Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <illusyn@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become > > awakened.....is > > > > the > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > obstruction to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego > > seeks > > > > after > > > > > > > > things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to > be > > > free > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > pain > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the roar of a true lion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...erase all concerns! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but the concerns are as thorns in the lion's paw... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how to *erase*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AH! > > > > > > > > by killing the lion of course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and who is to do that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the one who is concerned about lion's suffering > > > > > > > > > > so to " erase the concerns " means to kill the lion? > > > > > > > > > > or to erase concerns about the suffering of mankind > > > > > is to kill mankind? > > > > > > > > you are in the savana thinking about or also feeling the > > suffering > > > > of mankind ...suddenly the roar of a TRUE lion in fron of you. > > > > no more concerns LOL > > > > > > only the particular concerns have changed... > > > from those of mankind to that of oneself in the face of the lion. > > > > > > > yes, concern is always about something particular > > in the moment the particular changes, no concern is found > > > > ahhh... so notice... > the " object of concern " is always, in reality, > a *symbol*. [i.e. in getting *past* the symbol > the concern always breaks down.] > > And this means that the concern is a *rule*, > a pattern. > > And since the rule activates biological changes > (increased blood pressure, increase state of > vigilance etc.), the rule is in effect a > *program*. > > So a concern is an " installed program " . > > And *that* means that the direct means to clarity > is to deactivate the program, which may or may not > involve rationalizations such as, " There is no need > to be concerned because... " , etc. > > > does that make sense? > yes, it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " > > <stuartkfmn@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waking up is an exasperating experience for me. > > > > > > > > I have had many near waking ascension experiences that > > last > > > a few > > > > > > > > minutes, but they are not real or they would be permanent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After each one of these experiences end, I try to bring it > > > > back, and > > > > > > > > it seems that what I bring back is only a " story " > > or " label " > > > as a > > > > > > > > substitute or pretend awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One can't go back in memory to reach awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become awakened.....is the only > > > obstruction to > > > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego seeks after things. > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to be free from pain > > and > > > > suffering... > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > the roar of a true lion > > > > > > > ...erase all concerns! > > > > but the concerns are as thorns in the lion's paw... > > how to *erase*? > Concerns can often be erased by spotting not the thing concerned about but rather holding one's attention on the level or degree of stuckness or solidification one is at in regards to the concern. IOW, am I just mildly " curious " about it? or am I a little lower at " desire " , or even lower at being the object of my concern in a very solid way. This can sometimes end the problem... but at a high price, for as toombaru has said: : " It is the seeking that creates the sought. " Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The one attempting to become > > > awakened.....is > > > > > the > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > obstruction to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > awakening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that is the catch 22. Only the ego > > > seeks > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is its nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of what concern is that to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The concern to me is that I as an ego seek to > > be > > > > free > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > pain > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffering... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the roar of a true lion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...erase all concerns! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but the concerns are as thorns in the lion's paw... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how to *erase*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AH! > > > > > > > > > by killing the lion of course > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and who is to do that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the one who is concerned about lion's suffering > > > > > > > > > > > > so to " erase the concerns " means to kill the lion? > > > > > > > > > > > > or to erase concerns about the suffering of mankind > > > > > > is to kill mankind? > > > > > > > > > > you are in the savana thinking about or also feeling the > > > suffering > > > > > of mankind ...suddenly the roar of a TRUE lion in fron of you. > > > > > no more concerns LOL > > > > > > > > only the particular concerns have changed... > > > > from those of mankind to that of oneself in the face of the > lion. > > > > > > > > > > yes, concern is always about something particular > > > in the moment the particular changes, no concern is found > > > > > > > ahhh... so notice... > > the " object of concern " is always, in reality, > > a *symbol*. [i.e. in getting *past* the symbol > > the concern always breaks down.] > > > > And this means that the concern is a *rule*, > > a pattern. > > > > And since the rule activates biological changes > > (increased blood pressure, increase state of > > vigilance etc.), the rule is in effect a > > *program*. > > > > So a concern is an " installed program " . > > > > And *that* means that the direct means to clarity > > is to deactivate the program, which may or may not > > involve rationalizations such as, " There is no need > > to be concerned because... " , etc. > > > > > > does that make sense? > > > > yes, it does. > But isn't the one that tries to deactivate the program, considered by the program to have no authorization, no password? Isn't he or she blocked by a firewall? :-) The door is locked from the inside and there is no outside:-) There is no outside because there are no labels there... Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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