Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous idea. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous idea. > > > > toombaru > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I " behave " quite ridiculously. Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous idea. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I " behave " > quite ridiculously. > > Ana > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. Where in nature can you see courage? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I " behave " > > quite ridiculously. > > > > Ana > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > toombaru In all that is passing over > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 L.E: When the ego-self talks of courage it is just slapping itself on the back and saying congradulations for doing what is foolish, self-destructive, dangerous or against its own self-interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> > wrote: > > > > there is such a thing as dignity of death > > I have seen it, > > to bear the sorrow of losing one's life > > of letting go > > every thought > > every love > > every moment of sun and rain > > every rainbow, every flower > > the darkness the light > > the joy the pain > > > > to give meaning to the last breath: > > I have been here this day > > I have walked this way > > and now I leave, > > do not weep for me for I have lived > > > > courageously. > > > > > > for my parents Louis and Helen > > > > Love, > > Ana > > Ana ,I agree. People's attitudes and even stoic resignation and > acceptance of the inevitable can not only be a thing of dignity, > grace and heroism it can be awe inspiring.....I've lost many friends > to sudden deaths, disease and forces of nature and by men's mindless > war games too. I've lost all of my grandparents, parents, a brother > and sister. My wife's entire immediate family except for one sister > have departed and there were nine on her mothers side that all > succumbed to hideous forms of cancer, all within one and a half year > time frame. She also lost a brother at age 33 to a pancreatic > disorder. Some were brave, some were in fear some were setting the > stage for the grieving that was to come by unbelievable strength, > spiritual fortitude, faith and by consoling those who were to be left > behind!....awesome, worthy and a tribute to the dignity of the human > spirit.... And I've been reading all the posts on rivers flowing into > oceans and how none of it matters. Well it does. And unless someone > is catatonic or inhuman, all that nonsense is just crap. It hurts, > and hurts badly, for those left to linger...no matter how profound > the thoughts. But my posting regarding the dignity of death had > NOTHING to do with any of this. I was speaking about the physical > facts period. Death on a purely factual basis is not pretty, nor > graceful nor full of light....not from my experience. It is not as > physical fact a dignified thing. You speak here of COURAGE....and I > agree people dying can be courageous and dignified...but that does > not make death a dignified situation... I have answered the flower > power poetics about how we are all just rivers going into bigger > waters and dignity doesn't apply with the thought that that kind of > talk cheapens the very thing that is already being faced WITH dignity > but is not itself a thing OF dignity. When I hear that stuff it all > sounds great and rings true..but the speakers or writers by talking > like that are saying that it's just the way it is and no matter if > the fires of hell are being endured by those suffering souls , well > all is well and it just doesn't matter how they face their > deaths....I disagree completely..and that's a cheap and easy thing to > do..to talk that trash as you sit under the apple tree by a cool > stream and contemplate life..but it is a denegration of the great > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you loved your > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a courageous and > dignified manner. But I still say..the thing itself... dying...is not > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. > > the post: > Our bodies break down, sometimes when we're 90, sometimes before we're > even born, but it always happens and there's never any dignity in it. > I don't care if you can walk, see, wipe your own ass. It's always > ugly.Always. You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. > > > not a mention of courage anywhere. But a strong emohasis that the > people live with dignity and that is true in so many cases right up > to the very end and that too is courageous....but suffering death may > be done by the courageous and dignified..ugly death does not bestow > this, this is the power and quality of the person. > peace and understanding from one very human soul > ........bob Please allow me to be a bit picky on this essay " .......but it is a denigration of the great > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you loved your > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a courageous and > dignified manner. But I still say " , -Indeed YOU said it " ..the thing itself... dying...is not > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. " , -It may not be seen by most of us as being " anyone " , but I'm sure the great spirit doesn't discriminate here. " You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. " -Then, do we need to feel ashamed, humiliated, disgraced or dishonoured about/during dying or so? -Anyway, Niz said; " Remember, you are neither born nor will you die " -So there's not much in between worth worrying about in the first place, is there? With love Johan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I " behave " > > quite ridiculously. > > > > Ana > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > toombaru > only humans speak in words that other humans seek to understand human nature is full of stories of courage nature is full of nature and the stories of being human... noOnes sees the balance... I love you Toomie, Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> > > wrote: > > > > > > there is such a thing as dignity of death > > > I have seen it, > > > to bear the sorrow of losing one's life > > > of letting go > > > every thought > > > every love > > > every moment of sun and rain > > > every rainbow, every flower > > > the darkness the light > > > the joy the pain > > > > > > to give meaning to the last breath: > > > I have been here this day > > > I have walked this way > > > and now I leave, > > > do not weep for me for I have lived > > > > > > courageously. > > > > > > > > > for my parents Louis and Helen > > > > > > Love, > > > Ana > > > > Ana ,I agree. People's attitudes and even stoic resignation and > > acceptance of the inevitable can not only be a thing of dignity, > > grace and heroism it can be awe inspiring.....I've lost many > friends > > to sudden deaths, disease and forces of nature and by men's > mindless > > war games too. I've lost all of my grandparents, parents, a > brother > > and sister. My wife's entire immediate family except for one > sister > > have departed and there were nine on her mothers side that all > > succumbed to hideous forms of cancer, all within one and a half > year > > time frame. She also lost a brother at age 33 to a pancreatic > > disorder. Some were brave, some were in fear some were setting the > > stage for the grieving that was to come by unbelievable strength, > > spiritual fortitude, faith and by consoling those who were to be > left > > behind!....awesome, worthy and a tribute to the dignity of the > human > > spirit.... And I've been reading all the posts on rivers flowing > into > > oceans and how none of it matters. Well it does. And unless > someone > > is catatonic or inhuman, all that nonsense is just crap. It hurts, > > and hurts badly, for those left to linger...no matter how profound > > the thoughts. But my posting regarding the