Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Byron Katie is one of my favorite teachers. She teaches a very powerful method of thought inquiry called *work*! This method involves questioning thoughts to 'reveal' often 'non existing' realities behind a thought. This method is very effective in dissolving many stressful thoughts and in ensuring peace and harmony. < http://www.thework.com/ > < http://health.Doing-The-Work/ > < http://health.Loving-what-is/> However, my experience with " doing the work " is that it must involve following: - Full Attention to the Present Moment! - Clearly and Completely seeing of what you " feel " at this Moment! - Clearly seeing of what you are thinking at this Moment! In my experience, true inquiry can not happen until the " feeling " ; the " resistance " to the present moment is gone. This resistance [in every situation that I am aware of] is felt in the body. Full Attention dissolves this resistance. But, until this resistance [feeling] is gone... it keeps pulling attention towards itself like a throbbing wound. Partial attention [that it automatically pulls] keeps it alive; with full attention it is clearly seen and gets dissolved. This resistance [fragmented feeling] comes due to many reasons including Lack of Clarity [not clearly knowing " what " , " why " , " how " of " what to do " in the Present Moment]. Yet, once this resistance has arisen the best thing is to pay full attention to it and see it clearly. Until that has happened mere mental inquiry doesn't work as it stays on the surface but this feeling runs deep underneath! But, with Full Attention... not only 'inquiry' becomes possible; sometimes, the need for inquiry itself is gone as what was previously 'felt' as 'unease' gets transmuted by the Full Attention into Peace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 [...] > My experience with " doing the work " > is that it must involve following: > > - Full Attention to the Present > Moment! > > - Clearly and Completely seeing of what > you " feel " at this Moment! > > - Clearly seeing of what you are thinking > at this Moment! > > > In my experience, true inquiry can not > happen until the " feeling " ; the > " resistance " to the present moment is > gone. This resistance [in every > situation that I am aware of] is felt > in the body. > > Full Attention dissolves this > resistance. But, until this resistance > [feeling] is gone... it keeps pulling > attention towards itself like a > throbbing wound. [...] > > But, with Full Attention... not only > 'inquiry' becomes possible; sometimes, > the need for inquiry itself is gone as > what was previously 'felt' as 'unease' > gets transmuted by the Full Attention > into Peace! > However, in the situations where 'inquiry' is found necessary or useful; it is extremely useful to: - Focus on yourself. - Focus on what you value Most - Focus on what you can truly know. - Focus on what you can truly do. I have found that focusing on " others " and thinking what " others " should do or should not do, what they should or shouldn't think/say... doesn't really work. Even true inquiry can not happen in these situations as it based on a blatant lie. We lack any real control and knowledge of what others should think/do/say and any effort do so leads to a painful 'karmic' cycle no matter how much we 'work' on it! In addition, when inquiring " thoughts " ; it is very important to separate out the REAL thought from numerous superficial surface thoughts that are simply the outgrowth of few [and in some situations just One] CORE thoughts. Until that Root thought is clearly identified, questioned and understood " working " on secondary thoughts remains an endless cycle as the same root thought keeps giving birth to many new incarnations. It is only after we reach this root thought and see it clearly that the inquiry becomes really effective in cutting the 'pain cycle'! Until we do that new [stressful] thoughts originating from this root thought keep on offshooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > Byron Katie is one of my favorite > > teachers. She teaches a very powerful > > method of thought inquiry called > > *work*! This method involves > > questioning thoughts to 'reveal' often > > 'non existing' realities behind a > > thought. This method is very effective > > in dissolving many stressful thoughts > > and in ensuring peace and harmony. > > > > < http://www.thework.com/ > > > > > < http://health.Doing-The-Work/ > > > > > < http://health.Loving-what-is/> > > > > > > Before Ms. Katie was a gleam in her daddy's eye there was a fella > named Gurdjieff..... and he had a whole crew of folks, not the least > of whom was a gentleman named Ouspensky... and even today around the > globe there are people who practice a method initiated and expoused > by those fellows called " the Work " .....check them out. Do you think " the Work " taught by Gurdjieff/ Ouspensky same/similar as the one taught by Katie? I have read some of Gurdjieff that few folks posted on an email group but, I have never read Ouspensky. Would you like to post some of your favorite Ouspensky? I would love to read it. > You can spend > a lifetime " observing " yourself. No matter what I do... I will have to spend a " lifetime " anyway; don't you think so? > Ah...does Ms. Byron ever give credit > where credit is due? I don't know. As far as I know, she thinks her " work " is different than that taught by G/O. > She is a 'looker;' though. She sure is. I have met her once. I asked her: How will I know if I am free or not? and, she replied: Goss, I don't know if I am free. When I am free, I am. When I am not free, I am not. And, I was greatly impressed by her answer. > I like her new > hairstyle. I'm sure ashe 'worked' on it as well. You might be right. I have read that she got plastic surgery done. > > ............bob > Love, ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Hello ac......I think a lot of the ideas on 'Observing self' in order to 'stop " and 'recollect' and see, are most definetly from the early Moscow group of Gurdjieff and the further explications and refinings of Ouspensky. By the time of the Paris groupings after the time in the Caucas; and, after the idle super rich began to attach themselves to the 'Work' and ideas of 'finding' themselves and the 'meanings', things started to develop a little...no..a lot differently; and, that the original 'spark' of the 'Madman' had become obscured or overlayed with way too much superficial and commercial nonsense. I've read some of Byron and I do find her interesting....but 'commercial', and when I get that sense of things, I begin to feel uncomfortable. That's my sole objection to her offerings. But for those who can get beyond that, and I'm probably just being overly suspicious, but as said, for those who can get beyond it, I'm sure it's a viable method of self discovery. At some point I will post some of the more obscure workings of the early Gurd. and Ousp. (although the latter got way to techie for my tastes). But None of it really resonates in this somatic creature so whenever I do, it will be limited. I'd as soon post some material on Reich's work. Have you ever delved into that 'Orgasmatronic' stuff? Poor fella got himself imprisoned for some of his work. But he created a cult following among jet setters and Hollywood types that can still be found. P.S. so you met her? If you see her again please tell her...she's a knockout no matter what. ...........bob (nnb) Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > Byron Katie is one of my favorite > > > teachers. She teaches a very powerful > > > method of thought inquiry called > > > *work*! This method involves > > > questioning thoughts to 'reveal' often > > > 'non existing' realities behind a > > > thought. This method is very effective > > > in dissolving many stressful thoughts > > > and in ensuring peace and harmony. > > > > > > < http://www.thework.com/ > > > > > > > < http://health.Doing-The-Work/ > > > > > > > < http://health.Loving-what-is/> > > > > > > > > > > > > Before Ms. Katie was a gleam in her daddy's eye there was a fella > > named Gurdjieff..... and he had a whole crew of folks, not the > least > > of whom was a gentleman named Ouspensky... and even today around > the > > globe there are people who practice a method initiated and > expoused > > by those fellows called " the Work " .....check them out. > > > Do you think " the Work " taught by Gurdjieff/ Ouspensky > same/similar as the one taught by Katie? > > I have read some of Gurdjieff that few folks posted > on an email group but, I have never read Ouspensky. > > Would you like to post some of your favorite > Ouspensky? > > I would love to read it. > > > > > You can spend > > a lifetime " observing " yourself. > > No matter what I do... > > I will have to spend a " lifetime " anyway; > don't you think so? > > > > Ah...does Ms. Byron ever give credit > > where credit is due? > > I don't know. As far as I know, she thinks her > " work " is different than that taught by G/O. > > > > She is a 'looker;' though. > > She sure is. > > I have met her once. > > I asked her: > > How will I know if I am free or not? > > and, she replied: > > Goss, I don't know if I am free. When I am > free, I am. When I am not free, I am not. > > > And, I was greatly impressed by her answer. > > > > > > I like her new > > hairstyle. I'm sure ashe 'worked' on it as well. > > You might be right. > > I have read that she got plastic surgery done. > > > > > ............bob > > > > Love, > ac. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 > > [...] > > > My experience with " doing the work " > > is that it must involve following: > > > > - Full Attention to the Present > > Moment! > > > > - Clearly and Completely seeing of what > > you " feel " at this Moment! > > > > - Clearly seeing of what you are thinking > > at this Moment! I discovered that in order to truly investigate my stressful thought, first I need to get unstressed! I discovered that I can not get unstressed by resisting my stress. I discovered that I can not get unstressed by trying to escape my stress. I discovered that I can get unstressed by Fully Accepting " what I feel " at this moment! My way of accepting did not involve saying a 'mental' yes to it... my way of " accepting " was to give it my Complete Undivided Attention! My way of acceptance was my Full focused, dedicated, unhindered approach to See it... I noticed that in those moments, I had a child like curiosity and in a way, I was " looking forward to " see this stress, this feeling... I TRULY wanted to see and understand it... In a way, my approach to it was " loving " ... In a way, I was glad that this stress was there so that now, I can truly see it... I noticed whenever I gave it my Complete Attention, it usually disappeared! In a way, it was just like " thoughts " ... when I resisted, it persisted... when I tried to escape it, it seemed to chase me down... When I tried looking into it... eye to eye... when I tried to truly see it... it disappeared! