Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will shine. -- Ramana Maharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > shine. > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > The edict " Follow the path with heart' has an entirely different connotation then the above. One suggests a going out....the other a going in. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 On 5/11/06, toombaru2006 <lastrain wrote: > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > shine. > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > The edict " Follow the path with heart' has an entirely different > connotation then the above. > > One suggests a going out....the other a going in. > > > > toombaru and thus the clash of words falls cluttering into silence their meanings amended their concordances arighted Hey toombaru! I think I like you! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <illusyn wrote: > > On 5/11/06, toombaru2006 <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > > shine. > > > > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > > The edict " Follow the path with heart' has an entirely different > > connotation then the above. > > > > One suggests a going out....the other a going in. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > and thus the clash of words falls > cluttering into silence > their meanings amended > their concordances arighted > > > Hey toombaru! > I think I like you! > > > Bill > You have always been my favorite. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > shine. > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > The edict " Follow the path with heart' has an entirely different > connotation then the above. > > One suggests a going out....the other a going in. > > > > toombaru I get that feeling of doing both whenever I find myself on the inside of a four-sectioned vertiginous revolving door. Thank the stars they have sort of gone out of style. Plus I seldom find myself in the city anymore, where buildings have those things. But as a young boy I used to love seeing how fast my friends and I could make them spin around. When we would do that stunt, we never went in or out, we just kept spinning around and around. Some of us have stayed inside those whirling doors for a lifetime, neither going in nor out. Just sucking and blowing all the way 'round the roundings. And some never knew whether they went out or went in or went anywhere at all. But we all had a lot of heartfelt fun on that path to nowhere, but I'm not sure I'd call that circle-go-round a path WITH a heart. .bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > > shine. > > > > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > > The edict " Follow the path with heart' has an entirely different > > connotation then the above. > > > > One suggests a going out....the other a going in. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > I get that feeling of doing both whenever I find myself on the inside > of a four-sectioned vertiginous revolving door. Thank the stars they > have sort of gone out of style. Plus I seldom find myself in the city > anymore, where buildings have those things. But as a young boy I used > to love seeing how fast my friends and I could make them spin around. > When we would do that stunt, we never went in or out, we just kept > spinning around and around. Some of us have stayed inside those > whirling doors for a lifetime, neither going in nor out. Just sucking > and blowing all the way 'round the roundings. And some never knew > whether they went out or went in or went anywhere at all. But we all > had a lot of heartfelt fun on that path to nowhere, but I'm not sure > I'd call that circle-go-round a path WITH a heart. > > .bob > One goes around........... and around.........and then mysteriously.............one circles up over the orb. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > shine. > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > And the funny thing is when visitors were mentioning the mind that Ramana often answered " There is no mind, show me the mind " . Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 On 5/11/06, Werner Woehr <wwoehr wrote: > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn > wrote: > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > shine. > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > And the funny thing is when visitors where mentioning the mind that > Ramana ofthen answered " There is no mind, show me the mind " . > > Werner > If his statements are seen as essentially poetic in nature then the inference that there is a 'mind' in some real sense needn't arise from his statement above. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <illusyn wrote: > > On 5/11/06, Werner Woehr <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > > shine. > > > > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > And the funny thing is when visitors where mentioning the mind that > > Ramana ofthen answered " There is no mind, show me the mind " . > > > > Werner > > > > If his statements are seen as essentially poetic in nature > then the inference that there is a 'mind' in some real sense > needn't arise from his statement above. > > Bill > Seems that poesy is twister's and interpreter's paradise. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 On 5/12/06, Werner Woehr <wwoehr wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <illusyn > wrote: > > > > On 5/11/06, Werner Woehr <wwoehr wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > > > shine. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > > > And the funny thing is when visitors where mentioning the mind > that > > > Ramana ofthen answered " There is no mind, show me the mind " . > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > If his statements are seen as essentially poetic in nature > > then the inference that there is a 'mind' in some real sense > > needn't arise from his statement above. > > > > Bill > > > > Seems that poesy is twister's and interpreter's paradise. > > Werner > > paradise or not, it is inescapable Werner. there are no hard nail-down words for anything real. distrust poesy as much as you like. but the same distrust equally applies to ordinary prose. perhaps even more so, as with poesy it is clear that the words are just chimeras. with ordinary prose easy to lapse into delusions about the hard-edged honesty of what is being said, when it is no more honest than poetic expression. if anything it is more deluding, more seductive. Bill ps: c.f. my