dignity of death had > > NOTHING to do with any of this. I was speaking about the physical > > facts period. Death on a purely factual basis is not pretty, nor > > graceful nor full of light....not from my experience. It is not as > > physical fact a dignified thing. You speak here of COURAGE....and > I > > agree people dying can be courageous and dignified...but that does > > not make death a dignified situation... I have answered the > flower > > power poetics about how we are all just rivers going into bigger > > waters and dignity doesn't apply with the thought that that kind > of > > talk cheapens the very thing that is already being faced WITH > dignity > > but is not itself a thing OF dignity. When I hear that stuff it > all > > sounds great and rings true..but the speakers or writers by > talking > > like that are saying that it's just the way it is and no matter if > > the fires of hell are being endured by those suffering souls , > well > > all is well and it just doesn't matter how they face their > > deaths....I disagree completely..and that's a cheap and easy thing > to > > do..to talk that trash as you sit under the apple tree by a cool > > stream and contemplate life..but it is a denegration of the great > > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you loved your > > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a courageous > and > > dignified manner. But I still say..the thing itself... dying...is > not > > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. > > > > the post: > > Our bodies break down, sometimes when we're 90, sometimes before > we're > > even born, but it always happens and there's never any dignity in > it. > > I don't care if you can walk, see, wipe your own ass. It's always > > ugly.Always. You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. > > > > > > not a mention of courage anywhere. But a strong emohasis that the > > people live with dignity and that is true in so many cases right > up > > to the very end and that too is courageous....but suffering death > may > > be done by the courageous and dignified..ugly death does not > bestow > > this, this is the power and quality of the person. > > peace and understanding from one very human soul > > ........bob > > > Please allow me to be a bit picky on this essay > > > " .......but it is a denigration of the great > > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you loved your > > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a courageous > and > > dignified manner. But I still say " , > > > -Indeed YOU said it > > > " ..the thing itself... dying...is > not > > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. " , > > > -It may not be seen by most of us as being " anyone " , but I'm sure > the great spirit doesn't discriminate here. > > > " You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. " > > > -Then, do we need to feel ashamed, humiliated, disgraced or > dishonoured about/during dying or so? > > -Anyway, Niz said; " Remember, you are neither born nor will you die " > > -So there's not much in between worth worrying about in the first > place, is there? > > With love > > Johan picky, picky, picky......do you feel good now? do you 'think' you've contributed anything? I don't give two hoots what Niz said.......he was just another animal made of meat, that walked with dignity and probably faced that disgaceful and undignified thing we call death, with great dignity OF self and FOR Self and Others. Reread the post......i don't understand what you are trying to say nor why you are making the attempt. and don't take this ponderment as a castigation of you or your being..it is not. it is merely a statement of the fact that I don't understand whatever point it is you are trying to make, other than you are just wanting to say something...anything. 'sides.....there's nothing going on between those fallacies of birth and death anyhow right? tell me true between two points(birth and death)that never occur...how the hell can you also have a parameter of nothing?...that's not good sense nor good math...0 (0) 0....[nonexistent birth (life) death]....what does that mean?.....oh I know...Nothing! go figure eh! with an enquiring mind that IS NOT(just like all other things) ..........bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I " behave " > > quite ridiculously. > > > > Ana > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > toombaru courage doesn't imply anything but courage. choice does not imply anything but choice...it(courage) does not attach itself like something connected intentionally to an email as an adjunct, for Christ's sake...it's a state of being. And Being Is..no matter what bullshit you constantly try to float on that river of flowingness of yours.if you need to 'see' something for it to obtain(..Where in nature can you see courage?)....your lot in life is a sorry one sir. and by your very own standards, I can't see who you are talking to as there is no other correct? and why do you want to do such a silly thing anyway..trying to sound profound to yourself? if you play that rub-a-dub-dub thing with a certain portion of your body there is a not so nice name that is used to define the action. and that part of your meat collection being massabged with such lovingness, is not below the belt, it's between your ears. .....bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > there is such a thing as dignity of death > > > > > I have seen it, > > > > > to bear the sorrow of losing one's life > > > > > of letting go > > > > > every thought > > > > > every love > > > > > every moment of sun and rain > > > > > every rainbow, every flower > > > > > the darkness the light > > > > > the joy the pain > > > > > > > > > > to give meaning to the last breath: > > > > > I have been here this day > > > > > I have walked this way > > > > > and now I leave, > > > > > do not weep for me for I have lived > > > > > > > > > > courageously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my parents Louis and Helen > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > Ana ,I agree. People's attitudes and even stoic resignation > and > > > > acceptance of the inevitable can not only be a thing of > dignity, > > > > grace and heroism it can be awe inspiring.....I've lost many > > > friends > > > > to sudden deaths, disease and forces of nature and by men's > > > mindless > > > > war games too. I've lost all of my grandparents, parents, a > > > brother > > > > and sister. My wife's entire immediate family except for one > > > sister > > > > have departed and there were nine on her mothers side that all > > > > succumbed to hideous forms of cancer, all within one and a > half > > > year > > > > time frame. She also lost a brother at age 33 to a pancreatic > > > > disorder. Some were brave, some were in fear some were setting > > the > > > > stage for the grieving that was to come by unbelievable > strength, > > > > spiritual fortitude, faith and by consoling those who were to > be > > > left > > > > behind!....awesome, worthy and a tribute to the dignity of the > > > human > > > > spirit.... And I've been reading all the posts on rivers > flowing > > > into > > > > oceans and how none of it matters. Well it does. And unless > > > someone > > > > is catatonic or inhuman, all that nonsense is just crap. It > > hurts, > > > > and hurts badly, for those left to linger...no matter how > > profound > > > > the thoughts. But my posting regarding the dignity of death > had > > > > NOTHING to do with any of this. I was speaking about the > physical > > > > facts period. Death on a purely factual basis is not pretty, > nor > > > > graceful nor full of light....not from my experience. It is > not > > as > > > > physical fact a dignified thing. You speak here of > COURAGE....and > > > I > > > > agree people dying can be courageous and dignified...but that > > does > > > > not make death a dignified situation... I have answered the > > > flower > > > > power poetics