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 Yet... I also noticed that my first* " impulse " in response to an arising 'stress' was to... " run away " ... To try to escape it... to try to " not feel " how it feels... And, my second response was to 'ask' - why this feeling is there - where this feeling came from I noticed that neither** of these really removed my stress. In fact, they only made it worse and made it last longer. I noticed that in order to look at my feeling in a SANE way, one that involves Complete Presence and Full Acceptance and one that results in release of these feelings - I needed to be vigilant and I needed Conscious Practice. ---- PS: * I didn't know why my 'conditioned' [or built-in, automatic, natural?] response to these feelings were to escape or complain. I didn't know whether it was just a normal and prevalent human condition or if it was something that was in genes and or if it was a response 'conditioned' by many years of social experience. I did notice that when I acted in this way, people around me said, it was *normal* to act this way in these situations and they 'dealt' with it this way too. Surprisingly thing was that acting this way kept these feelings and mechanism producing it in place! But, when I saw this 'mode' of 'acting' of escape and complain in many children too - I thought, perhaps, this is not just 'social conditioning'. Maybe, prevalent human evolution is truly at this level and to go beyond it requires Conscious growth on our part. **.My third " impulse " was to do something else, to think something else... to imagine something else. And, doing that did mean that I " forgot " about this stress for a while. But, they only served as an escape route and never really resolved any stressful feeling. In many cases, such " escapes " made situation much worse by delaying its resolution! > > [...] > > > > > My experience with " doing the work " > > > is that it must involve following: > > > > > > - Full Attention to the Present > > > Moment! > > > > > > - Clearly and Completely seeing of what > > > you " feel " at this Moment! > > > > > > - Clearly seeing of what you are thinking > > > at this Moment! > > > I discovered that in order to truly > investigate my stressful thought, first > I need to get unstressed! > > I discovered that I can not get > unstressed by resisting my stress. > > I discovered that I can not get > unstressed by trying to escape my stress. > > > I discovered that I can get unstressed > by Fully Accepting " what I feel " at > this moment! > > My way of accepting did not involve > saying a 'mental' yes to it... > > my way of " accepting " was to give it > my Complete Undivided Attention! > > My way of acceptance was my Full > focused, dedicated, unhindered approach > to See it... > > > I noticed that in those moments, I had > a child like curiosity and in a way, I > was " looking forward to " see this > stress, this feeling... > > I TRULY wanted to see and understand it... > > In a way, my approach to it was > " loving " ... > > In a way, I was glad that this stress > was there so that now, I can truly see it... > > > > I noticed whenever I gave it my > Complete Attention, it usually > disappeared! > > > In a way, it was just like " thoughts " ... > > when I resisted, it persisted... > > > when I tried to escape it, it seemed > to chase me down... > > > When I tried looking into it... eye to eye... > when I tried to truly see it... > > it disappeared! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 [...] > > > > In a way, it was just like " thoughts " ... > > > > when I resisted, it persisted... > > > > > > when I tried to escape it, it seemed > > to chase me down... > > > > > > When I tried looking into it... eye to eye... > > when I tried to truly see it... > > > > it disappeared! It seemed as if each feeling, each thought was acting like my innocent child " crying " for my loving attention. When I tried to avoid or ignore it, it cried even more to pull my attention. But, when I gave it my complete, unconditional, undivided attention, the attention that was of full acceptance, the attention that was of love, attention that said... I am so glad you are here, I love you so much - the child became calm, its cries subsided. Once I fully accepted my child and held it in my loving embrace close to my heart; love is the only feeling that lingered. Similarity, I noticed that when my approach to innocent thoughts and feeling too became of unconditional love and acceptance, my thoughts too soon became loving and peaceful. And, some times, I kept waiting with loving eves and eager heart for the thoughts to appear. But, there were not any... And, I was left with LOVE only... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 Ciao Adithya, Thank you for sharing your experience of doing the work. I'm also a fan of B Katie and the Work. It seems your experience is much like mine, perhaps it's the universal experience of doing inquiry. I'm curious, how has the Work changed your " sense of self " , your life style and purpose in life? Peace Mats Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > > > > > > In a way, it was just like " thoughts " ... > > > > > > when I resisted, it persisted... > > > > > > > > > when I tried to escape it, it seemed > > > to chase me down... > > > > > > > > > When I tried looking into it... eye to eye... > > > when I tried to truly see it... > > > > > > it disappeared! > > > It seemed as if each feeling, each > thought was acting like my innocent > child " crying " for my loving attention. > When I tried to avoid or ignore it, it > cried even more to pull my attention. > > But, when I gave it my complete, > unconditional, undivided attention, the > attention that was of full acceptance, > the attention that was of love, > attention that said... I am so glad you > are here, I love you so much - the > child became calm, its cries subsided. > > Once I fully accepted my child and > held it in my loving embrace close to > my heart; love is the only feeling that > lingered. > > Similarity, I noticed that when my > approach to innocent thoughts and > feeling too became of unconditional > love and acceptance, my thoughts too > soon became loving and peaceful. > > > And, some times, I kept waiting with > loving eves and eager heart for the > thoughts to appear. But, there were not > any... > > > > And, I was left with LOVE only... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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