Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 much talk about emptiness almost none about fullness yet emptiness and fullness are the same so why the emphasis on emptiness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > > > much talk about emptiness > almost none about fullness > > yet emptiness and fullness are the same > > so why the emphasis on emptiness? empty of what? full of what? (don't answer that!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > > > much talk about emptiness > almost none about fullness > > yet emptiness and fullness are the same > > so why the emphasis on emptiness? emptyness is not the same as fullness.... if your heart would be filled up with endless love....for All.... then, maybe, you would have a chance to empty your remaining ego.... what you try out....seem so......is to mixe up by the " fullest " ....your personal " experiences " ......with the Absolut (emptyness).... you can't reach This....by endless words......by ignoring the " fullness " of " all in all " ..... be yourSelf......means, this your described Peace...... then there is perfectly emptyness....to enjoy the movie.....by the fullest..... Marc Ps: it's impossible to enter in the movie during the time your are sitting There.....as a peaceful spectator..... you need to have a choice.....which " role " there is....to play.....at the right moment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > much talk about emptiness > > almost none about fullness > > > > yet emptiness and fullness are the same > > > > so why the emphasis on emptiness? > > > > emptyness is not the same as fullness.... > > if your heart would be filled up with endless love....for All.... > then, maybe, you would have a chance to empty your remaining ego.... > > what you try out....seem so......is to mixe up by the " fullest " ....your > personal " experiences " ......with the Absolut (emptyness).... > > you can't reach This....by endless words......by ignoring > the " fullness " of " all in all " ..... > > be yourSelf......means, this your described Peace...... > > then there is perfectly emptyness....to enjoy the movie.....by the > fullest..... > > Marc > > > Ps: it's impossible to enter in the movie during the time your are > sitting There.....as a peaceful spectator..... > > you need to have a choice.....which " role " there is....to play.....at > the right moment.... > that there is a movie going on is a particular way of experiencing. it is not the only way. ever seen a time-lapse film of a flower expanding? it can also seem like that. it can also seem like nothing is happening at all, even though on the surface much may appear to happen. the possibilities are apparently endless. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > much talk about emptiness > > > almost none about fullness > > > > > > yet emptiness and fullness are the same > > > > > > so why the emphasis on emptiness? > > > > > > > > emptyness is not the same as fullness.... > > > > if your heart would be filled up with endless love....for All.... > > then, maybe, you would have a chance to empty your remaining ego.... > > > > what you try out....seem so......is to mixe up by > the " fullest " ....your > > personal " experiences " ......with the Absolut (emptyness).... > > > > you can't reach This....by endless words......by ignoring > > the " fullness " of " all in all " ..... > > > > be yourSelf......means, this your described Peace...... > > > > then there is perfectly emptyness....to enjoy the movie.....by the > > fullest..... > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: it's impossible to enter in the movie during the time your are > > sitting There.....as a peaceful spectator..... > > > > you need to have a choice.....which " role " there is....to > play.....at > > the right moment.... > > > > that there is a movie going on is a particular way of experiencing. > it is not the only way. > > ever seen a time-lapse film of a flower expanding? > > it can also seem like that. > > it can also seem like nothing is happening at all, > even though on the surface much may appear to happen. > > the possibilities are apparently endless. > > > Bill yes.....infinite number of possibilities ....for a working mind.... the " creation " is without end.....for a working mind..... and so the....the " destruction " is without end.....for a working mind.... what some people seem to follow....is to pretend that they are involved into the " creations " .....that they feel to " create " something.....whatever......