about how we are all just rivers going into > bigger > > > > waters and dignity doesn't apply with the thought that that > kind > > > of > > > > talk cheapens the very thing that is already being faced WITH > > > dignity > > > > but is not itself a thing OF dignity. When I hear that stuff > it > > > all > > > > sounds great and rings true..but the speakers or writers by > > > talking > > > > like that are saying that it's just the way it is and no > matter > > if > > > > the fires of hell are being endured by those suffering souls , > > > well > > > > all is well and it just doesn't matter how they face their > > > > deaths....I disagree completely..and that's a cheap and easy > > thing > > > to > > > > do..to talk that trash as you sit under the apple tree by a > cool > > > > stream and contemplate life..but it is a denegration of the > great > > > > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you loved > your > > > > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a > courageous > > > and > > > > dignified manner. But I still say..the thing itself... > dying...is > > > not > > > > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. > > > > > > > > the post: > > > > Our bodies break down, sometimes when we're 90, sometimes > before > > > we're > > > > even born, but it always happens and there's never any dignity > in > > > it. > > > > I don't care if you can walk, see, wipe your own ass. It's > always > > > > ugly.Always. You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > not a mention of courage anywhere. But a strong emohasis that > the > > > > people live with dignity and that is true in so many cases > right > > > up > > > > to the very end and that too is courageous....but suffering > death > > > may > > > > be done by the courageous and dignified..ugly death does not > > > bestow > > > > this, this is the power and quality of the person. > > > > peace and understanding from one very human soul > > > > ........bob > > > > > > > > > Please allow me to be a bit picky on this essay > > > > > > > > > " .......but it is a denigration of the great > > > > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you loved > your > > > > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a courageous > > > and > > > > dignified manner. But I still say " , > > > > > > > > > -Indeed YOU said it > > > > > > > > > " ..the thing itself... dying...is > > > not > > > > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. " , > > > > > > > > > -It may not be seen by most of us as being " anyone " , but I'm > sure > > > the great spirit doesn't discriminate here. > > > > > > > > > " You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. " > > > > > > > > > -Then, do we need to feel ashamed, humiliated, disgraced or > > > dishonoured about/during dying or so? > > > > > > -Anyway, Niz said; " Remember, you are neither born nor will you > die " > > > > > > -So there's not much in between worth worrying about in the > first > > > place, is there? > > > > > > With love > > > > > > Johan > > > > > > > > picky, picky, picky......do you feel good now? do you 'think' > you've > > contributed anything? I don't give two hoots what Niz > said.......he > > was just another animal made of meat, that walked with dignity and > > probably faced that disgaceful and undignified thing we call > death, > > with great dignity OF self and FOR Self and Others. Reread the > > post......i don't understand what you are trying to say nor why > you > > are making the attempt. and don't take this ponderment as a > > castigation of you or your being..it is not. it is merely a > statement > > of the fact that I don't understand whatever point it is you are > > trying to make, other than you are just wanting to say > > something...anything. 'sides.....there's nothing going on between > > those fallacies of birth and death anyhow right? tell me true > between > > two points(birth and death)that never occur...how the hell can you > > also have a parameter of nothing?...that's not good sense nor good > > math...0 (0) 0....[nonexistent birth (life) death]....what does > that > > mean?.....oh I know...Nothing! go figure eh! > > > > > > with an enquiring mind that IS NOT(just like all other things) > > > > ..........bob > > > > > ...And the Mind of God > split into Two > > to see itself... > > > > > I Love you Robert, > > Ana > and I love you Ana.....and boy do I love God and all Gods delights...sometimes on these lists though I think people are afraid, or ashamed to say that sort of thing.. for fear of some quick response jetted off by some pseudo enlightened intellectual nobadaddy who wants everyone to think they are ingenious and connected to matters of a much higher order of being/nonbeing -ness of some kind or t'other. But I like saying it..so I repeat I love you, and I love God, and I love All and Every. ;-) .....bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > there is such a thing as dignity of death > > > > I have seen it, > > > > to bear the sorrow of losing one's life > > > > of letting go > > > > every thought > > > > every love > > > > every moment of sun and rain > > > > every rainbow, every flower > > > > the darkness the light > > > > the joy the pain > > > > > > > > to give meaning to the last breath: > > > > I have been here this day > > > > I have walked this way > > > > and now I leave, > > > > do not weep for me for I have lived > > > > > > > > courageously. > > > > > > > > > > > > for my parents Louis and Helen > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > Ana > > > > > > Ana ,I agree. People's attitudes and even stoic resignation and > > > acceptance of the inevitable can not only be a thing of dignity, > > > grace and heroism it can be awe inspiring.....I've lost many > > friends > > > to sudden deaths, disease and forces of nature and by men's > > mindless > > > war games too. I've lost all of my grandparents, parents, a > > brother > > > and sister. My wife's entire immediate family except for one > > sister > > > have departed and there were nine on her mothers side that all > > > succumbed to hideous forms of cancer, all within one and a half > > year > > > time frame. She also lost a brother at age 33 to a pancreatic > > > disorder. Some were brave, some were in fear some were setting > the > > > stage for the grieving that was to come by unbelievable strength, > > > spiritual fortitude, faith and by consoling those who were to be > > left > > > behind!....awesome, worthy and a tribute to the dignity of the > > human > > > spirit.... And I've been reading all the posts on rivers flowing > > into > > > oceans and how none of it matters. Well it does. And unless > > someone > > > is catatonic or inhuman, all that nonsense is just crap. It > hurts, > > > and hurts badly, for those left to linger...no matter how > profound > > > the thoughts. But my posting regarding the dignity of death had > > > NOTHING to do with any of this. I was speaking about the physical > > > facts period. Death on a purely factual basis is not pretty, nor > > > graceful nor full of light....not from my experience. It is not > as > > > physical fact a dignified thing. You speak here of COURAGE....and > > I > > > agree people dying can be courageous and dignified...but that > does > > > not make death a dignified situation... I have answered the > > flower > > > power poetics about how we are all just rivers going into bigger > > > waters and dignity doesn't apply with the thought that that kind > > of > > > talk cheapens the very thing that is already being faced WITH > > dignity > > > but is not itself a thing OF dignity. When I hear that stuff it > > all > > > sounds great and rings true..but the speakers or writers by > > talking > > > like that are saying that it's just the way it is and no matter > if > > > the fires of hell are being endured by those suffering souls , > > well > > > all is well and it just doesn't matter how they face their > > > deaths....I disagree completely..and