Guest guest Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Oh I know......it seems like there is a causal relationship between what you believe are your volitional actions and this self thing becoming 'enlightened'. You listen with rapt attention to everything every self proclainmed sage did just before they popped into the emptiness. Wayne Liquorman had two lovers...one left.....he broke down and became enlightened. So you consider going out and getting another lover. Adya heard a bird song....and ask: " Who is hearing this " ...and BAM!.....there he wasn't. And all of a sudden you find your self watching the birds....wondering.... The Buddha plunked himself down under a tree and you start asking where the nearest Bhodi forest is. This is going to surprise you: So turn around if you still cling to a belief system that tells you that you too can reach the lofty heights of oneness through some concoction of the mind. There is absolutely no relationship between what you think you do and losing the so called self. Exactly the opposite occurs. When the fruit is ripe.....the circumstances occur quite naturally in which the mysterious sense of isolation flows into a dissolving process....completely without its own help....or choice. The right people come along....the right words appear....a new channel opens.......and the maturation occurs....quite naturally ...and in spite of anything done...the organism begins to loose its edges...it becomes translucent...and in some cases....quite clear. It's all just opposite of what you've been told. So use your formulas.......There are worse things to do with your time....but there are none more unproductive. Now.........Ain't that a kick in the ass? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 <<< There is absolutely no relationship between what you think you do and losing the so called self. When the fruit is ripe.....the circumstances occur quite naturally in which the mysterious sense of isolation flows into a dissolving process....completely without its own help....or choice. The right people come along....the right words appear....a new channel opens.......and the maturation occurs....quite naturally ...and in spite of anything done...the organism begins to loose its edges...it becomes translucent...and in some cases....quite clear. >>> some call it Grace which could be a name for no explanation and there is no explanation because outside of all that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > <<< > There is absolutely no relationship between what you think you do > and losing the so called self. > > When the fruit is ripe.....the circumstances occur quite naturally > in which the mysterious sense of isolation flows into a dissolving > process....completely without its own help....or choice. > > The right people come along....the right words appear....a new > channel opens.......and the maturation occurs....quite > naturally ...and in spite of anything done...the organism begins to > loose its edges...it becomes translucent...and in some > cases....quite clear. > >>> > > some call it Grace > > which could be a name for no explanation > > and there is no explanation because outside of all that > ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 In a message dated 5/3/2006 1:19:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: " toombaru2006 " lastrain Tue May 2, 2006 9:25pm(PDT) Formulas Oh I know......it seems like there is a causal relationship between what you believe are your volitional actions and this self thing becoming 'enlightened'. You listen with rapt attention to everything every self proclainmed sage did just before they popped into the emptiness. Wayne Liquorman had two lovers...one left.....he broke down and became enlightened. So you consider going out and getting another lover. Adya heard a bird song....and ask: " Who is hearing this " ...and BAM!.....there he wasn't. And all of a sudden you find your self watching the birds....wondering.... The Buddha plunked himself down under a tree and you start asking where the nearest Bhodi forest is. This is going to surprise you: So turn around if you still cling to a belief system that tells you that you too can reach the lofty heights of oneness through some concoction of the mind. There is absolutely no relationship between what you think you do and losing the so called self. Exactly the opposite occurs. When the fruit is ripe.....the circumstances occur quite naturally in which the mysterious sense of isolation flows into a dissolving process....completely without its own help....or choice. The right people come along....the right words appear....a new channel opens.......and the maturation occurs....quite naturally ...and in spite of anything done...the organism begins to loose its edges...it becomes translucent...and in some cases....quite clear. It's all just opposite of what you've been told. So use your formulas.......There are worse things to do with your time....but there are none more unproductive. Now.........Ain't that a kick in the ass? toombaru The right people come along....the right words appear....a new channel opens.......and the maturation occurs....quite naturally ...and in spite of anything done...the organism begins to loose its edges...it becomes translucent...and in some cases....quite clear. Yes, it all just happens, doesn't it? It happens by itself, but it happens. This doesn't apply just to the last 24hours before 'awakening'. It's always so, and so does that mean the " formulas " , the explorations, the ego work, etc, are all foolishness that should not be done at all and have no relationship to what finally occurs? No, it's all perfect just as it is, including the perception that this perfection is useless and pointless. What is truly useless and pointless is the concept of non-volition. Of what value is this to anyone? If it's true, how does knowing this change anything, and if hearing this does result in new choices, then the concept has just been proven false. There is no more meaningless concept than to inform a nonvolitional being that he has no volition. What could possibly be done with that information? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/3/2006 1:19:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " toombaru2006 " lastrain > Tue May 2, 2006 9:25pm(PDT) > Formulas Oh I know......it seems like there is a causal relationship between > what you believe are your volitional actions and this self thing > becoming 'enlightened'. > > You listen with rapt attention to everything every self proclainmed > sage did just before they popped into the emptiness. > > Wayne Liquorman had two lovers...one left.....he broke down and became > enlightened. > > So you consider going out and getting another lover. > > Adya heard a bird song....and ask: " Who is hearing this " ...and > BAM!.....there he wasn't. > > > And all of a sudden you find your self watching the > birds....wondering.... > > > The Buddha plunked himself down under a tree and you start asking > where the nearest Bhodi forest is. > > This is going to surprise you: > > So turn around if you still cling to a belief system that tells > you that you too can reach the lofty heights of oneness through some > concoction of the mind. > > There is absolutely no relationship between what you think you do > and losing the so called self. > > Exactly the opposite occurs. > > When the fruit is ripe.....the circumstances occur quite naturally > in which the mysterious sense of isolation flows into a dissolving > process....completely without its own help....or choice. > > The right people come along....the right words appear....a new > channel opens.......and the maturation occurs....quite > naturally ...and in spite of anything done...the organism begins to > loose its edges...it becomes translucent...and in some > cases....quite clear. > > It's all just opposite of what you've been told. > > > So use your formulas.......There are worse things to do with your > time....but there are none more unproductive. > > > > Now.........Ain't that a kick in the ass? > > > toombaru > > > > The right people come along....the right words appear....a new > channel opens.......and the maturation occurs....quite > naturally ...and in spite of anything done...the organism begins to > loose its edges...it becomes translucent...and in some > cases....quite clear. > > > Yes, it all just happens, doesn't it? It happens by itself, but it happens. > This doesn't apply just to the last 24hours before 'awakening'. It's always > so, and so does that mean the " formulas " , the explorations, the ego work, etc, > are all foolishness that should not be done at all and have no relationship > to what finally occurs? No, it's all perfect just as it is, including the > perception that this perfection is useless and pointless. > > What is truly useless and pointless is the concept of non-volition. Of what > value is this to anyone? If it's true, how does knowing this change anything, > and if hearing this does result in new choices, then the concept has just > been proven false. There is no more meaningless concept than to inform a > nonvolitional being that he has no volition. What could possibly be done with that > information? > > Phil Ha! Good one! And just as meaningless to inform a nonvolitional being that it is meaningless to so inform. The meaninglessness is really piling up here! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/3/2006 1:19:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " toombaru2006 " lastrain > Tue May 2, 2006 9:25pm(PDT) > Formulas Oh I know......it seems like there is a causal relationship between > what you believe are your volitional actions and this self thing > becoming 'enlightened'. > > You listen with rapt attention to everything every self proclainmed > sage did just before they popped into the emptiness. > > Wayne Liquorman had two lovers...one left.....he broke down and became > enlightened. > > So you consider going out and getting another lover. > > Adya heard a bird song....and ask: " Who is hearing this " ...and > BAM!.....there he wasn't. > > > And all of a sudden you find your self watching the > birds....wondering.... > > > The Buddha plunked himself down under a tree and you start asking > where the nearest Bhodi forest is. > > This is going to surprise you: > > So turn around if you still cling to a belief system that tells > you that you too can reach the lofty heights of oneness through some > concoction of the mind. > > There is absolutely no relationship between what you think you do > and losing the so called self. > > Exactly the opposite occurs. > > When the fruit is ripe.....the circumstances occur quite naturally > in which the mysterious sense of isolation flows into a dissolving > process....completely without its own help....or choice. > > The right people come along....the right words appear....a new > channel opens.......and the maturation occurs....quite > naturally ...and in spite of anything done...the organism begins to > loose its edges...it becomes translucent...and in some > cases....quite clear. > > It's all just opposite of what you've been told. > > > So use your formulas.......There are worse things to do with