(including wonderful theories and concepts.....) some are even preacing without end.... some travel around the world ...just like they feel to tell everybody that they have something (in the mind)....to " create " .... .....but all this happen....with ignorance of the " destructive " side.....all this " creations " are involved also...... as we told yesterday...... the mind fools around.....as long there is no Silence Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > much talk about emptiness > > > > almost none about fullness > > > > > > > > yet emptiness and fullness are the same > > > > > > > > so why the emphasis on emptiness? > > > > > > > > > > > > emptyness is not the same as fullness.... > > > > > > if your heart would be filled up with endless love....for All.... > > > then, maybe, you would have a chance to empty your remaining > ego.... > > > > > > what you try out....seem so......is to mixe up by > > the " fullest " ....your > > > personal " experiences " ......with the Absolut (emptyness).... > > > > > > you can't reach This....by endless words......by ignoring > > > the " fullness " of " all in all " ..... > > > > > > be yourSelf......means, this your described Peace...... > > > > > > then there is perfectly emptyness....to enjoy the movie.....by > the > > > fullest..... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > Ps: it's impossible to enter in the movie during the time your > are > > > sitting There.....as a peaceful spectator..... > > > > > > you need to have a choice.....which " role " there is....to > > play.....at > > > the right moment.... > > > > > > > that there is a movie going on is a particular way of experiencing. > > it is not the only way. > > > > ever seen a time-lapse film of a flower expanding? > > > > it can also seem like that. > > > > it can also seem like nothing is happening at all, > > even though on the surface much may appear to happen. > > > > the possibilities are apparently endless. > > > > > > Bill > > > yes.....infinite number of possibilities ....for a working mind.... > > the " creation " is without end.....for a working mind..... > > and so the....the " destruction " is without end.....for a working > mind.... > > what some people seem to follow....is to pretend that they are > involved into the " creations " .....that they feel to " create " > something.....whatever......(including wonderful theories and > concepts.....) > some are even preacing without end.... > some travel around the world ...just like they feel to tell everybody > that they have something (in the mind)....to " create " .... > > ....but all this happen....with ignorance of the " destructive " > side.....all this " creations " are involved also...... > > > as we told yesterday...... > the mind fools around.....as long there is no Silence > > Marc > the Silence gives a " distance " from which the unfolding patternings can be beheld as simply " cloud stuff " ... from the standpoint of Silence the unfolding patternings are recognized as inherently unreal. the Silence is real. the dreaming is not. [note: there can be imaginary " Silence " 's in the dreaming.] eventually the Silence takes on a dynamic quality, but initially it serves to simply liberate from the bondage of belief in the dreaming process as real. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > much talk about emptiness > > > > > almost none about fullness > > > > > > > > > > yet emptiness and fullness are the same > > > > > > > > > > so why the emphasis on emptiness? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > emptyness is not the same as fullness.... > > > > > > > > if your heart would be filled up with endless love....for > All.... > > > > then, maybe, you would have a chance to empty your remaining > > ego.... > > > > > > > > what you try out....seem so......is to mixe up by > > > the " fullest " ....your > > > > personal " experiences " ......with the Absolut (emptyness).... > > > > > > > > you can't reach This....by endless words......by ignoring > > > > the " fullness " of " all in all " ..... > > > > > > > > be yourSelf......means, this your described Peace...... > > > > > > > > then there is perfectly emptyness....to enjoy the movie.....by > > the > > > > fullest..... > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Ps: it's impossible to enter in the movie during the time your > > are > > > > sitting There.....as a peaceful spectator..... > > > > > > > > you need to have a choice.....which " role " there is....to > > > play.....at > > > > the right moment.... > > > > > > > > > > that there is a movie going on is a particular way of > experiencing. > > > it is not the only way. > > > > > > ever seen a time-lapse film of a flower expanding? > > > > > > it can also seem like that. > > > > > > it can also seem like nothing is happening at all, > > > even though on the surface much may appear to happen. > > > > > > the possibilities are apparently endless. > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > yes.....infinite number of possibilities ....for a working mind.... > > > > the " creation " is without end.....for a working mind..... > > > > and so the....the " destruction " is without end.....for a working > > mind.... > > > > what some people seem to follow....is to pretend that they are > > involved into the " creations " .....that they feel to " create " > > something.....whatever......