that's a cheap and easy > thing > > to > > > do..to talk that trash as you sit under the apple tree by a cool > > > stream and contemplate life..but it is a denegration of the great > > > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you loved your > > > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a courageous > > and > > > dignified manner. But I still say..the thing itself... dying...is > > not > > > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. > > > > > > the post: > > > Our bodies break down, sometimes when we're 90, sometimes before > > we're > > > even born, but it always happens and there's never any dignity in > > it. > > > I don't care if you can walk, see, wipe your own ass. It's always > > > ugly.Always. You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. > > > > > > > > > not a mention of courage anywhere. But a strong emohasis that the > > > people live with dignity and that is true in so many cases right > > up > > > to the very end and that too is courageous....but suffering death > > may > > > be done by the courageous and dignified..ugly death does not > > bestow > > > this, this is the power and quality of the person. > > > peace and understanding from one very human soul > > > ........bob > > > > > > Please allow me to be a bit picky on this essay > > > > > > " .......but it is a denigration of the great > > > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you loved your > > > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a courageous > > and > > > dignified manner. But I still say " , > > > > > > -Indeed YOU said it > > > > > > " ..the thing itself... dying...is > > not > > > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. " , > > > > > > -It may not be seen by most of us as being " anyone " , but I'm sure > > the great spirit doesn't discriminate here. > > > > > > " You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. " > > > > > > -Then, do we need to feel ashamed, humiliated, disgraced or > > dishonoured about/during dying or so? > > > > -Anyway, Niz said; " Remember, you are neither born nor will you die " > > > > -So there's not much in between worth worrying about in the first > > place, is there? > > > > With love > > > > Johan > > > > picky, picky, picky......do you feel good now? do you 'think' you've > contributed anything? I don't give two hoots what Niz said.......he > was just another animal made of meat, that walked with dignity and > probably faced that disgaceful and undignified thing we call death, > with great dignity OF self and FOR Self and Others. Reread the > post......i don't understand what you are trying to say nor why you > are making the attempt. and don't take this ponderment as a > castigation of you or your being..it is not. it is merely a statement > of the fact that I don't understand whatever point it is you are > trying to make, other than you are just wanting to say > something...anything. 'sides.....there's nothing going on between > those fallacies of birth and death anyhow right? tell me true between > two points(birth and death)that never occur...how the hell can you > also have a parameter of nothing?...that's not good sense nor good > math...0 (0) 0....[nonexistent birth (life) death]....what does that > mean?.....oh I know...Nothing! go figure eh! > > > with an enquiring mind that IS NOT(just like all other things) > > ..........bob Is there anything else that makes you happy other than expressing your unhappiness in this group? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > there is such a thing as dignity of death > > > > > I have seen it, > > > > > to bear the sorrow of losing one's life > > > > > of letting go > > > > > every thought > > > > > every love > > > > > every moment of sun and rain > > > > > every rainbow, every flower > > > > > the darkness the light > > > > > the joy the pain > > > > > > > > > > to give meaning to the last breath: > > > > > I have been here this day > > > > > I have walked this way > > > > > and now I leave, > > > > > do not weep for me for I have lived > > > > > > > > > > courageously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my parents Louis and Helen > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > Ana ,I agree. People's attitudes and even stoic resignation > and > > > > acceptance of the inevitable can not only be a thing of > dignity, > > > > grace and heroism it can be awe inspiring.....I've lost many > > > friends > > > > to sudden deaths, disease and forces of nature and by men's > > > mindless > > > > war games too. I've lost all of my grandparents, parents, a > > > brother > > > > and sister. My wife's entire immediate family except for one > > > sister > > > > have departed and there were nine on her mothers side that all > > > > succumbed to hideous forms of cancer, all within one and a > half > > > year > > > > time frame. She also lost a brother at age 33 to a pancreatic > > > > disorder. Some were brave, some were in fear some were setting > > the > > > > stage for the grieving that was to come by unbelievable > strength, > > > > spiritual fortitude, faith and by consoling those who were to > be > > > left > > > > behind!....awesome, worthy and a tribute to the dignity of the > > > human > > > > spirit.... And I've been reading all the posts on rivers > flowing > > > into > > > > oceans and how none of it matters. Well it does. And unless > > > someone > > > > is catatonic or inhuman, all that nonsense is just crap. It > > hurts, > > > > and hurts badly, for those left to linger...no matter how > > profound > > > > the thoughts. But my posting regarding the dignity of death > had > > > > NOTHING to do with any of this. I was speaking about the > physical > > > > facts period. Death on a purely factual basis is not pretty, > nor > > > > graceful nor full of light....not from my experience. It is > not > > as > > > > physical fact a dignified thing. You speak here of > COURAGE....and > > > I > > > > agree people dying can be courageous and dignified...but that > > does > > > > not make death a dignified situation... I have answered the > > > flower > > > > power poetics about how we are all just rivers going into > bigger > > > > waters and dignity doesn't apply with the thought that that > kind > > > of > > > > talk cheapens the very thing that is already being faced WITH > > > dignity > > > > but is not itself a thing OF dignity. When I hear that stuff > it > > > all > > > > sounds great and rings true..but the speakers or writers by > > > talking > > > > like that are saying that it's just the way it is and no > matter > > if > > > > the fires of hell are being endured by those suffering souls , > > > well > > > > all is well and it just doesn't matter how they face their > > > > deaths....I disagree completely..and that's a cheap and easy > > thing > > > to > > > > do..to talk that trash as you sit under the apple tree by a > cool > > > > stream and contemplate life..but it is a denegration of the > great > > > > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you loved > your > > > > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a > courageous > > > and > > > > dignified manner. But I still say..the thing itself... > dying...is > > > not > > > > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. > > > > > > > > the post: > > > > Our bodies break down, sometimes when we're 90, sometimes > before > > > we're > > > > even born, but it always happens and there's never any dignity > in > > > it. > > > > I don't care if you can walk, see, wipe your own ass. It's > always > > > > ugly.Always. You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > not a mention of courage anywhere. But a strong emohasis that > the > > > > people live with dignity and that is true in so many cases > right > > > up > > > > to the very end and that too is courageous....but suffering > death > > > may > > > > be done by the courageous and dignified..ugly death does not > > > bestow > > > > this, this is