Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Grab hold of negative reactions and feelings, neither to turn them into a positive pole nor to bury them, but rather to experience the non dual joy that is at the core of these and all things. - Gangaji ~~~~ beautiful it is not the thing it is never the thing it is the Silence the Emptiness in which is appearance the appearance is never *about* the appearance that's the trick the appearance is about the Emptiness in which it appears Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Grab hold of negative reactions and feelings, neither > to turn them into a positive pole nor to bury them, > but rather to experience the non dual joy that is at > the core of these and all things. - Gangaji > ~~~~ > > beautiful > > it is not the thing > it is never the thing > > it is the Silence > the Emptiness > in which is appearance > > the appearance is never > *about* the appearance > > that's the trick > > the appearance is about > the Emptiness > in which it appears > > > Bill > Seems true:-) And if we try to figure out why or how, we lose touch with the emptiness. Its interesting that if I experience myself but avoid thinking, I feel myself in a more expansive free state. But if I experience others and avoid thinking, I expand even more:-) Maybe the doorway to truth only opens for us by way of others:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > Grab hold of negative reactions and feelings, neither > > to turn them into a positive pole nor to bury them, > > but rather to experience the non dual joy that is at > > the core of these and all things. - Gangaji > > ~~~~ > > > > beautiful > > > > it is not the thing > > it is never the thing > > > > it is the Silence > > the Emptiness > > in which is appearance > > > > the appearance is never > > *about* the appearance > > > > that's the trick > > > > the appearance is about > > the Emptiness > > in which it appears > > > > > > Bill > > > > Seems true:-) > And if we try to figure out why or how, we lose touch with the > emptiness. > Its interesting that if I experience myself but avoid thinking, I feel > myself in a more expansive free state. But if I experience others and > avoid thinking, I expand even more:-) > > Maybe the doorway to truth only opens for us by way of others:-) > Many, of course, will scoff at that as being inherently " not nondual " because *others* means not-one. But the way you have put it here shows that " others " doesn't have to mean that at all. It takes vulnerability to open to others, and there is no more powerful breaking of the self-isolating boundary of ego identity than in such vulnerability. If all is One then that includes " others " ... and the ability to be inclusive of others in a moment-by-moment way (i.e. experientially, not as some thought construct) is how " dissolving into the One " must actually occur. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > > > Grab hold of negative reactions and feelings, neither > > > to turn them into a positive pole nor to bury them, > > > but rather to experience the non dual joy that is at > > > the core of these and all things. - Gangaji > > > ~~~~ > > > > > > beautiful > > > > > > it is not the thing > > > it is never the thing > > > > > > it is the Silence > > > the Emptiness > > > in which is appearance > > > > > > the appearance is never > > > *about* the appearance > > > > > > that's the trick > > > > > > the appearance is about > > > the Emptiness > > > in which it appears > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Seems true:-) > > And if we try to figure out why or how, we lose touch with the > > emptiness. > > Its interesting that if I experience myself but avoid thinking, I feel > > myself in a more expansive free state. But if I experience others and > > avoid thinking, I expand even more:-) > > > > Maybe the doorway to truth only opens for us by way of others:-) > > > > Many, of course, will scoff at that as being inherently > " not nondual " because *others* means not-one. But the way > you have put it here shows that " others " doesn't have to > mean that at all. It takes vulnerability to open to others, > and there is no more powerful breaking of the self-isolating > boundary of ego identity than in such vulnerability. > > If all is One then that includes " others " ... and the ability > to be inclusive of others in a moment-by-moment way (i.e. > experientially, not as some thought construct) is how > " dissolving into the One " must actually occur. > > Bill For me, knowing truth has nothing to do with anything objective. It's not knowing a fact that exists out there, and it is not about an other in any way, shape or form. At the same time, it is not about me, my subjectivity, or my identity in any way shape or form. I, me, and you, it, mutually co-arise. Truth, and I'm using the word not to mean a truth, or the truth that is opposed to falsehoods, but truth as *this* which isn't opposed, isn't separated, doesn't have existing identities of beings or things within it -- this truth is simply what is when everything that can fall apart, falls apart. And others fall apart, as does self. Labels like " consciousness, " " awareness, " or " god " only go so far. They don't convey fully what is, because they depend on having an opposite, and they depend on having a knower who knows what those words mean, and the associations of experiences and feelings with those words. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > > > Grab hold of negative reactions and feelings, neither > > > to turn them into a positive pole nor to bury them, > > > but rather to experience the non dual joy that is at > > > the core of these and all things. - Gangaji > > > ~~~~ > > > > > > beautiful > > > > > > it is not the thing > > > it is never the thing > > > > > > it is the Silence > > > the Emptiness > > > in which is appearance > > > > > > the appearance is never > > > *about* the appearance > > > > > > that's the trick > > > > > > the appearance is about > > > the Emptiness > > > in which it appears > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Seems true:-) > > And if we try to figure out why or how, we lose touch with the > > emptiness. > > Its interesting that if I experience myself but avoid thinking, I feel > > myself in a more expansive free state. But if I experience others and > > avoid thinking, I expand even more:-) > > > > Maybe the doorway to truth only opens for us by way of others:-) > > > > Many, of course, will scoff at that as being inherently > " not nondual " because *others* means not-one. But the way > you have put it here shows that " others " doesn't have to > mean that at all. It takes vulnerability to open to others, > and there is no more powerful breaking of the self-isolating > boundary of ego identity than in such vulnerability. > > If all is One then that includes " others " ... and the ability > to be inclusive of others in a moment-by-moment way (i.e. > experientially, not as some thought construct) is how > " dissolving into the One " must actually occur. > > Bill > Yes, and the big word here is " experientially " , without thoughts, words, or symbols:-) Now if only I could do that consistently! LOL Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Grab hold of negative reactions and feelings, neither > > > > to turn them into a positive pole nor to bury them, > > > > but rather to experience the non dual joy that is at > > > > the core of these and all things. - Gangaji > > > > ~~~~ > > > > > > > > beautiful > > > > > > > > it is not the thing > > > > it is never the thing > > > > > > > > it is the Silence > > > > the Emptiness > > > > in which is appearance > > > > > > > > the appearance is never > > > > *about* the appearance > > > > > > > > that's the trick > > > > > > > > the appearance is about > > > > the Emptiness > > > > in which it appears > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Seems true:-) > > > And if we try to figure out why or how, we lose touch with the > > > emptiness. > > > Its interesting that if I experience myself but avoid thinking, I feel > > > myself in a more expansive free state. But if I experience others and > > > avoid thinking, I expand even more:-) > > > > > > Maybe the doorway to truth only opens for us by way of others:-) > > > > > > > Many, of course, will scoff at that as being inherently > > " not nondual " because *others* means not-one. But the way > > you have put it here shows that " others " doesn't have to > > mean that at all. It takes vulnerability to open to others, > > and there is no more powerful breaking of the self-isolating > > boundary of ego identity than in such vulnerability. > > > > If all is One then that includes " others " ... and the ability > > to be inclusive of others in a moment-by-moment way (i.e. > > experientially, not as some thought construct) is how > > " dissolving into the One " must actually occur. > > > > Bill > > > > Yes, and the big word here is " experientially " , without thoughts, > words, or symbols:-) > Now if only I could do that consistently! LOL > > Stu > what is more powerful than vulnerability? and it is a well that never runs dry whatever the challenge, be it what presents via " another " , self-doubt, fear... vulnerability is the enzyme that breaks it down for in vulnerability the sanctity of one's borders is given up Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 <snip> > > > > > > Maybe the doorway to truth only opens for us by way of others:-) > > > > > > > Many, of course, will scoff at that as being inherently > > " not nondual " because *others* means not-one. But the way > > you have put it here shows that " others " doesn't have to > > mean that at all. It takes vulnerability to open to others, > > and there is no more powerful breaking of the self-isolating > > boundary of ego identity than in such vulnerability. > > > > If all is One then that includes " others " ... and the ability > > to be inclusive of others in a moment-by-moment way (i.e. > > experientially, not as some thought construct) is how > > " dissolving into the One " must actually occur. > > > > Bill > > For me, knowing truth has nothing to do with anything objective. > > It's not knowing a fact that exists out there, and it is not about an > other in any way, shape or form. > > At the same time, it is not about me, my subjectivity, or my identity > in any way shape or form. > > I, me, and you, it, mutually co-arise. > > Truth, and I'm using the word not to mean a truth, or the truth that > is opposed to falsehoods, but truth as *this* which isn't opposed, > isn't separated, doesn't have existing identities of beings or things > within it -- this truth is simply what is when everything that can > fall apart, falls apart. > > And others fall apart, as does self. > > Labels like " consciousness, " " awareness, " or " god " only go so far. > They don't convey fully what is, because they depend on having an > opposite, and they depend on having a knower who knows what those > words mean, and the associations of experiences and feelings with > those words. > > -- Dan