(including wonderful theories and > > concepts.....) > > some are even preacing without end.... > > some travel around the world ...just like they feel to tell > everybody > > that they have something (in the mind)....to " create " .... > > > > ....but all this happen....with ignorance of the " destructive " > > side.....all this " creations " are involved also...... > > > > > > as we told yesterday...... > > the mind fools around.....as long there is no Silence > > > > Marc > > > > the Silence gives a " distance " from which the unfolding > patternings can be beheld as simply " cloud stuff " ... > > from the standpoint of Silence the unfolding patternings > are recognized as inherently unreal. > > the Silence is real. > the dreaming is not. > > [note: there can be imaginary " Silence " 's in the dreaming.] > > eventually the Silence takes on a dynamic quality, > but initially it serves to simply liberate from the > bondage of belief in the dreaming process as real. > > > Bill agree with your words..... it seem that you make a clear difference between " Silence " and " dreaming.. " there can only be " Silence " when there is no " dreaming " ....yes the " silence " that you describe , i think, can't be imaginary " silence's in the dreaming " ..... " silence " wake up ....from " dreaming " ....to " being " .... in " Silence " .....everything is present....here and now Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 <snip> > > > > > > yes.....infinite number of possibilities ....for a working > mind.... > > > > > > the " creation " is without end.....for a working mind..... > > > > > > and so the....the " destruction " is without end.....for a working > > > mind.... > > > > > > what some people seem to follow....is to pretend that they are > > > involved into the " creations " .....that they feel to " create " > > > something.....whatever......(including wonderful theories and > > > concepts.....) > > > some are even preacing without end.... > > > some travel around the world ...just like they feel to tell > > everybody > > > that they have something (in the mind)....to " create " .... > > > > > > ....but all this happen....with ignorance of the " destructive " > > > side.....all this " creations " are involved also...... > > > > > > > > > as we told yesterday...... > > > the mind fools around.....as long there is no Silence > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > the Silence gives a " distance " from which the unfolding > > patternings can be beheld as simply " cloud stuff " ... > > > > from the standpoint of Silence the unfolding patternings > > are recognized as inherently unreal. > > > > the Silence is real. > > the dreaming is not. > > > > [note: there can be imaginary " Silence " 's in the dreaming.] > > > > eventually the Silence takes on a dynamic quality, > > but initially it serves to simply liberate from the > > bondage of belief in the dreaming process as real. > > > > > > Bill > > > agree with your words..... > > it seem that you make a clear difference between " Silence " > and " dreaming.. " I do > there can only be " Silence " when there is no " dreaming " ....yes let's be careful here... not a simple yes/no... when one is " caught up in " the dreaming... then there is no awareness of Silence. In awareness of Silence the spinning patterns of unfolding continue... but they are not *believed in*... they are simply patterns of unfolding. It is like being in a movie theater and on the one hand being " caught up in " the action of the movie so that one's gut wrenches when the hero gets clobbered versus, on the other hand, being fulling cognizant that one is in a theater seeing images projected on the screen (perhaps because now the house lights are on). So if immersed in Silence there can be someone that comes to the door and asks a question. There can be thereupon a responding to the question. But from an immersion in Silence all that activity, while unfolding in a natural dream-like way, is not *believed in*. It is seen as just unfolding " stuff " ... and not significant in any particular way. When the dream is believed in then there is *drama* and the elements of the dream have particular significances. When the dream process is realized as unfolding from within the vastness of Silence then it is the dream process *as a whole* that is beheld, and the particulars within that process do not stand out as having special significance. > the " silence " that you describe , i think, can't be > imaginary " silence's in the dreaming " ..... correct > " silence " wake up ....from " dreaming " ....to " being " .... > > in " Silence " .....everything is present....here and now yes... and as I see it, there *is* a connection between the unconscious " dreaming " without awareness of Silence, and the unfolding beingness when there is deep awareness of Silence. it is the same basic process of creation, as I see it... in both cases it is consciousness manifesting. but when that manifesting is deeply held in a profound awareness of Silence then the manifesting takes on a very immediate, very *present* quality. It is alive. And it is very conscious. Otherwise, the manifesting is taken for reality itself and is experienced as the sort of unconscious dreaming we have been discussing. Making sense? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > yes.....infinite number of possibilities ....for a working > > mind.... > > > > > > > > the " creation " is without end.....for a working mind..... > > > > > > > > and so the....the " destruction " is without end.....for a > working > > > > mind.... > > > > > > > > what some people seem to follow....is to pretend that they are > > > > involved into the " creations " .....that they feel to " create " > > > > something.....whatever......