the power and quality of the person. > > > > peace and understanding from one very human soul > > > > ........bob > > > > > > > > > Please allow me to be a bit picky on this essay > > > > > > > > > " .......but it is a denigration of the great > > > > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you loved > your > > > > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a courageous > > > and > > > > dignified manner. But I still say " , > > > > > > > > > -Indeed YOU said it > > > > > > > > > " ..the thing itself... dying...is > > > not > > > > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. " , > > > > > > > > > -It may not be seen by most of us as being " anyone " , but I'm > sure > > > the great spirit doesn't discriminate here. > > > > > > > > > " You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. " > > > > > > > > > -Then, do we need to feel ashamed, humiliated, disgraced or > > > dishonoured about/during dying or so? > > > > > > -Anyway, Niz said; " Remember, you are neither born nor will you > die " > > > > > > -So there's not much in between worth worrying about in the > first > > > place, is there? > > > > > > With love > > > > > > Johan > > > > > > > > picky, picky, picky......do you feel good now? do you 'think' > you've > > contributed anything? I don't give two hoots what Niz > said.......he > > was just another animal made of meat, that walked with dignity and > > probably faced that disgaceful and undignified thing we call > death, > > with great dignity OF self and FOR Self and Others. Reread the > > post......i don't understand what you are trying to say nor why > you > > are making the attempt. and don't take this ponderment as a > > castigation of you or your being..it is not. it is merely a > statement > > of the fact that I don't understand whatever point it is you are > > trying to make, other than you are just wanting to say > > something...anything. 'sides.....there's nothing going on between > > those fallacies of birth and death anyhow right? tell me true > between > > two points(birth and death)that never occur...how the hell can you > > also have a parameter of nothing?...that's not good sense nor good > > math...0 (0) 0....[nonexistent birth (life) death]....what does > that > > mean?.....oh I know...Nothing! go figure eh! > > > > > > with an enquiring mind that IS NOT(just like all other things) > > > > ..........bob > > > Is there anything else that makes you happy other than expressing > your unhappiness in this group? you make me happy....everyone here makes me happy........where in the above do you read or understand that I say I am unhappy? I said I was confused by what you had posted....and indeed I am happy that I can say that and that you can respond and that hopefully we can understand each one to the other. mayhaps that is not possible, but we can try. if you have read many at all of my posts...your accusatorial statement about my state of being, being one of unhappiness..again, I am discombobulated. I am the joker for crying out loud....I try and get a few jocularities or cut-up capers posted every day. I am disappointed that you see things the way you do..but there is little I can do regarding that. " I yam what I yam " ...Popeye ;-) bob...(in Olive Oil I guess) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I " behave " > > quite ridiculously. > > > > Ana > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. This statement is false. It *can* so imply to a given person (as toombaru), but there is no necessity in that. So to say it so implies is a statement about the speaker, not a statement about the nature of courage. Bill > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > there is such a thing as dignity of death > > > > > > I have seen it, > > > > > > to bear the sorrow of losing one's life > > > > > > of letting go > > > > > > every thought > > > > > > every love > > > > > > every moment of sun and rain > > > > > > every rainbow, every flower > > > > > > the darkness the light > > > > > > the joy the pain > > > > > > > > > > > > to give meaning to the last breath: > > > > > > I have been here this day > > > > > > I have walked this way > > > > > > and now I leave, > > > > > > do not weep for me for I have lived > > > > > > > > > > > > courageously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my parents Louis and Helen > > > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > Ana ,I agree. People's attitudes and even stoic resignation > > and > > > > > acceptance of the inevitable can not only be a thing of > > dignity, > > > > > grace and heroism it can be awe inspiring.....I've lost many > > > > friends > > > > > to sudden deaths, disease and forces of nature and by men's > > > > mindless > > > > > war games too. I've lost all of my grandparents, parents, a > > > > brother > > > > > and sister. My wife's entire immediate family except for one > > > > sister > > > > > have departed and there were nine on her mothers side that > all > > > > > succumbed to hideous forms of cancer, all within one and a > > half > > > > year > > > > > time frame. She also lost a brother at age 33 to a pancreatic > > > > > disorder. Some were brave, some were in fear some were > setting > > > the > > > > > stage for the grieving that was to come by unbelievable > > strength, > > > > > spiritual fortitude, faith and by consoling those who were to > > be > > > > left > > > > > behind!....awesome, worthy and a tribute to the dignity of > the > > > > human > > > > > spirit.... And I've been reading all the posts on rivers > > flowing > > > > into > > > > > oceans and how none of it matters. Well it does. And unless > > > > someone > > > > > is catatonic or inhuman, all that nonsense is just crap. It > > > hurts, > > > > > and hurts badly, for those left to linger...no matter how > > > profound > > > > > the thoughts. But my posting regarding the dignity of death > > had > > > > > NOTHING to do with any of this. I was speaking about the > > physical > > > > > facts period. Death on a purely factual basis is not pretty, > > nor > > > > > graceful nor full of light....not from my experience. It is > > not > > > as > > > > > physical fact a dignified thing. You speak here of > > COURAGE....and > > > > I > > > > > agree people dying can be courageous and dignified...but that > > > does > > > > > not make death a dignified situation... I have answered the > > > > flower > > > > > power poetics about how we are all just rivers going into > > bigger > > > > > waters and dignity doesn't apply with the thought that that > > kind > > > > of > > > > > talk cheapens the very thing that is already being faced WITH > > > > dignity > > > > > but is not itself a thing OF dignity. When I hear that stuff > > it > > > > all > > > > > sounds great and rings true..but the speakers or writers by > > > > talking > > > > > like that are saying that it's just the way it is and no > > matter > > > if > > > > > the fires of hell are being endured by those suffering > souls , > > > > well > > > > > all is well and it just doesn't matter how they face their > > > > > deaths....I disagree completely..and that's a cheap and easy > > > thing > > > > to > > > > > do..to talk that trash as you sit under the apple tree by a > > cool > > > > > stream and contemplate life..but it is a denegration of the > > great > > > > > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you loved > > your > > > > > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a > > courageous > > > > and > > > > > dignified manner. But I still say..the thing itself... > > dying...is > > > > not > > > > > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. > > > > > > > > > > the post: > > > > > Our bodies break down, sometimes when we're 90, sometimes > > before > > > > we're > > > > > even born, but it always happens and there's never any > dignity > > in > > > > it. > > > > > I don't care if you can walk, see, wipe your own ass. It's > > always > > > > > ugly.Always. You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not a mention of courage anywhere. But a strong emohasis that > > the > > > > > people live with dignity and that is true in so many cases > > right > > > > up > > > > > to the very end and that too is courageous....but suffering > > death > > > > may > > > > > be done by the courageous and dignified..ugly death does not > > > > bestow > > > > > this, this is the power and quality of the person. > > > > > peace and understanding from one very human soul > > > > > ........bob > > > > > > > > > > > > Please allow me to be a bit picky on this essay > > > > > > > > > > > > " .......but it is a denigration of the great > > > > > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you loved > > your > > > > > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a > courageous > > > > and > > > > > dignified manner. But I still say " , > > > > > > > > > > > > -Indeed YOU said it > > > > > > > > > > > > " ..the thing itself... dying...is > > > > not > > > > > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. " , > > > > > > > > > > > > -It may not be seen by most of us as being " anyone " , but I'm > > sure > > > > the great spirit doesn't discriminate here. > > > > > > > > > > > > " You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. " > > > > > > > > > > > > -Then, do we need to feel ashamed, humiliated, disgraced or > > > > dishonoured about/during dying or so? > > > > > > > > -Anyway, Niz said; " Remember, you are neither born nor will you > > die " > > > > > > > > -So there's not much in between worth worrying about in the > > first > > > > place, is there? > > > > > > > > With love > > > > > > > > Johan > > > > > > > > > > > > picky, picky, picky......do you feel good now? do you 'think' > > you've > > > contributed anything? I don't give two hoots what Niz > > said.......he > > > was just another animal made of meat, that walked with dignity > and > > > probably faced that disgaceful and undignified thing we call > > death, > > > with great dignity OF self and FOR Self and Others. Reread the > > > post......i don't understand what you are trying to say nor why > > you > > > are making the attempt. and don't take this ponderment as a > > > castigation of you or your being..it is not. it is merely a > > statement > > > of the fact that I don't understand whatever point it is you are > > > trying to make, other than you are just wanting to say > > > something...anything. 'sides.....there's nothing going on between > > > those fallacies of birth and death anyhow right? tell me true > > between > > > two points(birth and death)that never occur...how the hell can > you > > > also have a parameter of nothing?...that's not good sense nor > good > > > math...0 (0) 0....[nonexistent birth (life) death]....what does > > that > > > mean?.....oh I know...Nothing! go figure eh! > > > > > > > > > with an enquiring mind that IS NOT(just like all other things) > > > > > > ..........bob > > > > > > Is there anything else that makes you happy other than expressing > > your unhappiness in this group? > > > > you make me happy....everyone here makes me happy........where in the > above do you read or understand that I say I am unhappy? I said I was > confused by what you had posted....and indeed I am happy that I can > say that and that you can respond and that hopefully we can > understand each one to the other. mayhaps that is not possible, but > we can try. if you have read many at all of my posts...your > accusatorial statement about my state of being, being one of > unhappiness..again, I am discombobulated. I am the joker for crying > out loud....I try and get a few jocularities or cut-up capers posted > every day. I am disappointed that you see things the way you do..but > there is little I can do regarding that. " I yam what I yam " ...Popeye > > ;-) > > bob...(in Olive Oil I guess) Because we have reference ideas, it is impossible for us to tell which is better, you or me, but we can tell that the differences between them are troubled indeed. There seems to be a subtle, random difference between the two I components, which, due to it's very low level, is hard to determine the origin of. The grey cells of the brain components are certainly different, especially via the keyboard. Again, the differences are at such a low level that they are practically trivial. Hommage a Popey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " > <anabebe57@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is such a thing as dignity of death > > > > > > > I have seen it, > > > > > > > to bear the sorrow of losing one's life > > > > > > > of letting go > > > > > > > every thought > > > > > > > every love > > > > > > > every moment of sun and rain > > > > > > > every rainbow, every flower > > > > > > > the darkness the light > > > > > > > the joy the pain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to give meaning to the last breath: > > > > > > > I have been here this day > > > > > > > I have walked this way > > > > > > > and now I leave, > > > > > > > do not weep for me for I have lived > > > > > > > > > > > > > > courageously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my parents Louis and Helen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana ,I agree. People's attitudes and even stoic > resignation > > > and > > > > > > acceptance of the inevitable can not only be a thing of > > > dignity, > > > > > > grace and heroism it can be awe inspiring.....I've lost > many > > > > > friends > > > > > > to sudden deaths, disease and forces of nature and by > men's > > > > > mindless > > > > > > war games too. I've lost all of my grandparents, parents, > a > > > > > brother > > > > > > and sister. My wife's entire immediate family except for > one > > > > > sister > > > > > > have departed and there were nine on her mothers side that > > all > > > > > > succumbed to hideous forms of cancer, all within one and a > > > half > > > > > year > > > > > > time frame. She also lost a brother at age 33 to a > pancreatic > > > > > > disorder. Some were brave, some were in fear some were > > setting > > > > the > > > > > > stage for the grieving that was to come by unbelievable > > > strength, > > > > > > spiritual fortitude, faith and by consoling those who were > to > > > be > > > > > left > > > > > > behind!....awesome, worthy and a tribute to the dignity of > > the > > > > > human > > > > > > spirit.... And I've been reading all the posts on rivers > > > flowing > > > > > into > > > > > > oceans and how none of it matters. Well it does. And > unless > > > > > someone > > > > > > is catatonic or inhuman, all that nonsense is just crap. > It > > > > hurts, > > > > > > and hurts badly, for those left to linger...no matter how > > > > profound > > > > > > the thoughts. But my posting regarding the dignity of > death > > > had > > > > > > NOTHING to do with any of this. I was speaking about the > > > physical > > > > > > facts period. Death on a purely factual basis is not > pretty, > > > nor > > > > > > graceful nor full of light....not from my experience. It > is > > > not > > > > as > > > > > > physical fact a dignified thing. You speak here of > > > COURAGE....and > > > > > I > > > > > > agree people dying can be courageous and dignified...but > that > > > > does > > > > > > not make death a dignified situation... I have answered > the > > > > > flower > > > > > > power poetics about how we are all just rivers going into > > > bigger > > > > > > waters and dignity doesn't apply with the thought that > that > > > kind > > > > > of > > > > > > talk cheapens the very thing that is already being faced > WITH > > > > > dignity > > > > > > but is not itself a thing OF dignity. When I hear that > stuff > > > it > > > > > all > > > > > > sounds great and rings true..but the speakers or writers > by > > > > > talking > > > > > > like that are saying that it's just the way it is and no > > > matter > > > > if > > > > > > the fires of hell are being