your > time....but there are none more unproductive. > > > > Now.........Ain't that a kick in the ass? > > > toombaru > > > > The right people come along....the right words appear....a new > channel opens.......and the maturation occurs....quite > naturally ...and in spite of anything done...the organism begins to > loose its edges...it becomes translucent...and in some > cases....quite clear. > > > Yes, it all just happens, doesn't it? It happens by itself, but it happens. > This doesn't apply just to the last 24hours before 'awakening'. It's always > so, and so does that mean the " formulas " , the explorations, the ego work, etc, > are all foolishness that should not be done at all and have no relationship > to what finally occurs? No, it's all perfect just as it is, including the > perception that this perfection is useless and pointless. > > What is truly useless and pointless is the concept of non- volition. Of what > value is this to anyone? If it's true, how does knowing this change anything, > and if hearing this does result in new choices, then the concept has just > been proven false. There is no more meaningless concept than to inform a > nonvolitional being that he has no volition. What could possibly be done with that > information? > > Phil Unless the being is interested in perpetuating this concept of his non volition in order to disturb the perception of his volitionary clinging to all sort of concepts ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 In a message dated 5/4/2006 5:51:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Nisargadatta writes: " lissbon2002 " lissbon2002 Thu May 4, 2006 4:56am(PDT) Re: Formulas Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/3/2006 1:19:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " toombaru2006 " lastrain > Tue May 2, 2006 9:25pm(PDT) > Formulas Oh I know......it seems like there is a causal relationship between > what you believe are your volitional actions and this self thing > becoming 'enlightened'. > > You listen with rapt attention to everything every self proclainmed > sage did just before they popped into the emptiness. > > Wayne Liquorman had two lovers...one left.....he broke down and became > enlightened. > > So you consider going out and getting another lover. > > Adya heard a bird song....and ask: " Who is hearing this " ...and > BAM!.....there he wasn't. > > > And all of a sudden you find your self watching the > birds....wondering.... > > > The Buddha plunked himself down under a tree and you start asking > where the nearest Bhodi forest is. > > This is going to surprise you: > > So turn around if you still cling to a belief system that tells > you that you too can reach the lofty heights of oneness through some > concoction of the mind. > > There is absolutely no relationship between what you think you do > and losing the so called self. > > Exactly the opposite occurs. > > When the fruit is ripe.....the circumstances occur quite naturally > in which the mysterious sense of isolation flows into a dissolving > process....completely without its own help....or choice. > > The right people come along....the right words appear....a new > channel opens.......and the maturation occurs....quite > naturally ...and in spite of anything done...the organism begins to > loose its edges...it becomes translucent...and in some > cases....quite clear. > > It's all just opposite of what you've been told. > > > So use your formulas.......There are worse things to do with your > time....but there are none more unproductive. > > > > Now.........Ain't that a kick in the ass? > > > toombaru > > > > The right people come along....the right words appear....a new > channel opens.......and the maturation occurs....quite > naturally ...and in spite of anything done...the organism begins to > loose its edges...it becomes translucent...and in some > cases....quite clear. > > > Yes, it all just happens, doesn't it? It happens by itself, but it happens. > This doesn't apply just to the last 24hours before 'awakening'. It's always > so, and so does that mean the " formulas " , the explorations, the ego work, etc, > are all foolishness that should not be done at all and have no relationship > to what finally occurs? No, it's all perfect just as it is, including the > perception that this perfection is useless and pointless. > > What is truly useless and pointless is the concept of non- volition. Of what > value is this to anyone? If it's true, how does knowing this change anything, > and if hearing this does result in new choices, then the concept has just > been proven false. There is no more meaningless concept than to inform a > nonvolitional being that he has no volition. What could possibly be done with that > information? > > Phil Unless the being is interested in perpetuating this concept of his non volition in order to disturb the perception of his volitionary clinging to all sort of concepts ;-) Len Yup. A great place for ego to hide. This is what makes concepts dangerous. The first thought that always occurs is, 'How can 'I' use this concept?' All the while we ignore the fact that this 'me' is the problem to begin with. Nothing can really be done about that thought, since it's a given that ego is what seeks awakening, which is of course why the seeking itself is so problematic, but it can at least be noticed when a concept is being grasped to prevent awakening by protecting this 'me' and when it's pointing to Truth which is never going to be good news for 'me'. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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