The moment is ever presenting a challenge. Sometimes that challenge can appear in the form of " another " , but there are many other ways. The challenge is an apparent tension, a challenge to stretch and open more, for yet another little bit of baggage to be discarded as irrelevant. In as much as we are human beings, the challenge presented by " another " is often the most formidible, most potent form of challenge. It takes a great and open heart to not be daunted by the many challenges presented by the " others " in one's life. And it is the " others " in one's life that truly test the extent of one's vulnerability. For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears in the form of " others " . And if, eventually, those " others " no longer really seem to be *other*, if the depth of the other and one's own depth are the same, if the love in the other and one's own love are the same, if the spirit in the other and one's own spirit are the same... then perhaps the veil of separation has been dropped... But until then, there is so much learning, so much growing to be found in opening to the challenge presented by " another " . Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Grab hold of negative reactions and feelings, neither > > > > to turn them into a positive pole nor to bury them, > > > > but rather to experience the non dual joy that is at > > > > the core of these and all things. - Gangaji > > > > ~~~~ > > > > > > > > beautiful > > > > > > > > it is not the thing > > > > it is never the thing > > > > > > > > it is the Silence > > > > the Emptiness > > > > in which is appearance > > > > > > > > the appearance is never > > > > *about* the appearance > > > > > > > > that's the trick > > > > > > > > the appearance is about > > > > the Emptiness > > > > in which it appears > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Seems true:-) > > > And if we try to figure out why or how, we lose touch with the > > > emptiness. > > > Its interesting that if I experience myself but avoid thinking, I feel > > > myself in a more expansive free state. But if I experience others and > > > avoid thinking, I expand even more:-) > > > > > > Maybe the doorway to truth only opens for us by way of others:-) > > > > > > > Many, of course, will scoff at that as being inherently > > " not nondual " because *others* means not-one. But the way > > you have put it here shows that " others " doesn't have to > > mean that at all. It takes vulnerability to open to others, > > and there is no more powerful breaking of the self-isolating > > boundary of ego identity than in such vulnerability. > > > > If all is One then that includes " others " ... and the ability > > to be inclusive of others in a moment-by-moment way (i.e. > > experientially, not as some thought construct) is how > > " dissolving into the One " must actually occur. > > > > Bill > > > > Yes, and the big word here is " experientially " , without thoughts, > words, or symbols:-) > Now if only I could do that consistently! LOL ** You don't have to do anything. In fact, you can't. It's all already done, right now, without 'time.' In a word...immediacy. But it was missed because in taking that construction '...if only I could do that...' for real. Ken > > Stu ** > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > Maybe the doorway to truth only opens for us by way of others:-) > > > > > > > > > > Many, of course, will scoff at that as being inherently > > > " not nondual " because *others* means not-one. But the way > > > you have put it here shows that " others " doesn't have to > > > mean that at all. It takes vulnerability to open to others, > > > and there is no more powerful breaking of the self-isolating > > > boundary of ego identity than in such vulnerability. > > > > > > If all is One then that includes " others " ... and the ability > > > to be inclusive of others in a moment-by-moment way (i.e. > > > experientially, not as some thought construct) is how > > > " dissolving into the One " must actually occur. > > > > > > Bill > > > > For me, knowing truth has nothing to do with anything objective. > > > > It's not knowing a fact that exists out there, and it is not about > an > > other in any way, shape or form. > > > > At the same time, it is not about me, my subjectivity, or my > identity > > in any way shape or form. > > > > I, me, and you, it, mutually co-arise. > > > > Truth, and I'm using the word not to mean a truth, or the truth that > > is opposed to falsehoods, but truth as *this* which isn't opposed, > > isn't separated, doesn't have existing identities of beings or > things > > within it -- this truth is simply what is when everything that can > > fall apart, falls apart. > > > > And others fall apart, as does self. > > > > Labels like " consciousness, " " awareness, " or " god " only go so far. > > They don't convey fully what is, because they depend on having an > > opposite, and they depend on having a knower who knows what those > > words mean, and the associations of experiences and feelings with > > those words. > > > > -- Dan > > The moment is ever presenting a challenge. > Sometimes that challenge can appear in the > form of " another " , but there are many other > ways. > > The challenge is an apparent tension, a challenge > to stretch and open more, for yet another little > bit of baggage to be discarded as irrelevant. > > In as much as we are human beings, the challenge > presented by " another " is often the most formidible, > most potent form of challenge. It takes a great > and open heart to