endured by those suffering > > souls , > > > > > well > > > > > > all is well and it just doesn't matter how they face their > > > > > > deaths....I disagree completely..and that's a cheap and > easy > > > > thing > > > > > to > > > > > > do..to talk that trash as you sit under the apple tree by > a > > > cool > > > > > > stream and contemplate life..but it is a denegration of > the > > > great > > > > > > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you > loved > > > your > > > > > > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a > > > courageous > > > > > and > > > > > > dignified manner. But I still say..the thing itself... > > > dying...is > > > > > not > > > > > > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > the post: > > > > > > Our bodies break down, sometimes when we're 90, sometimes > > > before > > > > > we're > > > > > > even born, but it always happens and there's never any > > dignity > > > in > > > > > it. > > > > > > I don't care if you can walk, see, wipe your own ass. It's > > > always > > > > > > ugly.Always. You can live with dignity, we can't die with > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not a mention of courage anywhere. But a strong emohasis > that > > > the > > > > > > people live with dignity and that is true in so many cases > > > right > > > > > up > > > > > > to the very end and that too is courageous....but > suffering > > > death > > > > > may > > > > > > be done by the courageous and dignified..ugly death does > not > > > > > bestow > > > > > > this, this is the power and quality of the person. > > > > > > peace and understanding from one very human soul > > > > > > ........bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please allow me to be a bit picky on this essay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " .......but it is a denigration of the great > > > > > > spirit and soul of man and mankind, period. I see you > loved > > > your > > > > > > parents dearly and I'm sure they lived and died in a > > courageous > > > > > and > > > > > > dignified manner. But I still say " , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Indeed YOU said it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " ..the thing itself... dying...is > > > > > not > > > > > > and cannot truthfully be seen as a dignity to anyone. " , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -It may not be seen by most of us as being " anyone " , but I'm > > > sure > > > > > the great spirit doesn't discriminate here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " You can live with dignity, we can't die with it. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Then, do we need to feel ashamed, humiliated, disgraced or > > > > > dishonoured about/during dying or so? > > > > > > > > > > -Anyway, Niz said; " Remember, you are neither born nor will > you > > > die " > > > > > > > > > > -So there's not much in between worth worrying about in the > > > first > > > > > place, is there? > > > > > > > > > > With love > > > > > > > > > > Johan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > picky, picky, picky......do you feel good now? do you 'think' > > > you've > > > > contributed anything? I don't give two hoots what Niz > > > said.......he > > > > was just another animal made of meat, that walked with dignity > > and > > > > probably faced that disgaceful and undignified thing we call > > > death, > > > > with great dignity OF self and FOR Self and Others. Reread the > > > > post......i don't understand what you are trying to say nor > why > > > you > > > > are making the attempt. and don't take this ponderment as a > > > > castigation of you or your being..it is not. it is merely a > > > statement > > > > of the fact that I don't understand whatever point it is you > are > > > > trying to make, other than you are just wanting to say > > > > something...anything. 'sides.....there's nothing going on > between > > > > those fallacies of birth and death anyhow right? tell me true > > > between > > > > two points(birth and death)that never occur...how the hell can > > you > > > > also have a parameter of nothing?...that's not good sense nor > > good > > > > math...0 (0) 0....[nonexistent birth (life) death]....what > does > > > that > > > > mean?.....oh I know...Nothing! go figure eh! > > > > > > > > > > > > with an enquiring mind that IS NOT(just like all other > things) > > > > > > > > ..........bob > > > > > > > > > Is there anything else that makes you happy other than > expressing > > > your unhappiness in this group? > > > > > > > > you make me happy....everyone here makes me happy........where in > the > > above do you read or understand that I say I am unhappy? I said I > was > > confused by what you had posted....and indeed I am happy that I > can > > say that and that you can respond and that hopefully we can > > understand each one to the other. mayhaps that is not possible, > but > > we can try. if you have read many at all of my posts...your > > accusatorial statement about my state of being, being one of > > unhappiness..again, I am discombobulated. I am the joker for > crying > > out loud....I try and get a few jocularities or cut-up capers > posted > > every day. I am disappointed that you see things the way you > do..but > > there is little I can do regarding that. " I yam what I > yam " ...Popeye > > > > ;-) > > > > bob...(in Olive Oil I guess) > > > Because we have reference ideas, it is impossible for us to tell > which is better, you or me, but we can tell that the differences > between them are troubled indeed. There seems to be a subtle, random > difference between the two I components, which, due to it's very low > level, is hard to determine the origin of. The grey cells of the > brain components are certainly different, especially via the > keyboard. Again, the differences are at such a low level that they > are practically trivial. > > Hommage a Popey Well said Johan.......peace and understanding. All else is, just as you say...trivial and of no consequence.....there are differences of thought, feelings, interprettions and lots more too, between folks...it would be so wonderful if we all could just use all those as steps on the ladder of understanding and faith. And here's to the hope, that that is exactly what has happened here between us. in deference to, and with esteem for, yourself, ...bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I " behave " > > > quite ridiculously. > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > This statement is false. > > It *can* so imply to a given person (as toombaru), > but there is no necessity in that. > > So to say it so implies is a statement about the speaker, > not a statement about the nature of courage. > > Bill > > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Tell me of the nature of courage. toombaru (Keep in mind........if it cannot be measured......the mind of man made it up.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I > " behave " > > > > quite ridiculously. > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > > > This statement is false. > > > > It *can* so imply to a given person (as toombaru), > > but there is no necessity in that. > > > > So to say it so implies is a statement about the speaker, > > not a statement about the nature of courage. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Tell me of the nature of courage. vulnerability > > > toombaru > > > > (Keep in mind........if it cannot be measured......the mind of man > made it up.) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I > " behave " > > > > quite ridiculously. > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > > > This statement is false. > > > > It *can* so imply to a given person (as toombaru), > > but there is no necessity in that. > > > > So to say it so implies is a statement about the speaker, > > not a statement about the nature of courage. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Tell me of the nature of courage. > > > toombaru > > > > (Keep in mind........if it cannot be measured......the mind of man > made it up.) (Remember............A witty saying proves nothing.....the mind of man makes it up.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous > idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I > > " behave " > > > > > quite ridiculously. > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > > > > > This statement is false. > > > > > > It *can* so imply to a given person (as toombaru), > > > but there is no necessity in that. > > > > > > So to say it so implies is a statement about the speaker, > > > not a statement about the nature of courage. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me of the nature of courage. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > (Keep in mind........if it cannot be measured......the mind of man > > made it up.) > > > (Remember............A witty saying proves nothing.....the mind of > man makes it up.) > Tell me what courage is. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I > > " behave " > > > > > quite ridiculously. > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > > > > > This statement is false. > > > > > > It *can* so imply to a given person (as toombaru), > > > but there is no necessity in that. > > > > > > So to say it so implies is a statement about the speaker, > > > not a statement about the nature of courage. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me of the nature of courage. > > vulnerability > Tell me the nature of vulnerability. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I > > > " behave " > > > > > > quite ridiculously. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > > > > > > > This statement is false. > > > > > > > > It *can* so imply to a given person (as toombaru), > > > > but there is no necessity in that. > > > > > > > > So to say it so implies is a statement about the speaker, > > > > not a statement about the nature of courage. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me of the nature of courage. > > > > vulnerability > > > > > > > Tell me the nature of vulnerability. > > > > > toombaru > if you don't know I can't tell you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous > > idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I > > > " behave " > > > > > > quite ridiculously. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > > > > > > > This statement is false. > > > > > > > > It *can* so imply to a given person (as toombaru), > > > > but there is no necessity in that. > > > > > > > > So to say it so implies is a statement about the speaker, > > > > not a statement about the nature of courage. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me of the nature of courage. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > (Keep in mind........if it cannot be measured......the mind of man > > > made it up.) > > > > > > (Remember............A witty saying proves nothing.....the mind of > > man makes it up.) > > > > > > > Tell me what courage is. > > > toombaru If you don't know...all the 'telling' in the world or beyond would be wasted and a waste of time.....oh yeah..time is not. .....bob (but you never can tell) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous > idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though sometimes I > > > > " behave " > > > > > > > quite ridiculously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > > > > > > > > > This statement is false. > > > > > > > > > > It *can* so imply to a given person (as toombaru), > > > > > but there is no necessity in that. > > > > > > > > > > So to say it so implies is a statement about the speaker, > > > > > not a statement about the nature of courage. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me of the nature of courage. > > > > > > vulnerability > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me the nature of vulnerability. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > if you don't know > I can't tell you > The reason that you can't is because there is no such thing. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " > <anabebe57@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous > > > idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though > sometimes I > > > > " behave " > > > > > > > quite ridiculously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > > > > > > > > > This statement is false. > > > > > > > > > > It *can* so imply to a given person (as toombaru), > > > > > but there is no necessity in that. > > > > > > > > > > So to say it so implies is a statement about the speaker, > > > > > not a statement about the nature of courage. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me of the nature of courage. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Keep in mind........if it cannot be measured......the mind of > man > > > > made it up.) > > > > > > > > > (Remember............A witty saying proves nothing.....the mind > of > > > man makes it up.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me what courage is. > > > > > > toombaru > > > If you don't know...all the 'telling' in the world or beyond would be > wasted and a waste of time.....oh yeah..time is not. > > > .....bob (but you never can tell) > You tell me that a thing exists.......and then you tell me that it cannot be talked about. Perhaps you could tell me about the creature to whom the concept of 'courage' could apply. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <illusyn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " > > <anabebe57@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Courage " as applied to 'behavior'......is a ridiculous > > > > idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the courage to " be " is not so ridiculous, though > > sometimes I > > > > > " behave " > > > > > > > > quite ridiculously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Courage' implies a choice to be....or not be courageous. > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement is false. > > > > > > > > > > > > It *can* so imply to a given person (as toombaru), > > > > > > but there is no necessity in that. > > > > > > > > > > > > So to say it so implies is a statement about the speaker, > > > > > > not a statement about the nature of courage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where in nature can you see courage? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me of the nature of courage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Keep in mind........if it cannot be measured......the mind of > > man > > > > > made it up.) > > > > > > > > > > > > (Remember............A witty saying proves nothing.....the mind > > of > > > > man makes it up.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me what courage is. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > If you don't know...all the 'telling' in the world or beyond would be > > wasted and a waste of time.....oh yeah..time is not. > > > > > > .....bob (but you never can tell) > > > > > > > You tell me that a thing exists.......and then you tell me that it > cannot be talked about. ROFLMAO....if this isn't calling the kettle black....nothing is hehehehe!!!!!!!!1 > Perhaps you could tell me about the creature to whom the concept of > 'courage' could apply. Real creatures in a Real world, and not silly phantom monkeys that do tricks around imaginary rivers of flowingness and all that shit schtick stuff..that's what kind of creatures..and for all your non- argument, argumentative statements, about the only people who don't quarrel over religion are the people who don't have any, which is saying toom....well you know what it says..no matter who your trying to fool. Get yer haggis! Right here. Chopped heart and lungs, boiled in a wee sheep's stomach. Tastes as good as it sounds. " ---Groundskeeper Willie > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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