Guest guest Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 In a message dated 5/14/2006 8:27:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bigwaaba writes: > >Every sage knows that the answer is " in " the question. There is no > >such thing as an impossible problem or enigma. The only thing that > >makes a solution " impossible " is the route used to find it. If > you're > >going off on circuitous paths that lead nowhere, then nowhere is > >where you'll end up. L.E: That's not such a bad thing, is it? It's a good place to find nothing, and no one, or and be the only one there. And in the end, the there of no where is the here I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 I am new to this list. I have been working on other approaches to " awakening for the past 40 years. These other practices have done wonders for me in terms of what I can know or experience, but I am no closer to waking up than I was as a teenager. I read a book by Nisargadatta several years ago and worked hard on sensing what he was trying to teach. All I accomplished was to become more confused and more polarized. The polarization I fell deeper into was " self/no self " . By the time I finished reading the book I was a " self/no self " monster... I came to realize that an ego can't pull himself up off of the ground by grabbing his feet with his hands and lifting... it doesn't work:-) Now I feel that all things: matter, energy, space, time, personality or ego, finiteness, etc; is what I call " MIND " . And that the escape door to this MIND does not open from the inside. It only opens from the outside... But outside of " MIND " is " NO THINGNESS " , so no one is there to open any doors... I feel that bliss or serenity is also within MIND and is not true awakening or enlightenment... and that there is no such thing as being " close " to enlightenment. I feel that total absolute (by " absolute " I mean non- dual or infinite), death of self is not achievable. That an ego can only achieve or fail to achieve, it can't simply no longer exist because it is in a state of neither existing nor not existing. I see myself as a mirror that is full of images and that I believe myself to be those images... I also feel that... and this is strange... that even though I suffer the duality of " dukkah " ; that somehow all is as it should be, that all is ok... but yet I suffer... How can everything be ok if I suffer? It is like I am in both states at the same time, on both sides of the door, awake and asleep! So... Does anyone have any suggestions for me? :-) Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > In a message dated 5/14/2006 8:27:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > bigwaaba writes: > > > >Every sage knows that the answer is " in " the question. There is no > > >such thing as an impossible problem or enigma. The only thing that > > >makes a solution " impossible " is the route used to find it. If > > you're > > >going off on circuitous paths that lead nowhere, then nowhere is > > >where you'll end up. > > L.E: That's not such a bad thing, is it? It's a good place to find nothing, > and no one, or and be the only one there. And in the end, the there of no > where is the here I am. it's not a bad nor good thing. and you are right. ......bob > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> > wrote: > > > > > > I am new to this list. I have been working on other approaches to > > > " awakening for the past 40 years. These other practices have done > > > wonders for me in terms of what I can know or experience, but I > am no > > > closer to waking up than I was as a teenager. > > > > > > I read a book by Nisargadatta several years ago and worked hard on > > > sensing what he was trying to teach. > > > All I accomplished was to become more confused and more polarized. > > > > > > The polarization I fell deeper into was " self/no self " . By the > time I > > > finished reading the book I was a " self/no self " monster... > > > > > > I came to realize that an ego can't pull himself up off of the > ground > > > by grabbing his feet with his hands and lifting... it doesn't > work:-) > > > > > > Now I feel that all things: matter, energy, space, time, > personality > > > or ego, finiteness, etc; is what I call " MIND " . > > > And that the escape door to this MIND does not open from the > inside. > > > It only opens from the outside... > > > But outside of " MIND " is " NO THINGNESS " , so no one is there to > open > > > any doors... > > > > > > I feel that bliss or serenity is also within MIND and is not true > > > awakening or enlightenment... and that there is no such thing as > being > > > " close " to enlightenment. > > > > > > I feel that total absolute (by " absolute " I mean non- dual or > > > infinite), death of self is not achievable. That an ego can only > > > achieve or fail to achieve, it can't simply no longer exist > because it > > > is in a state of neither existing nor not existing. > > > > > > I see myself as a mirror that is full of images and that I believe > > > myself to be those images... > > > > > > I also feel that... and this is strange... that even though I > suffer > > > the duality of " dukkah " ; that somehow all is as it should be, > that all > > > is ok... but yet I suffer... How can everything be ok if I > suffer? > > > > > > It is like I am in both states at the same time, on both sides of > the > > > door, awake and asleep! > > > > > > So... > > > Does anyone have any suggestions for me? :-) > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really don't care about your problem. > > > > You see...... right now I am working on my own problem. > > > > My master told me that he has a goose egg stuck in a bottle and I > have > > to figure out how remove it before the egg hatches. > > > > And my time is running out! > > > > If you could possibly help me figure out how to to that........I > will > > have some time to spend on your problem. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > there never was a bottle. the egg is niether in nor out. and nothing > will or ever has, hatched. Problem solved. Now..my lawn needs cutting > and I have two mowers and only one me. can you help me. no....no one > is ever in need of help. but if you could please send me some of that > spare'time' you now have, I would appreciate it. > .....bob > You mean.........there never was a goose egg stuck in a bottle? That bastard! toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I am new to this list. I have been working on other approaches to > > > > " awakening for the past 40 years. These other practices have done > > > > wonders for me in terms of what I can know or experience, but I > > am no > > > > closer to waking up than I was as a teenager. > > > > > > > > I read a book by Nisargadatta several years ago and worked hard on > > > > sensing what he was trying to teach. > > > > All I accomplished was to become more confused and more polarized. > > > > > > > > The polarization I fell deeper into was " self/no self " . By the > > time I > > > > finished reading the book I was a " self/no self " monster... > > > > > > > > I came to realize that an ego can't pull himself up off of the > > ground > > > > by grabbing his feet with his hands and lifting... it doesn't > > work:-) > > > > > > > > Now I feel that all things: matter, energy, space, time, > > personality > > > > or ego, finiteness, etc; is what I call " MIND " . > > > > And that the escape door to this MIND does not open from the > > inside. > > > > It only opens from the outside... > > > > But outside of " MIND " is " NO THINGNESS " , so no one is there to > > open > > > > any doors... > > > > > > > > I feel that bliss or serenity is also within MIND and is not true > > > > awakening or enlightenment... and that there is no such thing as > > being > > > > " close " to enlightenment. > > > > > > > > I feel that total absolute (by " absolute " I mean non- dual or > > > > infinite), death of self is not achievable. That an ego can only > > > > achieve or fail to achieve, it can't simply no longer exist > > because it > > > > is in a state of neither existing nor not existing. > > > > > > > > I see myself as a mirror that is full of images and that I believe > > > > myself to be those images... > > > > > > > > I also feel that... and this is strange... that even though I > > suffer > > > > the duality of " dukkah " ; that somehow all is as it should be, > > that all > > > > is ok... but yet I suffer... How can everything be ok if I > > suffer? > > > > > > > > It is like I am in both states at the same time, on both sides of > > the > > > > door, awake and asleep! > > > > > > > > So... > > > > Does anyone have any suggestions for me? :-) > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really don't care about your problem. > > > > > > You see...... right now I am working on my own problem. > > > > > > My master told me that he has a goose egg stuck in a bottle and I > > have > > > to figure out how remove it before the egg hatches. > > > > > > And my time is running out! > > > > > > If you could possibly help me figure out how to to that........I > > will > > > have some time to spend on your problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > there never was a bottle. the egg is niether in nor out. and nothing > > will or ever has, hatched. Problem solved. Now..my lawn needs cutting > > and I have two mowers and only one me. can you help me. no....no one > > is ever in need of help. but if you could please send me some of that > > spare'time' you now have, I would appreciate it. > > .....bob > > > > > > You mean.........there never was a goose egg stuck in a bottle? > > > > > That bastard! > > > > > toombaru ROFLMAOASTC!!! ....bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 On 5/14/06, stuartkfmn <stuartkfmn wrote: > I am new to this list. I have been working on other approaches to > " awakening for the past 40 years. These other practices have done > wonders for me in terms of what I can know or experience, but I am no > closer to waking up than I was as a teenager. > > I read a book by Nisargadatta several years ago and worked hard on > sensing what he was trying to teach. > All I accomplished was to become more confused and more polarized. > > The polarization I fell deeper into was " self/no self " . By the time I > finished reading the book I was a " self/no self " monster... > > I came to realize that an ego can't pull himself up off of the ground > by grabbing his feet with his hands and lifting... it doesn't work:-) > > Now I feel that all things: matter, energy, space, time, personality > or ego, finiteness, etc; is what I call " MIND " . > And that the escape door to this MIND does not open from the inside. > It only opens from the outside... > But outside of " MIND " is " NO THINGNESS " , so no one is there to open > any doors... > > I feel that bliss or serenity is also within MIND and is not true > awakening or enlightenment... and that there is no such thing as being > " close " to enlightenment. > > I feel that total absolute (by " absolute " I mean non- dual or > infinite), death of self is not achievable. That an ego can only > achieve or fail to achieve, it can't simply no longer exist because it > is in a state of neither existing nor not existing. > > I see myself as a mirror that is full of images and that I believe > myself to be those images... > > I also feel that... and this is strange... that even though I suffer > the duality of " dukkah " ; that somehow all is as it should be, that all > is ok... but yet I suffer... How can everything be ok if I suffer? > > It is like I am in both states at the same time, on both sides of the > door, awake and asleep! > > So... > Does anyone have any suggestions for me? :-) > > Stu > Interesting account. Let's take a real look at the suffering you talk about. Imagine you are looking at a woman who is 1/8 mile or 1/4 km away. Perhaps you can tell she is wearing a red jacket, but you can't really see any detail. Let's say it is a woman. So at that distance you can only label what you see as " a woman " etc. Now imagine that you are a Chihuahua dog that she is holding. Maybe you are even nestled inside her jacket. Now she is an avalanche of sensations. You smell her, you hear the timbre of her voice, you feel her touch, etc. etc. Notice how that changes everything. And notice how the label " a woman " becomes relatively unimportant. Now zoom in on the suffering like you did on the woman. *Taste* the suffering, move with the subtle moment-to-moment changes in the suffering. Experience *every nuance* of the suffering. In so doing you get past the " label of suffering " into an entire universe of experience. And notice then that it's " sufferingness " is a function of its " labelness " ... that it isn't suffering anymore when zoomed in like that. And then notice that it isn't about " solving " some existential dilemma such as you seem to pose in your account. It is that one has become " stuck " (for one reason or another) and once really going into it, it starts moving again. It is once again an adventure. You are never *there* (in terms of some lofty spiritual destination). What matters is simply that it keeps moving, that it is a fascination, an adventure. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 " Bill Rishel " <illusyn wrote: > > On 5/14/06, stuartkfmn <stuartkfmn wrote: > > I am new to this list. I have been working on other approaches to > > " awakening for the past 40 years. These other practices have done > > wonders for me in terms of what I can know or experience, but I am no > > closer to waking up than I was as a teenager. > > > > I read a book by Nisargadatta several years ago and worked hard on > > sensing what he was trying to teach. > > All I accomplished was to become more confused and more polarized. > > > > The polarization I fell deeper into was " self/no self " . By the time I > > finished reading the book I was a " self/no self " monster... > > > > I came to realize that an ego can't pull himself up off of the ground > > by grabbing his feet with his hands and lifting... it doesn't work:-) > > > > Now I feel that all things: matter, energy, space, time, personality > > or ego, finiteness, etc; is what I call " MIND " . > > And that the escape door to this MIND does not open from the inside. > > It only opens from the outside... > > But outside of " MIND " is " NO THINGNESS " , so no one is there to open > > any doors... > > > > I feel that bliss or serenity is also within MIND and is not true > > awakening or enlightenment... and that there is no such thing as being > > " close " to enlightenment. > > > > I feel that total absolute (by " absolute " I mean non- dual or > > infinite), death of self is not achievable. That an ego can only > > achieve or fail to achieve, it can't simply no longer exist because it > > is in a state of neither existing nor not existing. > > > > I see myself as a mirror that is full of images and that I believe > > myself to be those images... > > > > I also feel that... and this is strange... that even though I suffer > > the duality of " dukkah " ; that somehow all is as it should be, that all > > is ok... but yet I suffer... How can everything be ok if I suffer? > > > > It is like I am in both states at the same time, on both sides of the > > door, awake and asleep! > > > > So... > > Does anyone have any suggestions for me? :-) > > > > Stu > > > > Interesting account. > > Let's take a real look at the suffering you talk about. > > Imagine you are looking at a woman who is 1/8 mile or 1/4 km away. > Perhaps you can tell she is wearing a red jacket, but you can't > really see any detail. Let's say it is a woman. So at that distance > you can only label what you see as " a woman " etc. > > Now imagine that you are a Chihuahua dog that she is holding. > Maybe you are even nestled inside her jacket. Now she is an avalanche > of sensations. You smell her, you hear the timbre of her voice, > you feel her touch, etc. etc. Notice how that changes everything. > And notice how the label " a woman " becomes relatively unimportant. > > Now zoom in on the suffering like you did on the woman. *Taste* > the suffering, move with the subtle moment-to-moment changes in > the suffering. Experience *every nuance* of the suffering. > In so doing you get past the " label of suffering " into an entire > universe of experience. That was amazing! It became a fractal experience that had no suffering because I had not given the parts any labels yet...:-) > > And notice then that it's " sufferingness " is a function of its > " labelness " ... that it isn't suffering anymore when zoomed in like > that. Yes > > And then notice that it isn't about " solving " some existential > dilemma such as you seem to pose in your account. It is that one > has become " stuck " (for one reason or another) Yes, stuck, and all stuckness or traps are at their heart " resistance " . and once really > going into it, it starts moving again. Not for me, it seems to have just ceased to exist as a problem or stuckness!:-) Oh, I see... lack of stuckness is not movement, it is freedom of choice to move or just sit here with a stupid smile on my face:~} It is once again an > adventure. You are never *there* (in terms of some lofty > spiritual destination). What matters is simply that it keeps moving, > that it is a fascination, an adventure. > Thanks Bill! :-)) Stu > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > I am new to this list. I have been working on other approaches to > " awakening for the past 40 years. These other practices have done > wonders for me in terms of what I can know or experience, but I am no > closer to waking up than I was as a teenager. > > I read a book by Nisargadatta several years ago and worked hard on > sensing what he was trying to teach. > All I accomplished was to become more confused and more polarized. > > The polarization I fell deeper into was " self/no self " . By the time I > finished reading the book I was a " self/no self " monster... > > I came to realize that an ego can't pull himself up off of the ground > by grabbing his feet with his hands and lifting... it doesn't work:-) > > Now I feel that all things: matter, energy, space, time, personality > or ego, finiteness, etc; is what I call " MIND " . > And that the escape door to this MIND does not open from the inside. > It only opens from the outside... > But outside of " MIND " is " NO THINGNESS " , so no one is there to open > any doors... > > I feel that bliss or serenity is also within MIND and is not true > awakening or enlightenment... and that there is no such thing as being > " close " to enlightenment. > > I feel that total absolute (by " absolute " I mean non- dual or > infinite), death of self is not achievable. That an ego can only > achieve or fail to achieve, it can't simply no longer exist because it > is in a state of neither existing nor not existing. > > I see myself as a mirror that is full of images and that I believe > myself to be those images... > > I also feel that... and this is strange... that even though I suffer > the duality of " dukkah " ; that somehow all is as it should be, that all > is ok... but yet I suffer... How can everything be ok if I suffer? > > It is like I am in both states at the same time, on both sides of the > door, awake and asleep! > > So... > Does anyone have any suggestions for me? :-) > > Stu > ** Yes...phone your mother. Oh...and what door? Nice post, Stu. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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