recent post " what is virtual " regarding this topic, as the notion of impermanence discussed there does apply here. impermanence (in the buddhist sense) is not just about what is " out there " , but also about any and all expressions in language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > > > On 5/12/06, Werner Woehr <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > On 5/11/06, Werner Woehr <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > > > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > > > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > > > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > > > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > > > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > > > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > > > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > > > > shine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the funny thing is when visitors where mentioning the mind > > that > > > > Ramana ofthen answered " There is no mind, show me the mind " . > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > If his statements are seen as essentially poetic in nature > > > then the inference that there is a 'mind' in some real sense > > > needn't arise from his statement above. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Seems that poesy is twister's and interpreter's paradise. > > > > Werner > > > > > > paradise or not, it is inescapable Werner. > > there are no hard nail-down words > for anything real. > > distrust poesy as much as you like. > but the same distrust equally applies > to ordinary prose. perhaps even more > so, as with poesy it is clear that the > words are just chimeras. with ordinary > prose easy to lapse into delusions about > the hard-edged honesty of what is being > said, when it is no more honest than > poetic expression. if anything it is more > deluding, more seductive. > > > Bill > > ps: c.f. my recent post " what is virtual " > regarding this topic, as the notion of > impermanence discussed there does > apply here. impermanence (in the > buddhist sense) is not just about what > is " out there " , but also about any and all > expressions in language. > Bill, I don't distrust poetry but I am hesitant and cautious with people sending poetry to a Maharaj forum and more or less proudly feel sitting aside of God. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 5/12/06, Werner Woehr <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 5/11/06, Werner Woehr <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > > > > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > > > > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > > > > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > > > > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > > > > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > > > > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > > > > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > > > > > shine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the funny thing is when visitors where mentioning the mind > > > that > > > > > Ramana ofthen answered " There is no mind, show me the mind " . > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > If his statements are seen as essentially poetic in nature > > > > then the inference that there is a 'mind' in some real sense > > > > needn't arise from his statement above. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Seems that poesy is twister's and interpreter's paradise. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > paradise or not, it is inescapable Werner. > > > > there are no hard nail-down words > > for anything real. > > > > distrust poesy as much as you like. > > but the same distrust equally applies > > to ordinary prose. perhaps even more > > so, as with poesy it is clear that the > > words are just chimeras. with ordinary > > prose easy to lapse into delusions about > > the hard-edged honesty of what is being > > said, when it is no more honest than > > poetic expression. if anything it is more > > deluding, more seductive. > > > > > > Bill > > > > ps: c.f. my recent post " what is virtual " > > regarding this topic, as the notion of > > impermanence discussed there does > > apply here. impermanence (in the > > buddhist sense) is not just about what > > is " out there " , but also about any and all > > expressions in language. > > > > Bill, > > I don't distrust poetry but I am hesitant and cautious with people > sending poetry to a Maharaj forum and more or less proudly feel > sitting aside of God. > > Werner We each read into the words of others on this list qualities of character, inferences about what is behind the words. Some of us can be cleaner about that than others, but I expect that happens for all of us to some degree. In my case I distrust what I see in your words an evidence of making judgements about others from their words. That some words seem to express something " beyond " ordinary experience does not in itself mean that there is any pride involved in the speaking of that. You don't actually *know* what is behind such expressions. Do you agree with this? Questioning the potential deludedness of others is of minor significance in comparison to questioning it in ourselves. You seem to be on a constant mission to " unmask " others. What service are you performing to whom in such efforts? Is it not enough for each of us to focus strictly on unmasking ourselves? Sure, I may come to distrust another party on this list and come to a distancing myself with respect to that party. But is it honest for me to go on some kind of " campaign " to unmask that individual's " dishonesty " before all the list? I suggest that my question regarding what I perceive as your " constant mission to 'unmask' others " is an important one. I hope you give it consideration. And I would be interested in your comments about this. But I have also noticed that you seem to get uncomfortable when the focus is on you. So perhaps you will not want to address my questions here. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/12/06, Werner Woehr <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On 5/11/06, Werner Woehr <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <illusyn@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > > > > > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > > > > > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms > disappear. > > > > > > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the > Heart > > > > > > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out > of > > > > > > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > > > > > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > > > > > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists > will > > > > > > > shine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the funny thing is when visitors where mentioning the > mind > > > > that > > > > > > Ramana ofthen answered " There is no mind, show me the mind " . > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If his statements are seen as essentially poetic in nature > > > > > then the inference that there is a 'mind' in some real sense > > > > > needn't arise from his statement above. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems that poesy is twister's and interpreter's paradise. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paradise or not, it is inescapable Werner. > > > > > > there are no hard nail-down words > > > for anything real. > > > > > > distrust poesy as much as you like. > > > but the same distrust equally applies > > > to ordinary prose. perhaps even more > > > so, as with poesy it is clear that the > > > words are just chimeras. with ordinary > > > prose easy to lapse into delusions about > > > the hard-edged honesty of what is being > > > said, when it is no more honest than > > > poetic expression. if anything it is more > > > deluding, more seductive. > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > ps: c.f. my recent post " what is virtual " > > > regarding this topic, as the notion of > > > impermanence discussed there does > > > apply here. impermanence (in the > > > buddhist sense) is not just about what > > > is " out there " , but also about any and all > > > expressions in language. > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > I don't distrust poetry but I am hesitant and cautious with people > > sending poetry to a Maharaj forum and more or less proudly feel > > sitting aside of God. > > > > Werner > > We each read into the words of others on this > list qualities of character, inferences about > what is behind the words. > > Some of us can be cleaner about that than others, > but I expect that happens for all of us to some > degree. > > In my case I distrust what I see in your words > an evidence of making judgements about others > from their words. > > That some words seem to express something " beyond " > ordinary experience does not in itself mean that > there is any pride involved in the speaking of > that. > > You don't actually *know* what is behind such > expressions. Do you agree with this? > > Questioning the potential deludedness of others > is of minor significance in comparison to questioning > it in ourselves. > > You seem to be on a constant mission to " unmask " > others. What service are you performing to whom > in such efforts? > > Is it not enough for each of us to focus strictly > on unmasking ourselves? > > Sure, I may come to distrust another party on this > list and come to a distancing myself with respect > to that party. But is it honest for me to go on > some kind of " campaign " to unmask that individual's > " dishonesty " before all the list? > > I suggest that my question regarding what I perceive > as your " constant mission to 'unmask' others " is an > important one. I hope you give it consideration. > > And I would be interested in your comments about this. > > But I have also noticed that you seem to get uncomfortable > when the focus is on you. > > So perhaps you will not want to address my questions > here. > > > Bill > Bill, I am an " artist " myself and so I have met many, more or less, famous artists in my life. The result was that I started to feel ashamed to call myself an artist. That was a " natural " process of unmasking during all those years. Gurdjieff once gave a talk about what is criminal and what are criminals and he ended with the statement that being criminal is relative to society and culture and that there are no absolute criminals. When leaving the room he returned again and said he was wrong and there are indeed real criminals: Artists ... Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/12/06, Werner Woehr <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <illusyn@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/11/06, Werner Woehr <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <illusyn@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the > brain > > > > > > > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms > appear; > > > > > > > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms > > disappear. > > > > > > > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the > > Heart > > > > > > > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go > out > > of > > > > > > > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when > the > > > > > > > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source > of > > > > > > > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists > > will > > > > > > > > shine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the funny thing is when visitors where mentioning the > > mind > > > > > that > > > > > > > Ramana ofthen answered " There is no mind, show me the > mind " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If his statements are seen as essentially poetic in nature > > > > > > then the inference that there is a 'mind' in some real sense > > > > > > needn't arise from his statement above. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems that poesy is twister's and interpreter's paradise. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paradise or not, it is inescapable Werner. > > > > > > > > there are no hard nail-down words > > > > for anything real. > > > > > > > > distrust poesy as much as you like. > > > > but the same distrust equally applies > > > > to ordinary prose. perhaps even more > > > > so, as with poesy it is clear that the > > > > words are just chimeras. with ordinary > > > > prose easy to lapse into delusions about > > > > the hard-edged honesty of what is being > > > > said, when it is no more honest than > > > > poetic expression. if anything it is more > > > > deluding, more seductive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > ps: c.f. my recent post " what is virtual " > > > > regarding this topic, as the notion of > > > > impermanence discussed there does > > > > apply here. impermanence (in the > > > > buddhist sense) is not just about what > > > > is " out there " , but also about any and all > > > > expressions in language. > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > I don't distrust poetry but I am hesitant and cautious with > people > > > sending poetry to a Maharaj forum and more or less proudly feel > > > sitting aside of God. > > > > > > Werner > > > > We each read into the words of others on this > > list qualities of character, inferences about > > what is behind the words. > > > > Some of us can be cleaner about that than others, > > but I expect that happens for all of us to some > > degree. > > > > In my case I distrust what I see in your words > > an evidence of making judgements about others > > from their words. > > > > That some words seem to express something " beyond " > > ordinary experience does not in itself mean that > > there is any pride involved in the speaking of > > that. > > > > You don't actually *know* what is behind such > > expressions. Do you agree with this? > > > > Questioning the potential deludedness of others > > is of minor significance in comparison to questioning > > it in ourselves. > > > > You seem to be on a constant mission to " unmask " > > others. What service are you performing to whom > > in such efforts? > > > > Is it not enough for each of us to focus strictly > > on unmasking ourselves? > > > > Sure, I may come to distrust another party on this > > list and come to a distancing myself with respect > > to that party. But is it honest for me to go on > > some kind of " campaign " to unmask that individual's > > " dishonesty " before all the list? > > > > I suggest that my question regarding what I perceive > > as your " constant mission to 'unmask' others " is an > > important one. I hope you give it consideration. > > > > And I would be interested in your comments about this. > > > > But I have also noticed that you seem to get uncomfortable > > when the focus is on you. > > > > So perhaps you will not want to address my questions > > here. > > > > > > Bill > > > > Bill, > > I am an " artist " myself and so I have met many, more or less, famous > artists in my life. The result was that I started to feel ashamed to > call myself an artist. That was a " natural " process of unmasking > during all those years. > > Gurdjieff once gave a talk about what is criminal and what are > criminals and he ended with the statement that being criminal is > relative to society and culture and that there are no absolute > criminals. When leaving the room he returned again and said he was > wrong and there are indeed real criminals: Artists ... > > > > Werner > ohh... I thought he would have come back to say there was a real criminal afterall, himself. kind of disappointed in Mr. Gurdjieff, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > shine. > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > And the funny thing is when visitors were mentioning the mind that > Ramana often answered " There is no mind, show me the mind " . > > Werner > Conceptual mentation is confined to conceptual mentation. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > > shine. > > > > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > > And the funny thing is when visitors were mentioning the mind that > > Ramana often answered " There is no mind, show me the mind " . > > > > Werner > > > > > > Conceptual mentation is confined to conceptual mentation. > > > toombaru > Such is the nature of conceptual mentation. It builds a house for itself... and moves in! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > > > shine. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the funny thing is when visitors were mentioning the mind that > > > Ramana often answered " There is no mind, show me the mind " . > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > Conceptual mentation is confined to conceptual mentation. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Such is the nature of conceptual mentation. > It builds a house for itself... > and moves in! > > > Bill > It is the house. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > > > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > > > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > > > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > > > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > > > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > > > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > > > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > > > > shine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the funny thing is when visitors were mentioning the mind that > > > > Ramana often answered " There is no mind, show me the mind " . > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conceptual mentation is confined to conceptual mentation. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > Such is the nature of conceptual mentation. > > It builds a house for itself... > > and moves in! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > It is the house. > > > > toombaru > as a Realtor, I can only say " Bring Your Family Home " . (on my business card;-) Home of course, is where the heart is ;-) Love to All, Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain > > > > > > and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; > > > > > > when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. > > > > > > Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart > > > > > > is what is called " inwardness " . Letting the mind go out of > > > > > > the Heart is known as " externalisation " . Thus, when the > > > > > > mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of > > > > > > all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will > > > > > > shine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the funny thing is when visitors were mentioning the mind > that > > > > > Ramana often answered " There is no mind, show me the mind " . > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conceptual mentation is confined to conceptual mentation. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Such is the nature of conceptual mentation. > > > It builds a house for itself... > > > and moves in! > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the house. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > as a Realtor, > I can only say " Bring Your Family Home " . (on my business card;-) > > Home of course, is where the heart is ;-) > > Love to All, > Ana > A house is not your home. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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