not be daunted by the many > challenges presented by the " others " in one's life. > And it is the " others " in one's life that truly > test the extent of one's vulnerability. > > For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears > in the form of " others " . > > And if, eventually, those " others " no longer really > seem to be *other*, if the depth of the other and > one's own depth are the same, if the love in the other > and one's own love are the same, if the spirit in the > other and one's own spirit are the same... then > perhaps the veil of separation has been dropped... > > But until then, there is so much learning, so > much growing to be found in opening to the challenge > presented by " another " . > > > Bill sweet words!...Thank You Bill ..........bob ........... " an " other " bob For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears in the form " others " . No Truer Words Have Been Spoken and your welcome as well :-) () Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Grab hold of negative reactions and feelings, neither > > > > > to turn them into a positive pole nor to bury them, > > > > > but rather to experience the non dual joy that is at > > > > > the core of these and all things. - Gangaji > > > > > ~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > beautiful > > > > > > > > > > it is not the thing > > > > > it is never the thing > > > > > > > > > > it is the Silence > > > > > the Emptiness > > > > > in which is appearance > > > > > > > > > > the appearance is never > > > > > *about* the appearance > > > > > > > > > > that's the trick > > > > > > > > > > the appearance is about > > > > > the Emptiness > > > > > in which it appears > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems true:-) > > > > And if we try to figure out why or how, we lose touch with the > > > > emptiness. > > > > Its interesting that if I experience myself but avoid thinking, > I feel > > > > myself in a more expansive free state. But if I experience > others and > > > > avoid thinking, I expand even more:-) > > > > > > > > Maybe the doorway to truth only opens for us by way of others:-) > > > > > > > > > > Many, of course, will scoff at that as being inherently > > > " not nondual " because *others* means not-one. But the way > > > you have put it here shows that " others " doesn't have to > > > mean that at all. It takes vulnerability to open to others, > > > and there is no more powerful breaking of the self-isolating > > > boundary of ego identity than in such vulnerability. > > > > > > If all is One then that includes " others " ... and the ability > > > to be inclusive of others in a moment-by-moment way (i.e. > > > experientially, not as some thought construct) is how > > > " dissolving into the One " must actually occur. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Yes, and the big word here is " experientially " , without thoughts, > > words, or symbols:-) > > > Now if only I could do that consistently! LOL > > ** You don't have to do anything. In fact, you can't. > It's all already done, right now, without 'time.' > > In a word...immediacy. But it was missed because in taking > that construction '...if only I could do that...' for real. > > Ken > nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears > in the form of " others " . > > And if, eventually, those " others " no longer really > seem to be *other*, if the depth of the other and > one's own depth are the same, if the love in the other > and one's own love are the same, if the spirit in the > other and one's own spirit are the same... then > perhaps the veil of separation has been dropped... > > But until then, there is so much learning, so > much growing to be found in opening to the challenge > presented by " another " . > > > Bill " Hell is other people, " Jean Paul Sartre Yes, the challenge is what hits you in the face, even as one side-steps. It can't be avoided. Advaita talk being used to avoid the challenge of this as is, including the otherness, is devoid of heart. I am the world. I am self and other. This is embraced from before beginning. And only as this is so, is it true that no self nor other ever existed. It is here, in the midst of our relating, emoting, and day to day experiencing - the stillness, the contactless true-being. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears > > in the form of " others " . > > > > And if, eventually, those " others " no longer really > > seem to be *other*, if the depth of the other and > > one's own depth are the same, if the love in the other > > and one's own love are the same, if the spirit in the > > other and one's own spirit are the same... then > > perhaps the veil of separation has been dropped... > > > > But until then, there is so much learning, so > > much growing to be found in opening to the challenge > > presented by " another " . > > > > > > Bill > > " Hell is other people, " Jean Paul Sartre > > Yes, the challenge is what hits you in the face, even as one side- steps. > > It can't be avoided. > > Advaita talk being used to avoid the challenge of this as is, > including the otherness, is devoid of heart. > > I am the world. I am self and other. > > This is embraced from before beginning. > > And only as this is so, is it true that no self nor other ever existed. > > It is here, in the midst of our relating, emoting, and day to day > experiencing - the stillness, the contactless true-being. > > -- Dan .......and Gehenna is not eternity but everywhere and now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.