(including wonderful theories and > > > > concepts.....) > > > > some are even preacing without end.... > > > > some travel around the world ...just like they feel to tell > > > everybody > > > > that they have something (in the mind)....to " create " .... > > > > > > > > ....but all this happen....with ignorance of the " destructive " > > > > side.....all this " creations " are involved also...... > > > > > > > > > > > > as we told yesterday...... > > > > the mind fools around.....as long there is no Silence > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > the Silence gives a " distance " from which the unfolding > > > patternings can be beheld as simply " cloud stuff " ... > > > > > > from the standpoint of Silence the unfolding patternings > > > are recognized as inherently unreal. > > > > > > the Silence is real. > > > the dreaming is not. > > > > > > [note: there can be imaginary " Silence " 's in the dreaming.] > > > > > > eventually the Silence takes on a dynamic quality, > > > but initially it serves to simply liberate from the > > > bondage of belief in the dreaming process as real. > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > agree with your words..... > > > > it seem that you make a clear difference between " Silence " > > and " dreaming.. " > > I do > > > there can only be " Silence " when there is no " dreaming " ....yes > > let's be careful here... not a simple yes/no... > > when one is " caught up in " the dreaming... then there > is no awareness of Silence. - yes > > In awareness of Silence the spinning patterns of > unfolding continue... but they are not *believed in*... > they are simply patterns of unfolding. It is like being > in a movie theater and on the one hand being " caught up in " > the action of the movie so that one's gut wrenches when > the hero gets clobbered versus, on the other hand, being > fulling cognizant that one is in a theater seeing images > projected on the screen (perhaps because now the house > lights are on). - in (awarness of) " Silence " ....life is still breathing....and continue to be there....in whatever actions... sure maybe it's the most " secure " being.....because (awareness of) " Silence " ....let the movements and actions Continue....to flow.....in silence.... whatever could " happen " in (awareness of) " Silence....nobody is realy concerned about......means, there is nobody " who " could catch " negative or positive " situations.... the situations just flow..... > > So if immersed in Silence there can be someone > that comes to the door and asks a question. There can be > thereupon a responding to the question. But from an > immersion in Silence all that activity, while unfolding in > a natural dream-like way, is not *believed in*. It is > seen as just unfolding " stuff " ... and not significant in > any particular way. -yes > > When the dream is believed in then there is *drama* and > the elements of the dream have particular significances. -yes.....when there is *drama*, then there are tendencies rising...again and again....to be protected from this *drama*.... there is consciousness of " someone " " who " need protection .... many inventions to get " secure " life....by an imaginary seperated ego- mind.....lost in illusion > When the dream process is realized as unfolding from > within the vastness of Silence then it is the dream > process *as a whole* that is beheld, and the particulars > within that process do not stand out as having special > significance. -yes > > > the " silence " that you describe , i think, can't be > > imaginary " silence's in the dreaming " ..... > correct > > > " silence " wake up ....from " dreaming " ....to " being " .... > > > > in " Silence " .....everything is present....here and now > > yes... > > and as I see it, there *is* a connection between the unconscious > " dreaming " without awareness of Silence, and the unfolding > beingness when there is deep awareness of Silence. > > it is the same basic process of creation, as I see it... > > in both cases it is consciousness manifesting. -this your described connection.....could be discussed..... many possibilities... maybe " Silence " is " unfolding " ....in a kind of way....that there is more and more.....awareness rising....of " Silence " itself.... until just " Silence " ....Is there is no reason of " unconscious dreaming " because it is unreal.... it just don't realy exist..... until one wake up (there are no others... " who " are there....having to wake up....except oneself) > but when that manifesting is deeply held in a profound awareness > of Silence then the manifesting takes on a very immediate, > very *present* quality. It is alive. And it is very conscious. > > Otherwise, the manifesting is taken for reality itself and > is experienced as the sort of unconscious dreaming we have > been discussing. > > Making sense? -ok...kind of.... > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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