this Presence or not, as long as I invite it, It acts. How can one say : I am nothing? Patricia The true power has no need to correct. Reality knows nothing of suffering, injustice. These are things you place between yourself and Reality. The healing is your healing, which occurs when you see that there is no need for healing. When have you ever seen presence move to correct anything? That's only your dream. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 In a message dated 5/3/2006 8:10:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: " lissbon2002 " lissbon2002 Wed May 3, 2006 4:29pm(PDT) Re: truth is what is lived Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > which you become one > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > need of effort. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > but what is lived. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > > appearing world...until death > > > > Marc > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " (and > > now) > > > > Truth is not " something " > > Truth is eternal destruction > > the devastation of what was > > again and again and again So what about devastating your big container with cheap zealotry bull, from which you keep pouring again and again and again? What would Bill be without it? Len This brings to mind an interesting experience I'm having on another forum now. This forum has a victim energy and folks tend to feel threatened and start to leave. Three times now, I've purposely poked the ego to get the one leaving to reengage in order to defend himself. When he comes back and attacks, I roll over and admit to all the accusations made in order to remove the defensive focus. At that point, conversation begins again when the individual feels he has made his point and won. The interesting part is the process of emptying myself of all desire for defense in the face of even the most absurd accusations, which actually brings a peace, apparently because literally nothing remains of ego image left that might be defended, and it's of no importance at all. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/3/2006 11:10:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " billrishel " illusyn > Wed May 3, 2006 5:51am(PDT) > Re: truth is what is lived > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > which you become one > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > need of effort. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > but what is lived. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > > appearing world...until death > > > > Marc > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " (and > > now) > > > > Truth is not " something " > > Truth is eternal destruction > > the devastation of what was > > again and again and again > > > > > Truth is eternal destruction? In who's nightmare? Destruction of what? > Illusion? Illusion never existed to begin with. Truth doesn't destroy anything, it > doesn't do anything, it doesn't ever change, it just IS. It can be noticed, > or not. > > Phil Noticing it destroys illusions though. Bill is trying to destroy his in his imagination, to avoid the actual destruction ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 5/3/2006 11:10:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " billrishel " illusyn@ > > Wed May 3, 2006 5:51am(PDT) > > Re: truth is what is lived > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > > which you become one > > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > > need of effort. > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > > but what is lived. > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > > > appearing world...until death > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " > (and > > > now) > > > > > > > Truth is not " something " > > > > Truth is eternal destruction > > > > the devastation of what was > > > > again and again and again > > > > > > > > > > Truth is eternal destruction? In who's nightmare? Destruction of > what? > > Illusion? Illusion never existed to begin with. Truth doesn't > destroy anything, it > > doesn't do anything, it doesn't ever change, it just IS. It can be > noticed, > > or not. > > > > Phil > > > > Noticing it destroys illusions though. > Bill is trying to destroy his in his imagination, to avoid the > actual destruction ;-) > > Len your whole of attitude......reminds me someone who is sitting in a prison........seeing only walls around.......living and creating your own " truth " ........ i hope it's not the case..... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/3/2006 8:10:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " lissbon2002 " lissbon2002 > Wed May 3, 2006 4:29pm(PDT) > Re: truth is what is lived > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > > which you become one > > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > > need of effort. > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > > but what is lived. > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > > > appearing world...until death > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " > (and > > > now) > > > > > > > Truth is not " something " > > > > Truth is eternal destruction > > > > the devastation of what was > > > > again and again and again > > > > So what about devastating your big container with cheap zealotry > bull, from which you keep pouring again and again and again? > What would Bill be without it? > > Len > > > > This brings to mind an interesting experience I'm having on another forum > now. This forum has a victim energy and folks tend to feel threatened and start > to leave. Three times now, I've purposely poked the ego to get the one > leaving to reengage in order to defend himself. When he comes back and attacks, I > roll over and admit to all the accusations made in order to remove the > defensive focus. At that point, conversation begins again when the individual feels > he has made his point and won. But does this conversation have a meaning? ;-) > The interesting part is the process of emptying myself of all desire for > defense in the face of even the most absurd accusations, which actually brings a > peace, apparently because literally nothing remains of ego image left that > might be defended, and it's of no importance at all. > > Phil Sounds like fun :-) What forum is that, if I´m allowed to have a look? Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 5/3/2006 8:10:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " lissbon2002 " lissbon2002@ > > Wed May 3, 2006 4:29pm(PDT) > > Re: truth is what is lived > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > <gdtige@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > > > which you become one > > > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > > > need of effort. > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > > > but what is lived. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to > the > > > > appearing world...until death > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth > remain " here " > > (and > > > > now) > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not " something " > > > > > > Truth is eternal destruction > > > > > > the devastation of what was > > > > > > again and again and again > > > > > > > > So what about devastating your big container with cheap zealotry > > bull, from which you keep pouring again and again and again? > > What would Bill be without it? > > > > Len > > > > > > > > This brings to mind an interesting experience I'm having on > another forum > > now. This forum has a victim energy and folks tend to feel > threatened and start > > to leave. Three times now, I've purposely poked the ego to get the > one > > leaving to reengage in order to defend himself. When he comes > back and attacks, I > > roll over and admit to all the accusations made in order to > remove the > > defensive focus. At that point, conversation begins again when > the individual feels > > he has made his point and won. > > > > But does this conversation have a meaning? ;-) > > > > > The interesting part is the process of emptying myself of all > desire for > > defense in the face of even the most absurd accusations, which > actually brings a > > peace, apparently because literally nothing remains of ego image > left that > > might be defended, and it's of no importance at all. > > > > Phil > > > > Sounds like fun :-) > What forum is that, if I´m allowed to have a look? > > Len I agree, this sounds like fun. I've made quite a study recently in group dynamics and singular behaviour myself, and it is a hoot! .......bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/3/2006 11:10:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > " billrishel " illusyn@ > > > Wed May 3, 2006 5:51am(PDT) > > > Re: truth is what is lived > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia > <gdtige@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > > > which you become one > > > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > > > need of effort. > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > > > but what is lived. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to > the > > > > appearing world...until death > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " > > (and > > > > now) > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not " something " > > > > > > Truth is eternal destruction > > > > > > the devastation of what was > > > > > > again and again and again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is eternal destruction? In who's nightmare? Destruction of > > what? > > > Illusion? Illusion never existed to begin with. Truth doesn't > > destroy anything, it > > > doesn't do anything, it doesn't ever change, it just IS. It can > be > > noticed, > > > or not. > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > Noticing it destroys illusions though. > > Bill is trying to destroy his in his imagination, to avoid the > > actual destruction ;-) > > > > Len > > > your whole of attitude......reminds me someone who is sitting in a > prison........seeing only walls around.......living and creating your > own " truth " ........ > > i hope it's not the case..... > > Marc First you create an image and then you hope it´s not the case. Yet another way of keeping oneself busy :-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 In a message dated 5/4/2006 8:37:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: " lissbon2002 " lissbon2002 Thu May 4, 2006 6:01am(PDT) Re: truth is what is lived Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/3/2006 11:10:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " billrishel " illusyn > Wed May 3, 2006 5:51am(PDT) > Re: truth is what is lived > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > which you become one > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > need of effort. > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > but what is lived. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > > appearing world...until death > > > > Marc > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " (and > > now) > > > > Truth is not " something " > > Truth is eternal destruction > > the devastation of what was > > again and again and again > > > > > Truth is eternal destruction? In who's nightmare? Destruction of what? > Illusion? Illusion never existed to begin with. Truth doesn't destroy anything, it > doesn't do anything, it doesn't ever change, it just IS. It can be noticed, > or not. > > Phil Noticing it destroys illusions though. Bill is trying to destroy his in his imagination, to avoid the actual destruction ;-) Len I differentiate between absolute and relative truth. Noticing self deception destroys it. Noticing illusion dismantles it. (I hope Noticing Truth causes illusion to be noticed for the illusion it is. The illusion remains. I don't really have a problem with calling Truth creation and destruction but it doesn't seem to do justice to Truth, which is infinitely more than that. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 In a message dated 5/4/2006 8:37:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: " dennis_travis33 " dennis_travis33 Thu May 4, 2006 6:06am(PDT) Re: truth is what is lived Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 5/3/2006 11:10:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " billrishel " illusyn@ > > Wed May 3, 2006 5:51am(PDT) > > Re: truth is what is lived > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > > which you become one > > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > > need of effort. > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > > but what is lived. > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > > > appearing world...until death > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " > (and > > > now) > > > > > > > Truth is not " something " > > > > Truth is eternal destruction > > > > the devastation of what was > > > > again and again and again > > > > > > > > > > Truth is eternal destruction? In who's nightmare? Destruction of > what? > > Illusion? Illusion never existed to begin with. Truth doesn't > destroy anything, it > > doesn't do anything, it doesn't ever change, it just IS. It can be > noticed, > > or not. > > > > Phil > > > > Noticing it destroys illusions though. > Bill is trying to destroy his in his imagination, to avoid the > actual destruction ;-) > > Len your whole of attitude......reminds me someone who is sitting in a prison........seeing only walls around.......living and creating your own " truth " ........ i hope it's not the case..... Marc If you are reminded of such things, it may be wise to pay close attention to such thoughts. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 In a message dated 5/4/2006 9:44:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: " lissbon2002 " lissbon2002 Thu May 4, 2006 9:31am(PDT) Re: truth is what is lived Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/3/2006 8:10:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " lissbon2002 " lissbon2002 > Wed May 3, 2006 4:29pm(PDT) > Re: truth is what is lived > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many questions or too many answers defeat the > > > > > purpose of the list. > > > > > Whatever can be perceived or understood is never the > > > > > eternal truth, it > > > > > is the materiel, mind stuff. You are not that > > > > > materiel but you are what > > > > > understand that materiel.The sense of presence with > > > > > which you become one > > > > > is what is important. Love with that sense of > > > > > presence, write and walk > > > > > and sleep with that sense of presence. > > > > > > And that sense of presence is always there, no > > > > > need of effort. > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is not what is understood, > > > > > but what is lived. > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....impossible to survive the Truth....in being attached to the > > > appearing world...until death > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: world(s) are coming and going......but Truth remain " here " > (and > > > now) > > > > > > > Truth is not " something " > > > > Truth is eternal destruction > > > > the devastation of what was > > > > again and again and again > > > > So what about devastating your big container with cheap zealotry > bull, from which you keep pouring again and again and again? > What would Bill be without it? > > Len > > > > This brings to mind an interesting experience I'm having on another forum > now. This forum has a victim energy and folks tend to feel threatened and start > to leave. Three times now, I've purposely poked the ego to get the one > leaving to reengage in order to defend himself. When he comes back and attacks, I > roll over and admit to all the accusations made in order to remove the > defensive focus. At that point, conversation begins again when the individual feels > he has made his point and won. But does this conversation have a meaning? ;-) > The interesting part is the process of emptying myself of all desire for > defense in the face of even the most absurd accusations, which actually brings a > peace, apparently because literally nothing remains of ego image left that > might be defended, and it's of no importance at all. > > Phil Sounds like fun :-) What forum is that, if I´m allowed to have a look? Len It sounds like to fun to watch me get crucified? Hehe. Okay, yeah, I can see that. I'll send ya the link privately. First ego explosion happened a month or so ago, second about 2 weeks ago, and I just poked at the latest guy who left, but he hasn't returned yet. It's definitely not high level spiritual discussion going on. I was asked to drop by cause the forum had died. It's pretty clear why. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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