Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a substitute or pretend awakening. One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > substitute or pretend awakening. > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > Stu > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only obstruction to awakening. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > substitute or pretend awakening. > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > Stu > " awakening " ... interesting term as if there *were* such a thing there is only coming to complete honesty and complete honesty is accepting each plain-jane-moment as perfection itself which it is and " accepting " there means... not trying not even wanting to change a thing maybe the plain-jane-moment will be one of oneself wanting to change what is so then accepting that not trying to change even that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > Stu > > > > " awakening " ... > interesting term > > as if there *were* such a thing > > there is only coming to complete honesty > > and complete honesty is accepting each > plain-jane-moment as perfection itself > > which it is > > and " accepting " there means... > not trying > not even wanting > to change a thing > > > maybe the plain-jane-moment will be one > of oneself wanting to change what is > > so then accepting that > not trying to change > even that > If what appears in this moment is a seeking for enlightenment......then that is what is. If what appears in this moment is the attempt to accept what is....then that is what is. If it is seen that there is no one to become awakened or to let go.....then that's what is. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > substitute or pretend awakening. > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > Stu It's an illusion constructed by memory, that there is any such thing as " going back. " Seeing through the illusion, one can use memory, and see that memory plays an important part in our construction of society -- without the belief that one is retreiving from an actual past that has an existence. -- D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and > > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > " awakening " ... > > interesting term > > > > as if there *were* such a thing > > > > there is only coming to complete honesty > > > > and complete honesty is accepting each > > plain-jane-moment as perfection itself > > > > which it is > > > > and " accepting " there means... > > not trying > > not even wanting > > to change a thing > > > > > > maybe the plain-jane-moment will be one > > of oneself wanting to change what is > > > > so then accepting that > > not trying to change > > even that > > > > > > If what appears in this moment is a seeking for > enlightenment......then that is what is. > > > If what appears in this moment is the attempt to accept what > is....then that is what is. > > > If it is seen that there is no one to become awakened or to let > go.....then that's what is. > > > > toombaru " What it is!........ nigga : Rap tune 2005 by Whoyodaddy. .......bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > Stu > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only obstruction to > awakening. > > toombaru > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after things. Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and > > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only obstruction to > > awakening. > > > > toombaru > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after things. > > Stu > That is its nature. Of what concern is that to you? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and > > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only obstruction to > > awakening. > > > > toombaru > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after things. > > Stu can we say then, that " awakening " is a useless notion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > Stu > > It's an illusion constructed by memory, that there is any such thing > as " going back. " Seeing through the illusion, one can use memory, and > see that memory plays an important part in our construction of society > -- without the belief that one is retreiving from an actual past that > has an existence. > -- D. I see what you mean. Psychoanalytic approaches strengthen the comcept of the past being real and powerful, so does religion, patriotism, etc. All are stories. Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and > > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > > > Stu > > > > It's an illusion constructed by memory, that there is any such thing > > as " going back. " Seeing through the illusion, one can use memory, and > > see that memory plays an important part in our construction of society > > -- without the belief that one is retreiving from an actual past that > > has an existence. > > -- D. > > I see what you mean. > Psychoanalytic approaches strengthen the comcept of the past being > real and powerful, so does religion, patriotism, etc. > All are stories. > > Stu Well, you could use a psychoanalytic approach in a way that recognizes that the past will be important to a person to the extent that feelings, memories, images related to the past are disowned, denied, and pushed away. The more I push it away, the more " real " it is in terms of being carried and affecting me presently. If it's understood and integrated, one doesn't have to push it away, and the feeling is no longer occurring of a weight being carried, or a series of emotional responses being triggered over and over. None of this means an actually existing past is being referenced by memory. It's just a conditioned pattern of responses, associated with brain and body functioning (all of which is actually " present " as it's occurring). -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > > > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and > > > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > > > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only obstruction to > > > awakening. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after things. > > > > Stu > > can we say then, that " awakening " is a useless notion? Indeed we can. Along with the assumption of a separate self comes a primal yearning for completion....an innate sense that something isn't quit right. This unrest stimulates a seeking.....that can never be fulfilled. That which is sought is conceptualized into the object 'awakening'. The content of consciousness searches within the content of consciousness for consciousness itself. No one here.......or anywhere.... can tell what awakening actually is.....simply because there is no such thing. No one is asleep.......no one can awaken. There is, however. an understanding that sees through this ancient drama and allows an opening up into a natural realm of which the sages speak....or attempt to speak. But they are hampered by the very same conceptual constructs that causes the illusion of separation in the first place. This usually only exascerbates the 'problem' and sends the seekers..... inividually or en mass.... off into a mimicking behavior in a futile attempt to become that which they always have been. It is the seeking that creates the sought. See that..........and the known world begins to break apart......and just a little under the conceptual overlay........is the Home that you have been dreaming of lo these many years. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > > > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it back, and > > > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > > > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only obstruction to > > > awakening. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after things. > > > > Stu > > > > > That is its nature. > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > toombaru > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be free from pain and suffering... Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > > > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > > > > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > > > > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it > back, and > > > > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > > > > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > > > > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only obstruction to > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after things. > > > > > > Stu > > > > can we say then, that " awakening " is a useless notion? Indeed we can. > > Along with the assumption of a separate self comes a primal yearning > for completion....an innate sense that something isn't quit right. > > This unrest stimulates a seeking.....that can never be fulfilled. > > That which is sought is conceptualized into the object 'awakening'. > > The content of consciousness searches within the content of > consciousness for consciousness itself. > > No one here.......or anywhere.... can tell what awakening actually > is.....simply because there is no such thing. > > No one is asleep.......no one can awaken. > > There is, however. an understanding that sees through this ancient > drama and allows an opening up into a natural realm of which the sages > speak....or attempt to speak. > > But they are hampered by the very same conceptual constructs that > causes the illusion of separation in the first place. > > This usually only exascerbates the 'problem' and sends the > seekers..... inividually or en mass.... off into a mimicking behavior > in a futile attempt to become that which they always have been. > > > > It is the seeking that creates the sought. > > > > See that..........and the known world begins to break apart......and > just a little under the conceptual overlay........is the Home that you > have been dreaming of lo these many years. > > > toombaru > That was Beautiful!:-)) Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > > > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last a few > > > > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > > > > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it > back, and > > > > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " as a > > > > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > > > > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only obstruction to > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after things. > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > toombaru > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be free from pain and > suffering... > > Stu > the roar of a true lion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > > > > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that last > a few > > > > > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > > > > > > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it > > back, and > > > > > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " or " label " > as a > > > > > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only > obstruction to > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after things. > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be free from pain and > > suffering... > > > > Stu > > > > the roar of a true lion > ....erase all concerns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> > wrote: > > > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " > <stuartkfmn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > > > > > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that > last > > a few > > > > > > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it > > > back, and > > > > > > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " > or " label " > > as a > > > > > > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only > > obstruction to > > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after things. > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be free from pain > and > > > suffering... > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > the roar of a true lion > > > > ...erase all concerns! > but the concerns are as thorns in the lion's paw... how to *erase*? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " > > <stuartkfmn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > > > > > > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that > > last > > > a few > > > > > > > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it > > > > back, and > > > > > > > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " > > or " label " > > > as a > > > > > > > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only > > > obstruction to > > > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after things. > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be free from pain > > and > > > > suffering... > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > the roar of a true lion > > > > > > > ...erase all concerns! > > > > but the concerns are as thorns in the lion's paw... > > how to *erase*? AH! by killing the lion of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 <snip> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only > > > > obstruction to > > > > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after > things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be free from > pain > > > and > > > > > suffering... > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > the roar of a true lion > > > > > > > > > > ...erase all concerns! > > > > > > > but the concerns are as thorns in the lion's paw... > > > > how to *erase*? > > AH! > by killing the lion of course > and who is to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only > > > > > obstruction to > > > > > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after > > things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be free from > > pain > > > > and > > > > > > suffering... > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the roar of a true lion > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...erase all concerns! > > > > > > > > > > but the concerns are as thorns in the lion's paw... > > > > > > how to *erase*? > > > > AH! > > by killing the lion of course > > > > and who is to do that? > the one who is concerned about lion's suffering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the > only > > > > > > obstruction to > > > > > > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after > > > things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be free > from > > > pain > > > > > and > > > > > > > suffering... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the roar of a true lion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...erase all concerns! > > > > > > > > > > > > > but the concerns are as thorns in the lion's paw... > > > > > > > > how to *erase*? > > > > > > AH! > > > by killing the lion of course > > > > > > > and who is to do that? > > > > the one who is concerned about lion's suffering so to " erase the concerns " means to kill the lion? or to erase concerns about the suffering of mankind is to kill mankind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the > > only > > > > > > > obstruction to > > > > > > > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after > > > > things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be free > > from > > > > pain > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > suffering... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the roar of a true lion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...erase all concerns! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but the concerns are as thorns in the lion's paw... > > > > > > > > > > how to *erase*? > > > > > > > > AH! > > > > by killing the lion of course > > > > > > > > > > and who is to do that? > > > > > > > the one who is concerned about lion's suffering > > so to " erase the concerns " means to kill the lion? > > or to erase concerns about the suffering of mankind > is to kill mankind? you are in the savana thinking about or also feeling the suffering of mankind ...suddenly the roar of a TRUE lion in fron of you. no more concerns LOL > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is > the > > > only > > > > > > > > obstruction to > > > > > > > > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks > after > > > > > things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be free > > > from > > > > > pain > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > suffering... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the roar of a true lion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...erase all concerns! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but the concerns are as thorns in the lion's paw... > > > > > > > > > > > > how to *erase*? > > > > > > > > > > AH! > > > > > by killing the lion of course > > > > > > > > > > > > > and who is to do that? > > > > > > > > > > the one who is concerned about lion's suffering > > > > so to " erase the concerns " means to kill the lion? > > > > or to erase concerns about the suffering of mankind > > is to kill mankind? > > you are in the savana thinking about or also feeling the suffering > of mankind ...suddenly the roar of a TRUE lion in fron of you. > no more concerns LOL only the particular concerns have changed... from those of mankind to that of oneself in the face of the lion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is > > the > > > > only > > > > > > > > > obstruction to > > > > > > > > > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks > > after > > > > > > things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be > free > > > > from > > > > > > pain > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > suffering... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the roar of a true lion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...erase all concerns! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but the concerns are as thorns in the lion's paw... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how to *erase*? > > > > > > > > > > > > AH! > > > > > > by killing the lion of course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and who is to do that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > the one who is concerned about lion's suffering > > > > > > so to " erase the concerns " means to kill the lion? > > > > > > or to erase concerns about the suffering of mankind > > > is to kill mankind? > > > > you are in the savana thinking about or also feeling the suffering > > of mankind ...suddenly the roar of a TRUE lion in fron of you. > > no more concerns LOL > > only the particular concerns have changed... > from those of mankind to that of oneself in the face of the lion. > yes, concern is always about something particular in the moment the particular changes, no concern is found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become > awakened.....is > > > the > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > obstruction to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego > seeks > > > after > > > > > > > things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be > > free > > > > > from > > > > > > > pain > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > suffering... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the roar of a true lion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...erase all concerns! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but the concerns are as thorns in the lion's paw... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how to *erase*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AH! > > > > > > > by killing the lion of course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and who is to do that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the one who is concerned about lion's suffering > > > > > > > > so to " erase the concerns " means to kill the lion? > > > > > > > > or to erase concerns about the suffering of mankind > > > > is to kill mankind? > > > > > > you are in the savana thinking about or also feeling the > suffering > > > of mankind ...suddenly the roar of a TRUE lion in fron of you. > > > no more concerns LOL > > > > only the particular concerns have changed... > > from those of mankind to that of oneself in the face of the lion. > > > > yes, concern is always about something particular > in the moment the particular changes, no concern is found > ahhh... so notice... the " object of concern " is always, in reality, a *symbol*. [i.e. in getting *past* the symbol the concern always breaks down.] And this means that the concern is a *rule*, a pattern. And since the rule activates biological changes (increased blood pressure, increase state of vigilance etc.), the rule is in effect a *program*. So a concern is an " installed program " . And *that* means that the direct means to clarity is to deactivate the program, which may or may not involve rationalizations such as, " There is no need to be concerned because... " , etc. does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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