Guest guest Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 In a message dated 5/15/2006 7:42:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes: > The self fashions an elaborate mirror in which it searches for its own > vacuity. > > toombaru > L.E: Too bad it doesn't know that before the journey begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 The self fashions an elaborate mirror in which it searches for its own vacuity. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: The self fashions an elaborate mirror in which it searches for its own > vacuity. > > > toombaru > (until) it fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 > The self fashions an elaborate mirror in which it searches > for its own vacuity. and eventually maybe even fills itself speaking of which, I saw a website where they have the glow-in-the-dark Conumdrums not so ho-hum, those Conumdrums and very self-full-filling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > In a message dated 5/15/2006 7:42:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > lastrain writes: > > > The self fashions an elaborate mirror in which it searches for its own > > vacuity. > > > > toombaru > > > L.E: Too bad it doesn't know that before the journey begins. > It is the journey. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 toombaru2006 <lastrain Nisargadatta Mon, 15 May 2006 23:09:05 -0000 Re: The Ultimate Conumdrum Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > In a message dated 5/15/2006 7:42:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > lastrain writes: > > > The self fashions an elaborate mirror in which it searches for its own > > vacuity. > > > > toombaru > > > L.E: Too bad it doesn't know that before the journey begins. > It is the journey. toombaru L.E: If one never leaves and never returns, how can we call it a journey? ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > > > > toombaru2006 <lastrain > Nisargadatta > Mon, 15 May 2006 23:09:05 -0000 > Re: The Ultimate Conumdrum > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > In a message dated 5/15/2006 7:42:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > The self fashions an elaborate mirror in which it searches for its own > > > vacuity. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > L.E: Too bad it doesn't know that before the journey begins. > > > > It is the journey. > > toombaru > > L.E: If one never leaves and never returns, how can we call it a journey? > > The characters in a movie......or a dream go on journeys...but they never really go anywhere. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > In a message dated 5/15/2006 7:42:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > The self fashions an elaborate mirror in which it searches for its own > > > vacuity. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > L.E: Too bad it doesn't know that before the journey begins. > > > > It is the journey. > > toombaru > > L.E: If one never leaves and never returns, how can we call it a journey? > > The characters in a movie......or a dream go on journeys...but they never really go anywhere. toombaru L.E: What about the characters in a movie who are watching a movie about the characters going on a journey? Do they go anywhere? Have you gone anywhere lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 5/15/2006 7:42:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > > > The self fashions an elaborate mirror in which it searches for > its own > > > > vacuity. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > L.E: Too bad it doesn't know that before the journey begins. > > > > > > > It is the journey. > > > > toombaru > > > > L.E: If one never leaves and never returns, how can we call it a > journey? > > > > > The characters in a movie......or a dream go on journeys...but they > never really go anywhere. > > > > toombaru > > L.E: What about the characters in a movie who are watching a movie about the characters going on a journey? > Do they go anywhere? Have you gone anywhere lately? > I know.........It all seems so real doesn't it? But so did your dreams last night. It all comes unraveled when the physical body dies.....or in some rare persons.........the unraveling can occur before physical death. .............but.........it always comes unraveled. That alone should tell you that it is not real. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2006 <lastrain@> > > Nisargadatta > > Mon, 15 May 2006 23:09:05 -0000 > > Re: The Ultimate Conumdrum > > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 5/15/2006 7:42:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > > > The self fashions an elaborate mirror in which it searches for > its own > > > > vacuity. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > L.E: Too bad it doesn't know that before the journey begins. > > > > > > > It is the journey. > > > > toombaru > > > > L.E: If one never leaves and never returns, how can we call it a > journey? > > > > > > > > The characters in a movie......or a dream go on journeys...but they > never really go anywhere. > > > > toombaru Well, just to follow this mode of teaching through: if there isn't any mind in which the movie can occur, there's no movie either, no characters, no imagining -- not even the illusion of a movie or imagining. -- D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > L.E: What about the characters in a movie who are watching a movie about the characters going on a journey? > Do they go anywhere? Have you gone anywhere lately? Yes, the characters in a movie are watching a movie about the characters in a movie watching a movie, ad infinitum. Or not. The brain cells are imaging a picture of brain cells imaging a picture, ad infinitum ... or not. If not ... Then ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 -- In Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > L.E: What about the characters in a movie who are watching a movie about the characters going on a journey? > Do they go anywhere? Have you gone anywhere lately? Yes, the characters in a movie are watching a movie about the characters in a movie watching a movie, ad infinitum. Or not. The brain cells are imaging a picture of brain cells imaging a picture, ad infinitum ... or not. If not ... Then ... L.E: Is there anyone watching the movie or is the movie watching itself? And, brain cells aren't that stupid. Are we? ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > I know.........It all seems so real doesn't it? > > But so did your dreams last night. > > It all comes unraveled when the physical body dies.....or in some rare > persons.........the unraveling can occur before physical death. > > > > ............but.........it always comes unraveled. > > That alone should tell you that it is not real. > toombaru It is neither real or unreal. In order to be said to be unreal, there would have to be something real. Otherwise the classification " unreal " is meaningless and imparts no information. But once you try to define what is real, the dilemma begins again -- so, neither real nor unreal. And do I really mean this? Hmmm ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > L.E: Is there anyone watching the movie or is the movie watching itself? > And, brain cells aren't that stupid. Are we? Darn brain cells -- always trying to grab the credit ... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2006 <lastrain@> > > > Nisargadatta > > > Mon, 15 May 2006 23:09:05 -0000 > > > Re: The Ultimate Conumdrum > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/15/2006 7:42:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > > > > > The self fashions an elaborate mirror in which it searches for > > its own > > > > > vacuity. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > L.E: Too bad it doesn't know that before the journey begins. > > > > > > > > > > It is the journey. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > L.E: If one never leaves and never returns, how can we call it a > > journey? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The characters in a movie......or a dream go on journeys...but they > > never really go anywhere. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Well, just to follow this mode of teaching through: if there isn't > any mind in which the movie can occur, there's no movie either, no > characters, no imagining -- not even the illusion of a movie or imagining. > > -- D. > .................that doesn't leave me much to hang on to...... :-0 toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > I know.........It all seems so real doesn't it? > > > > But so did your dreams last night. > > > > It all comes unraveled when the physical body dies.....or in some rare > > persons.........the unraveling can occur before physical death. > > > > > > > > ............but.........it always comes unraveled. > > > > That alone should tell you that it is not real. > > toombaru > > It is neither real or unreal. > > In order to be said to be unreal, there would have to be something > real. Otherwise the classification " unreal " is meaningless and > imparts no information. But once you try to define what is real, the > dilemma begins again -- > > so, neither real nor unreal. > > And do I really mean this? > > Hmmm ... > ..............curiouser...........and curiouser.......... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > I know.........It all seems so real doesn't it? > > > > But so did your dreams last night. > > > > It all comes unraveled when the physical body dies.....or in some rare > > persons.........the unraveling can occur before physical death. > > > > ............but.........it always comes unraveled. > > > > That alone should tell you that it is not real. > > toombaru > > It is neither real or unreal. > > In order to be said to be unreal, there would have to be something > real. Otherwise the classification " unreal " is meaningless and > imparts no information. But once you try to define what is real, the > dilemma begins again -- > > so, neither real nor unreal. > > And do I really mean this? > > Hmmm ... > ..............curiouser...........and curiouser.......... L.E:Just because it comes unraveled, that doesn't mean it wasn't real when it was completely raveled. Take a wool sweater for instance. First it is wool and non-raveled, then it becomes a sweater when it is knitted or raveled, then after getting worn out, it can be unraveled back into wool again. So when is it real? It is less real when it is a sweater? Or unreal when it is just wool at the beginning, or is it unreal after it has been a sweater and is now unraveled again after having the experience of being raveled into a sweater. I think the words real and unreal are very relative and don't explain much of anything. Traditional Indian thought says that what changes is unreal and what is permanent and unchanging is the real, but this fall apart at a touch. What is more real, the clay or the pot the clay is made from? Both real, both unreal, neither? Perhaps the wool is only real when it is still hair on the sheep and when touched by humans and thought, becomes relatively unreal. Is there such a thing, concept as relatively unreal, or relatively real? Larry Epston ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I know.........It all seems so real doesn't it? > > > > > > But so did your dreams last night. > > > > > > It all comes unraveled when the physical body dies.....or in some rare > > > persons.........the unraveling can occur before physical death. > > > > > > ............but.........it always comes unraveled. > > > > > > That alone should tell you that it is not real. > > > toombaru > > > > It is neither real or unreal. > > > > In order to be said to be unreal, there would have to be something > > real. Otherwise the classification " unreal " is meaningless and > > imparts no information. But once you try to define what is real, the > > dilemma begins again -- > > > > so, neither real nor unreal. > > > > And do I really mean this? > > > > Hmmm ... > > > .............curiouser...........and curiouser.......... > > > L.E:Just because it comes unraveled, that doesn't mean it wasn't real when it was completely raveled. Take a wool sweater for instance. First it is wool and non-raveled, then it becomes a sweater when it is knitted or raveled, then after getting worn out, it can be unraveled back into wool again. So when is it real? It is less real when it is a sweater? Or unreal when it is just wool at the beginning, or is it unreal after it has been a sweater and is now unraveled again after having the experience of being raveled into a sweater. I think the words real and unreal are very relative and don't explain much of anything. Traditional Indian thought says that what changes is unreal and what is permanent and unchanging is the real, but this fall apart at a touch. What is more real, the clay or the pot the clay is made from? Both real, both unreal, neither? Perhaps the wool is only real when it is still hair on the sheep and when touched by humans and thought, becomes relatively unreal. Is there such a thing, concept as relatively unreal, or relatively real? > > > Larry Epston > > > There is nothing but Reality. Reality is not incomatible with the world of phenomena. The apparent ignorance of this truth is itself the outcome of Reality. There is nothing but Reality. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > ................that doesn't leave me much to hang on to...... > > > > :-0 > > > > > toombaru Watch that last step, it's a d ooooooo zzzy -- D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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