Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 B:Here is a quote from Consciousness and the Absolute that references deep sleep: What is the worth of all the activities of human beings? It is all entertainment, just to pass time. You get pleasure only when you forget yourself; in deep sleep you have forgotten yourself, that itself is joy. I don't see that as being signficantly at odds with the I Am That quotes that I presented regarding deep sleep. Do you? Bill P: No I don't, but you chose a pretty lame quote. Below is one with a murderous edge. One that could, if rightly understood decapitate all beliefs of consciousness and Beingness being more than a sideshow. M: Consciousness is time flowing continuously, but I, the Absolute will not have its company eternally because consciousness is time bound. When the beingness goes, the Absolute will not know " I Am. " Appearance and disappearance, birth and death, these are the qualities of beingness; they are not your qualities. You have urinated and odor is coming from that- are you that odor? Q: No, I am not. M: This beingness is like that urine. Can you be that beingness? Q: Absolutely not! M: You require no more sadhana. For you the words of the guru are final. From " Consciousness And the Absolute " page #8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: > > B:Here is a quote from Consciousness and the Absolute that > references deep sleep: > > What is the worth of all the activities of human beings? It > is all entertainment, just to pass time. You get pleasure > only when you forget yourself; in deep sleep you have > forgotten yourself, that itself is joy. > > I don't see that as being signficantly at odds with the > I Am That quotes that I presented regarding deep sleep. > Do you? > > > Bill > > P: No I don't, but you chose a pretty lame quote. The quote you present below is not about deep sleep! I am totally familiar with Nis's notion of Consciousness as being a relative sideshow, and not the real deal. But that point is not what was being discussed; rather the discussion was about *deep sleep*! Puzzled in Timbuktu, Bill PS: I also could find some quotes of his regarding the puny insignificance of Consciousness that would have a bit more " edge " , in my view, than the one you provide below. PS part II: But since you have brought the topic of Consciousness as a relative dream into it here, and since it is indeed a very interesting topic (which gets very little air time here on the list), I will raise a couple of points: 1. Awareness of Consciousness *per se* is still relatively advanced. Seems to me that while many will *talk about* Consciousness, generally this is as a concept and not actual experience. 2. To truly come to an awareness of Consciousness per se inherently entails being beyond Consciousness. Agreed? > Below is one with a murderous edge. One that > could, if rightly understood decapitate all beliefs > of consciousness and Beingness being more than a > sideshow. > > M: Consciousness is time flowing continuously, > but I, the Absolute will not have its company > eternally because consciousness is time bound. > When the beingness goes, the Absolute will not > know " I Am. " Appearance and disappearance, birth > and death, these are the qualities of beingness; > they are not your qualities. You have urinated > and odor is coming from that- are you that odor? > > Q: No, I am not. > > M: This beingness is like that urine. Can you be > that beingness? > > Q: Absolutely not! > > M: You require no more sadhana. For you the words > of the guru are final. > > From " Consciousness And the Absolute " page #8 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 On May 7, 2006, at 6:40 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: > Message 8 > " pliantheart " illusyn > Sun May 7, 2006 11:15am(PDT) > Re: Is Coma Deeper Than Deep Sleep > > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: >> >> B:Here is a quote from Consciousness and the Absolute that >> references deep sleep: >> >> What is the worth of all the activities of human beings? It >> is all entertainment, just to pass time. You get pleasure >> only when you forget yourself; in deep sleep you have >> forgotten yourself, that itself is joy. >> >> I don't see that as being signficantly at odds with the >> I Am That quotes that I presented regarding deep sleep. >> Do you? >> >> >> Bill >> >> P: No I don't, but you chose a pretty lame quote. > > B: The quote you present below is not about deep sleep! > > I am totally familiar with Nis's notion of Consciousness > as being a relative sideshow, and not the real deal. > But that point is not what was being discussed; rather > the discussion was about *deep sleep*! P: Deep sleep can't not be discussed without addressing the assertion some make that they remain conscious in deep sleep. This is simply a projection, being conscious leaves a distinctive signature on encephalograms and Cat Scans which is absent in the recorded brain activity of deep sleep. > > Puzzled in Timbuktu, > Bill > > B: PS: I also could find some quotes of his regarding > the puny insignificance of Consciousness that would > have a bit more " edge " , in my view, than the one you > provide below. P: Good, the more the better. > > B: PS part II: But since you have brought the topic > of Consciousness as a relative dream into it here, > and since it is indeed a very interesting topic > (which gets very little air time here on the list), > I will raise a couple of points: > > 1. Awareness of Consciousness *per se* is still > relatively advanced. Seems to me that while many > will *talk about* Consciousness, generally this is > as a concept and not actual experience. > > 2. To truly come to an awareness of Consciousness > per se inherently entails being beyond Consciousness. > > Agreed? P: You need to tell why you capitalized consciousness above. I agree that paying attention to paying attention, feeling what feels could reveal the unconscious juggernaut which hides behind that one way window called consciousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: > > > On May 7, 2006, at 6:40 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: > > > Message 8 > > " pliantheart " illusyn > > Sun May 7, 2006 11:15am(PDT) > > Re: Is Coma Deeper Than Deep Sleep > > > > >SNIP< > P: Deep sleep can't not be discussed without addressing > the assertion some make that they remain conscious in > deep sleep. This is simply a projection, being conscious > leaves a distinctive signature on encephalograms and > Cat Scans which is absent in the recorded brain activity > of deep sleep. B:Consciousness cannot be discussed without addressing the assertion some make that they remain in Deep Sleep in Consciousness. I believe the only thing that leaves a signature on the rolling paper of an encephalogram done on one of these folks, is the little arm that has a point on it that makes marks on the rolling-along paper. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a signature on a cat scan. I think that's only done by well known catscanners to add future value to their work. Problem is with that, you then have a signature present on the catscan done on the consciously deep sleeper, and of course as you say, it's not there. I guess it would be presently absent in this case. .........bob > > 1. Awareness of Consciousness *per se* is still > > relatively advanced. Seems to me that while many > > will *talk about* Consciousness, generally this is > > as a concept and not actual experience. > > > > 2. To truly come to an awareness of Consciousness > > per se inherently entails being beyond Consciousness. > > > > Agreed? > > P: You need to tell why you capitalized consciousness above. > I agree that paying attention to paying attention, feeling > what feels could reveal the unconscious juggernaut which > hides behind that one way window called consciousness. > B: How can awareness of consciousness(per se or hearsay..eitherway or anyway), be relatively advanced? It seems to me that it is absolutely the most SIMPLE and FUNDAMENTAL fact of life period. If it's advanced...than I guess there are grades of consciousness and enlightenment and endarkment? Maybe Tom Cruise could help us out on this powerful grading system of Awareness and Scientological Clearness. Why must people take the most basic reality of existence, " I Am " , and make it out like some great Mystery to be known only to the Wise and Enlightened. What a friggin' joke!: " Look! The sky is blue! You don't understand the true and profound blueness and meaning of that firmament...that carresses us with liquid light of wisdom's nectar! Ahhh Bliss beyond knowing! " . Well bliss covered bullshit anyway. ....bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Dear Nisargadatta; When God resides in a human body in which the soul is filtered from all activities (All the waves which are Antahkaranams and qualities disappear and Jeeva is dissolved in static soul) and is converted into inert energy as in the state of deep sleep, such a human incarnation is called as Avadhuta Datta. If God does not enter the human body of an Avadhuta, such a human body is just like an inert statue in which only the living mechanisms function as in the case of a plant or as in the case of a person in deep sleep or a coma. No vasana (worldy issues) can attack the person who is in this state, which resembles a rock. If God enters into a human body in which the soul has become static by removing all the qualities and antahkaranams, but the soul is not converted into inert energy, such a state is called as a state of Yogi Raja or Yogishwara. This state resembles the state of perfect meditation in which the nervous system functions but the awareness is not active except that it is aware of itself (Atma Bodha). In the case of human incarnation, there is no difference between the Avadhuta and Yogi Raja because the static awareness cannot be disturbed by any vasana due to the presence of God. But in the case of a human being, this state of Yogi Raja is attained by perfect meditation but there is always a chance of disturbance. If God is present in a human body in which the soul and the Jeeva exist, (the waves of awareness which are Antahkaranams consisting of the three qualities), the human incarnation appears with three faces representing Trimukha Datta. The same human incarnation becomes the Vishwarupam with several faces when the Jeeva consists of several qualities (which are only the various combinations of three qualities). The various faces in Vishwarupam are the various qualities formed by the interaction of the three qualities, which are represented by the three central faces. These latter two states represent that Datta is associated with all qualities to entertain Himself in the divine play. The former two stages (Avadhuta and Yogi Raja) are for the sages who do sadhana to get rid of the qualities for achieving the self. The latter two states (Trimukha Datta and Viswarupam) represent God who is playing in the world for full entertainment and is available for the devotees for doing the service. Adavita is related to the two former states where as Visishtaadvaita and Dvaita are related to the latter two states. Thus, Datta means the human incarnation only with reference to this earth and His form represents all the steps of sadhana. At the Lotus Feet of Shri Datta Swami roberibus111 <Roberibus111 wrote: Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: > > > On May 7, 2006, at 6:40 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: > > > Message 8 > > " pliantheart " illusyn > > Sun May 7, 2006 11:15am(PDT) > > Re: Is Coma Deeper Than Deep Sleep > > > > >SNIP< > P: Deep sleep can't not be discussed without addressing > the assertion some make that they remain conscious in > deep sleep. This is simply a projection, being conscious > leaves a distinctive signature on encephalograms and > Cat Scans which is absent in the recorded brain activity > of deep sleep. B:Consciousness cannot be discussed without addressing the assertion some make that they remain in Deep Sleep in Consciousness. I believe the only thing that leaves a signature on the rolling paper of an encephalogram done on one of these folks, is the little arm that has a point on it that makes marks on the rolling-along paper. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a signature on a cat scan. I think that's only done by well known catscanners to add future value to their work. Problem is with that, you then have a signature present on the catscan done on the consciously deep sleeper, and of course as you say, it's not there. I guess it would be presently absent in this case. .........bob > > 1. Awareness of Consciousness *per se* is still > > relatively advanced. Seems to me that while many > > will *talk about* Consciousness, generally this is > > as a concept and not actual experience. > > > > 2. To truly come to an awareness of Consciousness > > per se inherently entails being beyond Consciousness. > > > > Agreed? > > P: You need to tell why you capitalized consciousness above. > I agree that paying attention to paying attention, feeling > what feels could reveal the unconscious juggernaut which > hides behind that one way window called consciousness. > B: How can awareness of consciousness(per se or hearsay..eitherway or anyway), be relatively advanced? It seems to me that it is absolutely the most SIMPLE and FUNDAMENTAL fact of life period. If it's advanced...than I guess there are grades of consciousness and enlightenment and endarkment? Maybe Tom Cruise could help us out on this powerful grading system of Awareness and Scientological Clearness. Why must people take the most basic reality of existence, " I Am " , and make it out like some great Mystery to be known only to the Wise and Enlightened. What a friggin' joke!: " Look! The sky is blue! You don't understand the true and profound blueness and meaning of that firmament...that carresses us with liquid light of wisdom's nectar! Ahhh Bliss beyond knowing! " . Well bliss covered bullshit anyway. ....bob ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. 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Guest guest Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 L.E: The first problem with the following ideas is the statement, " If God. " So now we have a human life that may have God in it (him) or not. We now have two kinds of humans: those whom God has entered, and those whom HIS god has not entered. This is all myth and storytelling. Very sophisticated and complex as our Western writers have done for example, with Judiasm or Catholism. But it is myth and not truth and must be overcome and surpassed to get to life as it is, reality as it is, our own true identity as living beings. Being born in a culture makes this process very difficult and extraordinary. Not many can ever free themselves from this level of cultural contamination because like other addictions, it offers its pleasures and self-satisfactions which feeds the addiction. It is so unfortunate to turn on the TV and see other victims of this kind of indocrination. Dear Nisargadatta; When God resides in a human body in which the soul is filtered from all activities (All the waves which are Antahkaranams and qualities disappear and Jeeva is dissolved in static soul) and is converted into inert energy as in the state of deep sleep, such a human incarnation is called as Avadhuta Datta. If God does not enter the human body of an Avadhuta, such a human body is just like an inert statue in which only the living mechanisms function as in the case of a plant or as in the case of a person in deep sleep or a coma. No vasana (worldy issues) can attack the person who is in this state, which resembles a rock. If God enters into a human body in which the soul has become static by removing all the qualities and antahkaranams, but the soul is not converted into inert energy, such a state is called as a state of Yogi Raja or Yogishwara. This state resembles the state of perfect meditation in which the nervous system functions but the awareness is not active except that it is aware of itself (Atma Bodha). In the case of human incarnation, there is no difference between the Avadhuta and Yogi Raja because the static awareness cannot be disturbed by any vasana due to the presence of God. But in the case of a human being, this state of Yogi Raja is attained by perfect meditation but there is always a chance of disturbance. If God is present in a human body in which the soul and the Jeeva exist, (the waves of awareness which are Antahkaranams consisting of the three qualities), the human incarnation appears with three faces representing Trimukha Datta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 P: You need to tell why you capitalized consciousness above. I agree that paying attention to paying attention, feeling what feels could reveal the unconscious juggernaut which hides behind that one way window called consciousness. L.E: Why would you want to " reveal the unconscious juggernaut which hides behind the one-way window called consciousness? " Are you as interested in the " unconscous juggernaut " called the function of the liver, kidneys or blood circulation? You are not conscious of these elements yet they are of no concern. When the ego-self, you, has dissolved, relaxed, retired back into the realm of mind, mind just exists just as the other organs and functions. Doing its job to be as it is. Only when the ego is active does the mind extend into verbal and external behavior. The human organism is a collective, an extension of intelligence of all its elements into a creature that attempts to prolong its existence as a collective group for as long as it can. For this purpose, survival, it has develped as itself, brain, mind, and ego, all to aid survival of the cellular collective. No part of it stand alone without the supported existence of subordinate levels. That is why there is no essential ego, mind, brain or self. Because no part exists on its own. The human organism is a community, a collective. This can be realized through silence and meditation. The mind as self can also understand its own nature through intuitive thinking. Larry Epston www.epston.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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